Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Sign in to follow this  
CurBeatElite

leonard and walker

Recommended Posts

Not sure if this has been posted on here yet:

 

 

Pretty impressive stat for Walker (3rd year) and Leonard (2nd year) -- they were the first LB Duo in NFL history to each have 120+ tackles, 2.5+ sacks, 6+ TFL, and 1+ interception.  

 

I think with Okerere in this mix (and potentially EJ Speed), we've got a pretty solid LB corps for years to come.  Let's just hope these guys stay healthy.

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

K'lavon Chaisson looks pretty to me, maybe we can add him on.

 

I liked him too from what I saw in the CFP.  He's projected as a mid-late first rounder.  

 

To be honest,  I'd be a bit disappointed if we went LB at pick 13.  If he fell to one of our 2nd round picks, that'd be too good to pass up.

 

However, with Leonard, Walker and Okerere I'd say LB is our strongest position (right there with OL assuming AC comes back).  

 

We have definite needs at DL and WR.  We likely have need at TE (assuming Ebron's gone).  We are likely to address QB in draft or FA.  We could use some secondary help.

 

Typically, I like the BPA strategy, but right now I think outside of OL (assuming AC returns), LB, RB, and P I think we have glaring concerns at every other position.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leonard is a stud...but Walker is not.  So if he is getting a "bag," I hope he gets it from somewhere else. Walker is solid against the run...but still struggles in pass coverage. His PFF grades match the eye test.

 

I just don't see Walker as a foundational piece...and the Colts can't pay everyone. So my hope is that Okereke can take the starting role because his pass coverage is much better. But he is going to need to improve his run defense to do that.  

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Walker played less snaps then Leonard while Leonard still missed three games. He had almost the same amount of tackles as Leonard despite less snaps. I don’t get how Walker is so undervalued by fans. Him and Leonard really compliment each other on the field. Walker is also another coach off the field. He breaks down game film and gives the other linebackers notes before every game. I won’t be shocked if he gets extended before the next season starts. He won’t break the bank.  Linebacker is probably last on our list of needs.

 

Agreed on LB being last on our list of needs.  Only other position you could argue (assuming AC comes back) is OL.

 

We have some glaring needs to improve across the board otherwise.  The nicest thing would be if EJ Speed develops and Okerere continues improving, we'd have 3 guys (Speed, Leonard, Okerere) who could play any LB position.  Walker could be kind of a rotational guy for certain instances.  He's great against the run, he's a leader.  He leaves room for improvement in the passing game, but he's a guy that would start on most teams in the league and he's only going to get better as the defense around him improves.

 

2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

Leonard is a stud...but Walker is not.  So if he is getting a "bag," I hope he gets it from somewhere else. Walker is solid against the run...but still struggles in pass coverage. His PFF grades match the eye test.

 

I just don't see Walker as a foundational piece...and the Colts can't pay everyone. So my hope is that Okereke can take the starting role because his pass coverage is much better. But he is going to need to improve his run defense to do that.  

 

 

 

Walker is a very good player.  He's very good against the run and average against the pass.  Ideally, see above... we have very versatile guys in Leonard and Okerere.  If Speed develops, we should be able to rotate a nice set of LBs in and out for all occasions.  

 

There are a lot worse starting LBs in the league than Walker.  I hope we keep him around.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Walker played less snaps then Leonard while Leonard still missed three games. He had almost the same amount of tackles as Leonard despite less snaps. I don’t get how Walker is so undervalued by fans. Him and Leonard really compliment each other on the field. Walker is also another coach off the field. He breaks down game film and gives the other linebackers notes before every game. I won’t be shocked if he gets extended before the next season starts. He won’t break the bank.  Linebacker is probably last on our list of needs.

 

It’s not a need...but they also don’t need to pay Walker long-term...especially this offseason.
 

Leonard is a star...he would compliment anyone. And Okereke has flashed enough to see if he can be that guy.

 

You say people undervalue Walker...but then say he won’t break the bank. If he as undervalued as you claim...then he won’t be cheap. I would gladly keep him if that were the case...but I bet he will want at least $10M/year...given what other ILB contracts have looked like. 
 

I get it...people love Walker. But IMO...he’s a solid-good run defender who has limitations in pass coverage...someone that could be improved upon...and not worth a big second contract. We will see what Ballard does.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Agreed on LB being last on our list of needs.  Only other position you could argue (assuming AC comes back) is OL.

 

We have some glaring needs to improve across the board otherwise.  The nicest thing would be if EJ Speed develops and Okerere continues improving, we'd have 3 guys (Speed, Leonard, Okerere) who could play any LB position.  Walker could be kind of a rotational guy for certain instances.  He's great against the run, he's a leader.  He leaves room for improvement in the passing game, but he's a guy that would start on most teams in the league and he's only going to get better as the defense around him improves.

 

 

Walker is a very good player.  He's very good against the run and average against the pass.  Ideally, see above... we have very versatile guys in Leonard and Okerere.  If Speed develops, we should be able to rotate a nice set of LBs in and out for all occasions.  

 

There are a lot worse starting LBs in the league than Walker.  I hope we keep him around.


There are also several better LBs in the league as well. I don’t think he’s a bad player (though not a very good one either)...but the question isn’t would you keep him on the roster...it’s whether he’s worth a “bag”...as Leonard says. I guess we won’t know unless they give it to him. IMO...I would wait until next offseason to see what Okereke can do in a bigger role.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Thunderbolt said:

K'lavon Chaisson looks pretty to me, maybe we can add him on.

That’s the problem with you people! you want to draft players based on there appearance, instead of their talents! Being pretty doesn’t win ball games people! haha

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i always liked Walker, PFF had him rated as one of the worst MLB in the league for most of the season though if i remember correctly, maybe someone can clarify this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Nesjan3 said:

i always liked Walker, PFF had him rated as one of the worst MLB in the league for most of the season though if i remember correctly, maybe someone can clarify this.


He was in the 50s most of the season. I think at one point early on...he was one of lowest graded...due to missed tackles and pass coverage.

 

He had a huge game against Will Grier and CAR (1 sack and 1 INT)...in that dominant Colts win...and it bumped him up to the 60s.

 

I am in the minority on him apparently...and that’s fine. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, shastamasta said:


He was in the 50s most of the season. I think at one point early on...he was one of lowest graded...due to missed tackles and pass coverage.

 

He had a huge game against Will Grier and CAR (1 sack and 1 INT)...in that dominant Colts win...and it bumped him up to the 60s.

 

I am in the minority on him apparently...and that’s fine. 

 

 

My apologies i'm not much of a PFF guru, but i mean to get into it soon. I have read how they come up with their grades and it seems to be an accurate assessment. Is 50s-60s good? Bad ? Average?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Nesjan3 said:

My apologies i'm not much of a PFF guru, but i mean to get into it soon. I have read how they come up with their grades and it seems to be an accurate assessment. Is 50s-60s good? Bad ? Average?

 

I would assume 50s is pretty low...relative to other players...but not really sure exactly how low. Definitely below average.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the offensive line and running backs are our most solid positions. We're OK at linebacker, but I wouldn't be opposed to finding someone in free agency in the middle and use Walker to back up all three spots.

They complement each other on the field, not compliment - unless they are actually handing out compliments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2020 at 11:04 PM, shastamasta said:

 

It’s not a need...but they also don’t need to pay Walker long-term...especially this offseason.
 

Leonard is a star...he would compliment anyone. And Okereke has flashed enough to see if he can be that guy.

 

You say people undervalue Walker...but then say he won’t break the bank. If he as undervalued as you claim...then he won’t be cheap. I would gladly keep him if that were the case...but I bet he will want at least $10M/year...given what other ILB contracts have looked like. 
 

I get it...people love Walker. But IMO...he’s a solid-good run defender who has limitations in pass coverage...someone that could be improved upon...and not worth a big second contract. We will see what Ballard does.

 

 

 

 

A recurring theme around here for me is how we all see the same thing differently...

 

So you write that your get it, that people here love Walker.  Which I find interesting...  because it’s my view that from reading the boards here, more than half the posters don’t like Walker and would be happy if we let him walk.

 

Same player.   Two different viewpoints.   I see that a lot here.  Not saying I’m right and you’re wrong.  Just saying we see it differently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2020 at 2:11 PM, shastamasta said:


He was in the 50s most of the season. I think at one point early on...he was one of lowest graded...due to missed tackles and pass coverage.

 

He had a huge game against Will Grier and CAR (1 sack and 1 INT)...in that dominant Colts win...and it bumped him up to the 60s.

 

I am in the minority on him apparently...and that’s fine. 

Keep in mind early on that Leonard was out 3 games, and Walker moved over to WILL. So not only did he play 3 games out of position, he also played 100%ish of snaps and passing downs (which he does not normally do). When he's playing MIKE, and on downs he typically plays, our scheme doesn't put much on him from a coverage perspective.

 

You always need to take PFF grades with a grain of salt as they really don't take scheme variance into account, and LBs especially are hard to grade outside of Ts. They rated Devin Bush really low for most of the year, especially when they were dealing with injury and played him on downs they normally wouldn't. He ended up low 60s IIRC as things settled down towards late season.

 

On 1/19/2020 at 2:04 AM, shastamasta said:

It’s not a need...but they also don’t need to pay Walker long-term...especially this offseason.
 

Leonard is a star...he would compliment anyone. And Okereke has flashed enough to see if he can be that guy.

 

You say people undervalue Walker...but then say he won’t break the bank. If he as undervalued as you claim...then he won’t be cheap. I would gladly keep him if that were the case...but I bet he will want at least $10M/year...given what other ILB contracts have looked like. 
 

I get it...people love Walker. But IMO...he’s a solid-good run defender who has limitations in pass coverage...someone that could be improved upon...and not worth a big second contract. We will see what Ballard does.

ILB is one of the more devalued positions in both the draft and FA, so he's not going to get a "pile" of money regardless... especially being only a 2 down LBer. But honestly that's not really a bad thing (him being a 2 down LBer).  A lot of teams do the same thing (use a rotation).

 

Purely my opinion, but I think the situation is good for us. We don't use SAM a lot, so having a SAM (Oke) that can also play passing downs at MIKE, while having a good run stopping 2 down MIKE like Walker, is efficient and effective use of $ of personnel. 

 

Since we moved Oke to SAM, it likely means Franklin (did't play a single snap on D) will not be back. That means either they give Speed a shot at MIKE depth, or look to FA or the draft (later rounds). Walker will never be great at coverage, just like Oke will likely never be great in the middle vs the run. They can be effective in a rotation though. In short though, LB is literally the last on my list of needs this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This either tells me that they are making a lot plays or people are getting to our next level with ease.  The way our DLine played this year, it's probably the latter.  

 

I'm proud of these guys.  Once we get our Dline straight, we'll see them elevate to another level.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/25/2020 at 7:50 PM, EastStreet said:

 LB is literally the last on my list of needs this year. 

I feel the same.  The Colts should not take a LB in the draft before WR, QB, OL, DL, TE or CB.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Myles said:

I feel the same.  The Colts should not take a LB in the draft before WR, QB, OL, DL, TE or CB.

I don't mind a very late LB pick, or a FA pick up. I think they will likely grab someone, somehow/somewhere for MIKE depth now that Oke has taken over SAM (Franklin likely gone). If not, that means they probably have some confidence in Speed stepping up this year.

 

Speaking of Speed, I was a little surprised that Ballard commented that he saw Speed as a MLB. Not that I don't think he can develop into a MIKE, but his frame and measurements are closer to Leonard than a typical MLB. Being that Speed is only a few years away from his conversion from WR, gotta think he's still very raw. Regardless, hard for me to see him not being more of a WILL or SAM than MIKE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/18/2020 at 1:53 PM, shastamasta said:

Leonard is a stud...but Walker is not.  So if he is getting a "bag," I hope he gets it from somewhere else. Walker is solid against the run...but still struggles in pass coverage. His PFF grades match the eye test.

 

I just don't see Walker as a foundational piece...and the Colts can't pay everyone. So my hope is that Okereke can take the starting role because his pass coverage is much better. But he is going to need to improve his run defense to do that.  

 

 

Yes, Okereke looked like our best linebacker for parts of the season. Our LB's are solid. Just need a stud corner, start Khari Willis, and two pass rushers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, bestQBever said:

Yes, Okereke looked like our best linebacker for parts of the season. Our LB's are solid. Just need a stud corner, start Khari Willis, and two pass rushers.

Improve the pass rush, and it's a lot easier on everyone in coverage. 

 

I doubt they move Oke away from starting SAM, and you really don't want him playing in the middle on early downs. Willis is great in the box, but got exploited vs the pass (allowed 27 catches on 31 targets). Guessing you'll see him get the majority of snaps vs run heavy teams and early downs, and less vs pass happy teams and later downs.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

(allowed 27 catches on 31 targets)

PFR has him at 31 catches on 37 targets.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dogg63 said:

PFR has him at 31 catches on 37 targets.

I was using PFF

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/khari-willis/51304

 

Neither are good, but the delta is interesting. PFF must have attributed the extra 4 catches and 6 targets to someone else. Bottom line, not great vs the pass. I assume given the film, opponents will test him more next year in the passing game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • With our o line we need run more so a OT/ G needed too be in top 5 and have defenses huffing n puffing then hitting TE/WR that should be wide open !
    • Ron Mix is a good call. He was great no doubt. I forgot about him  
    • True I like Moe He needs more playing time. 
    • Yes the Colts have been grooming him for 3 years. 
    • I completely understand why QBs get the most glory because of the position and are considered the team leader. I just think the QB gets the glory by the greatness of the players around him.  Super bowls are more of a team accomplishments. IMO.  Players like Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Jim Brown spent their careers on teams that were not very good. The 85 Bears were a defensive juggernaut but won without great QB play. We also tend to look at players we remember seeing and are familiar with.  One of the greatest players I can recall playing was Tony Gonzalez but a TE is overlooked in the conversation.  Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Dick Butkus and Joe Green were just as good of a player than any QB ever was.    Then there was offensive lineman Ron Mix. He was so good he only drew 2 holding penalties in his 10 year HOF career. Just think about that for a minute. There are players who have 2 penalties called in 1 game. That is a mind blowing stat IMO.  Just food for thought.     
  • Members

    • Hark

      Hark 216

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Fluke_33

      Fluke_33 1,176

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • GoColts8818

      GoColts8818 9,598

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • NFLfan

      NFLfan 8,584

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • ColtMan

      ColtMan 1

      Rookie
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Davvon2590

      Davvon2590 3

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • 2006Coltsbestever

      2006Coltsbestever 25,546

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • Clem-Dog

      Clem-Dog 395

      Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • BSteph1

      BSteph1 9

      New Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
    • dw49

      dw49 3,130

      Senior Member
      Joined:
      Last active:
×
×
  • Create New...