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13 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Lawrence playing against mediocre agsinst average teams doesn't bother me. Hell i

Yes, I think they would draft Lawrence and unload Burrows.  I mean if they drafted Burrows and were picking #1 again in 2021, how valuable could he  be?? I also think they would turn down multiple #1's.  Let's say they Clemson wins it this and next year and Lawrence wins the Heisman, he will b untouchable. I have watched him and he is legit. He goes through his reads, is athletic, cannon for an arm and a great leader.  That throw he made against Ohio running and throwing against his body for a touchdown.....wow.  Maybe a couple of qbs in the NFL make that. 

It's all hypothetical like above, but what if:

1. Clemson gets beat handily by LSU (LSU is 5.5pt favs)

2. Lawrence has another slow spot or two next year

3. Fields wins the Heisman next year

4. Clemson doesn't win the NC next year

5. Fields wins the Heisman and NC, while having better stats all year. 

 

Sure Lawrence may still go 1st, but the gap is not wide between TL and others like Fields, nor will he be that much more attractive than a young guy like Burrow.

 

On Burrow not being valuable if Cinci has a crap record.... Lot's of great QBs have played on horrible teams. Cinci is a horrible team. 

 

Last point.. TL didn't have an amazing game vs OSU. Take away his 67 yard run, and they likely lose. Etienne was the star of that game. Lawrence did what he had to , but he wasn't a prolific passer without Etienne's YAC. To add, Fields lost the game with his 2 INTs. OSU beat them in most stats. I don't see Burrow or LSU making those kind of mistakes.

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

It's all hypothetical like above, but what if:

1. Clemson gets beat handily by LSU (LSU is 5.5pt favs)

2. Lawrence has another slow spot or two next year

3. Fields wins the Heisman next year

4. Clemson doesn't win the NC next year

5. Fields wins the Heisman and NC, while having better stats all year. 

 

Sure Lawrence may still go 1st, but the gap is not wide between TL and others like Fields, nor will he be that much more attractive than a young guy like Burrow.

 

On Burrow not being valuable if Cinci has a crap record.... Lot's of great QBs have played on horrible teams. Cinci is a horrible team. 

 

Last point.. TL didn't have an amazing game vs OSU. Take away his 67 yard run, and they likely lose. Etienne was the star of that game. Lawrence did what he had to , but he wasn't a prolific passer without Etienne's YAC. To add, Fields lost the game with his 2 INTs. OSU beat them in most stats. I don't see Burrow or LSU making those kind of mistakes.

When Luxk was about to be drafted, there were some who thought RG3 was better. Lawrence will b the consensus #1 and there will b no debate. That will b my prediction

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21 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

When Luxk was about to be drafted, there were some who thought RG3 was better. Lawrence will b the consensus #1 and there will b no debate. That will b my prediction

Anyone who though RG3 was better than Luck had a hole an their head, and IIRC, just about every mock still had Luck as the 1st pick. That said, RG3 would have fared much better being drafted by a decent team with the right scheme. Washington basically ruined him.

 

Fields is very different than RG3 IMO. RG3 was a Baylor scheme product. Fields IMO is a better passer.

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Last point.. TL didn't have an amazing game vs OSU. Take away his 67 yard run, and they likely lose. Etienne was the star of that game. Lawrence did what he had to , but he wasn't a prolific passer without Etienne's YAC. To add, Fields lost the game with his 2 INTs. OSU beat them in most stats. I don't see Burrow or LSU making those kind of mistakes.

 

Eh... The run didn't really matter. Dobbins dropped 2 passes that should have been TD's. You can't rely on FG's in those games. See Wisconsin against Oregon last night. I don't put much blame on Fields on the 2nd INT. Olave broke off his route after Fields threw the ball. Granted it would have been contested, but had Olave not went the other way, he could have contended for that ball. 

 

23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Fields IMO is a better passer.

 

I think RG3 could have been just as good within Ryan Day's offense. Fields drove both I and MANY other Buckeye fans nuts with how much he holds on to the ball trying to make a play. He took A LOT of unnecessary hits and bad sacks this past year because of that. He HAS to process faster, and if nothing is there, throw it away or use his legs and get up field. I will say, if he continues his trajectory, and continues getting better, which I believe he will as he'll be more comfortable within Day's system, I could see him overtaking TL as the top QB in the nation next year. 

 

Also, I think TL has a much better game against LSU than he did against OSU. LSU's defense isn't that good. 

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What was good about Herbert last night was he didn’t have much help and he willed his team to a win. That’s what you want to see from the QB position.

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Colin has a good point here on Herbert. Having 32 TD and doesn’t have the weapons Is pretty impression.

 

 

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3 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Eh... The run didn't really matter. Dobbins dropped 2 passes that should have been TD's. You can't rely on FG's in those games. See Wisconsin against Oregon last night. I don't put much blame on Fields on the 2nd INT. Olave broke off his route after Fields threw the ball. Granted it would have been contested, but had Olave not went the other way, he could have contended for that ball. 

 

 

I think RG3 could have been just as good within Ryan Day's offense. Fields drove both I and MANY other Buckeye fans nuts with how much he holds on to the ball trying to make a play. He took A LOT of unnecessary hits and bad sacks this past year because of that. He HAS to process faster, and if nothing is there, throw it away or use his legs and get up field. I will say, if he continues his trajectory, and continues getting better, which I believe he will as he'll be more comfortable within Day's system, I could see him overtaking TL as the top QB in the nation next year. 

 

Also, I think TL has a much better game against LSU than he did against OSU. LSU's defense isn't that good. 

That TL run was fluky, and was the difference in the game.

 

I don't know however if he will have a better game vs LSU. Don't get me wrong, OSU's D is good, but the big 10 if full of bad Os, so their D ranking if padded/fluffed this year. LSU played several very physical OLs and Os. I do think TL will get his, but I think LSU has absolutely the best set of DBs that they will face all year. More INTs than OSU.

 

I agree with you on Fields in every way. Needs to process faster, but could overtake TL is he continues improving. I think TL has kinda plateaued, where I see Fields as having decent room to still grow and get better. 

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Colin has a good point here on Herbert. Having 32 TD and doesn’t have the weapons Is pretty impression.

 

 

 

If he had the surrounding cast that many of OR's team have had in the past, his numbers would be off the charts. They are still pretty darn good. The only thing about Herbert that worries me at all, is the scheme he comes from. But honestly I'm not really worried about that. 

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27 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

If he had the surrounding cast that many of OR's team have had in the past, his numbers would be off the charts. They are still pretty darn good. The only thing about Herbert that worries me at all, is the scheme he comes from. But honestly I'm not really worried about that. 

There was something posted in the other thread. It says Oregon’s offense actually shows more of his weaknesses. It says when he goes to the nfl and a offense is built around him it will look totally different. That is really encouraging.

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

That TL run was fluky, and was the difference in the game.

 

Agree to disagree.. the targeting call and the overturned fumble call were much bigger than that. The run was a fantastic play call and one that caught OSU off guard. Wisconsin had success with it in the B1G title game in the first half, so I'm sure Clemson took notice with it. 

 

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't know however if he will have a better game vs LSU. Don't get me wrong, OSU's D is good, but the big 10 if full of bad Os, so their D ranking if padded/fluffed this year. LSU played several very physical OLs and Os. I do think TL will get his, but I think LSU has absolutely the best set of DBs that they will face all year. More INTs than OSU.

 

Bias aside, but outside of the LB group, OSU is better across the board on defense. Are you really hanging your hat on 2 more INT's overall? Tell me the sack difference? Hard to get picks when the opposing QB is on his back. LSU gave up almost 700 yards and 37 points to an Ole Miss team who has no idea how to throw a football. They gave up 38 to both Texas and an awful Vanderbilt team. Sorry, but that defense isn't that good. I could easily see Clemson doing to LSU what they did to Alabama last year. 

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

There was something posted in the other thread. It says Oregon’s offense actually shows more of his weaknesses. It says when he goes to the nfl and a offense is built around him it will look totally different. That is really encouraging.

That's what I meant by scheme. It's not suited to him, so him in something else is a bit of a wildcard. 

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Agree to disagree.. the targeting call and the overturned fumble call were much bigger than that. The run was a fantastic play call and one that caught OSU off guard. Wisconsin had success with it in the B1G title game in the first half, so I'm sure Clemson took notice with it. 

Anything that is extremely out of the ordinary is fluky to me. And TL running for 60+ yards for a TD is about as out of the ordinary as can be. No?

 

2 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Bias aside, but outside of the LB group, OSU is better across the board on defense. Are you really hanging your hat on 2 more INT's overall? Tell me the sack difference? Hard to get picks when the opposing QB is on his back. LSU gave up almost 700 yards and 37 points to an Ole Miss team who has no idea how to throw a football. They gave up 38 to both Texas and an awful Vanderbilt team. Sorry, but that defense isn't that good. I could easily see Clemson doing to LSU what they did to Alabama last year. 

I'm not hanging my hat on a few more here or there. I'm hanging my hat OSU playing either very one sided Os, or non-physical Os, most of the year. LSU across the board is not great on D, but they did limit Tua to a sub 50 QBR, and INT'd him. They also limited Fromm (who is typically very careful) to a 30ish QBR and picked him twice. Those are two teams with great OLs and WRs.

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18 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm hanging my hat OSU playing either very one sided Os, or non-physical Os, most of the year.

 

Haha.. OSU isn't the one still scheduling FCS schools nor average mid-major programs. The Big 10 teams can play anywhere, but I would love to see those southern schools come up north and play in the elements in November/December. Talk about seeing one-sided and physical.. haha

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4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Colin has a good point here on Herbert. Having 32 TD and doesn’t have the weapons Is pretty impression.

 

 

Yeah he seems high on Herbert as he had the other segment where the guest he had on talked him up. I think he brings up a good point about Herbert that you can also apply to Love. He didn’t have the supporting cast that Tua, Trevor, Fields, And Burrow have.

 

Makes you wonder what would happen if you put real talent around him and open up the playbook.

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I wish the draft was here. I am so anxious to see what goes down. Ballard did say they liked a few of the QB this year. I just want a exciting season next year.

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1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Haha.. OSU isn't the one still scheduling FCS schools nor average mid-major programs. The Big 10 teams can play anywhere, but I would love to see those southern schools come up north and play in the elements in November/December. Talk about seeing one-sided and physical.. haha

I've personally been to 30+ B10 games (I graduated from a B10 school 25 years ago, and still go from time to tme), moved south and have been to 20+ SEC games (mostly UT and UGA and whomever they play). Probably a lot more of both. Anyway, seen a lot of games in person, and a lot more on TV. And I've seen 20+ ND games.... Very well seasoned on both leagues.

 

While I agree the SEC are a bunch woosies for not travelling north more, the SEC has beat the B10 head to head a lot more than vice versa, especially in the 80s and 2010s. OSU, the crown jewel of the Big10 is 5-11 vs the SEC. Historically, only scUM and MN have winning record vs the SEC. 

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What I don't understand is how many people on here talk about Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Love, Eason, and others, but ignore the fact we have a better qb than those guys already on the roster. Pull up Chad Kelly's games from Ole' Miss and you will see his ability is on par or far exceeds these top prospects in this years draft. I know he's had off field issues in the past and that is probably why he is here now, but for sheer ability and talent he is better than any of these prospects this year. And apparently he has been a model teammate and citizen since arriving.

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