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OL Regression...

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1 minute ago, chad72 said:

 

He played just the last game, 1 game of his rookie season and showed plenty of potential for Andy Reid to feel good about the off season he will have with Mahomes after the 2017 season.

I'll take your word for it. I thought he played 4 games, but you're probably right. You're a legit poster, so I trust you.

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Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Then we're essentially tanking another year, we'll have to pay the 2017 class before the rookie steps onto the field, and there will be no point watching the 2020 season. If the Colts FO doesn't care in that scenario, why should I? 

 

Here's the deal. I hope everyone enjoys watching their favorite team every Sunday, but I don't want the Colts' front office making football decisions on the basis of whether you're going to watch. 

 

I'm not pulling for them to throw away a season. I'm only saying that, whoever the veteran QB is, he's only a bridge for us to get to the next guy, who I hope we draft this April. And once we draft that guy, I hope the staff has a plan for getting him ready asap, and if he's ready in September, awesome. 

 

But if he's not, I'm not bailing on the 2020 season just because JB (or some also-ran who has the distinct advantage of not being JB, if nothing else) is the Week 1 starter. And that's because drafting and developing a new QB is about much more than the 2020 season.

 

I personally don't tune out on my team when they aren't good, then come back when things are looking up. That's not my style. And if I could survive every snap of Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky in 2011, I can survive another year of JB. But that's just me. If you or anyone else is gonna bail on 2020 because you're sick of JB, that's your prerogative. I just hope the front office isn't basing their personnel strategy on the whims of impatient and impulsive fans. 

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4 hours ago, Myles said:

The O-line is great.   Wasting it with Brissett.   

Guess it's karma for wasting Luck...

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4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I get wanting better QB play.  Everyone wants it including Reich, Ballard, and, Irsay.  However, simply wanting someone to be better than Jacoby doesn’t automatically make alternatives better.  That’s why Jacoby was the starter all year he was the best of what the Colts had in the Colts brass eyes (whose is the only ones opinions that matter on this).  
 

I am sure the Colts will look to improve the QB play this off-season that will probably be in the form of a draft pick because I don’t think the Colts are going to view any of the QBs available as a significant upgrade over Jacoby.  The rookie is going to be drafted on what he CAN be not what he is.  So it’s very possibly that Jacoby is still the best QB on the roster at the start of the season which could lead to him starting.  Once the coaches feel the rookie has surpassed Jacoby or the season is lost they will probably make a change.  
 

One thing I think fans need to take a step back from and understand is that the Colts are not in the anyone but Jacoby mindset.  I understand fans who might feel that way but if we are trying to predict what the Colts are going to do I think we need to put personal feelings aside and not try to project what we want to happen on to what is realistically likely to happen.   

On the contrary though, the FO may also like some of the QB's in the draft more than us. They have a lot more info than us. We may be surprised and they could take someone like Fromm or Eason.

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5 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll take your word for it. I thought he played 4 games, but you're probably right. You're a legit poster, so I trust you.

 

Yeah, the Chiefs had locked up the #4 seed in 2017, so Mahomes got his first start in week 17 (game 16):

 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article191776239.html

 

He did really well for his first start, so well that Andy decided he could move on from Alex Smith:

 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article192410684.html

 

Signs of things to come with Mahomes (taken from above article in 2017):

 

Miller said that phrase — “great quarterback” — three times when talking about Mahomes, and no wonder, as the 6-foot-2, 225-pound rookie completed 22 of 35 passes for 284 yards while showing the ability to consistently scramble away from pressure and deliver strong passes from different — and sometimes absurd — platforms. Mahomes was the first rookie quarterback to start for the Chiefs in a non-strike game since Steve Fuller in 1979.

 

“He ruined a couple of great plays there,” Reid joked, with a laugh. “Listen, you saw that in college and for it to be able to transfer here to this level … there’s not a lot of guys that can do that.”

 

What’s more, Mahomes also converted several tough third-and-longs with dart-like throws under pressure, consistently pushed the ball downfield and, most importantly, led the game-winning scoring drive late in the fourth quarter.

 

“He had complete command out there,” said Reid, who was particularly pleased with Mahomes’ command of the verbiage in his offense. “He did a great job with it. I thought he was spot on.”

 

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1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

On the contrary though, the FO may also like some of the QB's in the draft more than us. They have a lot more info than us. We may be surprised and they could take someone like Fromm or Eason.

Yes of course if they think a rookie is better they will play the rookie.  My point is that they will play whoever they think is the best.  

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25 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I'll give you Mahomes, he was a special case, he just needed a year. Lamar decided he needed to throw more in the offseason, which made him a duel-threat QB, which he learned he should do from his time playing his rookie year. Most QB's aren't Mahomes, and most learn from experience. We have a team-friendly offense (great o-line, solid run game). Whatever rookie we draft would be fine.


You’re kidding yourself because that’s what you want to believe. 

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59 minutes ago, ClaytonColt said:

How has a thread which is obviously and specifically about the offensive line become yet another thread about the QB??

 

This is a fair comment. But we're in a place where basically anything, especially related to the offense, is going to come back to the QBing. I wish it didn't have to, but I don't expect anything different.

 

Were you around in January-March 2012? Everything was Manning vs Luck. Way worse than it is now. 

 

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

1 or 2 kicks here and there, we go from 7 to 9 wins easily, IMO. Thus, the facts bear out that JB is solid enough. The problem is the ceiling to get from those 9 to 12 or 13 wins that I do not see in him, just my opinion of course.

 

Thus, a FA cannot be considerably solid than Brissett. If we want the ceiling, draft the high ceiling prospect and coach him up for a year.  Yes, I can see us be in the middle of the pack again with 7 to 9 wins but bringing in a vet QB may be like a band aid, I am afraid.

 

It's valid to wonder whether JB can be successful now that teams have tape on him in 2019. But even if you project us to 5 wins with JB in 2020, I'm not all that excited about adding a different vet QB who might help us get to 8 or 9 wins. I'm way more concerned with the destination QB, while it seems a lot of people are stuck on who the bridge QB will be. (And ultimately, it's gonna be JB. The chances of the Colts replacing him with some other vet are extremely low, IMO.)

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17 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Then we're essentially tanking another year, we'll have to pay the 2017 class before the rookie steps onto the field, and there will be no point watching the 2020 season. If the Colts FO doesn't care in that scenario, why should I? 

Look at your argument!

 

”If the front office doesn’t care....”

 

These are guys who do this for a living.   Their jobs, their careers depend on caring.   These people sleep, eat, drink, breathe football.   They want to get better and win.    Sometimes the road is slower than we’d like.  
 

Just because a front office isn’t doing what you want them to do, doesn’t mean they don’t care.   They care more than all of us here — combined. 

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22 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Then we're essentially tanking another year, we'll have to pay the 2017 class before the rookie steps onto the field, and there will be no point watching the 2020 season. If the Colts FO doesn't care in that scenario, why should I? 

 

You dont have to... Might be better if you didnt. Glad we finally got that resolved 

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26 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Yeah, the Chiefs had locked up the #4 seed in 2017, so Mahomes got his first start in week 17 (game 16):

 

 

I was gonna mention that. Mahomes got that one start because their seeding was locked up. If not, he might not have played at all as a rookie.

 

And Alex Smith had a great 2017, lest we forget. 

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49 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Now you’re deliberately trying to be argumentative.    So I’ll put it another  way.

 

Using the line from Dumb and Dumber: “So you’re saying there’s a chance?” is NOT how good teams are run.     Please..........

No, you' re the one who said there is likely not going to be better. If you are so positive then say there is no chance a rookie will be better. 

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3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your view in the first paragraph is outdated. Besides the Mahomes exception, the NFL backs me up on this. QB's start right away now.

Actually the idea of sitting a young QB, even the first pick on the draft for 1/2 to 1 season is a fairly new concept (last 15 years in the NFL).  Michael Vick was, if I remember correctly, the first number 1 overall draft pick to basically sit for a year before taking over the starting position.  Baltimore also did it with Lamar Jackson, he didn't get the start until week 10 of his rookie seaso.  Carson Palmer also did it.

 

here is an interesting article on just this subject.  It kind of lends creedance to what @Superman is saying, there is no right or wrong way you have to look at the QB and the offense, etc.

 

One thing, I do think Reich's offense would be easier for a young QB to come in and pick up faster than other offenses.

 

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

As far the second paragraph, I can tell you have never watched a cincinatti bengals game (unless they play the colts). Dalton has nothing on the Bengals. No O-Line, no AJ Green, and the run game was terrible the first half of the year. Dalton would thrive as a stopgap option on this team.

I won't get into the Andy Dalton debate other than to say "thrive" may be too generous a term.

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50 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Here's the deal. I hope everyone enjoys watching their favorite team every Sunday, but I don't want the Colts' front office making football decisions on the basis of whether you're going to watch. 

 

I'm not pulling for them to throw away a season. I'm only saying that, whoever the veteran QB is, he's only a bridge for us to get to the next guy, who I hope we draft this April. And once we draft that guy, I hope the staff has a plan for getting him ready asap, and if he's ready in September, awesome. 

 

But if he's not, I'm not bailing on the 2020 season just because JB (or some also-ran who has the distinct advantage of not being JB, if nothing else) is the Week 1 starter. And that's because drafting and developing a new QB is about much more than the 2020 season.

 

I personally don't tune out on my team when they aren't good, then come back when things are looking up. That's not my style. And if I could survive every snap of Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky in 2011, I can survive another year of JB. But that's just me. If you or anyone else is gonna bail on 2020 because you're sick of JB, that's your prerogative. I just hope the front office isn't basing their personnel strategy on the whims of impatient and impulsive fans. 

I'll also be watching and rooting for the Colts if Brissett is the starter for 2020.  I'll be hoping he does well and the team can win.   

I will say that I won't be as excited as years past.   My hopes won't be as high.   If Brissett would have shown improvement throughout this year, it would be different.   I think we have pretty much seen his ceiling.  

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4 hours ago, KB said:

Is every thread going to turn into how JB is a terrible starter? Nobody going to talk about Glowinski and how he could improve since RG is the weakest link, how much better Braden Smith would be at guard than tackle, or a tackle prospect that could propel this line to #1? Nope. Were going to complain about the QB over and over again until next season. Then itll be the crying about how he is our starting QB again (get ready people, he is our starter next year. Nobody coming out, thats available for us, is going to be better than JB.)

 

Be better people. You're making this forum negative and boring.

Ding. Ding. Ding !

you hit the nail on the head...... the polarizing factor.   Notice that ALL reactions are covered .... like , thank you, confused, sad, and haha.  ALL of them.

Should be some kind of award due.

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27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

 

And Alex Smith had a great 2017, lest we forget. 

Bring him in too! (I hope he's doing better- talk about a crazy bad injury..)

 

I'm not bailing on the team fwiw- I know the safe money is on JB being the guy again, but man o' man- watch out. Things change fast in the NFL and if you think the fan base if being panicky/annoying/reactionary now, if the front office decides to stand pat and not invest in a future QB that stands a realistic chance (as I've seen suggested by some) and one of these better options in FA goes on to perform at substantially higher level than JB, whatever it is that's going on now is going to be turned up to 11, election year style. People will be calling for jobs and a rebuild and I'll say it now so that I'm not lumped in, I won't be joining that chorus, I just think this team needs an upgrade at QB for the 2020 season. I don't personally see the advantage in not doing so based on prior performance indicating future performance. They can and should do better. 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

Here's the deal. I hope everyone enjoys watching their favorite team every Sunday, but I don't want the Colts' front office making football decisions on the basis of whether you're going to watch. 

 

I'm not pulling for them to throw away a season. I'm only saying that, whoever the veteran QB is, he's only a bridge for us to get to the next guy, who I hope we draft this April. And once we draft that guy, I hope the staff has a plan for getting him ready asap, and if he's ready in September, awesome. 

 

But if he's not, I'm not bailing on the 2020 season just because JB (or some also-ran who has the distinct advantage of not being JB, if nothing else) is the Week 1 starter. And that's because drafting and developing a new QB is about much more than the 2020 season.

 

I personally don't tune out on my team when they aren't good, then come back when things are looking up. That's not my style. And if I could survive every snap of Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky in 2011, I can survive another year of JB. But that's just me. If you or anyone else is gonna bail on 2020 because you're sick of JB, that's your prerogative. I just hope the front office isn't basing their personnel strategy on the whims of impatient and impulsive fans. 

Well said i think.

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I don't think fans will jump ship if Brissett is the starter next season, as long as it is obvious the Colts have a plan at the QB position other than "JB is our guy." It may involve JB starting  due to a draft pick not being ready. If may involve JB winning a QB competition in the off season and training camp. Whatever the circumstances, he can't be handed the job of starter based on this years performance.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

The O-Line is great. As it should be considering the resources poured into it.

 

Just a shame that it doesn't seem to translate into winning games. 

After we get a new Qb and 3 new skill position players, it will somehow get much of the credit for winning games.

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Glowinski got exposed this season. Every time he had to block a premiere player, Glow got manhandled. This is what happens when there is no competition for a starting roster spot. Ballard needs to find another Guard to compete with Glowinski. 

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1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

Ding. Ding. Ding !

you hit the nail on the head...... the polarizing factor.   Notice that ALL reactions are covered .... like , thank you, confused, sad, and haha.  ALL of them.

Should be some kind of award due.

thanos GIF

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4 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

No, you' re the one who said there is likely not going to be better. If you are so positive then say there is no chance a rookie will be better. 

I use words like “likely” or “unlikely” because I try not to deal in 100 percent absolutes.

 

I try hard not to use words like “always” and “never”.   
 

So is it possible that some rookie could start his rookie year?   Sure, most anything is possible.   But it’s highly unlikely.

 

Look at the QB class of 2018.   I’m not sure any started week one.   They all started on the bench and then slowly got opportunities.

 

Guys who start week one, like Andrew Luck,  are the exception, not the rule.  And from what I’ve read,  most everyone in this class is going to have growing pains and likely needs a redshirt year.  
 

Right now, Ballard is telling us that JB is the front runner to start week one.  That’s not a 100 percent guarantee.  Something could happen to make him change his mind.   But, as of now,  I think it’s unlikely. 
 

Fair enough? 

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3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Glowinski got exposed this season. Every time he had to block a premiere player, Glow got manhandled. This is what happens when there is no competition for a starting roster spot. Ballard needs to find another Guard to compete with Glowinski. 

I agree that Glow regressed this year.  But the reasons are unknown at this time.

 

The idea about competition is nonsense.  Glow graded out well last year.   He was rewarded with a starter level contract.   Who was supposed to be brought in to compete against a guy who we just said “this guy is our starter”..??     Guys like Haeg and Andrews are our interior backups.  This is what NFL o-line’s look like. 
 

If Ballard spends a 3 or a 4 on a guard then maybe we're reconsidering Glow.  But until then, you have to believe the Colts think they can get him back to 2018 Glow and not 2019 Glow. 

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3 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Glowinski got exposed this season. Every time he had to block a premiere player, Glow got manhandled. This is what happens when there is no competition for a starting roster spot. Ballard needs to find another Guard to compete with Glowinski. 

Is that your opinion or do you have proof of your claim?

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I haven't seen anything since the season ended 9 days ago that indicates Brissett will be the starter next season. Both Ballard and Reich have said he needs to improve and get better. There will be qbs available: Dalton, probably Foles, if Elway thinks he can go with Lock Flacco will probably be let go. And ofcourse I'll throw Kelly into the mix. All anyone can do is speculate for now, when March rolls around things should get interesting.

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53 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Is that your opinion or do you have proof of your claim?

His uninformed opinion 

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1 hour ago, hoosierhawk said:

Is that your opinion or do you have proof of your claim?

Watch the tape. 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I agree that Glow regressed this year.  But the reasons are unknown at this time.

 

The idea about competition is nonsense.  Glow graded out well last year.   He was rewarded with a starter level contract.   Who was supposed to be brought in to compete against a guy who we just said “this guy is our starter”..??     Guys like Haeg and Andrews are our interior backups.  This is what NFL o-line’s look like. 
 

If Ballard spends a 3 or a 4 on a guard then maybe we're reconsidering Glow.  But until then, you have to believe the Colts think they can get him back to 2018 Glow and not 2019 Glow. 

I don't know if you have ever competed in sports before, but competition brings out the best in you. In 2018, we signed Glow off the street, and he had to work very hard to prove he's a capable starter. He played well, and earned the contract, but had a different mind set knowing he would be starting. Didn't have to worry about getting cut or benched. My take is that Ballard should have made sure to sign or draft another Guard to make Glow sweat. Didn't play with same sense of urgency knowing his job was safe, regardless of performance.

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9 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I don't know if you have ever competed in sports before, but competition brings out the best in you. In 2018, we signed Glow off the street, and he had to work very hard to prove he's a capable starter. He played well, and earned the contract, but had a different mind set knowing he would be starting. Didn't have to worry about getting cut or benched. My take is that Ballard should have made sure to sign or draft another Guard to make Glow sweat. Didn't play with same sense of urgency knowing his job was safe, regardless of performance.

Your opinion Mr Negative. Can't recall you ever having a positive feeling about any Colt. 

Watched every game with keen interest having  been an OL in my past. May have been a weak link in #3 OL in the NFL but better than 3 out of 4 of the right guards in the league.  

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3 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

Your opinion Mr Negative. Can't recall you ever having a positive feeling about any Colt. 

I'm on record saying Luck should have won, at least, 2 MVP's. As a Rookie, Luck took that team with no running game, no offensive line, and no defense to an 11-5 record into the playoffs. None of the great QB's have accomplished this, and I don't think we will ever witness this again. 

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34 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I don't know if you have ever competed in sports before, but competition brings out the best in you. In 2018, we signed Glow off the street, and he had to work very hard to prove he's a capable starter. He played well, and earned the contract, but had a different mind set knowing he would be starting. Didn't have to worry about getting cut or benched. My take is that Ballard should have made sure to sign or draft another Guard to make Glow sweat. Didn't play with same sense of urgency knowing his job was safe, regardless of performance.

Yeah....   that’s a lively speech, but it contains zero facts, but lots of opinion.

 

If some other player tailed off you’d be saying the same thing.

 

We don’t know if Glow had an injury that wasn’t really disclosed.   We don’t know if he had trouble adjusting to the new coaching techniques we wanted.  
 

But you write as if you know.  And you don’t.   2018 Glow received glowing reviews.   There’s was no reason to expect this kind of fall off.   I’m curious to see who shows up in 2020. 

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I believe Tua will start week one and lead us to the SB.  I hope he falls to us. 

 

By the way, this has nothing to do with him coming from Hawaii and me being a fan of his since following him in high school. :goodluck:

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15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Literally the only thing any QB can do worse than Brissett is throw INT's. Without that, Brissett is literally the worst starter in the league. If we draft a first-round rookie, you 100% start him without thinking twice about it.

My 1st time on forum. Sorry I don't totally disagree with you. But Peyton Manning and Luck plus most of all the elites have had there share of INT's. I would take Jamies Winston over JB any day. I don't dislike JB, don't get me wrong. He is a good backup QB and that is it. How does anyone know JB wanted this?(starting QB job) He may have been content being a backup QB. I feel bad for him taking all this heat from this fanbase. When it was all throwed at him in a small amount of time.

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15 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Your view in the first paragraph is outdated. Besides the Mahomes exception, the NFL backs me up on this. QB's start right away now.

 

As far the second paragraph, I can tell you have never watched a cincinatti bengals game (unless they play the colts). Dalton has nothing on the Bengals. No O-Line, no AJ Green, and the run game was terrible the first half of the year. Dalton would thrive as a stopgap option on this team.

100% agree. Dalton IMO would be awesome with Frank. Dalton is the only quarterback to lead the Bengals to five consecutive playoff berths, and one of five quarterbacks to lead his team to the playoffs in each of his first five seasons. I've been thinking this idea also. Great minds think alike. Dalton would be a good pick up and for cheap. I take him over tannehill. I still keep brissett, best back up available.

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19 hours ago, csmopar said:

A lot of posters on here have been saying the OL regressed this year. Maybe, maybe not. But if they did, they regressed to 3rd best in the league...

https://www.colts.com/news/offensive-line-third-best-nfl-pro-football-focus-2019?fbclid=IwAR062fJ25LXCLNRLPHqfzFpa2yFAwdXat-A2i-6Q8321yCB9oZmNDVMvCco

I didn't see any regression. I thought they did great. Imo There was a few hiccups but nothing to be alarmed about. No concerns when 3rd best in the league.

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4 hours ago, Marlboroman said:

My 1st time on forum. Sorry I don't totally disagree with you. But Peyton Manning and Luck plus most of all the elites have had there share of INT's. I would take Jamies Winston over JB any day. I don't dislike JB, don't get me wrong. He is a good backup QB and that is it. How does anyone know JB wanted this?(starting QB job) He may have been content being a backup QB. I feel bad for him taking all this heat from this fanbase. When it was all throwed at him in a small amount of time.

The only thing I'll say to the bolded is Peyton and Luck would throw INT's, but they would also throw for 300-350 yards and 2-3 tds most games to lead the Colts to victory. Brissett had little to no effect on this team besides 2 games on a team with an elite o-line who played 16 games together and a solid running game. We were a running team because we couldn't throw, not to compliment Brissett. Jacoby is 27, I feel no sympathy for him. He had plenty of time to learn and he's a bad QB.

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On 1/7/2020 at 12:09 PM, Superman said:

 

QBs also fail right away. More often than they succeed.

 

I've watched plenty Bengals games. I've even seen them in person. (Haven't you said several times that you don't really watch games??) Dalton is a paragon of mediocrity. His efficiency, adjusted yards/attempt, deep ball effectiveness, red zone efficiency, production from a clean pocket vs under pressure, etc., all basically the same as JB. The one thing he does better than JB is get rid of the ball quickly, but that doesn't lead to him making plays. He's mediocre. The only times he's ever been anything worth talking about is when he had AJ Green at the height of his powers.


Agreed. It’s easy to forget how talented some of those mid-decade Bengals teams were. At one point they not only had peak A.J. Green but also Marvin Jones, Mohammad Sanu, and Tyler Eifert. Plus Jeremy Hill and Gio Bernard and a pretty good OL that featured Andrew Whitworth among others. Much easier for a QB to excel with that caliber surrounding cast. 

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1 hour ago, will426 said:

Glow is The Weak Link he needs to go i think 

No question there.  I'm not sure he has to go though.  If they could pick up a good FA RG, then yes.  Or if they draft one.   But with needing a QB, WR, TE, DT, maybe LT and a few other spots, it might be good to go with Glow for another season.  

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