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twfish

I don't think Love will last until 13

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2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The D is horrendous.  We need 2 starting DT's.  Is the secondary going to improve or so we need to draft a corner? Are we going to need a new LT? We could also use a DE.  This D was bad the last half of the season.  I thought if anything the D would get better as the year progressed as they were young.   They didn't. It was almost epic bad they were.

The defense has holes no doubt but we’ve got Turay coming back who was outstanding before he got hurt.  Rock really should be better, maybe Ballard spends big on a young D-line player (he’s on record saying it’s a position that needs an upgrade) and remember that a good offense that moves the ball more consistently will help the defense by keeping them off the field.  This tends to get overlooked.  Got to get that QB situation fixed and that will indirectly improve the D. 

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

The D is horrendous.  We need 2 starting DT's.  Is the secondary going to improve or so we need to draft a corner? Are we going to need a new LT? We could also use a DE.  This D was bad the last half of the season.  I thought if anything the D would get better as the year progressed as they were young.   They didn't. It was almost epic bad they were.

The defense has holes no doubt but we’ve got Turay coming back who was outstanding before he got hurt.  Rock really should be better, maybe Ballard spends big on a young D-line player (he’s on record saying it’s a position that needs an upgrade) and remember that a good offense that moves the ball more consistently will help the defense by keeping them off the field.  This tends to get overlooked.  Got to get that QB situation fixed and that will indirectly improve the D. 

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can see Jordan Love going top 10 but remember the interviewing is a huge part of getting drafted. So it is tough to call.

Yeah. Remember Kizer falling even though he had some similar high end traits. He has to win teams and sell himself to them when they meet him. 

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Long time before the draft. I wouldn't get too caught up in positioning and ranking until after the combine. The SR Bowl on the 25th will include Love, Gordon, Herbert, Hurts, etc..

 

I'm not surprised with Love trending up though. I think you'll see Gordon trend up a bit too.

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7 hours ago, twfish said:

QB's dominate the draft every single year and I'm not sure why we think this year is going to be any different. Daniel Jones who IMHO is less of a prospect went 6 overall. A similar prospect in Josh Allen went 7 overall. He will likely do very well in his pro day and during the combine. He is the most talented QB in the draft, not to take away from the Burrow, Tua and Herbert but none of them match him Athletically IMHO. Worse yet there are plenty of teams out there this year needing a QB and plenty right ahead of us. Cincy, maybe Detroit, Miami, for now L.A, I wouldn't rule out Carolina, and possibly Oakland. Thats 6 Candidates before us looking at 4 prospects. I don't like those odds. I myself am just as guilty since during my mock i had us taking him in the 20's. Thankfully there are some decent options a Free Agents QBs this year and I am hoping L.A picks up Brady and then would be open to trading IF Love is our QB. I am going to start studying his tape a ton more but looking at stats if he would have been in the draft last year i think he's looked at to be the second QB taken in the draft. 

I think with the success of the mobile QB's around the league you are drinking the Love cool aid! I dont think hes as good has you think. Someone might reach! I wouldn't touch him at least to the 2nd round. 17 INT's scare the % out of me!!

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Would not select any QB other than Burrow... in the first or second round. Too many holes...and our 3 draft picks can fill a few of them. 

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I hope he's gone or we don't think he's worth it. I'm just not seeing what the hype is about. He has NFL traits, but doesn't look like a 13th overall pick kind of talent, and that's even with the understanding it's sometimes worth maybe reaching for a QB. There is a lot of offseason left and he could win me over, but right now I'd only want him if we trade back or if he somehow lasted to round 2.

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32 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I think with the success of the mobile QB's around the league you are drinking the Love cool aid! I dont think hes as good has you think. Someone might reach! I wouldn't touch him at least to the 2nd round. 17 INT's scare the % out of me!!

Because of the success of a few NFL QBs, the media/pundits are going to overrate mobility all the way up to the draft.  They will ride the momentum of the trendiness.  Some GMs will too.  

 

Not that Love is based on that, but it is a component of his game and he will get elevated because of it.

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I kind of agree. I just have this feeling Jordan Love will light it up at the Senior Bowl and shift the conversation to whether he is the 3rd best QB in the draft rather than Herbert. 

 

At the Senior Bowl game, in one week its hard for a QB to come in with brand new receivers and plays. The ones who shine are usually the more natural playmaking QBs and Love is certainly that. He will play better than Herbert in Mobile, I bet that.

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15 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

At the Senior Bowl

 

Ballard's Super Bowl.

 

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2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

True, I think he got carried away with emphasizing the QB aspect that he flash backed to the Peyton years :). If you have that very good to elite QB, you have a puncher's chance every time. He does not see it in JB, that was the eventual point.

 

Even, for all the 12 game seasons we had, we had only 1 SB to show for it. Luck had 2 11-5 seasons, in one of which we went to the AFCCG. 11-12 wins is the sweet spot for a possible Top 2 seeding, and thus greater chances of making it to the SB. 

 

Let us put it this way, a very good/elite QB that can put the team on his back when the supporting cast has a few bad games can make the difference of 2-3 games every season, IMO. That would be the difference between a 7-9 win team to a 10-12 win team consistently. If you are good enough to get double digit wins every year with a marquee QB, you have a shot in the playoffs, IMO. We just do not have one on our roster right now after Luck's retirement, that is the bottom line. 

Let me ask, was Flacco a marquee QB?  For even one season?  That's not a trick question.  I'm sincerely interested in how you think about that.

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If the consensus top three QB’s are off the board before our pick I think Ballard would pass on Love at 13 for a blue chip prospect and draft a Qb with the 34th pick. This would be my ideal draft. 

 

13. Javon Kinlaw DT , 6’6 310 lbs, South Carolina 

34. Jacob Eason QB, 6’6 235 lbs, Washington 

44. Brandon Aiyuk WR, 6’1 195 lbs, Arizona State

75. Matt Peart OT, 6’7 305 lbs, Uconn

112. Brycen Hopkins TE, 6’5 250 lbs, Purdue

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

If the consensus top three QB’s are off the board before our pick I think Ballard would pass on Love at 13 for a blue chip prospect and draft a Qb with the 34th pick. This would be my ideal draft. 

 

13. Javon Kinlaw DT , 6’6 310 lbs, South Carolina 

34. Jacob Eason QB, 6’6 235 lbs, Washington 

44. Brandon Aiyuk WR, 6’1 195 lbs, Arizona State

75. Matt Peart OT, 6’7 305 lbs, Uconn

112. Brycen Hopkins TE, 6’5 250 lbs, Purdue

 

 

 

The consensus top three? By who. Ballard might have Love ahead of Herbert.  Teams can have the QB ranked different then the public or fans. Now if he loves Anthony Gordon that would be dumb to take him at 13. But out of the top five teams will have them rated different.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Because of the success of a few NFL QBs, the media/pundits are going to overrate mobility all the way up to the draft.  They will ride the momentum of the trendiness.  Some GMs will too.  

 

Not that Love is based on that, but it is a component of his game and he will get elevated because of it.

I think with players getting faster on defense guys like Mahomes, Wilson, Watson are needed. To me that is what mobile is. Just being able to extend plays out of the pocket.  Jackson is mobile but he is a run first QB. Don’t think teams need to go that far.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Because of the success of a few NFL QBs, the media/pundits are going to overrate mobility all the way up to the draft.  They will ride the momentum of the trendiness.  Some GMs will too.  

 

Not that Love is based on that, but it is a component of his game and he will get elevated because of it.

Yup agreed that still doesn't make him good! And do so at your own peril and potential job loss if your a GM! I would damn make sure I was right if I took him in the 1st round.  Someone might fall in love with Jalen Hurts too.

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8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think with players getting faster on defense guys like Mahomes, Wilson, Watson are needed. To me that is what mobile is. Just being able to extend plays out of the pocket.  Jackson is mobile but he is a run first QB. Don’t think teams need to go that far.

There have always been mobile QBs in the NFL.  Heck, Archie Manning was a play extender in his time.  Fran Tarkenton.  Steve Young. Roger Staubach.

 

The dynamics of football are still the same.  Improve the oline, improve the running game, get the ball out faster; and that offsets the pass rush.  The first two we have.  The last one we need to get better at.

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I am a big as fan of Love as anyone

 

Do we trade 2 number 1 picks to move to 8 ? Three?

 

Ouch

 

At some point, you have to back out

 

If a run on QBs occurs I say let the draft play out

 

After a TON of research on the Love, and after interviews and discussions 

AND after his pro day and combine.....

 

If he is who CB is in love with..... make the pick.

 

If he goes in top 8...... let him go

 

I would rather bring in Eason, Gordon, or even Fromm with a later pick, than trade all the picks away for a 8th pick that is a roll of the dice

 

25-50% hit ratio (dependant on how you calc)

 

Thats a BIG risk for such a payout

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

So who do you have pegged for 2021 if  JB bombs, excluding Fields and Lawrence?

I don't know the draft class in 2021.  I doubt we will b crappy enough to picking high enough for either of those 2. I am just foe giving him one more chance.  Team regains it health and let's see what he can do with some healthy talent.  

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6 hours ago, twfish said:

This team went to the divisional round last year. They had a top 10 defense last year and a top 5 offense last year. We have one of the best o-lines in the NFL, one of the best line backer duos in the league. The team only got better from the team last year talent wise. As a matter of fact the team started out 5-2 and where playing great until teams began stacking the box, limiting our run game and forcing Brissett to pass and he could not get it done, plain and simple. QB is our biggest need and it's not even close to any other position. You want to see Jacoby for another year that's fine, draft his replacement now and get him use to the NFL and play him in 2021. This isn't a thing to just push off for another year and shope for more QB's next year.

I diagree.  We need talent and it will most likely involve a trade up to get the guy. I don't think the team can afford to give away picks at this tine

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PS for all u people who just want us to move on .  Look at last year's qb draft.  Are any of the qbs worth the draft capital where they were picked? Manziel, Darnold, Allan, Rosen and Lamar.  Lamar is the best value at 31, the others....meh.  For all u people thst want to move up, be very careful.  U reach and miss on a guy say like Love and it will set your franchise back years . We haf Luck and Manning, we r both spoiled and lazy. We want that qb to come in save the day. I want us to build a team and slot in a qb

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That’s why Ballard’s evaluating him heavily. He’s preparing to put a grade on him and a spot where he is comfortable drafting him (and he’ll do the same with several others). I think he (reportedly) started with him knowing he would be within range and because he would be at the senior bowl which Ballard has been outspoken about his love for. Executives and scouts have practically free access all week during the senior bowl which this front office puts an extremely high importance on. 

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4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can see Jordan Love going top 10 but remember the interviewing is a huge part of getting drafted. So it is tough to call.


exactly. There’s a TON of offseason left to see how these qb’s fluctuate in the draft talk. Combine, senior bowl, pro day workouts. Some will fall, even rank. Some will shoot up fast. It’s a process. 

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46 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

PS for all u people who just want us to move on .  Look at last year's qb draft.  Are any of the qbs worth the draft capital where they were picked? Manziel, Darnold, Allan, Rosen and Lamar.  Lamar is the best value at 31, the others....meh.  For all u people thst want to move up, be very careful.  U reach and miss on a guy say like Love and it will set your franchise back years . We haf Luck and Manning, we r both spoiled and lazy. We want that qb to come in save the day. I want us to build a team and slot in a qb

Way to early to call darnold and Allen a miss.

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7 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

So who do you have pegged for 2021 if  JB bombs, excluding Fields and Lawrence?

Kelly? :stir::) IDK.

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News to everyone. Any QB taken in the draft is a risk. There is no guarantee even on Burrow. The good thing is rookie contracts aren’t like they use to be as far as money.

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8 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Young qbs fail if u don't build around them.  Dungy said years ago that exact thing.  U need the pieces so it doesn't put to much pressure on them.  Continue to build the D.  Add some play makers. Now give Brissett another year and let's see  these guys develop.  If Brissett sucks, then draft a guy in 2021 as he is coming to a talented team. Just my thought.

Hoping if Brissett is the guy after 2 seasons as a starter is a losing mentality. If you have a QB rated high on your draft board, you better find a way to get him.
 

If JB does indeed suck again this upcoming year; we are going to be another 2-3 years out from a SB waiting for a rookie QB to develop(other than the two mentioned). That's my biggest issue.


As for the 2021 QB class, Lawrence and Fields will both be gone... and there isn't a whole lot of options past those two. 

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Colts want to keep their picks. If Love gets drafted before 13th, go to plan B and select Fromm, he's worth it. 

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I will continue to reiterate this because a lot of people are missing this point - any position player you pick has pretty much the same chance of busting at the respective draft slot. There is some slight variance but the success rate for almost all of them hover around 50% and noone is a surefire thing. Not the QBs, not the WRs, not the DTs. If I'm not mistaken OL actually has the highest success rate and lowest bust rate early in the draft, although those numbers are a bit skewed because of the way that most methods calculate busts and the nature of the OLine positions.

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Amount of QBs drafted in round 1 since 2012:

 

12' -4

13'- 1 (WORST QB class ever btw)

14'- 3

15'- 2

16'- 3

17'- 3

18'- 5

19'- 3

 

The average would seem to indicate 3 QBs. I get that QBs are king, but I feel like every year we overreact about a bunch of QBs going early. It's not out of the question, but I'm not counting on it.

 

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14 hours ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I think with the success of the mobile QB's around the league you are drinking the Love cool aid! I dont think hes as good has you think. Someone might reach! I wouldn't touch him at least to the 2nd round. 17 INT's scare the % out of me!!

Love's mobility is not what draws me to him. He throws a good ball, accurate has excellent touch and stays poised in the pocket. In 2018 he went 32 td's and only 6 ints then he lost nearly every single starter on offense and played hero ball. Dont scout stats, scout film. 

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11 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

PS for all u people who just want us to move on .  Look at last year's qb draft.  Are any of the qbs worth the draft capital where they were picked? Manziel, Darnold, Allan, Rosen and Lamar.  Lamar is the best value at 31, the others....meh.  For all u people thst want to move up, be very careful.  U reach and miss on a guy say like Love and it will set your franchise back years . We haf Luck and Manning, we r both spoiled and lazy. We want that qb to come in save the day. I want us to build a team and slot in a qb

I think you need to do some homework....... Last years QB's are Murray, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins. I am confident those teams would take the same people again. 2018 Draft in Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and then Lamar at 32.. The only one that looks to be a bust is Rosen but all other QB's would have taken us into the playoffs this year and would have been a massive Improvement. I'm not sure why your making the comparison of Mayfield to Manziel because that is incredibly ignorant. One couldn't break a sack and the other broke the rookie touchdown record last year and he didn't start the first couple games. 

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Baker, darnold, and Allen. Who are the other two in 2018. That seems like a lot of QB in round one. Of course it always matters how many QB needy teams are out there. This year there seems to be a lot.

Rosen and.... Lamar? 

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Rosen and.... Lamar? 

Thanks I edited my post. I realized that after I re read the post. 

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I think the amount of QB needy teams is a little higher this year which could effect how many get drafted in the first round. 

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1 hour ago, twfish said:

I think you need to do some homework....... Last years QB's are Murray, Daniel Jones, and Dwayne Haskins. I am confident those teams would take the same people again. 2018 Draft in Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and then Lamar at 32.. The only one that looks to be a bust is Rosen but all other QB's would have taken us into the playoffs this year and would have been a massive Improvement. I'm not sure why your making the comparison of Mayfield to Manziel because that is incredibly ignorant. One couldn't break a sack and the other broke the rookie touchdown record last year and he didn't start the first couple games. 

Sorry wrong year.  However an have no idea what u r referring to with regards to Manziel vs Mayfield. I simply got the make incorrect

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think the amount of QB needy teams is a little higher this year which could effect how many get drafted in the first round. 

I agree, last several years we had settled into a period without too many teams looking for their franchise QBs - most either had theirs or had young players they were content developing and it seems like we've made a full revolution around the track and we are back at a time when it looks like a ton of teams are looking for new franchise QBs and several others have aging QBs that they might be willing to put a young promising QB behind. 

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19 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Sorry wrong year.  However an have no idea what u r referring to with regards to Manziel vs Mayfield. I simply got the make incorrect

Many people made the comp to the two early on when he got drafted and didn't know if you were one of those people and didn't like Mayfield so sorry for the confusion on that part.

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Matt Rhule played against Will Grier while at Baylor. He said in August he thought Grier was pro ready. Now he has him on his team maybe they won’t take a QB.  Plus they do still have Cam.

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