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On 1/9/2020 at 4:15 PM, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

All I say is
Anthony Gordon is 6’4” 210 lbs

Everyones beloved Jordon Love 6’4” 225 lbs

 

Not to much difference. A little time in the training room with the Colts and who knows what he will look like. 

 

At Senior Bowl

Gordon was 6'2.2" 199lbs

Love was 6'3.5" 223lbs

 

So roughly 24 lbs different and an 1inch

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/senior-bowl-weigh-in-results

 

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I personally don't like Gordon, I think he doesn't have the arm strength for the NFL. I've looked at his throws over 20 yards and they look bad

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37 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

I personally don't like Gordon, I think he doesn't have the arm strength for the NFL. I've looked at his throws over 20 yards and they look bad

here's what Crabbs said about him (draft network)

 

Quote

Arm Accuracy - He's got some terrific flashes on deeper routes and when he's in rhythm within the pocket. Lapses are more a byproduct of broken down throwing platform. He's got arm to throw from varied slots and release points and throw accurately and with needed touch. 

 

In short, he may not have a cannon, but he's got enough juice to make good throws deep.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

here's what Crabbs said about him (draft network)

 

 

In short, he may not have a cannon, but he's got enough juice to make good throws deep.

 

He's definitely more of an expert than me, but he just doesn't pass the eye ball test for me when I see him throw intermediate to deep passes, usually the WR is wide open so its okay for the ball to get there slow, but being that open won't happen in the NFL.

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9 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

He's definitely more of an expert than me, but he just doesn't pass the eye ball test for me when I see him throw intermediate to deep passes, usually the WR is wide open so its okay for the ball to get there slow, but being that open won't happen in the NFL.


Yep...this is where I am at. I am certainly not an expert either...but I do know that NFL players are faster, more athletic and longer than college players...and the windows to fit the ball in are smaller and close faster. I can definitely see potential issues with that for Gordon. Similarly...I can see his deep passes getting swatted away or worse. 
 

I don’t care if it’s not the only thing that matters...but I want a QB that has both arm strength and arm talent.
 

 

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18 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Yeah we went through this earlier. This clean pockets are also a by product of him reads the field quickly and having a quick release. 

From the tape I've watched, Gordon's quick release and speed in reading the field have nothing to do with his consistently clean pocket. His pocket being that clean actually seemed to be a bit of a detriment to him, as he tended to stand up straight and flat-footed, getting completely lazy with his footwork.

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On 1/28/2020 at 4:19 PM, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2020-senior-bowl-justin-herbert-wins-mvp-but-anthony-gordon-steals-the-show/amp/
 

I think people are pigeon holding him because of the air raid he comes from. That would be a mistake (Mahomes- Texas Tech, Wentz- NDSU, Favre- Southern Miss, Jimmy G- Eastern Illinois). He has amazing touch, can read the field, is efficient and can throw from every arm angle. 
 

I think he is a gun slinger and he plays like Favre and Mahomes. I would take him at 34 and not look back. Sit him for a year and let him develop. 

I agree completly he is one step faster than the rest of class. Wish he was a little more bulked up but hey wilson and brees do just fine.

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17 hours ago, Shive said:

From the tape I've watched, Gordon's quick release and speed in reading the field have nothing to do with his consistently clean pocket. His pocket being that clean actually seemed to be a bit of a detriment to him, as he tended to stand up straight and flat-footed, getting completely lazy with his footwork.

His footwork is a concern.

 

I've mentioned many times on this forum, I think Gordon is the best pure passer in this draft.  But he does have his limitations.

 

His footwork as mentioned

His arm strength - I think he has a strong enough arm for the NFL but it looks to be just above the minimum threshhold for the NFL.

His size - No 2 ways about it, at less than 200lbs he is very light for an NFL quarterback

Only 1 year as a starter.

 

Because of all of those things, I think Gordon can be had in the 3rd round perhaps the 4th.  But I also think he has the most potential to be a Matt Stafford, Carson Palmer type NFL QB.  Meaning someone who can lead a team and throw and play well but will never get into that elite category. (I think Burrow and Herbert both have a chance to be elite)

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I'm not worried about his size.  Several smaller modern day QB's have had success such as Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Brett Favre, etc.  All were 6-2 or shorter.  MUCH shorter in the case of Wilson and Brees.  It's about accuracy, reading defenses, throwing WR's open, anticipating routes, audibling out of bad situations, sliding protections, escaping the rush, etc.  Can he do that, or most of those things well.  THAT is what I want to know.

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12 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I'm not worried about his size.  Several smaller modern day QB's have had success such as Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Brett Favre, etc.  All were 6-2 or shorter.  MUCH shorter in the case of Wilson and Brees.  It's about accuracy, reading defenses, throwing WR's open, anticipating routes, audibling out of bad situations, sliding protections, escaping the rush, etc.  Can he do that, or most of those things well.  THAT is what I want to know.

Its not the height, its the lack of body mass.  All of those mentioned were just naturally heavier. 

 

Even Jake Fromm has more mass.  He's listed at 6'2" but looks shorter, in part, because he's stocky. Listed at 220 lbs.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its not the height, its the lack of body mass.  All of those mentioned were just naturally heavier. 

 

Even Jake Fromm has more mass.  He's listed at 6'2" but looks shorter, in part, because he's stocky.

 

Yep, RW was real stocky and built at 205 lbs or something like that. He has probably put on 10 lbs of muscle now:

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/russell-wilson?id=2532975

 

The same 205 lbs can be built differently across individuals. 

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7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its not the height, its the lack of body mass.  All of those mentioned were just naturally heavier. 

 

Even Jake Fromm has more mass.  He's listed at 6'2" but looks shorter, in part, because he's stocky. Listed at 220 lbs.

So let's get him to the buffet table, get him with the right strength training coach, and get him up 20 lbs or so.  It really wouldn't be that hard and MIGHT even increase his arm strength.

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2 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

So let's get him to the buffet table, get him with the right strength training coach, and get him up 20 lbs or so.  It really wouldn't be that hard and MIGHT even increase his arm strength.

Maybe.  People have different frames.  Like dogs, some medium height dogs have the frame of a Rotweiler, and others like a Greyhound.  

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1 hour ago, AZColt11 said:

I'm not worried about his size.  Several smaller modern day QB's have had success such as Russell Wilson, Drew Brees, Mike Vick, Brett Favre, etc.  All were 6-2 or shorter.  MUCH shorter in the case of Wilson and Brees.  It's about accuracy, reading defenses, throwing WR's open, anticipating routes, audibling out of bad situations, sliding protections, escaping the rush, etc.  Can he do that, or most of those things well.  THAT is what I want to know.

It's not his height, 6'2 is fine for an NFL QB.  But at 199lbs... that is a bit light.

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44 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It's not his height, 6'2 is fine for an NFL QB.  But at 199lbs... that is a bit light.

Ever take a good look at Joe Montana? Especially when he first came into the league? Smaller than Gordon. And he played when the QB had no protection. Gordon isn't too small. And they can beef him up over the next year in the weight room. A year and a half later, at the beginning of the 2021 season: 6'2.5", 210 lbs.  That's not a midget. 

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7 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Ever take a good look at Joe Montana? Especially when he first came into the league? Smaller than Gordon. And he played when the QB had no protection. Gordon isn't too small. And they can beef him up over the next year in the weight room. A year and a half later, at the beginning of the 2021 season: 6'2.5", 210 lbs.  That's not a midget. 

Montana was listed at 6'2, 200lbs, so not smaller.

 

Also at the time when Montana came into the league there were fewer than 12-300+ lbs players in the NFL (I heard that during a game one time but here is an article talking about NFL size).  in 2010 there were 532 players over 300lbs (http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/5443459)

 

Even beast like Mike Singletary were 6'0 230lbs. 

 

So Montana's weight 41 years ago is not a legitimate comparison.

 

But again, I'm a fan of Gordon's and a fan of the Colts drafting Gordon but to act like being under 200lbs is not a negative is not looking at reality.

 

 

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I was listening to a podcast (I think it was on Locked on Colts) and a guy said Anthony Gordon had a noodle for an arm.  He said he would worry about any throw that was more than 20 yards.  I haven't seen this myself, but that is definitely a concern if true.

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25 minutes ago, chrisbeldridge said:

I was listening to a podcast (I think it was on Locked on Colts) and a guy said Anthony Gordon had a noodle for an arm.  He said he would worry about any throw that was more than 20 yards.  I haven't seen this myself, but that is definitely a concern if true.

 

He did have a good throw from 25 yards on out that Chase Claypool could not come down with at the Senior Bowl. Hey, there is this guy who made his living with death by a thousand paper cuts. 70-80% of the time, it felt like Brady rarely threw beyond 20 yards but was deadly accurate hitting his pass catchers in stride for YAC. 

 

At worst, you get a Chad Pennington, who still had a successful career in the NFL, by investing a 3rd rounder on Gordon.

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44 minutes ago, chrisbeldridge said:

I was listening to a podcast (I think it was on Locked on Colts) and a guy said Anthony Gordon had a noodle for an arm.  He said he would worry about any throw that was more than 20 yards.  I haven't seen this myself, but that is definitely a concern if true.

It's not true.  See @chad72 post above.  He doesn't have a monster arm but his arm is strong enough for the NFL.

 

Besides, arm strength is not one of the 7 criteria of successful NFL quarters

 

Quote

I posted another article in a thread that had 5 of the best minds in football saying mental toughness is the #1 trait, accuracy was number2 and arm strength was not one of the top 5.  I will try to find that again.

 

The litmus test I use... can a QB throw a 15 yard out pattern from hash mark to the opposite sideline.  If they can make that throw from then they have a strong enough arm to play in the NFL.

 

And I think Gordon showed that arm strength in the Senior Bowl when he scrambled to his left and then threw a 25 yard dart with perfect placement at the back of the endzone.  Much like Love's long pass, if the receiver had played it correctly it would have been a TD but he jump up and back instead of just up.

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Montana was listed at 6'2, 200lbs, so not smaller.

 

Also at the time when Montana came into the league there were fewer than 12-300+ lbs players in the NFL (I heard that during a game one time but here is an article talking about NFL size).  in 2010 there were 532 players over 300lbs (http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/5443459)

 

Even beast like Mike Singletary were 6'0 230lbs. 

 

So Montana's weight 41 years ago is not a legitimate comparison.

 

But again, I'm a fan of Gordon's and a fan of the Colts drafting Gordon but to act like being under 200lbs is not a negative is not looking at reality.

 

 

Even though he played a few years ago, my point in comparing Montana's size to Gordon is that one of the all time greats was about the exact same size. And Gordon hasn't even hit an NFL weight room yet. So IMO his size will be fine. Its the discussion about the arm strength that seems much more relevant. 

 

On that note,  I look at Gordon zipping the football with that wrist flick of his and he looks like he delivers the ball with pace and accuracy up to 25 yards out. This guy doesn't have a noodle arm. No, he can't throw it out of the stadium, but in today's NFL, that isn't required. I like the kid for the Colts, and it looks like he can be had in the 2nd round right now. 

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3 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Montana was listed at 6'2, 200lbs, so not smaller.

 

Also at the time when Montana came into the league there were fewer than 12-300+ lbs players in the NFL (I heard that during a game one time but here is an article talking about NFL size).  in 2010 there were 532 players over 300lbs (http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/nfl/id/5443459)

 

Even beast like Mike Singletary were 6'0 230lbs. 

 

So Montana's weight 41 years ago is not a legitimate comparison.

 

But again, I'm a fan of Gordon's and a fan of the Colts drafting Gordon but to act like being under 200lbs is not a negative is not looking at reality.

 

 

Oh, and one other comparison. Montana lasted until the 3rd round of the draft because scouts and so called experts thought he lacked a strong enough arm. Now please, I'm not comparing Montana and Gordon. But there are some striking physical similarities. 

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15 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Oh, and one other comparison. Montana lasted until the 3rd round of the draft because scouts and so called experts thought he lacked a strong enough arm. Now please, I'm not comparing Montana and Gordon. But there are some striking physical similarities. 

Again, I'm a fan of Gordon and I would be willing to bet that if we could look back I would be the first person on the forum to mention Gordon as a possibility.

 

You don't need to try to convince me that is negatives outweigh his positives.

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41 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Again, I'm a fan of Gordon and I would be willing to bet that if we could look back I would be the first person on the forum to mention Gordon as a possibility.

 

You don't need to try to convince me that is negatives outweigh his positives.

Yup, I was the first, https://forums.colts.com/search/?&q="anthony gordon"&page=4&search_and_or=or&sortby=relevancy

 

And I meant his negatives don't outweigh his positives.

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3 hours ago, chrisbeldridge said:

I was listening to a podcast (I think it was on Locked on Colts) and a guy said Anthony Gordon had a noodle for an arm.  He said he would worry about any throw that was more than 20 yards.  I haven't seen this myself, but that is definitely a concern if true.

Watch his tape

 

He is hitting guys longer than 20 yards in more than a few,  the ball still has juice

 

His release is very fast and possibly the quickest of the top 5 QBs

 

He is also very mobile

 

He IS a prospect that needs some time to bulk up and add strength 

 

But......

 

We need to come away with at least one QB to try and develop

 

It may be Love, Eason, or Gordon

 

I would be happy with any of these 3 as long as we don’t give up the farm to get them

 

 

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3 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Watch his tape

 

He is hitting guys longer than 20 yards in more than a few,  the ball still has juice

 

His release is very fast and possibly the quickest of the top 5 QBs

 

He is also very mobile

 

He IS a prospect that needs some time to bulk up and add strength 

 

But......

 

We need to come away with at least one QB to try and develop

 

It may be Love, Eason, or Gordon

 

I would be happy with any of these 3 as long as we don’t give up the farm to get them

 

 

Amen to this. I agree. The Colts could find a gem beyond the Big 3. And honestly, if they are going to find a QB and not mortgage the future, they won't be in play for Tua or Herbert. 

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The guys from Strong Opinion sports, who was really negative on him, recently posted another video and guess what, Gordon is changing his mind. 
 

 

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7 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

The guys from Strong Opinion sports, who was really negative on him, recently posted another video and guess what, Gordon is changing his mind. 
 

 

I watched this earlier. He mentioned he didn’t like his leadership due to not being a vocal leader in his earlier video. One of the things ballard said was leadership comes in different ways and he doesn’t need a vocal rah rah guy.

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