I truly appreciate Frank, but did he get a pass this year?

[zibby43]

Let’s clear up some things: 1) I support Frank; 2) He wasn’t the *main* issue in ‘19.
 

That said, I observed how many threads and articles there are/have been about Ballard.  He gets so much more attention than any other GMs, it seems like.  Whereas other organizations’ fan bases seem to focus on the coaching, more than anything.  
 

I get that GM fascination here, to an extent, but watching this Titans team win these last 2 games has made me wonder: do the Titans have more talent on their roster than the Colts this year?

 

Or were the Titans better coached on both sides of the ball than the Colts this year?

Just curious to hear everyone’s thoughts.  Reich was dealt the ultimate bad hand prior to the season, but the team made it to 5-2 before things just went completely off the rails.  

 

Reich’s handling of the QB situation for the Miami game (Hoyer getting almost no practice reps the entire week), his decision to stick with Vinny (everyone ties this issue exclusively to Ballard; it had to be a mutual decision) until injuries forced Vinny aside, and the complete inability for his team/staff to finish games are all concerning to me.

 

The Colts got torched in 3rd quarters this season.  That was a somewhat alarming trend.  

 

Not panicking.  Not overreacting.  But Reich and the staff have to be better.  Tennessee has proven the fact that the Colts could’ve been much, much better this season.

 

Credit to Vrabel and his staff.

[Flash7]

56 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

Let’s clear up some things: 1) I support Frank; 2) He wasn’t the *main* issue in ‘19.
 

That said, I observed how many threads and articles there are/have been about Ballard.  He gets so much more attention than any other GMs, it seems like.  Whereas other organizations’ fan bases seem to focus on the coaching, more than anything.  
 

I get that GM fascination here, to an extent, but watching this Titans team win these last 2 games has made me wonder: do the Titans have more talent on their roster than the Colts this year?

 

Or were the Titans better coached on both sides of the ball than the Colts this year?

Just curious to hear everyone’s thoughts.  Reich was dealt the ultimate bad hand prior to the season, but the team made it to 5-2 before things just went completely off the rails.  

 

Reich’s handling of the QB situation for the Miami game (Hoyer getting almost no practice reps the entire week), his decision to stick with Vinny (everyone ties this issue exclusively to Ballard; it had to be a mutual decision) until injuries forced Vinny aside, and the complete inability for his team/staff to finish games are all concerning to me.

 

The Colts got torched in 3rd quarters this season.  That was a somewhat alarming trend.  

 

Not panicking.  Not overreacting.  But Reich and the staff have to be better.  Tennessee has proven the fact that the Colts could’ve been much, much better this season.

 

Credit to Vrabel and his staff.

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

[WoolMagnet]

I like Frank as the coach.  I think he brings many things to the team. 
  I do expect better from him.  This year, im jist giving everyone a pass.  To many problems in too many areas.

  I did think he did a sub-par job of righting the ship late.  Sometimes, he also seems overly old-school on some things.  Stubborn may be a bit strong, but i’d like to see the creativity on offense he talked about in the past.  Because of injuries, im giving him a pass.

  I expect more urgency next year tho. 

 

[zibby43]

10 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

 

If anything, I give more credit to Vrabel for making the decision to play Tannehill.  Certainly helped that Tannehill ended up having a career year out of nowhere, but I wouldn't say that Tannehill completely bailed the Titans out. 

 

That offense was creative/explosive (a top 12 offense in total yards), and the defense was a top 12 unit to finish the season.

 

Aside from the QB position, was the Titans' roster really that much better than the Colts'?

[Yoshinator]

16 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

Honestly, I believe the vast majority on this forum thought Brissett was better than Tannehill before the season. That number was probably around 100% after the first half of the season. Brissett fell off the map the second half, and Reich didn't seem to make any adjustments to the adjustments made to Brissett. Brissett is probably just bad, but Vrabel turned Tannehill into a solid QB during the regular season, Reich didn't do anything with Brissett after teams adjusted to him.

[LockeDown]

It’s hard for me to believe that Frank just can’t dial better  plays for JB to be more effective.  Too many people who study tape and look at these All 22s of Colts games seem to say that there are open receivers and JB just doesn’t see them or won’t throw to them.  Especially when  Luck was throwing all over the field the previous year.  I think it’s fair to compare the 2 years and the 2 QBs.  If Frank and Luck had struggled then I would be willing to place blame on Frank more. 

[lincolndefan]

7 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

 

That was never proven.

[FRW]

I think the Vinny think had more to do with it that people admit. He obviously was killing us. We can attribute at least three losses directly to his ineptness. That of course makes us 10-6 team. Other players see that. They take notice that if your name is Vinatieri you're getting a pass for lousy performance. You say the right things in interviews, but that's just for public consumption.  I've played team sports and if the coaches son gets special treatment it effects the locker room. People knew we were losing games because of him, but nothing was done. Reich even said everybody gets treated equally some just more equally. Animal Farm anyone? I think the affect was subtle, but football's a brutal game. People get hurt and play through it. But are you going to give 110% when you know one guy who should be gone may negate all your effort? Ebron was pretty obvious about how he felt, but I bet others harbored similar thoughts.

 

In addition to that as I said in a different post, teams take on the personalities of their coaches. Vrabel was a hard nosed, blue collar, gritty player at LB and I think the Titans are showing some of that. Henry of course runs over people, but also the D last night was lighting guys up. We have a quiet preacher for a coach who I imagine never raises his voice in the locker room. We need some toughness. We'v got good players, but I've seen very little of that almost a penalty type aggressiveness from our D, or the talking smack cockiness from the offense that I saw from TN last night.  They believe they can beat anyone, are putting it all on the line and making teams prove them wrong. That comes from you coach.

 

So far in their last five games no one has proven them wrong. That is what wins championships.

[B~Town]

8 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Honestly, I believe the vast majority on this forum thought Brissett was better than Tannehill before the season. That number was probably around 100% after the first half of the season. Brissett fell off the map the second half, and Reich didn't seem to make any adjustments to the adjustments made to Brissett. Brissett is probably just bad, but Vrabel turned Tannehill into a solid QB during the regular season, Reich didn't do anything with Brissett after teams adjusted to him.

What do you adjust when your Qb misses wide open recievers or just doesnt see them . 

[jbaron04]

Frank fail in two areas this season he placed Adam above the team and jacoby should have been benched to see who else can play because he didn’t have a track record to give him so much rope 

[Yoshinator]

15 minutes ago, B~Town said:

What do you adjust when your Qb misses wide open recievers or just doesnt see them . 

Have him throw quick screens and slants. Only do 2 reads. If your first read isn't there, look to the second read. If that's covered, run it or throw it away. About all you can do with him.

[Superman]

I was critical of a handful of things Reich did. But I also think he had one hand tied behind his back all season. So I don't give him a pass, I don't think he needs one. 

[P'Son]

No pass.  IMO, he made some terrible decisions that cost the Colts a playoff opportunity.

[a06cc]

6 minutes ago, P'Son said:

No pass.  IMO, he made some terrible decisions that cost the Colts a playoff opportunity.

No one points his decision making on timeouts.  That’s my only problem with Frank. It’s up to the players on the field to make the plays. The guy who shouldn’t be exempted is actually Ballard. He himself stated he didn’t give the coaches enough. We need someone on the defensive line that’s going to get pressure up front. He failed on getting a replacement for Al Woods. 

[The Fish]

This year wasn't dictated by bad coaching, but if a few subpar seasons stack up and Irsay is forced to take inventory on all things Colts, a 7-9 season is what it is.

[richard pallo]

Hopefully Reich learned something from the Vinny fiasco and it sounds like Ballard has his regrets about not doing enough to acquire talent beyond the draft and into the season.  A bit of serious reflection for both this offseason.  Hopefully Ballard will make the moves this offseason to quickly right the ship and get us back into the playoffs next year.  The success of the Titans is proof enough of what can happen when you are continually looking to upgrade the team even during the season. 

[coming on strong]

tannehill was player of the month last two months for the titans played very well passing the ball that is what made them go on a run.    a slight upgrade at QB and colts would be a playoff team .

[aaron11]

i think he did get a pass in a way

 

expectations were low so it didnt matter much when he made some very questionable calls that didnt go our way

 

i think most are going to try to forget this whole season asap

[Shepman]

To me the Vinny thing is on Ballard as Frank can only play who is on the roster.  Ballard makes the personel decisions so thats on him.

[indy1888]

Imo the decision to stick with Vinny is what derailed the season. We lost games that should have been wins simply because Vinny couldnt do the one thing he is paid to do. I believe Colts would have been a playoff team had a kicking change been made and as Tennesse and currently Houston is showing..anything is possible once you are in. Im not sure this was Reichs call however...i believe the decision came from higher up. Whoever made the call...hope it was worth it to them as they sit and watch 2 division teams battle it out for a superbowl appearance next week. 2 teams the Colts beat by the way..and woulda beat Tenn twice had Vinny not missed 3 or 4 kicks in the 2nd meeting.

[Smonroe]

Take away Rodgers, Watson, Mahomes or Brees.  Would any of those teams finished with 7 wins? 
 

 

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

Imo the decision to stick with Vinny is what derailed the season. We lost games that should have been wins simply because Vinny couldnt do the one thing he is paid to do. I believe Colts would have been a playoff team had a kicking change been made and as Tennesse and currently Houston is showing..anything is possible once you are in. Im not sure this was Reichs call however...i believe the decision came from higher up. Whoever made the call...hope it was worth it to them as they sit and watch 2 division teams battle it out for a superbowl appearance next week. 2 teams the Colts beat by the way..and woulda beat Tenn twice had Vinny not missed 3 or 4 kicks in the 2nd meeting.

Wake up call for sure for Ballard.  This has got to hurt.  I can't imagine what Irsay is thinking.  

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Take away Rodgers, Watson, Mahomes or Brees.  Would any of those teams finished with 7 wins? 

 

The Saints went 5-0 without Brees, so yeah. But that's not what typically happens when your star QB isn't available. 

[CR91]

Brisett is limited. Even though Brisett has a rocket, he's not accurate with his deep ball and you could see that in the few occasions when we threw it over 20 yards. Not to mention all the new players that were coming in and out of the building due to injuries which means the playbook needed to be scaled backed.

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Wake up call for sure for Ballard.  This has got to hurt.  I can't imagine what Irsay is thinking.  

You can’t imagine what Irsay is thinking?   Really?

 

I think Irsay thinks we caught a terrible, typically fatal seasonal mess  when Andrew Luck retired two weeks before the season started.

 

I think Irsay thinks we caught another bad break when AV tried to play through GM his injury and poor performance.   Now it’s Luck and AV.

 

I think Irsay is frustrated beyond measure with the number if injuries we suffered again.  Luck, AV, injuries.
 

Add all those up and you get a 7-9 season.

 

BUT....   if you’re trying to imply you wonder if Irsay thinks maybe Ballard isn’t the great general manager he thought he hired, that maybe he should consider firing Ballard with another disappointing season,  then if that’s what you’re hinting at, I think you’ve left the reservation.  

[P'Son]

7 hours ago, a06cc said:

No one points his decision making on timeouts.  That’s my only problem with Frank. It’s up to the players on the field to make the plays. The guy who shouldn’t be exempted is actually Ballard. He himself stated he didn’t give the coaches enough. We need someone on the defensive line that’s going to get pressure up front. He failed on getting a replacement for Al Woods. 

Resting Bisquit during MIA game and playing Vinatieri were HUGE errors in judgement.  Both cost us games that were very winnable.

[EastStreet]

Frank clearly should get a pass simply because of the QB situation in 2019. 

 

That said, he had a lot of good, but also had a lot of head scratchers....

 

I'd add that Irsay probably thought

 

1) Why on God's green earth is Frank not giving 1st team reps to the back up going into the Miami game.

 

2) Why on God's green earth is Frank choosing to throw it all over the field vs Miami who has one of the worst rush Ds in the league....

 

3) Why on God's green earth is Frank not throwing more vs one of the worst passing Ds in the league when our starting RB is out.

 

There's plenty more, but the above are 3 of the clearest WTH moments this year.

[Hoose]

When your all pro QB quits two weeks bef

[Hoose]

When your all pro QB quits two weeks before the season begins, and you get JB as the new guy, you get a pass. Sorry, but no team can overcome that kind of disruptive moment. 

[Thunderbolt]

We're smitten with untimely decisions, injuries, and poor play calling. Add to that, untimely drafting the right players.

[lollygagger8]

The coach can't control who gets injured. 

 

I think the strength & conditioning coaches, and the ST coach are the ones who need replaced, not Reich. 

[coming on strong]

On 1/12/2020 at 4:02 PM, Superman said:

 

The Saints went 5-0 without Brees, so yeah. But that's not what typically happens when your star QB isn't available. 

the colts went 5-2 with brissett and one a couple missed kicks from being 6-1 with jacoby .  AS the season goes on without a strong passing game the saints would of started to fold like the colts. they wouldnt finish 13-3

[GoColts8818]

With some sure.  If people like you they don’t want to see you fail and will tend to deflect or make excuses if you do something wrong.  
 

There is nothing wrong with that.  We are all Colts fans and want them to do well and want to like what they are doing.  So we are likely to try to find positives in negatives.  After all, very few things are truly all good or bad.  Most are blended between the two.  
 

There are people who are willing to be critical than others and that’s fine too.  There were several that found faults with Frank at different times this season.  
 

I think the problem comes in that most of the time we want a simple answers, IE it’s all because of the QB play, it’s all because of injuries and poor play at WR, it’s all on the game plan, or it’s all the GM’s fault for not having better talent.  
 

In reality it’s a combination of all those things but those things also went well at times too.  So depending on what you think is the worst is what most focus on and don’t want to discuss the others because they feel that’s getting away from “the real problem.”

[Superman]

16 hours ago, coming on strong said:

the colts went 5-2 with brissett and one a couple missed kicks from being 6-1 with jacoby .  AS the season goes on without a strong passing game the saints would of started to fold like the colts. they wouldnt finish 13-3

 

The question was whether they would go 7-9, not 13-3.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:40 AM, Flash7 said:

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

mariota is another high draft pick qb who didnt do well in the nfl, give me a proven vet until a once in a long while elite rookie comes along

[Valpo2004]

On 1/12/2020 at 12:40 AM, Flash7 said:

Honest question: what would the Titans season look like with Mariota at QB the entire season, and what would be people’s perception of Vrabel in that instance?

 

My guess is that the Titans wouldn’t have made the post season with Mariota at Qb and Vrabel would be feeling a little heat after missing the playoffs two years in a row.

 

The Colts did not have a Tannehill to bail them out. I think we have good coaching, good talent, but worse QB play currently.  Reich is fine.

 

This. . .  Titans would have a losing record with Mariota starting the whole season.  

 

Frank got 7 wins out of Brissett, most of them in games where he threw for less then 200 yards.  

 

He deserves a bit of a pass for the record.  Like it or not no one can plan for the franchise QB to retire a couple weeks before the season.  

[NannyMcafee]

On 1/12/2020 at 7:43 AM, FRW said:

I think the Vinny think had more to do with it that people admit. He obviously was killing us. We can attribute at least three losses directly to his ineptness. That of course makes us 10-6 team. Other players see that. They take notice that if your name is Vinatieri you're getting a pass for lousy performance. You say the right things in interviews, but that's just for public consumption.  I've played team sports and if the coaches son gets special treatment it effects the locker room. People knew we were losing games because of him, but nothing was done. Reich even said everybody gets treated equally some just more equally. Animal Farm anyone? I think the affect was subtle, but football's a brutal game. People get hurt and play through it. But are you going to give 110% when you know one guy who should be gone may negate all your effort? Ebron was pretty obvious about how he felt, but I bet others harbored similar thoughts.

 

In addition to that as I said in a different post, teams take on the personalities of their coaches. Vrabel was a hard nosed, blue collar, gritty player at LB and I think the Titans are showing some of that. Henry of course runs over people, but also the D last night was lighting guys up. We have a quiet preacher for a coach who I imagine never raises his voice in the locker room. We need some toughness. We'v got good players, but I've seen very little of that almost a penalty type aggressiveness from our D, or the talking smack cockiness from the offense that I saw from TN last night.  They believe they can beat anyone, are putting it all on the line and making teams prove them wrong. That comes from you coach.

 

So far in their last five games no one has proven them wrong. That is what wins championships.

 

I was saying to cut vinny but after hearing the various reasons why they didnt it makes sense. You dont cut someone without a viable replacement and the league has had a shortage of good kickers the past few years. The logic or cutting him for nothing is not very well thought out. You're assuming that this other kicker makes the ones he missed. When a good kicker became available the Colts signed him within a week. Therefore your theory of favoritism doesn't hold. 

[aaron11]

2 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

mariota is another high draft pick qb who didnt do well in the nfl, give me a proven vet until a once in a long while elite rookie comes along

we would have to be picking at the top of the draft to get someone like that, which could never happen

 

the proven vets on the market are like 40 years old. if we go that route we will be saying the same thing next year.  i think we are going to have to take a chance on a young QB sooner or later, might as well get started.  this isnt a bad year to do it with guys like love out there

[MPStack]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

we would have to be picking at the top of the draft to get someone like that, which could never happen

 

the proven vets on the market are like 40 years old. if we go that route we will be saying the same thing next year.  i think we are going to have to take a chance on a young QB sooner or later, might as well get started.  this isnt a bad year to do it with guys like love out there

Signing a veteran and drafting the future at QB, is reasonable and could potentially have the Colts in the playoffs in 2020 and going forward. 

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Signing a veteran and drafting the future at QB, is reasonable and could potentially have the Colts in the playoffs in 2020 and going forward. 

its reasonable i guess im just not loving the list of free agent QBs.  most will probably stay where they are or retire.  Bridgewater and rivers names will probably come up 

 

Drew Brees

Tom Brady

Eli Manning

Philip Rivers

Teddy Bridgewater

Jameis Winston

Marcus Mariota

Chase Daniel

Case Keenum

Chad Henne

Drew Stanton

Colt McCoy

Ryan Tannehill