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Ideal QB Situation

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29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Derek Carr is not a free agent

 

He will cost us some picks

 

But......  I think if a deal could be done that we dont give up huge capitol, I would absolutly consider.....

 

But again..... they will want something for him

I wonder what the Raiders would want? 

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Carr would only be good if we could not get the QB we want in the draft. I am ready to move on with a young exciting QB. So if there is a choice I want to draft a young guy. Carr would only be my second option.

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Just my 2 cents but if Ballard drafts a QB early I will not consider him "reaching" for one at all.  To me it means he really thinks this guy has franchise QB potential and he's going to take him for the Colts.  It could mean staying at 13 or moving up or whatever.  I think he and Reich will be able to evaluate this QB class and make the right choice and moves to get the player they want.  

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1 hour ago, pacolts56 said:

All the more reason to NOT reach for him at #13 overall and instead target one of the premier 3-techs.

 

I can live with Jordan Love as perhaps our 3rd round selection.... but I want no part of him in Round 1 or 2, and I think he's being wildly overvalued on the Forum all because Ballard showed up at a Utah St. game.

 

Here is one excerpt... and a fairly common assessment of Jordan Love.... and a link with game tape...

 

Jordan Love’s biggest issue is with reading defenses and going through progressions to find open receivers.

Love clearly has the arm and the production, even if not this season, to be a top prospect at the quarterback position. However, his game isn’t perfect or he’d be the unanimous first overall pick. For Love, the bugaboo is with the mental parts of the game.

The tape shows some cracks in Love’s game where reading defenses is concerned. In particular, he tends to read which receiver he wants to throw to, and then targets that player no matter what happens post-snap. That has resulted in incompletions and interceptions more often than anyone would like in 2019.

 

https://withthefirstpick.com/2019/12/02/2020-nfl-draft-jordan-love-talented-but-flawed-quarterback/3/

 

They all have flaws. The point is there is no way to predict if any of the top QB will have success. Your looking for traits that you can groom into a starting QB.

 

Like someone posted about Love. Is it because he trusts a WR or he only has one WR to throw to. There is lots of reasons why it might look he doesn’t come off the first read. I have seen a few videos where he absolutely reads a defense. I seen one where he looks left then turns to the right and throws a great pass. One draft report I saw before the 2019 season started it stated how he has a fast processor and can get to his third and fourth read quick. I think a lot of this he only goes to one read was from this year and his lack of weapons.

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2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Just my 2 cents but if Ballard drafts a QB early I will not consider him "reaching" for one at all.  To me it means he really thinks this guy has franchise QB potential and he's going to take him for the Colts.  It could mean staying at 13 or moving up or whatever.  I think he and Reich will be able to evaluate this QB class and make the right choice and moves to get the player they want.  

I think this class is slightly better and somewhat similar to 2018. We should have a QB we like at 13. However, I would be perfectly fine with trading up if needed.

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5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I honestly wish we went 2-14. Then we could get Burrow and have it be Luck 2012 all over again. I praise the team when it's great and bash it when it's poor. Hopefully it'll pass over soon. This is years of frustration from Grigson onward I have toward this team, and Brissett is the final straw. To me, 2012-2019 was almost a complete waste of real-life time I spent watching this team with Luck retiring, and we have to start all over at QB again. Very draining.

I get your frustration, at times I have been very frustrated too. After having a decade going 115-45 and winning a SB to this decade of 82-78 and then Luck retiring is frustrating. We haven't really sucked and have had good moments but nothing great that stands out. I would take Burrow in a heartbeat :thmup:

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

They all have flaws. The point is there is no way to predict if any of the top QB will have success. Your looking for traits that you can groom into a starting QB.

 

Like someone posted about Love. Is it because he trusts a WR or he only has one WR to throw to. There is lots of reasons why it might look he doesn’t come off the first read. I have seen a few videos where he absolutely reads a defense. I seen one where he looks left then turns to the right and throws a great pass. One draft report I saw before the 2019 season started it stated how he has a fast processor and can get to his third and fourth read quick. I think a lot of this he only goes to one read was from this year and his lack of weapons.

To me, Love is the 2nd best QB in this class after Burrow. His faults this year are not his fault. Would love to draft him at 13 (no pun intended).

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7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I honestly wish we went 2-14. Then we could get Burrow and have it be Luck 2012 all over again. I praise the team when it's great and bash it when it's poor. Hopefully it'll pass over soon. This is years of frustration from Grigson onward I have toward this team, and Brissett is the final straw. To me, 2012-2019 was almost a complete waste of real-life time I spent watching this team with Luck retiring, and we have to start all over at QB again. Very draining.

Have trust in Ballard if they take a QB in the first he thinks the kid is great. We have to stop with the if we don’t get one of the first two QB we should not draft one. Just because a QB isn’t the top pick doesn’t mean they aren’t franchise material. This fan base is spoiled. Not one of the QB playing this weekend was a top 5 pick.

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Just my 2 cents but if Ballard drafts a QB early I will not consider him "reaching" for one at all.  


A common and premature theme from 1. folks here who love Jacoby and 2. Place more value on a DT or WR 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Have trust in Ballard if they take a QB in the first he thinks the kid is great. We have to stop with the if we don’t get one of the first two QB we should not draft one. Just because a QB isn’t the top pick doesn’t mean they aren’t franchise material. This fan base is spoiled. Not one of the QB playing this weekend was a top 5 pick.

I definitely have faith in Ballard. He's been an elite GM in his 3 years in INDY. No reason to doubt him now. He's earned my trust.

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I wonder what the Raiders would want? 

Probably a 2nd, but I would offer 2 fours - to start

 

Then 3rd and a 4

Or.... dang it... one of the 2nds

 

I think Carr would be an EXTREMELY low risk, high reward choice for the Colts

 

Vs a 50/50 swing (Or worse) with a drafted QB

 

If we SOMEHOW got them to take a 3rd and a 3rd next year....  we would have 3 excellent opportunities to draft to fill some glaring holes  - OT, WR, 3T, AND have a good QB

 

Playoffs in 2020

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Play action with Love and this running game makes me giddy. Even with a guy like Eason it would be so good. Both of them have confidence in their arms.  

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20 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Can he "work with Reich" during the offseason?  CBA?

 

 You Dingus, the off season runs up to Opening Day of next season.

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11 minutes ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

 You Dingus, the off season runs up to Opening Day of next season.

My question is - are players permitted, under the CBA, to 'work with' their coaches during the offseason?

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11 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

My question is - are players permitted, under the CBA, to 'work with' their coaches during the offseason?

I am not sure but I think this is why Mathis is no longer a official coach with the colts. It had something to do with him only being able to work with the players during a certain time.

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3 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

All the more reason to NOT reach for him at #13 overall and instead target one of the premier 3-techs.

 

I can live with Jordan Love as perhaps our 3rd round selection.... but I want no part of him in Round 1 or 2, and I think he's being wildly overvalued on the Forum all because Ballard showed up at a Utah St. game.

 

Here is one excerpt... and a fairly common assessment of Jordan Love.... and a link with game tape...

 

Jordan Love’s biggest issue is with reading defenses and going through progressions to find open receivers.

Love clearly has the arm and the production, even if not this season, to be a top prospect at the quarterback position. However, his game isn’t perfect or he’d be the unanimous first overall pick. For Love, the bugaboo is with the mental parts of the game.

The tape shows some cracks in Love’s game where reading defenses is concerned. In particular, he tends to read which receiver he wants to throw to, and then targets that player no matter what happens post-snap. That has resulted in incompletions and interceptions more often than anyone would like in 2019.

 

https://withthefirstpick.com/2019/12/02/2020-nfl-draft-jordan-love-talented-but-flawed-quarterback/3/

 

Yeah i been saying this for MONTHS Jordan Love is a one read QB. He stares down his number 1 receiver and throws it to him weather he is open or not.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not sure but I think this is why Mathis is no longer a official coach with the colts. It had something to do with him only being able to work with the players during a certain time.

Thanks!

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19 minutes ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Yeah i been saying this for MONTHS Jordan Love is a one read QB. He stares down his number 1 receiver and throws it to him weather he is open or not.

I was watching  film breakdown of him just a little bit ago. The guy was basically saying that Utah state coaches did that to him. I have read another draft report talking how he makes decisions quick and goes through all his reads. I think to many people are looking at this year  only. He basically only had one WR option. 

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Let’s also not ignore that there are plays in every playbook designed to go to the first read. When you only have one receiving option that is going to happen more often. Love basically had one guy he could trust after losing most of his weapons. 

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3 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

And you're probably right.... as many QBs are over-drafted.

 

I just think that at #13.... you HAVE to get a Day 1 impact starter....and we've so rarely had a shot at an impact DT3 over the years that we should jump all over Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw if they are there.

 

We have a pretty nice young LB corps that would be exponentially better with a stout pair of DTs in front of them.

 

 

Yup

 

 

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5 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

And you're probably right.... as many QBs are over-drafted.

 

I just think that at #13.... you HAVE to get a Day 1 impact starter....and we've so rarely had a shot at an impact DT3 over the years that we should jump all over Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw if they are there.

 

We have a pretty nice young LB corps that would be exponentially better with a stout pair of DTs in front of them.

 

 

Agreed.  Could u imagine if we got Brown and Kinlaw and then drafted Simmons from last year's draft?  Yes I wanted to move up last year and get Simmons

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The more I think about it, the most prudent move for the Colts to make regarding the QB situation is to look into acquiring David Carr this offseason.

 

Here is my reasoning: the most important thing,  IMO, Ballard stated in his season end presser was the danger of "forcing the evaluation" during the draft and pre-draft prcoess of a quarterback. I agree 100% with this.  This more than anything is what keeps certain franchises in a perpetual cycle of of mediocrity or worse.  Seasons are wasted on a guy teams are forced to talk themselves into because of a hole they have on their roster at QB.

 

To me, it would seem highly likely that the Colts are doing the above if they draft a guy in the 1st rd one year after their franchise QB retires and a season in which Brissett showed he probably is not the longterm answer.

 

The best scenario with our current draft pick, roster is to get a guy who has mutiple years of being a starter with a proven track record of solid play/sucess showing he can play well in this league, has been part of winning teams, and, most importantly, is young enough that he can still grow/improve his game, allow a team to be built around him, and allow a team to make a decision solely based on talent upgrade to trade up or take a QB in the 1st round if a favorable opportunity presents itself in the draft over the nesxt few years.

 

The only guy I see who meets the above criteria is David Carr. If the asking  price is not to steep, this makes the most sense for us going forward. This is similar to what the KC Chiefs did with Alex Smith after Andy Reid arrived and it allowed the team to get better in others until they found their guy in Mahomes.  This is the model the Colts should follow.

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14 minutes ago, SR711 said:

The more I think about it, the most prudent move for the Colts to make regarding the QB situation is to look into acquiring David Carr this offseason.

 

Here is my reasoning: the most important thing,  IMO, Ballard stated in his season end presser was the danger of "forcing the evaluation" during the draft and pre-draft prcoess of a quarterback. I agree 100% with this.  This more than anything is what keeps certain franchises in a perpetual cycle of of mediocrity or worse.  Seasons are wasted on a guy teams are forced to talk themselves into because of a hole they have on their roster at QB.

 

To me, it would seem highly likely that the Colts are doing the above if they draft a guy in the 1st rd one year after their franchise QB retires and a season in which Brissett showed he probably is not the longterm answer.

 

The best scenario with our current draft pick, roster is to get a guy who has mutiple years of being a starter with a proven track record of solid play/sucess showing he can play well in this league, has been part of winning teams, and, most importantly, is young enough that he can still grow/improve his game, allow a team to be built around him, and allow a team to make a decision solely based on talent upgrade to trade up or take a QB in the 1st round if a favorable opportunity presents itself in the draft over the nesxt few years.

 

The only guy I see who meets the above criteria is David Carr. If the asking  price is not to steep, this makes the most sense for us going forward. This is similar to what the KC Chiefs did with Alex Smith after Andy Reid arrived and it allowed the team to get better in others until they found their guy in Mahomes.  This is the model the Colts should follow.

 

What kind of draft picks you think the NFL channel will want? haha

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Theres too many quality players in this trade, whether it be at WR, DT or DE to over draft for a qb. I definitely like a few, but I wouldn't reach. Worst case scenario I'd grab some playmakers early then grab Gordon in the 4th or 5th and see if you can develop him. He can sling it.

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19 hours ago, SR711 said:

The more I think about it, the most prudent move for the Colts to make regarding the QB situation is to look into acquiring David Carr this offseason.

 

Here is my reasoning: the most important thing,  IMO, Ballard stated in his season end presser was the danger of "forcing the evaluation" during the draft and pre-draft prcoess of a quarterback. I agree 100% with this.  This more than anything is what keeps certain franchises in a perpetual cycle of of mediocrity or worse.  Seasons are wasted on a guy teams are forced to talk themselves into because of a hole they have on their roster at QB.

 

To me, it would seem highly likely that the Colts are doing the above if they draft a guy in the 1st rd one year after their franchise QB retires and a season in which Brissett showed he probably is not the longterm answer.

 

The best scenario with our current draft pick, roster is to get a guy who has mutiple years of being a starter with a proven track record of solid play/sucess showing he can play well in this league, has been part of winning teams, and, most importantly, is young enough that he can still grow/improve his game, allow a team to be built around him, and allow a team to make a decision solely based on talent upgrade to trade up or take a QB in the 1st round if a favorable opportunity presents itself in the draft over the nesxt few years.

 

The only guy I see who meets the above criteria is David Carr. If the asking  price is not to steep, this makes the most sense for us going forward. This is similar to what the KC Chiefs did with Alex Smith after Andy Reid arrived and it allowed the team to get better in others until they found their guy in Mahomes.  This is the model the Colts should follow.

I think you mean Derek Carr.  Right?
 

He is not a FA

 

it will cost us some picks

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On 1/10/2020 at 1:00 PM, MPStack said:


I’d hate to be in Ballard’s shoes in that scenario, especially if the Colts missed the playoffs again in 2020. Hoping a 2nd or 3rd Rd QB is the new franchise in 2021. JMO

 

Agree

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:16 PM, SR711 said:

The more I think about it, the most prudent move for the Colts to make regarding the QB situation is to look into acquiring David Carr this offseason.

 

Here is my reasoning: the most important thing,  IMO, Ballard stated in his season end presser was the danger of "forcing the evaluation" during the draft and pre-draft prcoess of a quarterback. I agree 100% with this.  This more than anything is what keeps certain franchises in a perpetual cycle of of mediocrity or worse.  Seasons are wasted on a guy teams are forced to talk themselves into because of a hole they have on their roster at QB.

 

To me, it would seem highly likely that the Colts are doing the above if they draft a guy in the 1st rd one year after their franchise QB retires and a season in which Brissett showed he probably is not the longterm answer.

 

The best scenario with our current draft pick, roster is to get a guy who has mutiple years of being a starter with a proven track record of solid play/sucess showing he can play well in this league, has been part of winning teams, and, most importantly, is young enough that he can still grow/improve his game, allow a team to be built around him, and allow a team to make a decision solely based on talent upgrade to trade up or take a QB in the 1st round if a favorable opportunity presents itself in the draft over the nesxt few years.

 

The only guy I see who meets the above criteria is David Carr. If the asking  price is not to steep, this makes the most sense for us going forward. This is similar to what the KC Chiefs did with Alex Smith after Andy Reid arrived and it allowed the team to get better in others until they found their guy in Mahomes.  This is the model the Colts should follow.

I'd be good with Carr.   Having a great O-line, could make Indy attractive for free agents as well.   I'd prefer Carr, but would settle for Dalton or Rivers.

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:17 AM, Chloe6124 said:

He only had 6 int  the year before.  So he had a bad year because his team was playing from behind a lot because of horrible defense and had to play hero ball.  Let’s not forget how many INT Manning had his rookie season.

Did you just compare Manning's rookie season to Love's collegiate season? I'm assuming I'm reading this wrong?   

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On 1/11/2020 at 9:16 PM, SR711 said:

The more I think about it, the most prudent move for the Colts to make regarding the QB situation is to look into acquiring David Carr this offseason.

 

Here is my reasoning: the most important thing,  IMO, Ballard stated in his season end presser was the danger of "forcing the evaluation" during the draft and pre-draft prcoess of a quarterback. I agree 100% with this.  This more than anything is what keeps certain franchises in a perpetual cycle of of mediocrity or worse.  Seasons are wasted on a guy teams are forced to talk themselves into because of a hole they have on their roster at QB.

 

To me, it would seem highly likely that the Colts are doing the above if they draft a guy in the 1st rd one year after their franchise QB retires and a season in which Brissett showed he probably is not the longterm answer.

 

The best scenario with our current draft pick, roster is to get a guy who has mutiple years of being a starter with a proven track record of solid play/sucess showing he can play well in this league, has been part of winning teams, and, most importantly, is young enough that he can still grow/improve his game, allow a team to be built around him, and allow a team to make a decision solely based on talent upgrade to trade up or take a QB in the 1st round if a favorable opportunity presents itself in the draft over the nesxt few years.

 

The only guy I see who meets the above criteria is David Carr. If the asking  price is not to steep, this makes the most sense for us going forward. This is similar to what the KC Chiefs did with Alex Smith after Andy Reid arrived and it allowed the team to get better in others until they found their guy in Mahomes.  This is the model the Colts should follow.

Gruden is not going to trade Carr unless the Colts or any other team come off some serious trades. 

The Raiders have the draft picks to keep Carr and draft a future QB. 

IMO any talk of trading for Carr is a waste of time. 

If any team thought Mahomes would turn out to be what he is he would have been gone before KC made the move to get him. Hindsight makes everything seem better but the reality is it's a gamble no matter who you take. 

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An interesting alternative was tossed out this morning by Peter King and Mike Florio on PFT.  A team in need of a QB with a lot of cap space might want to go after Taysom Hill of the Saints.  The team is up against the cap and all of their QB's are FAs.  Hill is a restricted FA so a team could sign him after he is tendered and if the Saints don't match they could lose him.  Payton compared him to Steve Young in the preseason.  They used the Patriots as an example of a team that might attempt to sign him.  Thought I would share.  

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

An interesting alternative was tossed out this morning by Peter King and Mike Florio on PFT.  A team in need of a QB with a lot of cap space might want to go after Taysom Hill of the Saints.  The team is up against the cap and all of their QB's are FAs.  Hill is a restricted FA so a team could sign him after he is tendered and if the Saints don't match they could lose him.  Payton compared him to Steve Young in the preseason.  They used the Patriots as an example of a team that might attempt to sign him.  Thought I would share.  

 

Patriots barely have about $46 mil. in cap space for free agents, and if they have to pay Brady and McCourty, it will consume most of it with the rest for draft picks, IMO. That is why their fans are hoping Brady takes a hometown discount, I do not see them in the market for Taysom Hill.

 

With Josh McCown tearing his hamstring off the bone (kept playing gutsily through the wild card game after that), the Eagles would definitely be in the market, IMO, and so will the Broncos, if they cut Flacco.

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31 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Patriots barely have about $46 mil. in cap space for free agents, and if they have to pay Brady and McCourty, it will consume most of it with the rest for draft picks, IMO. That is why their fans are hoping Brady takes a hometown discount, I do not see them in the market for Taysom Hill.

 

With Josh McCown tearing his hamstring off the bone (kept playing gutsily through the wild card game after that), the Eagles would definitely be in the market, IMO, and so will the Broncos, if they cut Flacco.

I was not not expecting the Patriot example at all but it was Florio and King so there you have it.  Of the teams with a lot of cap space I though they would have thrown out the Colts or Bucs.  I think we are usually mentioned in a lot of player connections because of all of our space. 

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8 hours ago, richard pallo said:

An interesting alternative was tossed out this morning by Peter King and Mike Florio on PFT.  A team in need of a QB with a lot of cap space might want to go after Taysom Hill of the Saints.  The team is up against the cap and all of their QB's are FAs.  Hill is a restricted FA so a team could sign him after he is tendered and if the Saints don't match they could lose him.  Payton compared him to Steve Young in the preseason.  They used the Patriots as an example of a team that might attempt to sign him.  Thought I would share.  

He's a great utility player but not worth starting QB money. He is not even over Bridgewater on the depth chart for a reason. 

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

How can a thread titled "Ideal QB Situation not be mostly about Brissett when he is currently the starting QB?   

I guess ideally the Colts QB is MaHomes.   But that is not realistic.  So for me, ideally we bring in a vet for 1-2 years to bridge the gap until a QB they draft is ready.  Let Brissett walk and don't waste another season on him.  

That is an option.

Which vets do you like?

 

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50 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

That is an option.

Which vets do you like?

 

I actually would like Rivers on a short 1-2 year contract.   He's worked with Reich and I think he would improve behind the Colts O-line.   I would like to see what he could do with/for Hines since Rivers did great with Ekeler.  I've never been a huge Rivers fan, but with this Colts team, I think he could put us at 9-11 wins.   2 better than I think Brissett is capable of.  

 

There’s also a coaching connection as Frank Reich, head coach of the Colts, was the Chargers’ quarterbacks coach in 2013, arguably the best of Rivers’ career.

That season, Rivers completed 69.5 percent of his throws (the highest of his career), threw for 4,478 yards with 32 touchdowns and only 11 interceptions. Reich became offensive coordinator for the next two seasons, two years in which Rivers also played quite well.

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On 1/13/2020 at 12:08 AM, Thunderbolt said:

That's why we need to draft a game changer  manager in Jake Fromm, enough said.

FTFY

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Getting a vet on a short term deal does nothing to advance our future and get where we need to be. Look at the future of the AFC and young QB. It’s time to start the future.

 

Burrow

Mahomes

watson

maybe Herbert in LA

Miami  maybe TUA

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44 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Getting a vet on a short term deal does nothing to advance our future and get where we need to be. Look at the future of the AFC and young QB. It’s time to start the future.

 

Burrow

Mahomes

watson

maybe Herbert in LA

Miami  maybe TUA


I bet the Titans disagree. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Getting a vet on a short term deal does nothing to advance our future

 

Disagree.

Getting a vet doesn't mean that Ballard shouldn't evaluate QB's and grab one high if merited, that's the priority above all others. A vet in the short term does advance the most important position.

 

I'm going to say it again, if you want skeptics like me (or forget me- just generally) to have some optimism on behalf of JB, someone in the know needs to make that case that his knee injury is why he couldn't hit the broad side of the barn for half of a season. It's really the only variable that constitutes as an explanation for his bad accuracy that might improve, beyond him simply becoming something he hasn't been yet.

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    • I am very happy to have Pascal on the squad. He is the definition of great depth. As mentioned above though, of he is anything over #4 on WR depth chart. Things haven't gone as planned.
    • Tyrod wasn't brought in to start until Herbert gets ready, he was already there. He is a place holder for Herbert, but not all situations are the same. This comparison is way off in almost every aspect.    I fully understand the situation in NO.   The fact Hill can be listed/play as another position, has no effect on JW. It's actually the opposite. They will have 3 qbs with one able to be a gadget guy.   Taysom Hill has 13 career pass attempts. To add to that he is 3 yrs older than JW as well. Pretty sure if Brees goes down, they will be having JW as the QB. Now if both get injured in a game, they have a 3rd emergency QB in Hill.   Sorry PT, just think you're wrong on both accounts here.
    • Ty Detmer was brought in by the new Browns to start until Tim Couch was ready         The way NO uses TH if the team only dress 2 QBs it will be DB and TH
    • If Pascal is not 4th,  then the Colts have a problem.   That means Hilton is hurt,  or Campbell is hurt or Pittman is slow to develop.     If all three are healthy and developing as advertised,  Pascal is 4th.   The only way Pascal is ever any higher is if something has gone wrong.   He's not going to be higher based on ability and beating out one of the top three.   He only gets higher if opportunity shows up.    Not based on his ability.     Sorry.    
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