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Herbert vs Love vs Gordon

Herbert vs Love vs Gordon  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Herbert vs Love vs Gordon

    • Take Herbert at 13
      7
    • Take Love at 13
      15
    • Take Gordon at 34 and take a “War Daddy” DT with the 13th pick
      17


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So these are my top 3 QBs going into the Senior bowl, combine and pro days. All 3 will be at the Senior bowl so we will get more. My question is what would you want. 
 

Herbert at 13

OR

Love at 13 

OR

Gordon at 34 with 13th pick being on a playmaker WR or “war daddy” DT

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It’s really hard to say because the only DT that seems worthy of a top 13 pick would be Brown. Kinlaw sounds pretty good as well but he has more ceiling to get reach where Brown is there now to plug and start, from everything I’ve seen posted about him. So, if it were between Kinlaw and Love or Hebert, I’d think I’d seriously have to strongly consider the best fit for the Colts at 13 of those two. Hope Kinlaw falls to 34 or even look at Gallimore. I’m just not sure what the drop off in play/potential for the three top DT’s.  I just know we definitely have to have a DT to make this defense work right. Without an above average to a superior DT, it’s almost pointless to keep wasting assets on the D side imho. Yes, we also must have better play from the QB spot in whatever way we go there but if it’s not there, look at next year. 

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1 hour ago, WarGhost21 said:

I pick option D: Eason at 34 and Jerry Juedy or CeeDee Lamb at 13

I won’t be surprised if Tampa decides to move on from Winston and they take Eason. That big arm fits Arians offense really well. There are also teams like the pats and saints who might want to take a QB.

 

The more I think about it when ballard says not to reach on a QB he means don’t take one your not in love with. I could even see him taking a QB earlier then needed if he is sold on him.

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3 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

I pick option D: Eason at 34 and Jerry Juedy or CeeDee Lamb at 13


Yep, let’s go back to the Polian era and get a WR :) in a deep WR class.

 

At least Polian got Freeney the last time he picked before 15.

 

 

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I would've thought Gordon would be available later than our 2nd pick. I'd pick a beast DT and WR with the first two picks then hopefully get someone like Gordon with the 3rd.

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52 minutes ago, ScotColt said:

I would've thought Gordon would be available later than our 2nd pick. I'd pick a beast DT and WR with the first two picks then hopefully get someone like Gordon with the 3rd.

Exactly. I think he will be there in the 3rd round. DT in the 1st and take WR and OT in rd.2.

 

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Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

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13 minutes ago, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

 

Some might consider gunning for a QB with 20 TD's and 17 INT's at college level weird as well. 

 

I'm not gonna pretend I have seen Love play much but I would be worried to pull the trigger on him with the 13th pick when clearly we have quite a few needs and this draft has proven studs at those positions. I keep reading on here that Love has amazing athletic ability as well but again I look at the stats and he has a 2.2 rush average over 81 attempts. I know stats don't exactly tell the whole story but I think you need better than that to be picked at 13.  

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24 minutes ago, ScotColt said:

 

Some might consider gunning for a QB with 20 TD's and 17 INT's at college level weird as well. 

 

 

Yeah, a lot of people who haven't watched Love and rely on the most surface level stats would find it weird. 

 

Quote

I'm not gonna pretend I have seen Love play much but I would be worried to pull the trigger on him with the 13th pick when clearly we have quite a few needs and this draft has proven studs at those positions. I keep reading on here that Love has amazing athletic ability as well but again I look at the stats and he has a 2.2 rush average over 81 attempts. I know stats don't exactly tell the whole story but I think you need better than that to be picked at 13.  

Yeah, because we all know that rush average for QBs is what really shows whether you are athletic and whether you are worth the no. 13 pick. Love doesn't show his athleticism in rush attempts(he's not Wilson and he's not Lamar Jackson), when he escapes the pocket he escapes it to create throwing windows, not to run. He's more Mahomes(2.2 rush average in his last season in college) in his style than those running QBs. 

 

Look, Love is my personal favorite. Take this for whatever it's worth(not much), my point has nothing to do with Love. I've said multiple times that I would be OK with whoever Ballard decides to draft at 13 or even if he decides to trade up(Herbert, Tua, Love, Eason) ... whoever he likes best, I will be good with it... hell even if I'm completely wrong about where Love deserves to be taken and he waits until the end of the first to trade up for him, I'd be OK with it. My point is that it's weird that people are willing to fool around with the most important position in football and the position we are literally in the biggest need of upgrading in favor of DT or WR. I cannot understand that. 

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6 hours ago, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

It's weird until we take a walk down memory lane.... to when we had arguably the best, and without question the smartest QB in NFL history in Peyton Manning.... but lacked a credible inside force at DT for pretty much his entire career. 

 

And none of the QBs likely to be available at #13 bear anything close to a resemblance to Manning when it comes to pre-snap reads, progressions, and an ability to manipulate coverage.

 

In all those playoff games vs statuesque QBs like Brady and Rivers, they seldom had to deal with ANY pressure up the middle from us. How many times did we watch Manning agonizing on the sidelines because, even with Freeney and Mathis...we simply could not get our defense off the field?

 

I'm not discounting the necessity for us to address and improve the QB position.... all I'm saying is let's not overvalue a QB prospect over the possibility of drafting a dominant, penetrating DT.

 

DT is a position with HUGE impact, and we played the "bargain basement" game at that position for almost the entirety of Bill Polian's reign.... and with costly results come playoff time. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

I will agree. I have been on record about sticking with JB for one more season but have started to come around on drafting a QB and, like Ballard, have several that I like. 

 

Where we might disagree is the bargain bin QB/7th best. We don’t really know where they will all grade out. Right now, I would agree, most boards are

Burrow

Tua

Herbert

Love

Eason

Fromm

Gordon

Hurts

 

But we will also know way more after next week, Senior bowl. All of this boards favorites minus Eason will be there. 
 

Also contrary to belief I do actually really like Love. I made a point to watch his bowl game from beginning to end and came away highly impressed. But I will also admit I had never heard of him until word leaked that Ballard had, reportedly, gin to see him in person. What scares me the most about him, outside of decision making, is everyone saying he is the next Mahomes. There is no next Mahomes. I am scared that Ballard really likes him and may be forced to take him at 13 because that comparison will push him up the draft boards. 
 

Finally, what has shocked me the most is that everyone is either picking Gordon or Love and no one is licking Herbert. Just curious, why?

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11 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I will agree. I have been on record about sticking with JB for one more season but have started to come around on drafting a QB and, like Ballard, have several that I like. 

 

Where we might disagree is the bargain bin QB/7th best. We don’t really know where they will all grade out. Right now, I would agree, most boards are

Burrow

Tua

Herbert

Love

Eason

Fromm

Gordon

Hurts

 

But we will also know way more after next week, Senior bowl. All of this boards favorites minus Eason will be there. 
 

 

That's fair... we still don't know where all of them will end up, but it's highly likely players like Gordon/Hurst/Fromm go somewhere in the 3d round or later. For whatever it's worth, I've been going over some of Gordon's tape and there are things to like with him. I think I would prefer him over Fromm and Hurst for example, but I have to watch a bit more of him before I come out with more concrete/serious ranking among the others. 

 

Quote

 

Also contrary to belief I do actually really like Love. I made a point to watch his bowl game from beginning to end and came away highly impressed. But I will also admit I had never heard of him until word leaked that Ballard had, reportedly, gin to see him in person. What scares me the most about him, outside of decision making, is everyone saying he is the next Mahomes. There is no next Mahomes. I am scared that Ballard really likes him and may be forced to take him at 13 because that comparison will push him up the draft boards. 

 

 

Just for the record, when I make prospect comparisons to pros, and especially to all-pros, I mean those comparisons to be stylistic comparisons, rather than expectations of similar excellence. When I say Love looks like Mahomes, I don't mean "Love will have similar success as Mahomes". I mean, he plays in similar way, he has similar strengths and weaknesses, but there is no way to know if those will amount to the same level of production. There are just so many more things that go into how the player turns out to be in the league - his own determination and willingness to work on his craft and excel, his coaches and how he's developed, his surrounding talent, injuries... luck... There is just no way in hell to say with any amount of certainty that any player in the draft will become as good as what seems like a future HOFer in Mahomes. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't... maybe he settles somewhere below him... maybe he surpasses Mahomes. The point is that IMO he has the traits and physical talent to be something similar play-style wise. The rest will be up to him and his coaches in the league.

 

 

Quote

Finally, what has shocked me the most is that everyone is either picking Gordon or Love and no one is licking Herbert. Just curious, why?

I love Herbert. I think he is similarly high level prospect like Love and maybe even a bit safer than Love. I would love it if we draft him and even if Ballard prefers him over my personal favorite, I'd be ecstatic if we got him. There are small things I prefer in Love to what Herbert has shown, but IMO both can be very good in the league. 

 

About why others don't like Herbert, I would let them answer for themselves. 

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12 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

Just for the record, when I make prospect comparisons to pros, and especially to all-pros, I mean those comparisons to be stylistic comparisons, rather than expectations of similar excellence. When I say Love looks like Mahomes, I don't mean "Love will have similar success as Mahomes". I mean, he plays in similar way, he has similar strengths and weaknesses, but there is no way to know if those will amount to the same level of production. There are just so many more things that go into how the player turns out to be in the league - his own determination and willingness to work on his craft and excel, his coaches and how he's developed, his surrounding talent, injuries... luck... There is just no way in hell to say with any amount of certainty that any player in the draft will become as good as what seems like a future HOFer in Mahomes. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't... maybe he settles somewhere below him... maybe he surpasses Mahomes. The point is that IMO he has the traits and physical talent to be something similar play-style wise. The rest will be up to him and his coaches in the league.

 Completely understand your point here. My contention is not with you, but as soon as people hear he is like Mahomes, odds are their next thought is that he will be the next Mahomes. 

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8 hours ago, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

 

  Your 7th may be someone else's 4th best QB that could turn out to be as good as anyone other than Burrow. It shouldn't be hard to understand.
 Ballard explained his idea about grading players and to not over draft because of need. Your favorite QB, that by my readings he is a 2nd rd, even for some a 3rd guy, isn't someone to get excited about just yet. 
 And speculating on a message board pre-Senior Bowl, pre-combine, pre-individual workouts is really just for fun.  
   What i find weird is posters here that know best with so little information.

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29 minutes ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

  Your 7th may be someone else's 4th best QB that could turn out to be as good as anyone other than Burrow. It shouldn't be hard to understand.
 Ballard explained his idea about grading players and to not over draft because of need. Your favorite QB, that by my readings he is a 2nd rd, even for some a 3rd guy, isn't someone to get excited about just yet. 
 And speculating on a message board pre-Senior Bowl, pre-combine, pre-individual workouts is really just for fun.  
   What i find weird is posters here that know best with so little information.

That's fair... but this is NOT my point. The point is that I have my own favorite, but I am NOT advocating for drafting him specifically(I understand reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements about players and I will be happy with multiple different QBs drafted by Ballard even if they are not my favorite).

 

My point is... whoever is your favorite QB in this draft, your position shouldn't be - oh well, doesn't matter if we miss on him, as long as we can get a DT in R1 and WR in R2... 

 

And if your QB of choise is not worth a 1st or early 2nd pick, I kind of feel like he's probably not good enough anyways. To me, most R3+ QBs are just wild shots without much pressure for him to pan out. This is the type of shot you should be taking once you already have your franchise QB in the building, not relying on him to be your franchise QB of the future. That's why I think I would prefer Ballard not draft a QB at all if he doesn't like a QB early or if the QB he likes gets taken before our pick. 

 

I guess my ultimate point is - if a QB you like is there in the first and you think he's worth that pick, you don't horse around with it. You take him. Ahead of a DT, ahead of a WR, ahead of any other position player.

 

And about speculations and discussions on this forum - yes, even after the combines and workouts, most of it is still just for fun. At least for me... for fun and for connecting and engaging with other fans of the team. 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

 

My point is... whoever is your favorite QB in this draft, your position shouldn't be - oh well, doesn't matter if we miss on him, as long as we can get a DT in R1 and WR in R2... 

 

And if your QB of choise is not worth a 1st or early 2nd pick, I kind of feel like he's probably not good enough anyways. To me, most R3+ QBs are just wild shots without much pressure for him to pan out. This is the type of shot you should be taking once you already have your franchise QB in the building, not relying on him to be your franchise QB of the future. That's why I think I would prefer Ballard not draft a QB at all if he doesn't like a QB early or if the QB he likes gets taken before our pick. 

 

I guess my ultimate point is - if a QB you like is there in the first and you think he's worth that pick, you don't horse around with it. You take him. Ahead of a DT, ahead of a WR, ahead of any other position player.

 

I agree with most of this.  We all have our favorites.  I have come to settle into my top 3:

Herbert, Love and Gordon

 

The thing for these guys is that they vary so differently in regards to draft position. 

 

With Herbert, he would have to fall to you at 13.  If he is there, I would take him because he won't be at 34. 

 

With Love, I am in the same boat except a little muddier.  I don't know if he will be there at 34, but he could be. 

 

With Gordon, I am pretty sure he will be.  I have been on the boat with him that you take him at 34, your first pick of the second round.

 

It is all fun and we will see what happens in the next 3 months. In the end it is where Ballard has them ranked on his board and who is available at 13.  If he has Herbert as his QB, he will take him at 13 if he is there, same for Love.

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It seems Herbert will be gone by 13 while few mocks have Love going that high.  

 

With the way it's shaping up, my guess is Ballard waits until the 2nd to see what happens, or trades back into the first.  That said, it's a long way to the draft.

 

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I wish I was but I’m not all in on any one QB in this draft.

 

I think Love has the tools and a high ceiling. I can’t help but think his career will essentially go one of two ways though, really good or, well, not good at all. With Herbert, I think his floor higher and that he could fit pretty well in Reich’s scheme, could hit those short/intermediate passes consistently. But I also think his ceiling is lower. I won’t be surprised if he never really figures out the deep game.

 

I like Gordon, he’s kind of the wild card. The further he would drop in the draft, the more I’d like him.

 

Really though, I have no idea what I want and I’m gonna defer to Ballard.

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38 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

I wish I was but I’m not all in on any one QB in this draft.

 

I think Love has the tools and a high ceiling. I can’t help but think his career will essentially go one of two ways though, really good or, well, not good at all. With Herbert, I think his floor higher and that he could fit pretty well in Reich’s scheme, could hit those short/intermediate passes consistently. But I also think his ceiling is lower. I won’t be surprised if he never really figures out the deep game.

 

I like Gordon, he’s kind of the wild card. The further he would drop in the draft, the more I’d like him.

 

Really though, I have no idea what I want and I’m gonna defer to Ballard.

Just seen a video from cbs saying Patriots  may target Love. At pick 23.

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1 hour ago, #12. said:

It seems Herbert will be gone by 13 while few mocks have Love going that high.  

 

With the way it's shaping up, my guess is Ballard waits until the 2nd to see what happens, or trades back into the first.  That said, it's a long way to the draft.

 

If tua love and herbert are gone by 13 then that leaves Fromm, Eason, Hurts and Gordon and some mocks have that happening

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I will agree. I have been on record about sticking with JB for one more season but have started to come around on drafting a QB and, like Ballard, have several that I like. 

 

Where we might disagree is the bargain bin QB/7th best. We don’t really know where they will all grade out. Right now, I would agree, most boards are

Burrow

Tua

Herbert

Love

Eason

Fromm

Gordon

Hurts

 

But we will also know way more after next week, Senior bowl. All of this boards favorites minus Eason will be there. 
 

Also contrary to belief I do actually really like Love. I made a point to watch his bowl game from beginning to end and came away highly impressed. But I will also admit I had never heard of him until word leaked that Ballard had, reportedly, gin to see him in person. What scares me the most about him, outside of decision making, is everyone saying he is the next Mahomes. There is no next Mahomes. I am scared that Ballard really likes him and may be forced to take him at 13 because that comparison will push him up the draft boards. 
 

Finally, what has shocked me the most is that everyone is either picking Gordon or Love and no one is licking Herbert. Just curious, why?

Alot of people  are scared of Oregon  qbs with Mariota  busting  and some experts don't think herbert is as good as mariota

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3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Alot of people  are scared of Oregon  qbs with Mariota  busting  and some experts don't think herbert is as good as mariota

Oregon has given us Akili Smith and Joey Harrington too. It doesn't mean Herbert is going to be a bust.... Dan Fouts was a Duck so there is that 

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Just now, akcolt said:

Oregon has given us Akili Smith and Joey Harrington too. It doesn't mean Herbert is going to be a bust.... Dan Fouts was a Duck so there is that 

I don't  think herbert  will be there.  The only qbs I have an issue with us taken are hurts and tua. Tua because  of our luck with injuries and hurts because I feel he needs alot of development  in the past game

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8 hours ago, stitches said:

That's fair... but this is NOT my point. The point is that I have my own favorite, but I am NOT advocating for drafting him specifically(I understand reasonable people can have reasonable disagreements about players and I will be happy with multiple different QBs drafted by Ballard even if they are not my favorite).

 

My point is... whoever is your favorite QB in this draft, your position shouldn't be - oh well, doesn't matter if we miss on him, as long as we can get a DT in R1 and WR in R2... 

 

And if your QB of choise is not worth a 1st or early 2nd pick, I kind of feel like he's probably not good enough anyways. To me, most R3+ QBs are just wild shots without much pressure for him to pan out. This is the type of shot you should be taking once you already have your franchise QB in the building, not relying on him to be your franchise QB of the future. That's why I think I would prefer Ballard not draft a QB at all if he doesn't like a QB early or if the QB he likes gets taken before our pick. 

 

I guess my ultimate point is - if a QB you like is there in the first and you think he's worth that pick, you don't horse around with it. You take him. Ahead of a DT, ahead of a WR, ahead of any other position player.

 

And about speculations and discussions on this forum - yes, even after the combines and workouts, most of it is still just for fun. At least for me... for fun and for connecting and engaging with other fans of the team. 

 

I agree.

 

It's a bit baffling to me that we have people on this forum that believe that adding pieces at other positions while still having a huge question mark at QB is going to make a huge difference. Taking a flyer in the later rounds on a QB that will likely wash out isn't going to fix the problem. With the Colts current QB situation, they would need atleast two+ drafts plus a good amount of injury luck and some other breaks to be in championship contention. Acquiring a QB (like Love) who might pan out after a season of learning would accelerate that and more obviously, put the team in contention for years to come.

 

I think some of the fans on this forum have forgotten just how hard it is to find a good QB and what that process usually involves.

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On 1/16/2020 at 1:22 AM, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

I think their point is at #13 you can get a pro-bowl DT or a QB you arent really sold on.  I think they would certainly go QB if they felt those available at #13 (or reasonable trade up) were more of a “sure thing” as they feel they can get at DT or WR at that position.  Its a feeling , or perception , of value think.

Right or wrong.  

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7 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

I think their point is at #13 you can get a pro-bowl DT or a QB you arent really sold on.  I think they would certainly go QB if they felt those available at #13 (or reasonable trade up) were more of a “sure thing” as they feel they can get at DT or WR at that position.  Its a feeling , or perception , of value think.

Right or wrong.  

If ballard takes a QB at 13 he is sold on him. Doesn’t matter what fans think.

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On 1/16/2020 at 1:22 AM, stitches said:

Going for bargain bin QBs should not be an option. It's so weird to me seeing people prefer getting a DEFENSIVE TACKLE over a QB... And settling for the 7th QB just so you don't pick QB in R1... It's weird

You're assuming there will be a clearly better than mid level QB available after 12 picks ...

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

If ballard takes a QB at 13 he is sold on him. Doesn’t matter what fans think.

At #13 , you better be sold on whoever you take, at any position.  
  Even when Peyton and Leaf came in, they werent “rated” all that far apart.  20 years, and A hall of fame career later, GMs are still having the same troubles finding “the guy.”

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45 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

You're assuming there will be a clearly better than mid level QB available after 12 picks ...

I think this is really the question.

  If Ballard doesnt like the value at QB at #13, he may go to plan B.  Plan B may be a 2nd tier draft QB (with high 2nd or late 2nd pick) that Ballard sees traits that fit in what he’s trying to accomplish.  I think there might be a run late in the 1st for Love, Fromm, Gordon types.  Not all, but i see teams potentially targeting QBs in 2nd or 3rd.  Possibly two or three late in the 1st.  There could be 6 or more QBs gone by end of 2nd if teams get anxious.

  Ballard always has plan C and D in his back pocket.  Plan C is free agency and a boatload of cash to spend. 
Plan D i wont mention cuz it will blow up the forum.

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Too many teams needing a QB for Herbert to be there at 13, IMO.  But if he is, that's who I would pick.

 

Having thought about it more, I think we can get our 3T at 34.  We need two DTs, the other being a NT.  A NT is more of a rotational position that comes out during passing situations.  Rotational players can be had in the third round or later. 

 

If we thought about 3T at #34 and NT at #75, we could draft QB at #13 and WR/TE at #44. 

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In the end it is truly gonna be if Ballard is sold on one.
 

Another great question is what happens if there is a run on QBs and Tua, Herbert and Love are all gone by our 13th pick. Would you be * if he picked Eason, Gordon or Hurts but said afterwards he was completely sold on him and wanted him at 13. 

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38 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

In the end it is truly gonna be if Ballard is sold on one.
 

Another great question is what happens if there is a run on QBs and Tua, Herbert and Love are all gone by our 13th pick. Would you be * if he picked Eason, Gordon or Hurts but said afterwards he was completely sold on him and wanted him at 13. 

This is a REAL possibility 

 

If Love has an excellent senior bowl and combine

 

Burrows - Bengals

Tua - Dolphins 

Herbert - Chargers

Love - Carolina
 

There are many reports like this

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_panthers_expected_to_trade_cam_newton_in_march/s1_12680_31054889


 

If Love is there at 13......  AND CB is sold on him...... I’m in

 

I think we will probably get a DT though

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Too many teams needing a QB for Herbert to be there at 13, IMO.  But if he is, that's who I would pick.

 

Having thought about it more, I think we can get our 3T at 34.  We need two DTs, the other being a NT.  A NT is more of a rotational position that comes out during passing situations.  Rotational players can be had in the third round or later. 

 

If we thought about 3T at #34 and NT at #75, we could draft QB at #13 and WR/TE at #44. 

There will defiantly be a very good DT at 34. Ballard was smart to do that trade last year and still got the guy he wanted.

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War daddy DT please!  I am not convinced he'll be there though.  I could see the Jags taking him.

 

Love is a project.  I don't like projects at #13 overall.  We might be stuck with  Brisketts for another year.

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Are any of these QBs outside of Burrow going to be worth a damn? I’m just not super sold on any of them. I don’t even know if Love is going to be 1st round talent. I’d draft the monster DT or DE with the first pick. 

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