First/Second Team All-Pro

[MarquisJ]

 

[ColtStrong2013]

I concur, Stephen.

[jvan1973]

Wait,   I thought Leonard had a bad year?

[WarGhost21]

Darius should have been 1st team IMO. Demario Davis did not deserve it over him, seeing as Leonard had better stats and play. Even though he missed time, he was still the better player hands down. It’s too bad team success is taken into account as well, otherwise he would be there easily

[stitches]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Wait,   I thought Leonard had a bad year?

He was having a very mediocre year before he returned from his concussion. He was a beast to end the year though. 

[Fluke_33]

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

[stitches]

1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

Darius should have been 1st team IMO. Demario Davis did not deserve it over him, seeing as Leonard had better stats and play. Even though he missed time, he was still the better player hands down. It’s too bad team success is taken into account as well, otherwise he would be there easily

Demario Davis has been amazing this year. Absolutely deserved recognition for him. 

[WarGhost21]

Just now, stitches said:

Demario Davis has been amazing this year. Absolutely deserved recognition for him. 

Sure, he’s been a big part of that defense. However, his play didn’t quite warrant a first team selection. I’d flip him and Leonard, and Keuchly I’d flip with Kendricks

[PeterBowman]

3 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

Hell no lol

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Sure, he’s been a big part of that defense. However, his play didn’t quite warrant a first team selection. I’d flip him and Leonard, and Keuchly I’d flip with Kendricks

I disagree. I think Demario Davis has been better than Leonard this year. 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

Umh...

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

Nevermind. 

[WarGhost21]

7 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

Is this a serious question?? Honestly, I can’t tell wether or not this is a joke... Why would we trade the one piece of this offense that, when he came in, took the team and especially the o-line to a new level?

[Yoshinator]

I wouldn't trade Nelson for the #1 pick by himself let alone include the #13 overall pick!

[CurBeatElite]

I think Leonard's missed time is what cost him.  And while I think he became a better football player this year in terms (last year it seemed like he relied almost solely on his athleticism, whereas I think this year he seems to be reading things better and playing with a higher football IQ), his numbers went down from last year (42 less tackles, 2 less sacks, 2 less forced fumbles, 2 less fumble recoveries, with 3 more interceptions).  Given that he only played 13 games this year, his numbers were still very strong.  Unfortunately, he set the bar so high for himself as a rookie, maybe others throughout the league saw this year as a step back from last year?

 

TBH, I didn't see Davis play that much, though just eyeballing the stats he had less tackles in 3 more games than Leonard.  He only had 1 INT compared to Leonard's 5 (1 for a TD), 0 forced fumbles to Leonard's 2 (I think it should've been 3 with the Watson one, but whatever), and 4 sacks to Leonard's 5.

 

 

[Fluke_33]

24 minutes ago, PeterBowman said:

Hell no lol

 

22 minutes ago, stitches said:

Umh...

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

....

 

 

Nevermind. 

 

7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wouldn't trade Nelson for the #1 pick by himself let alone include the #13 overall pick!

 

19 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Is this a serious question?? Honestly, I can’t tell wether or not this is a joke... Why would we trade the one piece of this offense that, when he came in, took the team and especially the o-line to a new level?

 

 

I thought that might cause a stir.   I would trade him for it.   As great as he is you can make do with and replace a guard.  You could be looking for a qb for 10 years and by that time neslon will be retiring.

[HungarianColtsFan]

32 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

 

 

What are you smoking?

[stitches]

Just now, Fluke_33 said:

 

 

 

 

 

I thought that might cause a stir.   I would trade him for it.   As great as he is you can make do with and replace a guard.  You could be looking for a qb for 10 years and by that time neslon will be retiring.

For the record, I didn't want to stir % up, so I just decided to not answer and do it in a cryptic way. I don't think the question is as preposterous as many here would like you to think. If you love Burrow .... or hell, even Chase Young... you have to consider it IMO. 

[TDewar1987]

34 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

This sounds like a Ryan Grigson move. 

[Colts_Fan12]

41 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Wait,   I thought Leonard had a bad year?

yeah! he wasn't living up to the hype from last year!! 

[WarGhost21]

5 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

 

I thought that might cause a stir.   I would trade him for it.   As great as he is you can make do with and replace a guard.  You could be looking for a qb for 10 years and by that time neslon will be retiring.

There is valid thought process in the idea, sure, but Big Q is already a top 15 Offensive player in the league, not just along the line. He’s a top 5 offensive player under the age of 25. With a QB, even Burrow, there are question marks in the draft. Q is not a question mark, he’s an exclamation point. The risk just isn’t worth it IMO

[The Fish]

6 minutes ago, TDewar1987 said:

This sounds like a Ryan Grigson move. 

 

 

I think he's saying he want's Joe Burrow, which is totally fine to want. If the Bengals would take 13 and the best Guard in the NFL for the rights to Burrow, given where the Colts are.. I'd do it in a second to be honest, if Burrow is going to pan out as expected- its a risk and I'm noticing general risk aversion around here (maybe not though- some people would play Madden on Rookie and GM this thing). Guards don't win Super Bowls. 

[Fisticuffs111]

I think that’s fair, Leonard as a 2nd teamer. Guess this is as good a place as any...Leonard’s my favorite player on this team, but it worries me just for health sake how he was getting blown up by RB’s (helmet to (helmet) this year. He took a few big shots to the head.

[Fluke_33]

5 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

There is valid thought process in the idea, sure, but Big Q is already a top 15 Offensive player in the league, not just along the line. He’s a top 5 offensive player under the age of 25. With a QB, even Burrow, there are question marks in the draft. Q is not a question mark, he’s an exclamation point. The risk just isn’t worth it IMO

What if it was for next years #1 and a guarantee for Lawrence or if you saw the next Luck or Manning.  I think you have to make that trade.

[csmopar]

44 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

Be gone with you!

[TDewar1987]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

 

I think he's saying he want's Joe Burrow, which is totally fine to want. If the Bengals would take 13 and the best Guard in the NFL for the rights to Burrow, given where the Colts are.. I'd do it in a second to be honest, if Burrow is going to pan out as expected- its a risk and I'm noticing general risk aversion around here (maybe not though- some people would play Madden on Rookie and GM this thing). Guards don't win Super Bowls. 

 

Yeah I get that, and I was really just joking. It's too much to give up in my opinion. He could turn out to be a superstar, sure. But we know what we have in Nelson. a 2x First team all pro Guard who is going to play a lot of good football for a long time. I just dont think the risk/reward is high enough in my opinion of course. 

[stitches]

9 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

There is valid thought process in the idea, sure, but Big Q is already a top 15 Offensive player in the league, not just along the line. He’s a top 5 offensive player under the age of 25. With a QB, even Burrow, there are question marks in the draft. Q is not a question mark, he’s an exclamation point. The risk just isn’t worth it IMO

 

eh... I really didn't want to go into it in this thread, so as to not derail it. Maybe a moderator can move those posts in a separate thread, but yeah.... 

 

The question is ... do you want a 100% of an All pro guard or lets say 65% chance of an all pro QB? Or lets say... 80% chance of an all pro pass-rusher? (or whatever you think the chance is Burrow and Young will become all-pros). 

 

I don't think an answer either way to those questions is unreasonable. 

 

[Fluke_33]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

 

eh... I really didn't want to go into it in this thread, so as to not derail it. Maybe a moderator can move those posts in a separate thread, but yeah.... 

 

The question is ... do you want a 100% of an All pro guard or lets say 65% of an all pro QB? Or lets say... 80% of an all pro pass-rusher? (or whatever you think the chance is Burrow and Young will become all-pros). 

 

I don't think an answer "yes" to those questions is unreasonable. 

 

yeah its something i've been kicking around for a bit.  Shouldn't have derailed this thread with it though.  

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

yeah its something i've been kicking around for a bit.  Shouldn't have derailed this thread with it though.  

for a once in a generational talent, MAYBE. But Nelson may go down as one of the best Guards in recent years. Burrow is good, but I think he's way overly hyped because of the QB class and the drought of QBs worth a dang in this class.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

 

Only to get Joe Burrow killed because our Left Tackle retires and we decided to trade our All-Pro, All-World left guard to acquire him... Seems reasonable.

[WarGhost21]

5 minutes ago, Fluke_33 said:

What if it was for next years #1 and a guarantee for Lawrence or if you saw the next Luck or Manning.  I think you have to make that trade.

That would be much more interesting, but even still it’s not a surefire thing. However, Nelson is what made this line go from worst in the league to top 5. Without him, even if we didn’t get another guard, our new QB would be put under pressure more, and even if it’s not as much as Luck was it’ll be a substantial bit. I’d rather have a decent, reliable QB such as Eason in this years second round than a Great QB like Lawrence who gets no protection and has lost a lot of the run game we have under Q. I think straight up Q for the 1st would be a decently fair trade, but throwing in the 13 is a bit too much for my tastes, especially seeing as we could probably get one of CeeDee Lamb or Jerry Jeudy there to boost the offense. 

 

7 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

eh... I really didn't want to go into it in this thread, so as to not derail it. Maybe a moderator can move those posts in a separate thread, but yeah.... 

 

The question is ... do you want a 100% of an All pro guard or lets say 65% chance of an all pro QB? Or lets say... 80% chance of an all pro pass-rusher? (or whatever you think the chance is Burrow and Young will become all-pros). 

 

I don't think an answer either way to those questions is unreasonable. 

 

 I couldn’t agree more. Positional value is very different through every aspect of the sport, so in all those numbers, once adjusted for value, are relatively similar. As I said above though, the issue would be with having to give away the 13 as well, which could be a huge chip to our future if we can grab an elite level WR or even a great DT like Derrick Brown. Risk and reward changes with every single little change, even if it’s only a backup player or a late round pick. Most teams are a house made of sticks that aren’t put together well, and one slight breeze or even a fly landing on the wrong place could send it all crashing down. That’s the excitement of the NFL

[Valpo2004]

56 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I wouldn't trade Nelson for the #1 pick by himself let alone include the #13 overall pick!

 

Seriously?  

 

I love Nelson and this is a moot point because that trade wouldn't be floated in the first place.

 

But we could get Joe Burrow OR we could trade down a few spots and grab a boatload of picks in a rather deep draft.  You could use those to get another QB you want or get Chase Young.  

 

Say Miami is all in on Joe Burrow.  Trade #1 for #5, #18 and #25.  You could exit the FIRST round with a QB other than Joe Burrow, A top WR, A top DT, and maybe a top tackle or top CB. (We would have 4 picks in the first round of a very good draft.)  And that's just what you could get in the first.  Than grab a guard to replace Nelson in the 2nd.

 

Again I love Nelson and this trade wouldn't be floated anyways but that #1 pick is pretty valuable, you could draft a good number of elite prospects.  

[csmopar]

2 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Seriously?  

 

I love Nelson and this is a moot point because that trade wouldn't be floated in the first place.

 

But we could get Joe Burrow OR we could trade down a few spots and grab a boatload of picks in a rather deep draft.  You could use those to get another QB you want or get Chase Young.  

 

Say Miami is all in on Joe Burrow.  Trade #1 for #5, #18 and #25.  You could exit the FIRST round with a QB other than Joe Burrow, A top WR, A top DT, and maybe a top tackle or top CB.  And that's just what you could get in the first.  Than grab a guard to replace Nelson in the 2nd.

 

Again I love Nelson and this trade wouldn't be floated anyways but that #1 pick is pretty valuable, you could draft a couple elite prospects.  

We finally have a super stud at OL after how many decades?! and you all wanna float the idea of this concept?! For an unknown, rookie QB. That has at best, a 50/50 percent chance of becoming elite?

 

[Indyfan4life]

1 hour ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

Can I buy some drugs from you?

[Valpo2004]

24 minutes ago, csmopar said:

We finally have a super stud at OL after how many decades?! and you all wanna float the idea of this concept?! For an unknown, rookie QB. That has at best, a 50/50 percent chance of becoming elite?

 

 

Super stud OL are great but the big key to having a good OL is simply not having any glaring weaknesses.  For that amount of draft capital Nelson could be replaced.  I'm not talking about trading the whole OL here.  

 

Again though I'm saying no one would ever offer that trade, so it's a moot point.  

[ColtStrong2013]

28 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Seriously?  

 

I love Nelson and this is a moot point because that trade wouldn't be floated in the first place.

 

But we could get Joe Burrow OR we could trade down a few spots and grab a boatload of picks in a rather deep draft.  You could use those to get another QB you want or get Chase Young.  

 

Say Miami is all in on Joe Burrow.  Trade #1 for #5, #18 and #25.  You could exit the FIRST round with a QB other than Joe Burrow, A top WR, A top DT, and maybe a top tackle or top CB. (We would have 4 picks in the first round of a very good draft.)  And that's just what you could get in the first.  Than grab a guard to replace Nelson in the 2nd.

 

Again I love Nelson and this trade wouldn't be floated anyways but that #1 pick is pretty valuable, you could draft a good number of elite prospects.  

 

Mentioning Young is the only thing that makes this post sensible. Nelson was, at the time, the 2nd best player (now the best player) in what will go down as one of the best draft classes ever... I'm not sure Joe Burrow's evaluation grade would be in the same conversation as Nelson for the Colts. It's likely he wouldn't have even a similar impact on this team as Nelson did/does. Chase Young is the best player in the draft, and could be something special, so t.it (ridiculous moderators that t.it is censored) for tat with Nelson is the only thing that makes sense to me scenario wise. No way I'd give up our 1st round pick for that though. Nelson right now would be the best player in this draft and worth a top 3 pick, if not the top pick... He was in 2018 and we were beyond lucky to be able to move down, acquire three 2nd round picks and get him where we did. Game changer on the offensive line.

That isn't to sell short the need to upgrade our quarterback position, or what Chase Young will bring to whoever drafts him... We could greatly use upgrades at both of those positions... That's to speak on what Quenton Nelson is in this league, and that's a future Hall of Famer that is on pace to being one of the greatest players this league's ever seen. That's a sure thing. You don't trade sure things.

[John Hammonds]

3 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

would anyone trade nelson and #13 for #1 this year?

I remember

In 1989, the Colts drafted WR Andre Rison at #22 from Michigan State.  He spent one very promising year with us, with Chris Chandler throwing to him.

In 1990, we traded Rison to Atlanta for the rights to the #1 overall pick, using it on QB Jeff George.  (Correct me if I'm wrong, but if we had retained our first round pick, we could have taken HOF RB Emmitt Smith.)

"Bad Moon" Rison went on to be an amazing superstar for the Falcons.

Jeff George wound up being just this side of a bust.

 

I ain't trading a bona fide HOF Guard for the rights to the #1 pick, hoping the guy becomes the franchise QB.  Nuh uh.

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

I ain't trading a bona fide HOF Guard for the rights to the #1 pick, hoping the guy becomes the franchise QB.  Nuh uh.

Amen. You find a guy that can be a franchise qb with Nelson protecting him (and creating a top 5 rushing attack in the process)...

[waittilnextyear]

4 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Darius should have been 1st team IMO. Demario Davis did not deserve it over him, seeing as Leonard had better stats and play. Even though he missed time, he was still the better player hands down. It’s too bad team success is taken into account as well, otherwise he would be there easily

 

  A better question is should he be 2nd team.

   Davis had a 90.1 PFF grade  Leonard 78.8
  Davis was ranked #2   Leonard #7
   Davis graded higher against the run, pass rush, and way higher in coverage.
     Kinda makes you a Homer.

[csmopar]

3 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Super stud OL are great but the big key to having a good OL is simply not having any glaring weaknesses.  For that amount of draft capital Nelson could be replaced.  I'm not talking about trading the whole OL here.  

 

Again though I'm saying no one would ever offer that trade, so it's a moot point.  

And how many OL did we draft and sign trying to protect the QB? A ton!

[WarGhost21]

17 minutes ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

  A better question is should he be 2nd team.

   Davis had a 90.1 PFF grade  Leonard 78.8
  Davis was ranked #2   Leonard #7
   Davis graded higher against the run, pass rush, and way higher in coverage.
     Kinda makes you a Homer.

PFF is garbage, they screw stuff up yearly. However, I do agree that Davis wasn’t deserving of mention, but I don’t see how 5 INTs with a Pick6 in just 13 games warrants much lower grade than a guy with just a couple more PBUs and only 1 INT in a full 16 games.