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I want number 10 in a Colts uniform next season.

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

That's fair... what is the respective price you would pay for all the QBs? Start with the highest ranked and then for the next one assume you missed on the previous one. 

 

Here are mine(absolute most I would give up):

Burrow - #13 + 2 future 1sts + one of our second + future 3d

Tua - no idea... if I had good certainty he will be healthy #13 + the 2 seconds(or 1 future 1st. whichever the team I'm trading with likes best). 

Love - #13 + one of the seconds

Herbert - #13 + 3d

Eason - #34 + 3d (in other words I'd try to get him at the end of the 1st by jumping with the WAS pick)

Fromm - 3d

Hurts -4th

...

 

 

That's pretty accurate imo. 

 

I wouldn't even attempt to go up and get Joe Burrow, price is just too astronomical and Ballard will never spend that kind of cap.

 

Tua I'd be willing to give up the latter 2nd and a future 1st, I'm certain he's one of the best to come out in the last few years. 

 

Herbert I wouldn't trade up for, but if he made it to 13 then so be it. I'm not sold on him. 

 

With Love, I'd wanna make the pick at 13 (BPA) and trade back in to grab him, essentially soending both 2nds.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I would never move up for TUA. To much uncertainty and injury prone.

 

Them everybody in football is injury prone. He has played every game of his life until this season, it's football people get hurt. Why does everyone keep saying that, I swear you guys just hear stuff then just keep regurgitating it with no actual research. C'mon.

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8 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

what part of “i need to see more” was unclear?

 

Okay. My initial post was snarky, so let me walk it back and make a more productive statement.

 

If you really want to see more from Herbert, there's plenty of video of him on Youtube. Just type "Justin Herbert vs" and a cut up of a couple dozen of his games will show up. That's going to be more representative of his ability as a QB than yesterday's bowl game was. You might still not like him. Just don't base your thinking of him off of any one game, good or bad.

 

And I say that assuming that you haven't already written him off because he didn't have an outstanding performance as a passer yesterday. 

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3 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I agree with your point and I've been keeping an eye on him all year as well.  I do have concerns that as a fourth year senior he didn't lead his team more.  I expected BIG things from him this year and we got flashes, moments. His tangibles are off the chart his intangibles leave me to wonder a bit. All in all I like him but not sure why as a fourth year senior he didn't have a larger impact on that team.  I hate talking draft Jan 1. :)

 

His intangibles have been called into question publicly. That's why I was glad to see him display some emotion. More than that, I was glad to see how happy his teammates were for him. He didn't have the biggest game, but he played with heart and the team responded to his energy. That factors into his ability to lead, especially if he's not going to be the most vocal leader.

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8 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Them everybody in football is injury prone. He has played every game of his life until this season, it's football people get hurt. Why does everyone keep saying that, I swear you guys just hear stuff then just keep regurgitating it with no actual research. C'mon.

 

Tua's been hurt a lot. This latest injury is by far the most serious one, but he's missed time with other injuries in the last couple of years. His ability to stay healthy would have been a question mark even without the hip injury.

 

By the way, if I had to bet, as of right now I'd say Tua stays. He's making his announcement on Monday.

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12 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

That's pretty accurate imo. 

 

I wouldn't even attempt to go up and get Joe Burrow, price is just too astronomical and Ballard will never spend that kind of cap.

 

Tua I'd be willing to give up the latter 2nd and a future 1st, I'm certain he's one of the best to come out in the last few years. 

 

Herbert I wouldn't trade up for, but if he made it to 13 then so be it. I'm not sold on him. 

 

With Love, I'd wanna make the pick at 13 (BPA) and trade back in to grab him, essentially soending both 2nds.

I like Love better than Herbert I think. Not right now but for the future. I feel like he's more of a gamer than Herbert. I don't know if it makes sense... I would rather have a QB I have to rein in a bit than one I have to push to be aggressive and there is a certain... passiveness in Herbert's game. It's weird, because he can be such an exciting player with his tools. 

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Tua's been hurt a lot. This latest injury is by far the most serious one, but he's missed time with other injuries in the last couple of years. His ability to stay healthy would have been a question mark even without the hip injury.

 

By the way, if I had to bet, as of right now I'd say Tua stays. He's making his announcement on Monday.

 

When? Tua hadn't missed a collegiate game til this year. 

 

Yeah, him staying definitely isn't the prudent move but it seems likely. That's more reason imo to forego QB this year and trade back in an effort to get as much draft capital as possible to make our run next year at Lawrence, Fields, or Tua. 

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37 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Alright, let's get technical then. We would actually have to trade with the Giants at 4 because both the Fins and Chargers are likely to take QB's. I'd be willing to pay that cost for Tua, but not Herbert. 

Here's an idea.  Trade with the Raiders to get Carr and let Gruden move up to the Giants pick.  

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2 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

When? Tua hadn't missed a collegiate game til this year. 

 

There were a handful of games he didn't finish last year due to injury, including the SEC Championship. Some of those the team was up big, so maybe he was held out as a precaution, but others were close games. They were actually behind in the SEC Championship against Georgia, and Jalen Hurts led the 4th quarter comeback.

 

Then this year, he had multiple injuries.

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Here's an idea.  Trade with the Raiders to get Carr and let Gruden move up to the Giants pick.  

 

I'm actually a huge fan of getting either Carr or Stafford, both are proven playmakers. This team is built to win now, with Andrew we would have been a SB contender. I say get one of those guys at QB and draft BPA to build around them. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

There were a handful of games he didn't finish last year due to injury, including the SEC Championship. Some of those the team was up big, so maybe he was held out as a precaution, but others were close games. They were actually behind in the SEC Championship against Georgia, and Jalen Hurts led the 4th quarter comeback.

 

Then this year, he had multiple injuries.

 

Give me an NFL quarterback that hasn't left a game or missed one with an injury. Not gonna be a long list, if you can even produce one. 

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Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I'm actually a huge fan of getting either Carr or Stafford, both are proven playmakers. This team is built to win now, with Andrew we would have been a SB contender. I say get one of those guys at QB and draft BPA to build around them. 

It's not really ready to win now.  But Irsay needs to create that illusion with a competent vet in order for the fans to stay engaged.  

 

I like the idea of getting either of those QBs, and we'll be competitive for winning the division or a wild card, but the defense isn't good enough to get deep into the playoffs yet.

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Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Give me an NFL quarterback that hasn't left a game or missed one with an injury. Not gonna be a long list, if you can even produce one. 

 

Why is that relevant? Yes, football players get hurt. Tua has had several leg injuries in two years. Do we ignore that?

 

My point is that there were going to be medical concerns about Tua before the hip injury. Add in the hip injury, those concerns are greatly magnified.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It's not really ready to win now.  But Irsay needs to create that illusion with a competent vet in order for the fans to stay engaged.  

 

I like the idea of getting either of those QBs, and we'll be competitive for winning the division or a wild card, but the defense isn't good enough to get deep into the playoffs yet.

 

Which is why we draft BPA to improve that, and spend a few dollars in FA. They're really young, a lot of prospective talent, there were a ton of injuries. 

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Why is that relevant? Yes, football players get hurt. Tua has had several leg injuries in two years. Do we ignore that?

 

My point is that there were going to be medical concerns about Tua before the hip injury. Add in the hip injury, those concerns are greatly magnified.

 

Because it's football, and that's what happens? That's the only thing that's relevant in this conversation. Guys get hurt, you can't discredit a high end talent because he got hurt, they essentially all do. Have you looked at why he got hurt? He shouldn't have been playing on the ankle, and had they not forced him back into action, he'd likely be fine atm. 

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Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Which is why we draft BPA to improve that, and spend a few dollars in FA. They're really young, a lot of prospective talent, there were a ton of injuries. 

I think we could contend for the division if we had a more competent thrower at QB.  But I think both HOU and TENN are getting better, so contending will be tougher.

 

And both BALT and KC are way ahead of us in terms of overall roster quality.

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1 minute ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Because it's football, and that's what happens? That's the only thing that's relevant in this conversation. Guys get hurt, you can't discredit a high end talent because he got hurt, they essentially all do. Have you looked at why he got hurt? He shouldn't have been playing on the ankle, and had they not forced him back into action, he'd likely be fine atm. 

 

I'm not discrediting him. And it doesn't really matter why he got hurt, the relevant questions are about his ability to be effective moving forward and the likelihood that he'll suffer from lingering effects of the injuries he's already had. 

 

You said people are just parroting talking points about his injury history, and that's not true. He's had several injuries that have caused him to miss time in the last two years, and that's a concern for any player going to the NFL. Especially a QB.

 

I'm not discrediting him, nor am I writing him off. Just accepting that his injury history is a concern, especially after the hip. 

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9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think we could contend for the division if we had a more competent thrower at QB.  But I think both HOU and TENN are getting better, so contending will be tougher.

 

And both BALT and KC are way ahead of us in terms of overall roster quality.

 

Can't argue with that, KC and BAL are the class of the division.

 

I feel like we're a good/great quarterback away from being in that boat. The team should be drastically improved heading into next season with just the 3 selections inside the Top 45, but we obviously have more picks and a good amount of cap space. 

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm not discrediting him. And it doesn't really matter why he got hurt, the relevant questions are about his ability to be effective moving forward and the likelihood that he'll suffer from lingering effects of the injuries he's already had. 

 

You said people are just parroting talking points about his injury history, and that's not true. He's had several injuries that have caused him to miss time in the last two years, and that's a concern for any player going to the NFL. Especially a QB.

 

I'm not discrediting him, nor am I writing him off. Just accepting that his injury history is a concern, especially after the hip. 

 

He's supposed to be healthy a few weeks before combines and pro days, so we will get to see. Assuming he declares, of course. 

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Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

He's supposed to be healthy a few weeks before combines and pro days, so we will get to see. Assuming he declares, of course. 

 

The chatter over the last few days has been that he's unlikely to be ready to throw before April. I hope he declares, but if I had to bet right now, I'd say he stays. We'll find out Monday.

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5 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Can't argue with that, KC and BAL are the class of the division.

 

I feel like we're a good/great quarterback away from being in that boat. The team should be drastically improved heading into next season with just the 3 selections inside the Top 45, but we obviously have more picks and a good amount of cap space. 

I don't think the crop of vet FA coming available are game changers.  There seems to not be a lot of help from that pool the past few years.  I suppose that's why Ballard hasn't signed many.

 

I wouldn't count on our top three picks to have the impact that our 2018 picks had.  I don't think we'll find a Nelson for the dline or a Leonard at WR.  I just think we are a few years away, provided that we hit on all three picks and find a QB.  That's 4 things that have to go right.

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1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Top 5? Nah. Burrow and Tua will likely go in the top 5, but most mocks have Herbert going between 6-11, which is definitely within striking distance. 

 

Looking at mocks at this point of the process is worthless. Stocks changes

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12 hours ago, IndySouthsider said:

Really? I watched a Walk -on toss 289 and 2Tds against them and didn’t see them all that special.

Ranked 16th (all conferences) in YPG, 5th in opponent completion %, and 4th in sacks.

Not sure when they played PU (your above WO), but I know they had significant injury the last half of the season IIRC and DL were in and out.

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14 hours ago, WoolMagnet said:

138 yards passing.

We have running backs.

i gotta see more to be sold.

The boards don't seem to be giving you much support on this, but I'm going to.  When I tuned in to the Rose Bowl, I was expecting to see Herbert playing, knowing that he's stepping into the spotlight, with a potential top 10 pick on the line.  And instead of throwing for amazing yards and touchdowns, he wound up running for them instead.  Yes, I understand that there's a greater body of work to study than just this one game.  But what I was thinking was that This One Game is against better players than what he would play against all season.  And he's expected to play at the next level.  Against players that are even better than this.  He ought to shine, not wither.  True, it's not just about him.  If his WR's can't get open against the Wisconsin DB's, then there's not a whole lot he can do about it.  But my bottom line is:  I had a "Watson toasted Alabama two straight years in bowl games" level of expectation for someone getting ready to be picked in the top 10, and I didn't see it.  Makes me want to take more than a second look.

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3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Okay. My initial post was snarky, so let me walk it back and make a more productive statement.

 

If you really want to see more from Herbert, there's plenty of video of him on Youtube. Just type "Justin Herbert vs" and a cut up of a couple dozen of his games will show up. That's going to be more representative of his ability as a QB than yesterday's bowl game was. You might still not like him. Just don't base your thinking of him off of any one game, good or bad.

 

And I say that assuming that you haven't already written him off because he didn't have an outstanding performance as a passer yesterday. 

Im planning on looking at all the “better” ones.

Finding time is the hard part.

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I am sorry but I have to say this.  Why are we moving a thread about the Colts draft to another thread?  This forum name is Colts Football and it says "All things Colts football".  It does not say "All things Colts football except Draft, Scouting, and Free Agency talk."  Always amazes me when something like this is moved.  It was where it belonged.  Period.  Quit messing with stuff.  No reason to move.  This whole website has went straight downhill since the change.  No more desktop wallpapers unless you want them on a stupid phone or tablet.  Horrible navigation.  Awful desktop wallpapers.  Basically I don't come here much since it has been ruined, but when I do and see this I wonder what the heck are you all thinking who work on this?  Its an awful website and has been ruined.

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Here's an interesting stat and thoughts on Herbert by Mike Renner and Bradu Quinn:

 

 

 

 

 

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He will be gone before our pick. Especially if Tua goes back for his senior year.

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22 minutes ago, stitches said:

Here's an interesting stat and thoughts on Herbert by Mike Renner and Bradu Quinn:

 

 

 

 

 

I think screen passes are important. Have to be able throw down field also. I think Herbert and Love can both do that. Interesting that he could do better in a different offense then Oregon’s. That is actually what I have heard people say.

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2 hours ago, Hooksalot said:

I am sorry but I have to say this.  Why are we moving a thread about the Colts draft to another thread?  This forum name is Colts Football and it says "All things Colts football".  It does not say "All things Colts football except Draft, Scouting, and Free Agency talk."  Always amazes me when something like this is moved.  It was where it belonged.  Period.  Quit messing with stuff.  No reason to move.  This whole website has went straight downhill since the change.  No more desktop wallpapers unless you want them on a stupid phone or tablet.  Horrible navigation.  Awful desktop wallpapers.  Basically I don't come here much since it has been ruined, but when I do and see this I wonder what the heck are you all thinking who work on this?  Its an awful website and has been ruined.

And get off his lawn, ya hoodlums!

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10 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

That's pretty accurate imo. 

 

I wouldn't even attempt to go up and get Joe Burrow, price is just too astronomical and Ballard will never spend that kind of cap.

 

Agreed!

10 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Tua I'd be willing to give up the latter 2nd and a future 1st, I'm certain he's one of the best to come out in the last few years. 

Agreed Again!

10 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Herbert I wouldn't trade up for, but if he made it to 13 then so be it. I'm not sold on him. 

Yep

10 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

With Love, I'd wanna make the pick at 13 (BPA) and trade back in to grab him, essentially soending both 2nds.

I think NE is going fishing in this draft in round 1.........   If you do the 4th option, you have to be below them......  

 

But.....  If Tua is no shot .......  I would like your 4th choice best.......   There are some great WRs and a couple of DTs that we would need to choose between

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I was watching the strong opinions sports podcast today and he mentioned what would happen if Burrow pulled a Eli Manning and refused to play for the Bengals?  That would be quite interesting.

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I was watching the strong opinions sports podcast today and he mentioned what would happen if Burrow pulled a Eli Manning and refused to play for the Bengals?  That would be quite interesting.

 

He doesn't have the clout to pull something like that off like a Manning could, nor does he have a backup plan to do that. Elway and Bo did it because they could both go play major league baseball. In my opinion, Eli's deal was more he didn't want to be in the same conference as Peyton rather than playing in San Diego. They wanted a chance at a Manning-bowl.

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21 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

He doesn't have the clout to pull something like that off like a Manning could, nor does he have a backup plan to do that. Elway and Bo did it because they could both go play major league baseball. In my opinion, Eli's deal was more he didn't want to be in the same conference as Peyton rather than playing in San Diego. They wanted a chance at a Manning-bowl.

Yes he does. He is the number pick. He has control. Teams below the bengals would take him in a second.  Chargers were dumb and didn’t believe ELI and took him anyway

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15 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think that Wisconsin defense was so good he just had a hard time passing and had to rely on his legs. He doesn’t have great weapons. OSU did the same thing to Lawrence the other day. Lawrence and Herbert has pretty much the same game. I would be ok with Herbert. I just really want Love. He looks special to me.

Was unimpressed  with Lawrence  versus  ohio state

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yes he does. He is the number pick. He has control. Teams below the bengals would take him in a second.  Chargers were dumb and didn’t believe ELI and took him anyway

 

The NFL is not about to let that start happening.. 

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I'm not overly impressed with Herbert.  Seems like the big prototypical QB who's numbers never quite live up to his measurables.  I'll need to do some more research on him.  But I sure as hell hope we aren't crazy enough to move up for him & I'm not taking him over a sure fire DT or WR & depending on what AC decides a LT.

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8 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

The NFL is not about to let that start happening.. 

You do understand the nfl has no control of a player says if you draft me I am not signing with you. It’s been done before.

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7 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I'm not overly impressed with Herbert.  Seems like the big prototypical QB who's numbers never quite live up to his measurables.  I'll need to do some more research on him.  But I sure as hell hope we aren't crazy enough to move up for him & I'm not taking him over a sure fire DT or WR & depending on what AC decides a LT.

Everything I have read is that Oregon offense holds him back. Once he gets into a offense that is made to his strengths he will flourish even more.

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Banogu -- like Turay, the guy is a very solid athlete who was pretty raw coming out of college.  I anticipate he'll make a similar jump in year 2.   Xavier Rhodes -- not sure if I'd call it a breakout year, as he's been an all-pro before.  Even though he was a probowler last year, it was his worst season to date.. I think he'll fit in very well with this D.   Grover Stewart -- He was a project pick and really started to develop last year.  I think having Buckner next to him will really help him step up.   Autry -- Hunt played pretty terrible last year (or at least digressed from his 2018), and I don't think it had positive effects on Autry.. having Buckner and a healthy Turay along with Justin Houston and others should really help him out.   Le'Raven Clark -- I don't know if he'll see the field, but I won't be shocked at all if replaces Glow, or if Smith moves to RG and Clark moves to RT.     Trey Burton -- he's a Reich guy and (if healthy) I think he can be a very good fit on this offense.   Asthon Dulin -- Don't think he'll be on the field much on O, but he was definitely improving last year.  I do, however, think he'll crack our roster and contribute significantly on STs.   Reece Fountain/Pascal -- I think these guys will be in the 4-6 WR roles, but, with improved QB play and with the addition of Pittman and Patmon, and the hopeful healthiness of TY and Pascal, I think when these guys are on the field, they'll have a lot better chance of being put in favorable matchups.  I thought Pascal played well last year, but with JB digressing as the season went on and with him sometimes being utilized as our #1 WR, I don't think he had the best situation.   Marlon Mack -- I don't know that his stats will go up, per se... but I think with the addition of Taylor (both taking workload off Mack and being a different type of back), that when Mack gets his number called, he's going to be very successful.   *I won't be shocked if Fountain and/or Dulin don't make the team, but if they do, I think they'll be all right for us and improved from last year (maybe not 'breakouts', but certainly should be in better positions with improved QB play and supporting cast).
    • Very glad to see how much influence Mathis has had on Turay.  It's always cool to see an ex-Colt great contributing and helping out our young talent.  Seems as though Reggie helps a bit, but I don't recall anyone like Mathis who remained so involved with the horseshoe and helping develop young talent so much.   Also, very cool to hear how appreciative Turay is of Mathis.  He seems like a good dude.
    • Part of what makes a player great over his career is longevity.  The rule of thumb I have always heard for HOF selection is 'a decade of dominance.'  Unless you really change the game, you have to have ~a decade of being an elite player to get in (an exception may be a guy like Megatron, because his combo of size, speed, power, hands, etc. in some ways revolutionized the game of football).   Leonard is certainly off to a good start.. and by a stats comparison, a better start than Lewis.  Lewis was not an all-pro (first or second team) as a rookie.  He was 2nd team in his 2nd and 3rd years, and again in 2010.  He was first team 7 times.   Leonard was a first team all pro as a rookie, which is very rare.  He was 2nd team in year 2, a year in which he missed 3+ games.  Leonard was the defensive rookie of the year (Simeon Rice got that award when Lewis was a rookie).  At the same points in their careers, Leonard has proven to be better at causing turnovers (his INT numbers are outstanding for a LBer)... but, he also plays in a different scheme and a different position (most of the time), so that's hard to really judge.   Lewis was a 2x NFL Defensive Player of the Year.  Leonard has not done that yet.  I don't doubt that he's capable of it, but he hasn't.  Lewis was a 2x Superbowl Champion and a 1x SB MVP, both things which Leonard hasn't accomplished.  Lewis was a 13x pro-bowler.. like Leonard, he missed out his rookie year.  Lewis is also on the 2000's all-decade team as the best at his position during that decade.   In terms of off-field stuff, Leonard seems to have less baggage than Lewis did at a young age.  That said, Lewis did seem to clean up his act after that alleged murder incident.  He also seems to be a pretty solid guy now and has several charities and does a lot for young minority communities.     In terms of on-field leadership, Lewis was outstanding.  I don't know how long that took, as I don't follow Baltimore as intensely as I do Indy (i.e., was he a captain in his second year and a tremendous leader of men as a rookie? I don't know).  Leonard, was named team captain in his 2nd year, and he was a leader right out of the gates.  From all interviews and things I've read, his coaches and teammates view him as the leader of the Indy D and seemingly have after just a few games as a rookie -- that's rare.   In short, Leonard is off to a heckuva start to his career.... but, let's hold off on comparing him to a first-ballot HOFer.  If he keeps it up for another 8-12 years, this thread deserves to be revisited.  
    • I am not calling Barkley a choker because when he went to  Philly they were not the same team that had won the finale in 1983. When he played for Phoenix they were a 50% team. His last 4 years with Houston he only stated 152 games in four years due to injury. He averaged 22.1 pts and 11.7 rebounds in his career. In the playoffs he averaged 23 pts and 12.9 rebounds.  He was the rebound leader in 1987 at 6'5".  He was the MVP in 1993. He also was the team leader for both Gold Medals in the Olympics in 1992 and 1996.  Sorry IMO those are not choker numbers. 
    • I find it very unlikely a team signs Kelly off our practice squad. If we want to run 3 QBs and keep Kelly on the PS we probably can.
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