Ideal QB Situation

[hoosierhawk]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

QB situations:

 

1. We get our quality long-term franchise QB who will help us compete(via FA or trade). I almost never talk about about this situation because I don't really believe it's realistic to expect. High end franchise QBs don't enter FA and they very rarely become available for trade. Here's a funky one... lets say the Browns decide to Brown again and give up on Baker. Do you even go there? I like Baker as a QB and I think he will be excellent with our line and our coaching. His attitude/character issues are a concern though... so... what say you? 

 

Anyways - I think this situation is unrealistic and in most threads I absolutely ignore it, but for the sake of argument and for the sake of putting out a fun hypothetical I decided to post it here.

 

2. We get extremely short term upgrade on Brissett in FA by one of the vets QBs hitting FA. I am not here to argue specific name, so pick your favorite here - Brady/Rivers/Dalton/etc. whoever you like. We also draft our future QB in the draft. Again, not going to entertain names - whoever Ballard likes best. This one gives us short-term upgrade and still puts in place the plan for the long-term succession at the position. To me this is somewhat realistic, but honestly I don't expect it to happen. I think Ballard would rather just stick with Brissett for next year and draft a QB for the long-term(situations 3).

 

3. Ballard sticks with Brissett and drafts his successor high in the draft. Again - no names, pick your favorite/Ballard's favorite. This to me is the most realistic one and the most likely one to happen and I would be happy with it, with one slight disclaimer - I still want them to try to make the guy ready for game 1 of the 2020 season. 

 

4. Ballard sticks with Brissett and either takes a shot at a QB late in the draft or doesn't pick a QB. This to me is less than ideal. I want us to have our QB of the future in the building as soon as possible so we can start making him ready to start for the team. I don't believe you can rely on late shots in the draft to pan out into something. This one would be a brow raiser and would raise some questions about how Ballard sees the QB position. 

 

5. Ballard not only sticks with Brissett but offers him an extension. To me this is a disaster scenario. This to me would signify that they truly believe they can win consistently with this type of QB play or they think Brissett can improve on things he hasn't improved on in the last 5 years while being coached by Bill Belichick and Frank Reich and learning from Tom Brady and Andrew Luck. This is when I will start losing confidence in Ballard.  

#5 is a job killer( Chris Ballard's job that is).

[superrep1967]

3 hours ago, coltsva said:

I kept hearing in 2018 how JB could start for a lot of teams, and how he wouldn’t stay around past 2019 to be Lucks backup. 

 

so my question is:

Wasn’t JB doing everything possible in the past several off seasons to prepare himself to be a starting QB somewhere in 2020? Wasn’t he working on his weak areas?
 

I assume he was, and I don’t see how those areas magically improve this off season, simply because he has sufficient notice that he may be the Colts 2020 starting QB, or at least will be competing for the job. 

I couldn't agree more he's had plenty of enough chances to show what he can do. I think we have seen the best of JB and it time to move on. But haven said that I do believe JB will be the starting QB next season unless something unforeseen happens like a Luck return not likely though. 

[Dingus McGirt]

4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

The more I have thought about it, the more I really like how Ballard and Reich are playing this QB situation.  Think about it. 

 

They throw support behind Brissett as QB1, because to quote Mike Chappell, "they don't have an option B on the roster right now.  They surround him with healthy talent and give him this offseason to fully understand that he is the starter going into next season and next season is his "FINAL EXAM".  My hope is obviously that he take that and run with it.  Spend the offseason working with Reich and House.  Get his WRs together for throwing sessions (Like Manning did at Duke) and team building activities( Like Carson Wentz did in North Dakota).  Work on his overall health and attempt to do what Lamar Jackson did this year, Improve his Overall Game.

 

On the other note, they spend the offseason seeing if there is a viable option B in the draft or via free agency/trade.  I personally don't see Ballard going the FA route. The only trade that makes any sense to me is Derek Carr.  If you can pull that off, then this is all null and void and you trade for him and then draft to improve your overall team BPA at positions of need.

 

So lets focus on the draft.

 

Situation 1

Lets say that Ballard loves a guy like Jordon Love and decides to take him at 13.  Then you let him sit for a year behind Brissett and learn how to be a pro player and how to command an NFL huddle.  Say what you will about Brissett but the guy is well respected and knows how to command a team from a leadership perspective. Learn from Reich.  Then you are looking at a QB room that would ideally be QB1- Brissett QB2- Chad Kelly QB3- Jordan Love for 2020 season with infinite possibilities for 2021.  That sounds pretty great.

 

Situation 2 (This is my Preference)

Lets say that Ballard just doesn't buy into a player like Love at 13 but falls head over heals for a guy like Jacob Eason or Anthony Gordon (Bias, MY GUY!!) and he knows he can get him in the second round, either at 34 or 44. So with 13 we get a guy like Henry Ruggs or Javon Kinlaw, a pick that helps the overall team also.  Then we get a QB that he likes in the 2nd round and then go and get weapons like a Jared Pinkney-TE, Chase Claypool-WR to help our new QB and JB.  Then you are looking at an overall improved team with playmakers for either JB but also for your future QB and your QB room looks like QB1- Brissett QB2- Chad Kelly QB3- Anthony Gordon/Jacob Eason for 2020.

 

Overall

I might be optimistic but I love these ideas.  You can shore up your team and you get a QB room that is much improved over last year.  You get a rookie you like, that, if he is the guy you think he can be, will either take the job from Brissett because he is an upgrade or, will push Brissett to reach his ceiling (which isn't for this topic but I feel he is more the first 7 games than the last 7 games).  Then you decide at the end of the year.  Did Brissett do enough to warrant an extension or do you hand the keys to your new QB going into year 2.

 

Gonna be a fun offseason.

 

Can he "work with Reich" during the offseason?  CBA?

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

Dude. I get your question. Lol. No need to continue to repeat. That is why I said as much as allowed. If I didn’t I apologize. That is what I meant. 

[lennymoore24]

Outside of Luck returning, here would be my idea QB situation:

 

1) Brissett and Hoyer are sent packing.

2) Rivers or Foles are available and signed to one year.

3) Pick a WR or DT at 13

4) Pick Anthony Gordon or Jake Fromm at #34 or #45.

 

This puts us in a position to win now plus hopefully develop someone to take over after 2020.

 

I am not a fan of Love or Herbert because they make bad decisions.  

 

 

[jbaron04]

#1 The ideal situation is to draft a rookie he beats jacoby out fair and square jacoby backs him up this year , 

[EastStreet]

To the OP...

 

I don't see that the FO has thrown any true support behind JB at this stage... "jury is still out", "as of now", and all the contract talk.... That tells me it's wide open and is just the opposite of throwing support behind a guy.

 

IMO, this isn't rocket science. Ballard will deep dive guys in the draft, knock on a few FA doors, etc.. Whatever happens or doesn't happen will then translate into how he looks at the 3 guys already under contract. 

 

[esmort]

6 hours ago, stitches said:

 

I don't consider Carr one of those long-term high end starters, so no. I think he's extremely average while commanding a very high salary and this is one of the situations we have to avoid - paying a ton for average QB play. You have to really be in 2 situations - you either have to pay little for average to great QB play(rookie scale QB), or you have to pay a ton for great QB play(franchise QBs on non-rookie contracts). This way you get a bit of a margin of error to construct the rest of the roster. Great QB play gives you margin of error elsewhere, and low QB salary gives you margin of error/additional resources to strengthen the roster elsewhere. Carr gives you none of those. 

 

On your second question - to me anything past R2 is taking a wild shot that doesn't really have high success rate historically. Just the best prospect don't usually fall that far. There of course are exceptions, but they are few and far between and the huge majority of the ones drafted R3 or day 3 don't amount to anything more than backups. That's why I said, even if he drafts one late, it doesn't mean much because you cannot rely on that QB panning out... huge majority of those don't. 

 

 

I don't know how realistic Carr being available is ... but his contract really doesn't seem that bad considering where contracts are at/going. He's ~#11 QB right now and when Mahomes, Watson, Prescott, etc ... do their contracts in the next year or so he will probably be right around mid-pack ~#16 or so and is locked in for 3 more years. The QBs making less will consist mostly of Rookie contracts and backups. I doubt you get any decent vet for much less ... Foles , Alex Smith, are in the same range, and decent chance someone like Bridgewater cashes in for a similar amount.   JB is carrying a $21.375 cap hit; Carr is $21.5 mil.

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, stitches said:

 

I don't consider Carr one of those long-term high end starters, so no. I think he's extremely average while commanding a very high salary and this is one of the situations we have to avoid - paying a ton for average QB play. You have to really be in 2 situations - you either have to pay little for average to great QB play(rookie scale QB), or you have to pay a ton for great QB play(franchise QBs on non-rookie contracts). This way you get a bit of a margin of error to construct the rest of the roster. Great QB play gives you margin of error elsewhere, and low QB salary gives you margin of error/additional resources to strengthen the roster elsewhere. Carr gives you none of those. 

 

On your second question - to me anything past R2 is taking a wild shot that doesn't really have high success rate historically. Just the best prospect don't usually fall that far. There of course are exceptions, but they are few and far between and the huge majority of the ones drafted R3 or day 3 don't amount to anything more than backups. That's why I said, even if he drafts one late, it doesn't mean much because you cannot rely on that QB panning out... huge majority of those don't. 

 

Since Carr has been given decent coaching/scheme, and an improved roster (not really on O), his performance this year was far from extremely average. The roster is still far from great on O, but with the changes, he was #10 in QBR, #9 in RAT, #14 in YPG, #9 in AVG, #9 ANY/A (for SC), #11 INT%, #8 in sack%, etc.. Those are very nice improvements in a short time. Is it a freak occurrence, or are we seeing what he is truly capable of given decent support. Aside from drafting/adding Jacobs (RB), his WR group is pretty lame (you think ours is lame, look at theirs). 

 

Not saying Carr is the second coming, but he had a very very nice year with a very bad to mediocre receiving corp. I think you'll see continued improvement by him, especially if given some toys. I think Gruden would be foolish to get rid of him given the turnaround, but you never know. The contract to me is not an issue. The only issue I can see is what Gruden would want in return. Personally, I'd either give both our 2s, or our 1st. If we gave our 1st, I'd trade our two 2s and get into the mid 1st to take an iDL. 

[Thunderbolt]

lennymoore24 your on Q, I would prefer Fromm over Gordon though.

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I don't know how realistic Carr being available is ... but his contract really doesn't seem that bad considering where contracts are at/going. He's ~#11 QB right now and when Mahomes, Watson, Prescott, etc ... do their contracts in the next year or so he will probably be right around mid-pack ~#16 or so and is locked in for 3 more years. The QBs making less will consist mostly of Rookie contracts and backups. I doubt you get any decent vet for much less ... Foles , Alex Smith, are in the same range, and decent chance someone like Bridgewater cashes in for a similar amount.   JB is carrying a $21.375 cap hit; Carr is $21.5 mil.

I really would scratch my head if Gruden got rid of him, so agree, not sure of his availability. His contract matches his 2019 performance almost perfectly (see stats/ranks above), and would not be an issue.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

lennymoore24 your on Q, I would prefer Fromm over Gordon though.

You should check out Fromm's performance over some of the better teams. Also, check out some of the UGA boards regarding what UGA fans think of Fromm. IMO, low ceiling, but steady floor. Not sure he's a guy you want to use a 1st or 2nd on if you're looking for the future. 

[NewColtsFan]

49 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I don't know how realistic Carr being available is ... but his contract really doesn't seem that bad considering where contracts are at/going. He's ~#11 QB right now and when Mahomes, Watson, Prescott, etc ... do their contracts in the next year or so he will probably be right around mid-pack ~#16 or so and is locked in for 3 more years. The QBs making less will consist mostly of Rookie contracts and backups. I doubt you get any decent vet for much less ... Foles , Alex Smith, are in the same range, and decent chance someone like Bridgewater cashes in for a similar amount.   JB is carrying a $21.375 cap hit; Carr is $21.5 mil.

Don’t bet the farm on Bridgewater replacing Brees just yet.   An ESPN football writer this week speculated Sean Payton might be more willing to I trust the Saints future on Taysom Hill over Bridgewater.   There’s a lot of buzz around Hill right now.   Just saying....   

[esmort]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Don’t bet the farm on Bridgewater replacing Brees just yet.   An ESPN football writer this week speculated Sean Payton might be more willing to I trust the Saints future on Taysom Hill over Bridgewater.   There’s a lot of buzz around Hill right now.   Just saying....   

 

I wasn't saying the Saints will necessarily be the ones to pay Bridgewater. Personally I am not a big Bridgewater fan, but I think there is a good chance some team will give him a big contract. 

 

As far as Taysom Hill goes he is an interesting player, I am not sure about the Steve Young comparisons, but I am definitely curious to see if Sean Payton can do something with him.

[Wyldhorsefan]

Frank comes out of retirement and names himself Head coach and starting QB.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Since Carr has been given decent coaching/scheme, and an improved roster (not really on O), his performance this year was far from extremely average. The roster is still far from great on O, but with the changes, he was #10 in QBR, #9 in RAT, #14 in YPG, #9 in AVG, #9 ANY/A (for SC), #11 INT%, #8 in sack%, etc.. Those are very nice improvements in a short time. Is it a freak occurrence, or are we seeing what he is truly capable of given decent support. Aside from drafting/adding Jacobs (RB), his WR group is pretty lame (you think ours is lame, look at theirs). 

 

Not saying Carr is the second coming, but he had a very very nice year with a very bad to mediocre receiving corp. I think you'll see continued improvement by him, especially if given some toys. I think Gruden would be foolish to get rid of him given the turnaround, but you never know. The contract to me is not an issue. The only issue I can see is what Gruden would want in return. Personally, I'd either give both our 2s, or our 1st. If we gave our 1st, I'd trade our two 2s and get into the mid 1st to take an iDL. 

With Gruden you never know.  The only rookie QB I see him trying to realistically get is Tua.  I would give up our 1st so he would have the picks to really move up.  I also like the idea of moving back into the list to get a IDL but if everything goes right he might be able to get that position in FA.  Then he could stay put with the 2's and move JB to get another pick.  

[stitches]

 

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Since Carr has been given decent coaching/scheme, and an improved roster (not really on O), his performance this year was far from extremely average. The roster is still far from great on O, but with the changes, he was #10 in QBR, #9 in RAT, #14 in YPG, #9 in AVG, #9 ANY/A (for SC), #11 INT%, #8 in sack%, etc.. Those are very nice improvements in a short time. Is it a freak occurrence, or are we seeing what he is truly capable of given decent support. Aside from drafting/adding Jacobs (RB), his WR group is pretty lame (you think ours is lame, look at theirs). 

 

Not saying Carr is the second coming, but he had a very very nice year with a very bad to mediocre receiving corp. I think you'll see continued improvement by him, especially if given some toys. I think Gruden would be foolish to get rid of him given the turnaround, but you never know. The contract to me is not an issue. The only issue I can see is what Gruden would want in return. Personally, I'd either give both our 2s, or our 1st. If we gave our 1st, I'd trade our two 2s and get into the mid 1st to take an iDL. 

 

3 hours ago, esmort said:

 

I don't know how realistic Carr being available is ... but his contract really doesn't seem that bad considering where contracts are at/going. He's ~#11 QB right now and when Mahomes, Watson, Prescott, etc ... do their contracts in the next year or so he will probably be right around mid-pack ~#16 or so and is locked in for 3 more years. The QBs making less will consist mostly of Rookie contracts and backups. I doubt you get any decent vet for much less ... Foles , Alex Smith, are in the same range, and decent chance someone like Bridgewater cashes in for a similar amount.   JB is carrying a $21.375 cap hit; Carr is $21.5 mil.

 

I think Carr had a very good season(above his usual level), but I think similar to Brissett's first half of the season his stats are severely overstating how good he's playing and his coach and scheming are doing a ton to help him(at least unlike Brissett he's actually using that scheming pretty well). Don't get me wrong - he's playing clearly better than Brissett. But he's dink and dunking even more than Brissett. His intended air yards per attempt are second lowest in the entire league and his completed air yards per attempt are bottom 5 in the league too... again... lower than Brissett. He has the second lowest % of throws into tight coverage. AGG% has some problems with it that I'm worried about citing it so take this with a grain of salt and not as stand alone stat but rather in combination with the previous several stats - he's again second worst in the league with only Devlin Hodges below him.  His TD% is bottom 10 in the league too. The point is - Gruden actually was doing hell of a lot of scheming to get tons of YAC(at some point during the season over 55% of his yards came after the catch). He's a heavily schemed QB. He's not what I think of when I think of high end starter in the league. He's more along the lines of what good game manager is... what Jacoby was supposed to be, but at the end failed to be.  

 

So add to this what we would have to spend on him to get him in the first place (IMO they will want at the very least the high second, this is the bare minimum) and what he commands now and what he will command once we trade for him. Him being paid about average means close to nothing when his deal is 3 years old now. When he hits FA he will want an update on that salary and what are you going to do with it? Are you letting him go when he tells you Kirk Cousins is getting 30, Garoppolo is getting over 30, why shouldn't I?  Even if he's again paid average - this takes a ton of your capspace. Whether you pay him 25 or 30 it doesn't really matter, the point is he's getting paid very little less than the great QBs and providing nothing close in terms of play.

[pacolts56]

There is no "ideal" to this QB situation..... I'm so used to us sucking for a season and drafting a generational talent that I don't know what to think in these uncharted waters... but here's my best shot....

 

1. Draft Anthony Gordon no earlier than the 3rd round.... we get fresh blood at QB with some semblance of deep ball capability, and without reaching for Love or Hebert, who have plenty of question marks.... at the cost of our 1st round pick.

 

2. Cut Brian Hoyer - KEEP Chad Kelly

 

3. Have Kelly and Gordon duke it out for the #2 spot.

 

4. Open 2020 with Brissett.... and if the offense continues to sputter 2-3 games into the season.... we move on from Jacoby for good.

 

We're kind of in "no man's land" at QB for now.... so Ballard might as well fortify the rest of the roster with our draft picks and NOT reach for a QB in the 1st round or overpay any of the FA retreads. 

 

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

 

 

I think Carr had a very good season(above his usual level), but I think similar to Brissett's first half of the season his stats are severely overstating how good he's playing and his coach and scheming are doing a ton to help him(at least unlike Brissett he's actually using that scheming pretty well).

Carr ended actually had more yards in the second half of the season.

19 minutes ago, stitches said:

Don't get me wrong - he's playing clearly better than Brissett. But he's dink and dunking even more than Brissett. His intended air yards per attempt are second lowest in the entire league and his completed air yards per attempt are bottom 5 in the league too... again... lower than Brissett.

Carr is 17th in completed air yards as opposed to JB who is 29th.

His leading catcher is a TE. Like I said, very poor group of WRs, worse than JB's.... And still right at the mid point (17th). 

19 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

He has the second lowest % of throws into tight coverage. AGG% has some problems with it that I'm worried about citing it so take this with a grain of salt and not as stand alone stat but rather in combination with the previous several stats - he's again second worst in the league with only Devlin Hodges below him.  His TD% is bottom 10 in the league too. The point is - Gruden actually was doing hell of a lot of scheming to get tons of YAC(at some point during the season over 55% of his yards came after the catch). He's a heavily schemed QB. He's not what I think of when I think of high end starter in the league. He's more along the lines of what good game manager is... what Jacoby was supposed to be, but at the end failed to be. 

I disagree as he really doesn't fit Gruden's scheme (that's why many think they may draft). Honestly I'm not sure that Gruden is scheming for him. It's more Gruden scheming for bad WRs and a new RB. We've seen him (Carr) go more pass happy, and be successful (see his 12-3 2016 season), so we know he can be more than just 2019 Gruden scheme game manager.

19 minutes ago, stitches said:

So add to this what we would have to spend on him to get him in the first place (IMO they will want at the very least the high second, this is the bare minimum) and what he commands now and what he will command once we trade for him. Him being paid about average means close to nothing when his deal is 3 years old now. When he hits FA he will want an update on that salary and what are you going to do with it? Are you letting him go when he tells you Kirk Cousins is getting 30, Garoppolo is getting over 30, why shouldn't I?  Even if he's again paid average - this takes a ton of your capspace. Whether you pay him 25 or 30 it doesn't really matter, the point is he's getting paid very little less than the great QBs and providing nothing close in terms of play.

Like I said, I'm not pretending he's the second coming. He's a QB that's had 2 pretty darn good seasons on some very bad teams. I'm fine with a 1st or high 2nd. The shorter term contract is a plus IMO. And it's simple, you don't give him a raise if he's not performing top 10. You move on. If he's killing it, then sure, raise and extend. You'd have a couple years to figure that out. 

 

In short, it's a win now, or win soon move. Personally I'd prefer Love or Herbert

[stitches]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

And it's simple, you don't give him a raise if he's not performing top 10. You move on. If he's killing it, then sure, raise and extend. You'd have a couple years to figure that out. 

 

In short, it's a win now, or win soon move. Personally I'd prefer Love or Herbert

The question is what do you do if he's doing what he's doing now or thereabout? 

 

Agree on the last part, I would much prefer we go with a rookie. 

[EastStreet]

37 minutes ago, stitches said:

The question is what do you do if he's doing what he's doing now or thereabout? 

 

Agree on the last part, I would much prefer we go with a rookie. 

Well, right now he's top 10ish in most stats, and over the median in others. I'll take and keep a QB who is simply top 10 in QBR (it takes into account a lot). Goes back to the look at 2000-2018 SB teams commonality (30 of 38 had top 10 QBRs). I think the air yards (attempted) would improve with scheme change (to Reich's). Even as is, he's a whole lot better in almost every way than JB. We could easily build around that (top 10 QBR) if he could remain consistent. 

 

If the question is, what to do about pay in a few years, I'd keep him near where he is (rank) if he stayed the same. Right now, his QBR rank and pay rank, are almost perfectly in line. And that's how I'd love to keep it.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Well, right now he's top 10ish in most stats, and over the median in others. I'll take and keep a QB who is simply top 10 in QBR (it takes into account a lot). Goes back to the look at 2000-2018 SB teams commonality (30 of 38 had top 10 QBRs). I think the air yards (attempted) would improve with scheme change (to Reich's). Even as is, he's a whole lot better in almost every way than JB. We could easily build around that (top 10 QBR) if he could remain consistent. 

 

If the question is, what to do about pay in a few years, I'd keep him near where he is (rank) if he stayed the same. Right now, his QBR rank and pay rank, are almost perfectly in line. And that's how I'd love to keep it.

Fair enough I guess. I disagree about his ranking. I think he's average-ish... meaning... somewhere between 13 and 18 or thereabout. But the ranking is kind of not even that important. It's about what he provides you. He might provide you everything you need and be ranked 20th if it's a particularly good QB year in the league. Or he might be ranked no. 10 and still not be good enough. I guess my point is - what he was doing this year - I am not buying. I don't want to pay big money AND big assets for this type of play. Not sure how fair it is to expect him to be a different/better QB in a different system while keeping high efficiency since this is about as good as he's ever been regardless of system. 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Fair enough I guess. I disagree about his ranking. I think he's average-ish... meaning... somewhere between 13 and 18 or thereabout. But the ranking is kind of not even that important. It's about what he provides you. He might provide you everything you need and be ranked 20th if it's a particularly good QB year in the league. Or he might be ranked no. 10 and still not be good enough. I guess my point is - what he was doing this year - I am not buying. I don't want to pay big money AND big assets for this type of play. Not sure how fair it is to expect him to be a different/better QB in a different system while keeping high efficiency since this is about as good as he's ever been regardless of system. 

Take a look at his 16 season when you have some time. That was on a poor team too.

 

When ranking, I go on ypg, AVG, and QBR...., more on QBR than anything to be honest just because of what it factors in. 

 

Right now, to me at least, he is what his QBR says he is. And it says he's pretty decent, and that's while on a pretty bad team (offensively).

 

Doubt Gruden will take a QB, so focusing on the draft though. 

[Freenyfan102]

Once i saw the name Jordan Love i knew this was going to be a waste of time.

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

5 hours ago, pacolts56 said:

There is no "ideal" to this QB situation..... I'm so used to us sucking for a season and drafting a generational talent that I don't know what to think in these uncharted waters... but here's my best shot....

 

1. Draft Anthony Gordon no earlier than the 3rd round.... we get fresh blood at QB with some semblance of deep ball capability, and without reaching for Love or Hebert, who have plenty of question marks.... at the cost of our 1st round pick.

 

2. Cut Brian Hoyer - KEEP Chad Kelly

 

3. Have Kelly and Gordon duke it out for the #2 spot.

 

4. Open 2020 with Brissett.... and if the offense continues to sputter 2-3 games into the season.... we move on from Jacoby for good.

 

We're kind of in "no man's land" at QB for now.... so Ballard might as well fortify the rest of the roster with our draft picks and NOT reach for a QB in the 1st round or overpay any of the FA retreads. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with everything except the bolded. I believe that you have to at least give it half a season. Kelly or Gordon won’t be ready to play after 2-3 games. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Derek Carr. With Carr we win the AFC South IMO. He would be good behind our Line and Mack running. We can still draft a WR and DT as well.

[pacolts56]

1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I agree with everything except the bolded. I believe that you have to at least give it half a season. Kelly or Gordon won’t be ready to play after 2-3 games. 

Maybe so..... either way it'll all hinge on our W-L record.

 

If we're 0-3 or 1-2 after 3 weeks.... or under your scenario we are 3-5 or worse at mid-season and JB is really and truly struggling with the same issues.... Reich will have given him a fair shot and should go with one of the young guys with JB settled in as a career backup.

 

So IMO, unless some light comes on and he shows surprising improvement, he simply has hit his plateau and nothing short of a 2000 Ravens defense plus a dominant rushing attack can win us a SB with him under center.

 

 

[Breeze]

While I don’t think JB is the long term answer, I think he’s at a level where we don’t need to panic for a replacement just yet.  I’d like for us to use the off-season and pick 13 on pressure up the middle and a WR.  If a guy like Love or Eason is still there at 34, then maybe get them there.  I think our roster is close, and you’ll see much better secondary play with inside pressure along with another year experience under their belts.  You’ll also see an improved JB with better (and healthy) weapons on O.

[lennymoore24]

4 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

Once i saw the name Jordan Love i knew this was going to be a waste of time.

 

Thank you!  I get so tired of people saying Jordan Love.  Why do we want a turn over machine?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

Thank you!  I get so tired of people saying Jordan Love.  Why do we want a turn over machine?

He only had 6 int  the year before.  So he had a bad year because his team was playing from behind a lot because of horrible defense and had to play hero ball.  Let’s not forget how many INT Manning had his rookie season.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He only had 6 int  the year before.  So he had a bad year because his team was playing from behind a lot because of horrible defense and had to play hero ball.  Let’s not forget how many INT Manning had his rookie season.

Yep. Last year Love had 32 TD's and only 6 INT's. His team was entirely different this year. 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He only had 6 int  the year before.  So he had a bad year because his team was playing from behind a lot because of horrible defense and had to play hero ball.  Let’s not forget how many INT Manning had his rookie season.

Seems to me that people are giving him a pass for a horrible season.  The excuses he gets are the same people rage against for JB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Seems to me that people are giving him a pass for a horrible season.  The excuses he gets are the same people rage against for JB. 

I don't agree with the JB hate either. Our WR core was depleted. TY missing games and playing injured, Ebron playing injured and being put on IR, etc.. That + our kicking game cost us 2 or 3 games. There were other reasons besides JB why we finished 2-7. JB also would've beat Miami at 80% health IMO, that game alone was a bad loss. Hoyer was awful.

[coltsva]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't agree with the JB hate either. Our WR core was depleted. TY missing games and playing injured, Ebron playing injured and being put on IR, etc.. That + our kicking game cost us 2 or 3 games. There were other reasons besides JB why we finished 2-7. JB also would've beat Miami at 80% health IMO, that game alone was a bad loss. Hoyer was awful.

It's not hate, it's disappointment. I also don't think you can say Colts win the Miami game if  JB plays. Maybe he plays poorly too. I could just as easily say we beat Jaguars with Hoyer at QB.

 

Yes, there were and always are multiple reasons why you lose a game. But that's when you need your QB to pull it out for you. JB is so bad in the 4th quarter that it puts more pressure on everyone else to perform at a high level to win. Do you think the Colts players have any confidence in JB entering the 4th quarter? I don't.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, coltsva said:

It's not hate, it's disappointment. I also don't think you can say Colts win the Miami game if  JB plays. Maybe he plays poorly too. I could just as easily say we beat Jaguars with Hoyer at QB.

 

Yes, there were and always are multiple reasons why you lose a game. But that's when you need your QB to pull it out for you. JB is so bad in the 4th quarter that it puts more pressure on everyone else to perform at a high level to win. Do you think the Colts players have any confidence in JB entering the 4th quarter? I don't.

I think at this point we have had the same posters for a month now post over and over how JB sucks. They are even talented and create new threads to do so. I often wonder do you guys enjoy this? I am posting less and less because of this. 

[pacolts56]

18 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He only had 6 int  the year before.  So he had a bad year because his team was playing from behind a lot because of horrible defense and had to play hero ball.  Let’s not forget how many INT Manning had his rookie season.

All the more reason to NOT reach for him at #13 overall and instead target one of the premier 3-techs.

 

I can live with Jordan Love as perhaps our 3rd round selection.... but I want no part of him in Round 1 or 2, and I think he's being wildly overvalued on the Forum all because Ballard showed up at a Utah St. game.

 

Here is one excerpt... and a fairly common assessment of Jordan Love.... and a link with game tape...

 

Jordan Love’s biggest issue is with reading defenses and going through progressions to find open receivers.

Love clearly has the arm and the production, even if not this season, to be a top prospect at the quarterback position. However, his game isn’t perfect or he’d be the unanimous first overall pick. For Love, the bugaboo is with the mental parts of the game.

The tape shows some cracks in Love’s game where reading defenses is concerned. In particular, he tends to read which receiver he wants to throw to, and then targets that player no matter what happens post-snap. That has resulted in incompletions and interceptions more often than anyone would like in 2019.

 

https://withthefirstpick.com/2019/12/02/2020-nfl-draft-jordan-love-talented-but-flawed-quarterback/3/

 

[MikeCurtis]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Derek Carr. With Carr we win the AFC South IMO. He would be good behind our Line and Mack running. We can still draft a WR and DT as well.

Derek Carr is not a free agent

 

He will cost us some picks

 

But......  I think if a deal could be done that we dont give up huge capitol, I would absolutly consider.....

 

But again..... they will want something for him

[MikeCurtis]

17 minutes ago, pacolts56 said:

All the more reason to NOT reach for him at #13 overall and instead target one of the premier 3-techs.

 

I can live with Jordan Love as perhaps our 3rd round selection.... but I want no part of him in Round 1 or 2, and I think he's being wildly overvalued on the Forum all because Ballard showed up at a Utah St. game.

 

Here is one excerpt... and a fairly common assessment of Jordan Love.... and a link with game tape...

 

Jordan Love’s biggest issue is with reading defenses and going through progressions to find open receivers.

Love clearly has the arm and the production, even if not this season, to be a top prospect at the quarterback position. However, his game isn’t perfect or he’d be the unanimous first overall pick. For Love, the bugaboo is with the mental parts of the game.

The tape shows some cracks in Love’s game where reading defenses is concerned. In particular, he tends to read which receiver he wants to throw to, and then targets that player no matter what happens post-snap. That has resulted in incompletions and interceptions more often than anyone would like in 2019.

 

https://withthefirstpick.com/2019/12/02/2020-nfl-draft-jordan-love-talented-but-flawed-quarterback/3/

 

Love will probably be over-drafted

 

He needs to show very well in the upcoming opportunities

 

If he does well he could actually go in the first

 

But..... I agree with you, he has holes that Burrows and Tua, and maybe Herbert, do not

 

 

[Yoshinator]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think at this point we have had the same posters for a month now post over and over how JB sucks. They are even talented and create new threads to do so. I often wonder do you guys enjoy this? I am posting less and less because of this. 

I don't enjoy it tbh. Just frustrated with the Luck situation, the 2019 result of Brissett, and the fact that we're screwed at QB for the near future. I'm always positive about Ballard, Reich, and most of the rest of the team. Brissett just shoulders nearly 100% of the blame for our failures to me. Sorry.

[pacolts56]

9 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Love will probably be over-drafted

 

He needs to show very well in the upcoming opportunities

 

If he does well he could actually go in the first

 

But..... I agree with you, he has holes that Burrows and Tua, and maybe Herbert, do not

 

 

And you're probably right.... as many QBs are over-drafted.

 

I just think that at #13.... you HAVE to get a Day 1 impact starter....and we've so rarely had a shot at an impact DT3 over the years that we should jump all over Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw if they are there.

 

We have a pretty nice young LB corps that would be exponentially better with a stout pair of DTs in front of them.