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52 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think those who are losing patience with our GM need to take a moment and reflect about this... Some of the greatest players in football, took a few years to develop into that great player they became. It took hard work and dedication to become that player. 

 

If ballard is anything, he is a hard worker, and he is dedicated to his craft. To expect Ballard to do better than he already has, as a rookie GM, imo, is unreasonable. To act like hes been a GM for years before we got him, to expect him to make fewer than a handful of mistakes in 3 years time, is unreasonable. 

 

How many jobs have you screwed up on before you finally stopped making mistakes? And did you have to scout new employees who you were required to hit every single pick on? No. Sit back. Relax. And give Ballard some time to learn this craft. 

 

Andrew Luck retires and everyone acts like Ballard is a problem for this team. Theres no other GM out there that I would rathere have running this team, and that's the bottom line. There is absolutely no one better out there, and if there is one out there, you can be sure hes not going to leave his team for this one. I had to say something because I'm tired of seeing people complain about our GM when they dont even have an alternate scenario lined up. They just want to complain about how it's raining today and the weather man should have said it was gonna rain tomorrow. 

 

Relax and have a good off season. 

I totally agree.   Ballard has done a great job building this team from the junk it was.   With Luck, we would have won 11-13 games.  This QB situation is going to tell us allot about Ballard.   I'll lose a little faith in him if JB is the 2020 starting Colts QB.

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"Oh so if we criticize Ballard we're haters?  You guys are clowns!  Grigson was 11-5 his first 3 seasons!  Ballard should have had a HOF caliber person in the wings because he should have known Luck's heart wasn't in it!  All Ballard does is trade back instead of picking 100% surefire bonafide STUDS!  FACTS!  You guys are just so in love with him that you can't even admit he sucks!  Ballard needs to go!  Pacergeek 2020!"

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As bad as it is now with all the hate directed towards him, I think it'll be worse next year. We will either have Brisset or a QB from a weak class under center, so everybody expecting us back in the playoffs are likely to be disappointed. People need to relax and just settle in. As seen in the NBA with the 76ers, we need to "Trust the Process".

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The problem is expectations are to high. Everyone expects nearly every pick to be superstars but really a good draft is getting 2-3 starters and hitting big here and there so instead of looking at all the misses let's look at the starters and solid contributors of each of his draft classes.

 

2017

Malik Hooker. Sure he has gotten some flack lately but he is still a top 15 safety in the league and our defense suffers when he is not on the field

 

Marlon Mack. 1,000 plus rusher who before injury was running with the top 5 in rushing and lead the league for a week or two.

 

Grover Stewart. While hes not the best he has started several games and has gotten meaningful snaps and stampede blue had a whole article on how much more our run defense improved with him playing.

 

Anthony Walker. He gets overshadowed by Leonard but he plays lights out and helps make one of the best linebacker tandems in the league. He's had back to back seasons with at least 100 tackles and is a leader on the defense

 

2018

I don't need to remind you all of how historically great this draft is but here we go.

 

Quenton Nelson. Do i need to say more outside of the fact that ballard traded down got more picks and got one of the best players in the entire league. that should be enough for the class, but wait theres more!

 

Darius Leonard. A small school prospect who many thought was taken to soon ends up being DROY and just came off a 5 INT season... At linebacker!

 

Braden Smith. Say whatever you want but a converted RG becoming a top 15 RT is pretty dang good

 

Kemoko Turay. Was one of the highest graded pass rushers until a freak injury, I would say that was a pretty good pick

 

Nyheim Hines. Was close to breaking a record for most catches by a rookie running back last year and has still played very well.

 

Jordan Wilkins. Another very good rotational piece who usually plays well when given snaps.

 

2019

This class is a little harder to judge since there's limited snaps but lets go with players who have shown promise

 

Rock Ya-Sin. Played well for a rookie at one of the hardest positions to learn and made PFF's top 50 rookies.

 

Ben Banogu. Was getting reps this year flashing pass rush potential after being drafted for a completely different role. He will get better during the off season and someone I will be watching to take a big step next year.

 

Bobby Okereke. Had one of the better grades against the pass compared to all other linebackers in the league. Has shown a lot of promise and a high IQ at the position.

 

Khari Willis. Our new starting Strong Safety who has came out to be another top 50 rookie who has came out and proved he can tackle and cover. a very exciting future ahead of him.

 

 It is rare to see this amount of success at drafting, just look back 4 years ago to Grigson. Heck Ballard didnt have alot of time to prep for the 2017 draft so to hit on the later prospects like he did is admirable. Show me another GM who is hitting on this many draft picks. Sure hindsight is 20/20 and you can look back at other players and say we shoulda drafted him because of blah blah blah.

 

Want too look at Signed free agents?

2017.

John Simon played very well but we switched from the 3-4 to a 4-3 and the coaches decided he wouldn't have the same success 

 

Jabaal Sheard. Still playing very well for us.

 

Al woods. Was a big reason the D didnt allow 100 yard rushers last season

 

Margus Hunt. played well enough to receive a second contract.

 

Johnathan Hankins. Played well for us but the same reason as Simon.

 

2018

 

Denico Autry. Played very well at times.

 

Desir. A starting CB who although injured this year still played well and had a terrific 2018.

 

Eric Ebron. You can't argue the success and monster year he had in 2018 with Luck. Him and Brissett didn't play well together but that was still successful. 

 

2019

Didnt have alot of FA by design but still got Justin Houston who still had over 10 sacks this year.

 

We have the youngest and most balanced roster I can remember the colts having in a long time. I know it seems to be a cop out but can you imagine just how well this team would have done with Luck? I guarantee we are in the playoffs this year. 

 

 

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Looking at our past three GMs, Grigson, Polian, and Tobin; neither built the roster solely through the draft, or claimed that it was the strategy.

 

Grigson fielded a competitive roster immediately by signing a bunch of vet FAs.  That's why he won executive of the Year.

 

Polian brought corner Tyrone Poole with him, and immediately signed Chad Bratzke and Chad Cota, and some others, with marginal success until his first round picks hit.

 

Tobin did extremely well with vet FA.  Brought in Will Wolford and Kirk Loudermilk immediately, as well as DE Tony Bennet.  All three were pretty big names at the time.  And he signed Harbaugh.

 

Ballard has signed some FAs, but he has repeatedly said that he will build through the draft.  That takes more time.  

 

If you have a problem with Ballard, then you have a problem with his strategy being different than his predecessors, IMO.

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21 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

As bad as it is now with all the hate directed towards him, I think it'll be worse next year. We will either have Brisset or a QB from a weak class under center, so everybody expecting us back in the playoffs are likely to be disappointed. People need to relax and just settle in. As seen in the NBA with the 76ers, we need to "Trust the Process".


Nobody “hates” Ballard! There have been very few threads directed at Ballard, like there was towards Grigson. 
 

He’s deserving of some criticism, he even said in his presser, he failed to get enough depth added to the team.

 

I’ve not seen a bunch of folks calling for Ballard to be fired. Have you? 


The “hate for Ballard” has been way over exaggerated.  So, much that I don’t think a thread needed to be started about it yet!

 

Lastly, the 76ers process was to “tank” for about 5-6 years straight! Bad example! 
 

Cheers

 

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16 minutes ago, MPStack said:


Nobody “hates” Ballard! There have been very few threads directed at Ballard, like there was towards Grigson. 
 

He’s deserving of some criticism, he even said in his presser, he failed to get enough depth added to the team.

 

I’ve not seen a bunch of folks calling for Ballard to be fired. Have you? 


The “hate for Ballard” has been way over exaggerated.  So, much that I don’t think a thread needed to be started about it yet!

 

Lastly, the 76ers process was to “tank” for about 5-6 years straight! Bad example! 
 

Cheers

 

All valid points haha   I guess I’m getting more upset with the people who are upset with Ballard than they are themselves lol

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1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

All valid points haha   I guess I’m getting more upset with the people who are upset with Ballard than they are themselves lol


I’m not happy with everything Ballard has done to this point, does it make me a hater? Nope! 

 

Should I be able to openly and respectfully discuss issues I have with Ballard? I think so!

 

Is Ballard smarter than me? Definitely!

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it's the instant gratification times we live in. 

 

The players have to contribute immediately or they're a bust mentality. 

 

Nelson and Leonard being All Pros their first year set really unrealistic expectations for the future drafts. 

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37 minutes ago, MPStack said:


Nobody “hates” Ballard! There have been very few threads directed at Ballard, like there was towards Grigson. 
 

He’s deserving of some criticism, he even said in his presser, he failed to get enough depth added to the team.

 

I’ve not seen a bunch of folks calling for Ballard to be fired. Have you? 


The “hate for Ballard” has been way over exaggerated.  So, much that I don’t think a thread needed to be started about it yet!

 

Lastly, the 76ers process was to “tank” for about 5-6 years straight! Bad example! 
 

Cheers

 

Couldn’t agree more with this post! Well said 

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1 hour ago, CheezyColt said:

"Oh so if we criticize Ballard we're haters?  You guys are clowns!  Grigson was 11-5 his first 3 seasons!  Ballard should have had a HOF caliber person in the wings because he should have known Luck's heart wasn't in it!  All Ballard does is trade back instead of picking 100% surefire bonafide STUDS!  FACTS!  You guys are just so in love with him that you can't even admit he sucks!  Ballard needs to go!  Pacergeek 2020!"

All the things I want to call you!!! Unfortunately the moderators get all * when i do that..... so I’ll just leave it at this you are the most ************************!!!!! I believe this is not a personal shot so please don’t send me back to forum jail!

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11 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

it's the instant gratification times we live in. 

 

The players have to contribute immediately or they're a bust mentality. 

 

Nelson and Leonard being All Pros their first year set really unrealistic expectations for the future drafts. 

I agree with some of the "Instant Gratification" times we live in comment. However, I think rookies who do not contribute immediately are compared to their counterparts on other teams who are also rookies -- not Nelson and Leonard.

 

For example, Ballard drafted P. Campbell, who due to injuries was unable to showcase his abilities. Of course, we have to be patient, but watching other rookie receivers excelling within their teams is a bit frustrating, especially for a Colts team with such a lack at the WR position.

 

After draft misses (Dorsett and Moncrief) and so many failed attempts to add FA WRs like Avery, A. Johnson, D. Heyward-Bey, H. Nicks, K. Aiken, R. Grant, and Funchess, we really needed to see some hope at the WR position. T.Y. has been the only solid contributor and his time is winding down.

 

I do think, however, that given time, P. Campbell will be seen as a good draft pick, but I'm sure you can recognize the frustration.

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I like Ballard, but I think he focuses too much on collecting second round picks. These picks are, way too hit or miss. Yes, Ballard had success with Darius Leonard, but has also drafted busts in Quincy Wilson and Tyquon Lewis. The best prospects are usually found in the first round, not the second round, and it was a bad decision to trade out of the first round in 2019. 

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30 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

it's the instant gratification times we live in. 

 

The players have to contribute immediately or they're a bust mentality. 

 

Nelson and Leonard being All Pros their first year set really unrealistic expectations for the future drafts. 

It's even worse than that.  Many people act like if another team drafts a player that turns out to be good, then the Colts GM missed on that player.  Or if he doesn't sign some of the "big name free agents" then... I don't know.

 

Like @MPStack stated, I like Ballard and I think he is the best GM for the Colts since Bill Polian was GM (that is prior to 2009 when his son Chris became the GM) but I don't think that everything he has done is great, he has missed on a few but he's hit on a lot more than he's missed.

 

Major misses IMO have been

Hooker

Basham

Wilson

Banner is borderline since he's still playing

Cain

Not looking for a replacement for Geathers

 

Major hits

Leonard

Nelson

Ya-Sin

Mack

Stewart

Sheard

Houston

Ebron (yes he is a hit, IMO because he performed to his contract, exceeded it one year and below it the next but he only signed a 2 year contract)

Willis

Walker

Hines

Smith

 

I think the Colts have a good core of guys now and few holes to fill, so I think we will see him tap into more of the cap space than he has.  But we shall see

 

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13 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I like Ballard, but I think he focuses too much on collecting second round picks. These picks are, way too hit or miss. Yes, Ballard had success with Darius Leonard, but has also drafted busts in Quincy Wilson and Tyquon Lewis. The best prospects are usually found in the first round, not the second round, and it was a bad decision to trade out of the first round in 2019. 

I can see why he did that though in the past because there were so many holes to fill and the more picks you have the better the chances of hitting and building that core quicker. 

Now it appears the core is about set so I don't think we'll see as much acquiring picks unless the value in the 1st is just not there. 

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37 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I like Ballard, but I think he focuses too much on collecting second round picks. These picks are, way too hit or miss. Yes, Ballard had success with Darius Leonard, but has also drafted busts in Quincy Wilson and Tyquon Lewis. The best prospects are usually found in the first round, not the second round, and it was a bad decision to trade out of the first round in 2019. 

 

 Anyone that know anything understands that after pick 15 or so in ANY draft, the following picks up to about pick 40 have very similar grades.
 So this means you don't know doodle, what you are talking about.
 Thanks for the knowledge. 

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2 hours ago, MPStack said:


I’m not happy with everything Ballard has done to this point, does it make me a hater? Nope! 

 

Should I be able to openly and respectfully discuss issues I have with Ballard? I think so!

 

Is Ballard smarter than me? Definitely!

 

I cant say it's so much about the threads that have been started. I'm not happy with all of Ballards choices nor is anyone. I suppose the point of this thread was directed towards those who seem to keep harping on Ballards choices. Maybe I'm confused and it's all just one guy who wont shut up. Could be.... could be... 

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22 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

I can see why he did that though in the past because there were so many holes to fill and the more picks you have the better the chances of hitting and building that core quicker. 

Now it appears the core is about set so I don't think we'll see as much acquiring picks unless the value in the 1st is just not there. 

Agree with what you said, and to add more perspective, as others have mentioned in various threads, Ballard went into the 2019 draft thinking ALuck would be under center, which covers up a whole lot of holes that he thought he could get by with.

When you have a top 5-7 QB with the roster we had you can afford to trade back and farm more picks.  That all changes as of this draft.  We'll see if he garners picks as he did in previous years or not.

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45 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

I like Ballard, but I think he focuses too much on collecting second round picks. These picks are, way too hit or miss. Yes, Ballard had success with Darius Leonard, but has also drafted busts in Quincy Wilson and Tyquon Lewis. The best prospects are usually found in the first round, not the second round, and it was a bad decision to trade out of the first round in 2019. 

History/results tell us different. While I agree we should have taken a DT in the first last year, the second round is actually the same or better than the first for many specific positions.

 

Here's look at AV per position, per round, over 35 years.

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-some-positions-riskier-to-pick-than-others-in-the-nfl-draft/

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Just now, NannyMcafee said:

 

I cant say it's so much about the threads that have been started. I'm not happy with all of Ballards choices nor is anyone. I suppose the point of this thread was directed towards those who seem to keep harping on Ballards choices. Maybe I'm confused and it's all just one guy who wont shut up. Could be.... could be... 

 

I can’t pinpoint exactly what started it, probably a combination of things, and I don’t really care, because we’re not anywhere near close to the previous “hate Grigson mantra” threads. 
 

Like I said, a little exaggerated at the moment. 
 

Cheers

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Fans of every team do this. There are probably fans from 31 teams saying "I can't believe we took so and so when we could have drafted Leonard!" (or fill in the name of any 2nd round or later star). It's human nature.

 

Criticizing the GM is expected (not always warranted), calling for his head is crazy.

 

 

 

 

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So far Ballard hasn’t produced the winning team that we all thought he would. And saying that the Colts would have won 11-13 games with Luck is an indictment on Ballard. He hasn’t built a team that can win without an MVP caliber QB - at least not yet. So far our current and past GMs have not been able to win without Luck. 
 

I think it’s crazy to say he should be fired. 

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1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

It's even worse than that.  Many people act like if another team drafts a player that turns out to be good, then the Colts GM missed on that player.  Or if he doesn't sign some of the "big name free agents" then... I don't know.

 

Like @MPStack stated, I like Ballard and I think he is the best GM for the Colts since Bill Polian was GM (that is prior to 2009 when his son Chris became the GM) but I don't think that everything he has done is great, he has missed on a few but he's hit on a lot more than he's missed.

 

Major misses IMO have been

Hooker

Basham

Wilson

Banner is borderline since he's still playing

Cain

Not looking for a replacement for Geathers

 

Major hits

Leonard

Nelson

Ya-Sin

Mack

Stewart

Sheard

Houston

Ebron (yes he is a hit, IMO because he performed to his contract, exceeded it one year and below it the next but he only signed a 2 year contract)

Willis

Walker

Hines

Smith

 

I think the Colts have a good core of guys now and few holes to fill, so I think we will see him tap into more of the cap space than he has.  But we shall see

 

Willis is the replacement for Geathers.  So I’d remove that from your misses as Willis has a case for being the best draft pick last year.

 

cain was late round pick that didn’t work out.  That’s not a miss IMO.

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4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think those who are losing patience with our GM need to take a moment and reflect about this... Some of the greatest players in football, took a few years to develop into that great player they became. It took hard work and dedication to become that player. 

 

If ballard is anything, he is a hard worker, and he is dedicated to his craft. To expect Ballard to do better than he already has, as a rookie GM, imo, is unreasonable. To act like hes been a GM for years before we got him, to expect him to make fewer than a handful of mistakes in 3 years time, is unreasonable. 

 

How many jobs have you screwed up on before you finally stopped making mistakes? And did you have to scout new employees who you were required to hit every single pick on? No. Sit back. Relax. And give Ballard some time to learn this craft. 

 

Andrew Luck retires and everyone acts like Ballard is a problem for this team. Theres no other GM out there that I would rathere have running this team, and that's the bottom line. There is absolutely no one better out there, and if there is one out there, you can be sure hes not going to leave his team for this one. I had to say something because I'm tired of seeing people complain about our GM when they dont even have an alternate scenario lined up. They just want to complain about how it's raining today and the weather man should have said it was gonna rain tomorrow. 

 

Relax and have a good off season. 

 

Ballard is just fine.  I think his postseason PC demonstrated that both his head and heart are in the right places.  He knows where things stand, he knows the buck stops with him, and he knows he has his work cut out for him.

 

What would concern me is a GM who, in the wake of a disappointing season like this was, could only offer excuses, deflections, complaints, defensiveness, etc.

 

We’ve got the right guy.

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37 minutes ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

 Anyone that know anything understands that after pick 15 or so in ANY draft, the following picks up to about pick 40 have very similar grades.
 So this means you don't know doodle, what you are talking about.
 Thanks for the knowledge. 

Yes. Exactly. Rock Ya Sin was a way better pick than DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel.

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22 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Willis is the replacement for Geathers.  So I’d remove that from your misses as Willis has a case for being the best draft pick last year.

I meant the year before.  He signed Mitchell during the year in 2018.

22 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

cain was late round pick that didn’t work out.  That’s not a miss IMO.

Good point.  And I don't expect a GM to get good players at every point of the draft.  I probably would not have mentioned Cain had they (Colts front office) hyped him so much during training camp of his rookie season.

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15 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Yes. Exactly. Rock Ya Sin was a way better pick than DK Metcalf or Deebo Samuel.

They both have made more of impact this year but it's too early to tell.

 

I remember people bad mouthing Polian when he took a receiver Wayne when Quincy Morgan, Chad Johnson and Chris Chambers were available.  Or for taking Freeney rather than Haynesworth.  In the long run, it was proven that Polian made the correct choice.  We need to wait and see if the same can be said for Ya-Sin.

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When evaluating Ballard, especially by using certain stats, don't forget we had a scheme changeover.  So any player he adds is going to have the ability to start and contribute sooner.  Its not necessarily because the player is particularly good, he could be playing because there is nobody better in front of him.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

When evaluating Ballard, especially by using certain stats, don't forget we had a scheme changeover.  So any player he adds is going to have the ability to start and contribute sooner.  Its not necessarily because the player is particularly good, he could be playing because there is nobody better in front of him.


Exactly, why I don’t get to bent out of shape about Q. Wilson. 
 

I just didn’t/don’t like the Lewis, Turay and Banogu picks. They’re not three down guys, but time will tell. 
 

Rock and Campbell I think improve in 2020. 

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5 minutes ago, MPStack said:


Exactly, why I don’t get to bent out of shape about Q. Wilson. 
 

I just didn’t/don’t like the Lewis, Turay and Banogu picks. They’re not three down guys, but time will tell. 
 

Rock and Campbell I think improve in 2020. 

Yeah.  The low second round he appears to be looking for situational players, like rotational pass rushers and Campbell, who was thought of as a slot guy, IMO.

 

The problem is that they may not be very good football players if that one excellent trait doesn't perform at the NFL level.

 

I say the entirety of round 2 is where you can still find good overall football players.  Safeties, zone CBs, RTs, LBers, RBs.  He hasn't selected any of those positions from pick 45 to 85, IIRC.  

 

Maybe Okerke.

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4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yeah.  The low second round he appears to be looking for situational players, like rotational pass rushers and Campbell, who was thought of as a slot guy, IMO.

 

The problem is that they may not be very good football players if that one excellent trait doesn't perform at the NFL level.

 

I say the entirety of round 2 is where you can still find good overall football players.  Safeties, zone CBs, RTs, LBers, RBs.  No selection of those positions from pick 45 to 85, IIRC.  

 

Maybe Okerke.


I don’t expect D. Leonard’s with every 2nd Rd pick, but I want solid (starters) contributors with that kind of draft capital.  Like, I said, I feel those three are “specialists.”
 

 

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2 minutes ago, MPStack said:


I don’t expect D. Leonard’s with every 2nd Rd pick, but I want solid (starters) contributors with that kind of draft capital.  Like, I said, I feel those three are “specialists.”
 

 

Agreed.  His early second rounders are definitely in a different mold than his later second rounders.  That's what I meant, I think he looks for specialists in that area of the draft when I think there are still good all around football players on the board in the late second.

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A short list of things Ballard had to deal with this season.

 

1. A franchise QB retiring right before the first kickoff: check

2. An unseasoned young roster: check

3. A hall of fame kicker with an epic case of the yips: check

4. Another injury plagued Colts roster: check

 

 

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Things I think Ballard has done well as GM

 

1. Managed the CAP well

2. Solidified the O-Line

3. Added 2 All Pros over three drafts

4. Accumulated a lot of draft capital 

5. Resilience (McDaniels Fiasco)

6. Taking ownership of current state of team

7. Has not over paid for veteran FA. 
 

Things I didn’t really like

 

1. Yeah, some of the 2nd Rd picks don’t thrill me. 

2. The Brissett contract, I know why he did, but JB didn’t light the world on fire. 
3. Luck’s retirement, I think they knew well before two weeks out. I would’ve never let Andrew “chuck” footballs at TC if so. 


More good than bad! 
 

JMO

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1 hour ago, LockeDown said:

Beam me up, Scotty...a small group of humanoids that appear to be haters are all that’s left.......except they call it intellect. Interesting.

Yes.....and apparently, they use this delusional platform of perceived higher intellect, to give them foresight properties. Truly amazing.

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2 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Yes.....and apparently, they use this delusional platform of perceived higher intellect, to give them foresight properties. Truly amazing.


Kinda thought this thread was turning into a pretty positive respectful discussion and then you showed up. 


 

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    • We shall see. I think if he does anything close to what Lewis did last year he will stick. Lewis wasnt incredible but he did show the tools they thought he had when they drafted him. We need that same thing from Banogou this year or its probably curtains.
    • And as announcers have said, at home we swept, Mets, Dodgers, Padres, and Cardinals. Need reds to be help this week against brewers    And tomorrow starts a series with the Mets in NY. @NFLfan are you going to go to any of them? I saw the tickets were cheap.    I am going to the Marlins Cards game on Tuesday, close to home, in the second section from home. Will be my 5th game there this season. 7th overall   And will give a recap of AZ tomorrow, since I got back   
    • Agree with most of this, but Tannehill's accuracy was never really an issue. Those Miami teams he played for were just bad lol. Some horrible OLs. They finally started building the team correctly, and even Fitzmagic looked good.   Looks like TN is going all-in a bit for the next couple years, so wouldn't be surprised to see their O ask more from Tannehill. Running the wheels off Henry will only get you so far.
    • I wasn't big on landing Wentz but having said that sometimes a change of scenery can change a QB's career. Get with the right team = great run game, good coach than many things can change. There wasn't anyone that ever mentioned Ryan Tannehill as a top 15 QB when he played for the Dolphins, he was considered average by most and many Dolphins fans thought he was bad. Look at him in Tennessee though with Henry and better coaching. He went from average at best to good in most peoples minds. His accuracy is a lot better in Tennessee and with Henry being the focal point that allows Tannehill to make less mistakes and use play action effectively.    In reality, Wentz even has more physical tools than Tannehill has.
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