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Colts Needs on Defense: Poll Part 1 (Please read OP)


COLTS DEFENSIVE NEEDS PART 1  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Biggest need on Defense (#1 Priority)

    • DE
    • iDL
    • MIKE
      0
    • WILL
      0
    • SAM
      0
    • SS
      0
    • FS
      0
    • CB
      0
    • Nickel
      0
  2. 2. 2nd Biggest need on Defense (#2 Priority)

  3. 3. 3rd Biggest need on Defense (#3 Priority)


This poll is closed to new votes

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  • Poll closed on 01/13/2020 at 04:59 AM

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Looking to get fan view, or stack rank of team needs both on Offense and Defense. 

This is not necessarily a draft/FA exercise. Simply a team needs view post 2019 / pre 2020 season.

It may take a couple polls to drill down on each side of the ball (hence Part 1, etc.).

 

I'll leave the poll up for at least 24 hours before going to Part 1 if needed.

If votes are close, I may do a few run offs to at least clarify top 3 ranked needs on each side of the ball. 

General logic will be used. Example, if while voting for #1, a specific position gets more than 50%, those results will stand (no run off). 

If multiple positions are close, I may due a run off poll, or look to second place votes.

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I went iDL, CB, and DE.

Honestly not sure we need a CB if we improve the pass rush. I think a legit inside rusher like Kinlaw would translate into the DBs looking night and day better. Not sold on Banogu just yet, and we only have Houston locked up for 1 more year. 

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I went with IDL as priority 1 and 2.  Not sure if that falls within your parameters.  If its strictly about position (and not numbers within a position), freely make the change to IDL, DE, FS and recompute.  My first choice is IDL, IDL, and DE.

 

I think we give our young players at DE, CB, and SS time to grow.  I don't think FS is necessarily a priority and as much as getting two or three new players along the DL, and I don't expect the Colts to do anything there, but I like what I see from the young CBs, LBs, and Willis as to not draft anybody at those spots.  In addition to the DL, we need more offensive skill positions than more young defense, IMO.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I went with IDL as priority 1 and 2.  Not sure if that falls within your parameters.  If its strictly about position (and not numbers within a position), freely make the change to IDL, DE, FS and recompute.  My first choice is IDL, IDL, and DE.

 

I think we give our young players at DE, CB, and SS time to grow.  I don't think FS is necessarily a priority and as much as getting two or three new players along the DL, and I don't expect the Colts to do anything there, but I like what I see from the young CBs, LBs, and Willis as to not draft anybody at those spots.  In addition to the DL, we need more offensive skill positions than more young defense, IMO.

I did the same thing. A couple of good ones and our D could look a lot different 

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Depends how much faith they have in Tell and Rock. I'm not completely convinced at the moment but if they feel there's still a lot more upside to come I wouldn't be against just focusing on guys who can get after the QB. Not bothered whether it's inside or outside.

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2 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Depends how much faith they have in Tell and Rock. I'm not completely convinced at the moment but if they feel there's still a lot more upside to come I wouldn't be against just focusing on guys who can get after the QB. Not bothered whether it's inside or outside.

 

1 hour ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

I started the season with high hopes for our CBs. I wasnt all that impressed.  So I would be very happy to see a solid CB 2 caliber guy added to the roster.

 

To the above 2 posts. Think about 3 things.

1) We had a bottom 10 pass rush. For Eberflus's zone to work, it requires a decent pass rush, which we simply don't have. Picking up a legit iDL could make the DBs look night and day different. 

2) Desir played hurt most of the year. Not saying we shouldn't be concerned with that fact (he couldn't get healthy) alone, but it did matter. To me, I think we know he can play a lot better. Only question is, was his health a blip, or simply a view of things to come. If the FO thinks it's a blip, then I'm not all that concerned.

3) Rock was handed a fire hose and asked to drink up. Prior to injury, he led all players in defensive snaps. Aside from his tug game vs Denver, he did fairly well for a rook, especially one asked to play the snaps he did. He's not struggling with speed or physicality, only technique and getting used to scheme. Those are two things that are known to click in year 2. I'm going to bet he takes a nice step forward in 2020. If we add a pass rush, I think it will be a huge step.

Bonus) Tell looked decent in limited snaps. He's really a tweener, and IMO, a 2-3 year project. He's got some great traits if we can harness them in our scheme.

 

1 hour ago, Wyldhorsefan said:

I like a big fat nose tackle I.E. Vince Wilfork who can stuff the middle and let the pass rushers do their thing.

 

IMO, we need an iDL that can rush, just not stuff. Stewart did very well this year. We were 7th in rushing D, so it's all about adding a guy with legit rush traits in the interior. 

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Ballard said we will win in the trenches, and now its time to focus on the d line.  We need play makers on the inside and the outside.  Lewis has been hurt and not looking like 2nd rnd talent to me.  Turray was looking promising before he got hurt, and although Houston is great, he is on borrowed time.  I believe Stewart finally got his needed bulk last year, and may improve even more this offseason, but I still think we need more penetration up the middle.

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IDL, CB, DE. CB means any secondary spot, but only for certain types of players. Would like either a shutdown corner or an enforcer. I have not looked into the secondary talent in the draft yet so not totally sure what will be available. DE because you always want new talent for competition. Everyone seems to be in agreement about idl being #1 for defence.

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18 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

Ballard said we will win in the trenches, and now its time to focus on the d line.  We need play makers on the inside and the outside.  Lewis has been hurt and not looking like 2nd rnd talent to me.  Turray was looking promising before he got hurt, and although Houston is great, he is on borrowed time.  I believe Stewart finally got his needed bulk last year, and may improve even more this offseason, but I still think we need more penetration up the middle.

STEWART  dropped 15lbs for this season.

 

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Been forever since we've had an inside force.

All those Ed Johnson/Keyunta/Foster types have never worked. Maybe for a stretch but never consistently.

 

Go draft the best one available. We haven't gone that route this high in the draft in I can't even remember how long honestly.

 

I should add I wouldn't be * if they went with best DE available if there's legit star potential.

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Hoping to get a stud DT, and a starting quality CB in case Desir doesn't get back to form out of this offseason. Once this teams gets a very good DT to provide pass rush from the inside and clog up the run, along with a quality secondary, this defense should be top 10. 

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Most everyone agrees we need a stud DT first. 

I would still like a stud CB & a backup nickel CB. Our defense noticeably changed when Kenny Moore went down.

I like Hooker but he gets hurt too much. I would like to draft a stud FS that isn't injury prone.

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 1:46 PM, EastStreet said:

I went iDL, CB, and DE.

Honestly not sure we need a CB if we improve the pass rush. I think a legit inside rusher like Kinlaw would translate into the DBs looking night and day better. Not sold on Banogu just yet, and we only have Houston locked up for 1 more year. 

My take on people who think cb is an issue over the line and rusher think a new CB can just intercept balls right and left without being pressured. 1. Scheme 2. Inside pressure and 3. outside pressure affect the cb play way more than a generational talent at cb will. Don’t get me wrong, a Deon Sanders type would be tremendous here and help a lot but getting pressure does more in a defense than 1 single cb does imho. 

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4 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

My take on people who think cb is an issue over the line and rusher think a new CB can just intercept balls right and left without being pressured. 1. Scheme 2. Inside pressure and 3. outside pressure affect the cb play way more than a generational talent at cb will. Don’t get me wrong, a Deon Sanders type would be tremendous here and help a lot but getting pressure does more in a defense than 1 single cb does imho. 

I absolutely think DL impacts DB, and our DBs will look better with a stronger DL.

Without a question, iDL is the biggest need.

 

That said, Desir took a big step back this year (injury or not). Since we play 3 CBs almost as a base, I think it's important to upgrade, especially if QW is not working out. I do agree DE should in the mix, but I'm assuming more improvement from Turay and Banogu, than Tell for instance.

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Pretty clear iDL is #1. DE edges out CB for #2, but the top 3 are clear as day.

 

iDL

DE

CB

FS

SS

MIKE/Nickel/SAM

 

Posit   1     2     3
iDL     76   16    10
DE       6    35    21
CB       0    29    38
FS        0    2      5
SS        0    0      3
MIKE    0    0      2
Nickel   0    0     2
SAM     0     0     1

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23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Pretty clear iDL is #1. DE edges out CB for #2, but the top 3 are clear as day.

 

iDL

DE

CB

FS

SS

MIKE/Nickel/SAM

 

Posit   1     2     3
iDL     76   16    10
DE       6    35    21
CB       0    29    38
FS        0    2      5
SS        0    0      3
MIKE    0    0      2
Nickel   0    0     2
SAM     0     0     1

I can’t imagine the team not seeing the same things. Problem is, we need a qb, maybe a OT and then the aforementioned pieces. I think we have the WR’s to get by but would mind another choice there as well given we correct these areas. 

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Colts need a different defensive coverage scheme and philosophy.  Until then their defense will continue to be exploited on a regular basis by competent QBs. Unfortunately Ballard is in love with Cover 2, zone based systems that don’t work.  We don’t have an answer at DT or a good enough line in general to get consistent pressure on QBs with our front four. That’s an absolute must if Ballard persists in the Colts being primarily a zone coverage defense. 
 

As far as poll goes, I went DT, DE, FS (Hooker needs to be pushed).

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12 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I can’t imagine the team not seeing the same things. Problem is, we need a qb, maybe a OT and then the aforementioned pieces. I think we have the WR’s to get by but would mind another choice there as well given we correct these areas. 

Yup. I'm going to combine the findings of the two polls and do an overall poll. Maybe a couple of rounds to rank the combined O and D.

 

I agree on WR. As is, and healthy, they would look a lot better with a better QB. I'd still like to take advantage of this deep draft. There will be great WRs still available in the 3rd and 4th. Can't pass that up. Too much value.

5 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Colts need a different defensive coverage scheme and philosophy.  Until then their defense will continue to be exploited on a regular basis by competent QBs. Unfortunately Ballard is in love with Cover 2, zone based systems that don’t work.  We don’t have an answer at DT or a good enough line in general to get consistent pressure on QBs with our front four. That’s an absolute must if Ballard persists in the Colts being primarily a zone coverage defense. 

 

Without a pass rush, we're going to look bad in whatever scheme we play.... I'm not a huge fan of cover2/zone, but it can work with the right personnel. I'd rather get a legit rush iDL and see how things look. A retooling would create a lot more roster turnover than necessary if we can add a piece or two and make it work.

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On 1/11/2020 at 6:14 PM, EastStreet said:

 

 

To the above 2 posts. Think about 3 things.

1) We had a bottom 10 pass rush. For Eberflus's zone to work, it requires a decent pass rush, which we simply don't have. Picking up a legit iDL could make the DBs look night and day different. 

2) Desir played hurt most of the year. Not saying we shouldn't be concerned with that fact (he couldn't get healthy) alone, but it did matter. To me, I think we know he can play a lot better. Only question is, was his health a blip, or simply a view of things to come. If the FO thinks it's a blip, then I'm not all that concerned.

3) Rock was handed a fire hose and asked to drink up. Prior to injury, he led all players in defensive snaps. Aside from his tug game vs Denver, he did fairly well for a rook, especially one asked to play the snaps he did. He's not struggling with speed or physicality, only technique and getting used to scheme. Those are two things that are known to click in year 2. I'm going to bet he takes a nice step forward in 2020. If we add a pass rush, I think it will be a huge step.

Bonus) Tell looked decent in limited snaps. He's really a tweener, and IMO, a 2-3 year project. He's got some great traits if we can harness them in our scheme.

 

 

IMO, we need an iDL that can rush, just not stuff. Stewart did very well this year. We were 7th in rushing D, so it's all about adding a guy with legit rush traits in the interior. 

It was a weird season on the DL. We have Houston who balled out, Sheard wasn't quite as good as last year, Margus Hunt was nothing like he was at the beginning of last year. Autry also took a step back. Turay looked like he was taking the next step. Stewart looks serviceable. It's just such a mixed bag. I'm really unsure whats going to work next year. There is a strong chance Houston and Sheard fall off. They are getting up there for DE's. Maybe Banago and Turay take their place maybe they don't. I might just say draft all DL. jk

 

Then you look at the secondary. Desir is 29 and will be 30 next year, there's a possibility that what we saw this year is his new normal. Kenny Moore is excellent and he will get better but he's only 5'9" at some point he's not going to be able to cover big guys on the outside. Rock is a good sized corner. I fully believe he could be a great player maybe even cover the number ones. I'm really not sure about Tell. I wish Wilson was better I though it was going to come together for him but I'm not even sure he's a depth player in this system. I really enjoy Moore in the slot. I really want a guy who can come in and be a solid player on the outside if Rock or Desir go down. So draft a 6 ft guy with some ability to play outside. I'm essentially saying draft Rock again.

 

The Safety's are playing okay. Good enough that we should spend draft capital elsewhere.

 

What we really need is a crazy good WR that stays healthy. TY is amazing but, father time is fast approaching and our offense looks like complete trash without him at 90% or better.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

It was a weird season on the DL. We have Houston who balled out, Sheard wasn't quite as good as last year, Margus Hunt was nothing like he was at the beginning of last year. Autry also took a step back. Turay looked like he was taking the next step. Stewart looks serviceable. It's just such a mixed bag. I'm really unsure whats going to work next year. There is a strong chance Houston and Sheard fall off. They are getting up there for DE's. Maybe Banago and Turay take their place maybe they don't. I might just say draft all DL. jk

I agree 1000% on it being a mixed bag. I really though adding Houston would open things for the rest, and the rest would step up. Just didn't happen. I think part of the problem was the predictability of our pass rush. We were bottom 10 IIRC in blitz %, and bottom 10 in total QB pressure. In it's simplest form, I just wish we would have blitzed more, and been more unpredictable (we only really ever blitzed on 3rd). 

 

I think Houston will have a another good year. He's basically in a contract year, and I'm sure he'd like to play on. Turay was a 3rd down specialist it seemed, so while I'm happy of his stepping forward, I still have doubts if he can be a 3 down guy. Banogu, I have no idea lol... I think he was severely undercoached on scheme, so I could see anything happening with him. Stewart, I really liked what I saw, but he's not going to be a threat in the passing game.

 

All I know is we need a legit interior rush guy. I think that would totally change the complexion of the DL...

30 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

 

Then you look at the secondary. Desir is 29 and will be 30 next year, there's a possibility that what we saw this year is his new normal. Kenny Moore is excellent and he will get better but he's only 5'9" at some point he's not going to be able to cover big guys on the outside. Rock is a good sized corner. I fully believe he could be a great player maybe even cover the number ones. I'm really not sure about Tell. I wish Wilson was better I though it was going to come together for him but I'm not even sure he's a depth player in this system. I really enjoy Moore in the slot. I really want a guy who can come in and be a solid player on the outside if Rock or Desir go down. So draft a 6 ft guy with some ability to play outside. I'm essentially saying draft Rock again.

Desir's age, on top of his injuries this year, is why I have CB as my #2 defensive need (after iDL). I agree on Moore and Rock. Rock IMO will "click" after 2019. He has the physical tools, and just needs things to come together. I like Tell as a prospect/experiment. He was highly rated going into college, and was kind of moved around on a chaotic team. I think given time he might be really good. At min, I think he could be solid depth. 

 

If I were CB, I might go later on CB, with a small school kid with good traits/measureables that killed it on a smaller stage. With QB and iDL (and maybe OT) front and center, we may not be able to take a CB till 3rd or 4th round. 

30 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

 

The Safety's are playing okay. Good enough that we should spend draft capital elsewhere.

Agree. I think Hooker would look a ton better if we had any semblance of a pass rush (same with DBs in general), and would look elite if given a chance to ball hawk instead of fend for life. I love what Willis did this year, but he still struggles when required to pass defend or go outside the box. He's got good IQ and game speed, but not great speed in general. In other words, physically limited against some of the more dynamic athletes he might have to cover. Did a damn good job year 1, just worried teams might pick on him once they have a year of film.  

30 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

 

What we really need is a crazy good WR that stays healthy. TY is amazing but, father time is fast approaching and our offense looks like complete trash without him at 90% or better.

I think there will be great WRs still well into the 4th. I've looked at the depth and it's deeper than even the experts thought last year. Some guys really came on this year. I wish we didn't have a big need for X, but we do (not so much if we re-sign Funch). If we don't re-sign Funch, we'll need to go big/possession, or big and well rounded.

 

I wouldn't give up on PC or Fountain yet. Even Dulin IMO could surprise. Bottom line, we need a QB that can stretch the field. JB wasn't that guy last year. Drafting any deep threat if JB is the QB will be questionable. 

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Again, too late to vote in the poll but I would go

 

DT (or iDL)

DE (the ones the Colts have drafted are more specialist, I think the Colts need to look at a Sheard type DE.  The Colts run defense improved dramatically when he came back from injury and finding a guy that can provide a rotation with Sheard and Houston and then take over for one in 2021 would be ideal.

Safety - The Colts are set at starting CB, IMO with Desir, Rock and Moore but I would like to see them add someone that can push Hooker to either improve or lose his starting position.

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I agree with iDL, DE and CB. Yes...the defense has some talent...but let’s not ignore that it’s still a defense that ranked in the bottom 15 in both pass defense and run defense (according to DVOA). I hope some proven talent is brought in to bolster the defense overall...leaving the flexibility to build the offense in the draft.

 

As for additional needs...I think another legit S would be a good addition...to upgrade Geathers and allow the Colts to utilize big S in nickel.
 

I also think LB could be a need long-term...though probably not this year. Okereke looked solid in coverage...but I have concerns about him becoming a reliable run stopper.

 

And although it’s not a popular opinion...I am not a big fan of Anthony Walker...or giving him a big extension. He’s still a liability in pass coverage. PFF had him graded in the 50s most of the season...until he had a monster game against the Will Grier-led Carolina Panthers.
 

I just don’t think he’s a MIKE on a team that wants to win Super Bowls...and the idea of committing $8-9M/year does not appeal to me at all. So either Okereke becomes that guy or they draft/sign another ILB.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, shastamasta said:

I agree with iDL, DE and CB. Yes...the defense has some talent...but let’s not ignore that it’s still a defense that ranked in the bottom 15 in both pass defense and run defense (according to DVOA). I hope some proven talent is brought in to bolster the defense overall...leaving the flexibility to build the offense in the draft.

I think improving just iDL, or even both iDL and DE would make the back end look much much better. I look at things heavily based on chosen scheme. Our current scheme simply won't work without an improved pass rush. And our pass rush ranked pretty darn low. I think improvements in that are make the whole machine hum along better, and we'd see the DBs look more "ball hawking" instead of  "geesh, how long to I have to cover this guy".

On 1/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, shastamasta said:

 

As for additional needs...I think another legit S would be a good addition...to upgrade Geathers and allow the Colts to utilize big S in nickel.

While I've never been a big fan of Geathers, I think Desir if perhaps the bigger need to upgrade as far as DBs are concerned. But again, perhaps they both look a lot better if we had a decent pass rush.

On 1/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, shastamasta said:

I also think LB could be a need long-term...though probably not this year. Okereke looked solid in coverage...but I have concerns about him becoming a reliable run stopper.

I really love using Oke at both SAM, and on passing downs at MIKE. It's great bang for the buck. Since we use SAM a third or less % of the time, it's great to get more value out of Oke by getting passing down snaps from him at MIKE.

On 1/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, shastamasta said:

And although it’s not a popular opinion...I am not a big fan of Anthony Walker...or giving him a big extension. He’s still a liability in pass coverage. PFF had him graded in the 50s most of the season...until he had a monster game against the Will Grier-led Carolina Panthers.

I'm not a fan of Walker in passing downs, but even less of a fan of Oke in running downs at MIKE. I am a big fan of Walker in running downs though. Walker won't compel a big dollar contract only being a 2 down LB, so not sure you have to worry about a big extension. 

 

On his grade, keep in mind that Walkers grade suffered when he moved to WILL when Leonard was out for 3 games, and he played 100ish% of snaps and had to defend the pass. Honestly I wish they would have left Walker at MIKE and let fill in for Leonard at WILL.

On 1/13/2020 at 2:35 PM, shastamasta said:

I just don’t think he’s a MIKE on a team that wants to win Super Bowls...and the idea of committing $8-9M/year does not appeal to me at all. So either Okereke becomes that guy or they draft/sign another ILB.

IIRC, Walker is only making 2.6M now, which is less than Oke and Speed. He's not a FA until 21, so we've got time. While he's likely not a pressing need for the FO, I wouldn't be shocked to see him sign something in the 5-6M range sooner than later, which would be at the bottom of the top 20. 8-9 would put him in the 12-13 range, and honestly I don't see that given he's a 2 down guy.

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