The Case for Derek Carr

[ztboiler]

Seems like the best path if Oakland wants a fresh start.  @chad72 has championed this idea and I don’t know why it doesn’t have more traction 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

I have mentioned a couple of times that if the Colts go the route of getting a FA or trading for a QB, he is who I like.  I think it is not getting any traction because I think everyone know that Ballard is not the type of GM to make a move like this.

[MPStack]

1. Is he really available?

2. Will the Colts cut Brissett? They already have 26.5M combined with Brissett and Hoyer in 2020.

3. Compensation for getting Carr? He won’t be had for cheap! 
 

I don’t hate it or necessary love the idea, but he’d be an upgrade. 

[BleedBlue4Shoe86]

11 minutes ago, MPStack said:

1. Is he really available?

2. Will the Colts cut Brissett? They already have 26.5M combined with Brissett and Hoyer in 2020.

3. Compensation for getting Carr? He won’t be had for cheap! 
 

I don’t hate it or necessary love the idea, but he’d be an upgrade. 

These are all great points.  I think when it comes to trading for a QB it is all talk because we don't know if he is actually available.

 

GREAT POINTS

[DougDew]

Offer pick 34, eat JBs contract and trade him as Gruden's backup Qb to mentor his new Qb, and include Hooker since Gruden could be enamored with his potential splash-play ability and 5th year option.  Maybe also a mid rounder next season.

[ztboiler]

18 minutes ago, MPStack said:

1. Is he really available?

2. Will the Colts cut Brissett? They already have 26.5M combined with Brissett and Hoyer in 2020.

3. Compensation for getting Carr? He won’t be had for cheap! 
 

I don’t hate it or necessary love the idea, but he’d be an upgrade. 

Drafting at 13...nobody is available.  It’s all hypothetical.

 

Brissett and Hoyer are quite dispensable, yes, and neither have contracts designed to be burdensome if cut.

 

Of course it depends on compensation for Carr...trades always do...

[MPStack]

2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Drafting at 13...nobody is available.  It’s all hypothetical.

Clarify nobody is available?

2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Brissett and Hoyer are quite dispensable, yes, and neither have contracts designed to be burdensome if cut.

Agreed! 

Either can be cut with little CAP ramifications.

2 minutes ago, ztboiler said:

Of course it depends on compensation for Carr...trades always do...

8th in total passing Yds and first in completion 70%.
 

Carr won’t be had for a 3rd. 
 

 

[WarGhost21]

I’d be all for making a deal for Carr. It seems possible that Gruden will want a change under center with their move to Vegas, but it’s still a big if. After that, it settles down to compensation (likely at least a 2nd), and also team cost. Overall, I see there being a very, very small chance of this happening, but it is still possible

[ztboiler]

44 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Clarify nobody is available?

Agreed! 

Either can be cut with little CAP ramifications.

8th in total passing Yds and first in completion 70%.
 

Carr won’t be had for a 3rd. 
 

 

Nobody is available at 13...meaning we have no idea who is available when we’re on the clock anyway...it’s just as uncertain as the trade compensation to get Carr or whether Gruden will trade him or not.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I have mentioned a couple of times that if the Colts go the route of getting a FA or trading for a QB, he is who I like.  I think it is not getting any traction because I think everyone know that Ballard is not the type of GM to make a move like this.

He is the QB who I would like as well.  Of course he has to be available and we don't know if he is.  We do know Gruden traded Mack so with him I guess anything is possible.  The big question is does Ballard feel he has the support of Irsay to try and draft a QB and give him time to develop.  It could take years.  Carr and this draft and FA could make us contenders right away next year.  We don't know if Ballard is the type of GM to make a move like this or not.  He came because of Luck and now he's gone.  Everything has changed.  I wouldn't rule it out unless we hear for sure that Gruden is staying with Carr. 

[DownHillRunner]

If Gruden and Mayock make Carr available Ballard should definitely consider trading for him. Carr is a mobile Quarterback with a great arm, great awareness, and he will be playing behind a much younger offensive line opposed to the offensive line he had in Oakland. 

 

This is just my opinion, only three Quarterbacks should go in the first round. Burrow (Slam Dunk Bengals), Tua (Still a first round pick despite his injury Dolphins), and Herbert (Chargers because they'll most likely move on from Rivers)  The rest of the Quarterbacks are day 2 and day 3 picks. 

 

I'd be shocked if Ballard selected a Quarterback such as Fromm, Love, or Eason with the 13th pick, unless he is blown away by the pro day, combine, etc. 

[Reboot]

Carr is a 39-55 QB with not a single playoff start to his credit.  He is Jacoby Brissett, and every other .500ish (sub) QB who shows flashes, and then disappoints.  He's had the likes of Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, Jared Cook, Waller, Jacobs, Lynch, and Murray as weapons.  The Raiders,  albeit temporarily, made him the highest paid QB when his current deal was signed.  He's had a lot of support and a lot of talent on those rosters for them to be as bad as they've been.  His fault?  Of course not.  But he's a part of exactly the same problem in Oakland as JB is here.  This discussion is akin to shuffling chairs on the Titanic.    

 

[ztboiler]

14 minutes ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

Carr is a 39-55 QB with not a single playoff start to his credit.  He is Jacoby Brissett, and every other .500ish (sub) QB who shows flashes, and then disappoints.  He's had the likes of Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, Jared Cook, Waller, Jacobs, Lynch, and Murray as weapons.  The Raiders,  albeit temporarily, made him the highest paid QB when his current deal was signed.  He's had a lot of support and a lot of talent on those rosters for them to be as bad as they've been.  His fault?  Of course not.  But he's a part of exactly the same problem in Oakland as JB is here.  This discussion is akin to shuffling chairs on the Titanic.    

 

Poor comparison.  

Carr played stellar football in 2016, leading the Raiders to 12 wins and the playoffs before suffering the devastating injury against us in week 16.

 

Things didn’t comeback together for the Raiders in 2017 at the same level...that happens in the NFL....and we all know that the team was parted out in 2018.

 

Simply no comparison to JB on any level.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This would be a upgrade but does he really excite anyone.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

This would be a upgrade but does he really excite anyone.

Yes.  For sure.

[Reboot]

1 minute ago, ztboiler said:

Poor comparison.  

Carr played stellar football in 2016, leading the Raiders to 12 wins and the playoffs before suffering the devastating injury against us in week 16.

 

Things didn’t comeback together for the Raiders in 2017 at the same level...that happens in the NFL....and we all know that the team was parted out in 2018.

 

Simply no comparison to JB on any level.

 

I'm not suggesting that Carr isn't a better QB, more gifted physically.  I don't think decision making is any different.  Feel.  Awareness.  What I am saying is none of that physical superiority has mattered one bit so far.  Carr wins 41% of his games.  JB wins 38%.  Those are comparable results.   In a sport where all that matters is results, winning.  We can continue to pretend like Carr would be some savior, some huge upgrade, be the answer at QB, I get it, it's a fan forum, and hyperbole rules the day.  I'm just not jumping on the Carr to the rescue bandwagon. 

[Jdubu]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Offer pick 34, eat JBs contract and trade him as Gruden's backup Qb to mentor his new Qb, and include Hooker since Gruden could be enamored with his potential splash-play ability and 5th year option.  Maybe also a mid rounder next season.

Jeez, maybe a spa package for life and a years supply of his favorite sports drink. If the Raiders are going to part with him then we can work out a deal no doubt but I don’t see us giving that 34th pick, JB, Hooker, a pick next year for a guy they are ready to move on from. Maybe Peyton will go hang out with him and ask for a favor for the colts as he has always loved Peyton too. 

5 hours ago, MPStack said:

Clarify nobody is available?

Agreed! 

Either can be cut with little CAP ramifications.

8th in total passing Yds and first in completion 70%.
 

Carr won’t be had for a 3rd. 
 

 

I’d give our 2nd rounder and Hoyer or JB (his choice) if he wanted a vet of sorts for his new QB. I like Carr and would certainly welcome him here but I’m not giving away too much for a guy that we know his ceiling. He isn’t manning but also isn’t JB. With a better protecting oline, he may fit in here to Reichs system much better than he has Grudens. Never know but lots of risks. 

1 hour ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

Carr is a 39-55 QB with not a single playoff start to his credit.  He is Jacoby Brissett, and every other .500ish (sub) QB who shows flashes, and then disappoints.  He's had the likes of Amari Cooper, Michael Crabtree, Jared Cook, Waller, Jacobs, Lynch, and Murray as weapons.  The Raiders,  albeit temporarily, made him the highest paid QB when his current deal was signed.  He's had a lot of support and a lot of talent on those rosters for them to be as bad as they've been.  His fault?  Of course not.  But he's a part of exactly the same problem in Oakland as JB is here.  This discussion is akin to shuffling chairs on the Titanic.    

 

Was it 2016 that has Carr as an MVP kind of year and had his team favored to go do big things towards a Super Bowl run until he had a freak accident against us. He is an above avg QB and he has shown more than a game or two flash, he has had a season of it and several games in between with a dysfunctional team on the west coast. This move would be way better than the shuffling of chairs. 

[Jackie Daytona]

Carr is ok, and any upgrade to JB would be welcome.... But it's gonna take more than one case before I get excited about Carr I'm afraid.

[Thunderbolt]

Put it to rest guys, D. Carr is not coming to Indy. He'll be snatched up by NE, as TBs successor...There are a lot of QBs to be drafted and develop, it's just a matter of who the QB is, it could be From, Eason Herbert, Hurts, just to name a few. I am sure one of them will be available for us.  Anyone of them is an upgrade than what we have.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Jdubu]

53 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Carr is ok, and any upgrade to JB would be welcome.... But it's gonna take more than one case before I get excited about Carr I'm afraid.

I think this team could go far with a guy such as Carr. We don’t need a Luck/Manning guy, although it would be great, but we do need a guy that is well above the level of JB. If we had a scale of 1-10, we could label Luck a 9 and JB a 3 and Carr a 6. I’d be fine at that level while we also build up the defense too. We got the oline and a decent run game. A guy who can make the defenses concerned enough not to stack and blitz the line every snap would go a long way into improving both the run and pass game. A Carr type player can win a SB with the right team. Carr I think could have had that team just a few years ago. He is capable. JB has shown he is not capable. 

[jchandler7]

I would love to have Carr in a Colts uniform next year. 

[EastStreet]

I'd take Carr in a heartbeat. 

He'd be good in Reich's system. 

His Nextgen charts are pretty darn good for 2019.

I still don't think Gruden will draft a replacement.

[Stephen]

10 hours ago, DownHillRunner said:

If Gruden and Mayock make Carr available Ballard should definitely consider trading for him. Carr is a mobile Quarterback with a great arm, great awareness, and he will be playing behind a much younger offensive line opposed to the offensive line he had in Oakland. 

 

This is just my opinion, only three Quarterbacks should go in the first round. Burrow (Slam Dunk Bengals), Tua (Still a first round pick despite his injury Dolphins), and Herbert (Chargers because they'll most likely move on from Rivers)  The rest of the Quarterbacks are day 2 and day 3 picks. 

 

I'd be shocked if Ballard selected a Quarterback such as Fromm, Love, or Eason with the 13th pick, unless he is blown away by the pro day, combine, etc. 

Some mocks have love going to the dolphins 

[NewColtsFan]

12 hours ago, ztboiler said:

Seems like the best path if Oakland wants a fresh start.  @chad72 has championed this idea and I don’t know why it doesn’t have more traction 

 

I don't think anyone has to work hard to make a strong case for Derek Carr.   He's had two very good seasons in a row.

 

I think the problem is,  Ballard is not going to want to pay the price that Oakland will likely ask.   My guess is the Raiders will want TWO #1's and more...   a 2 and maybe even a 3 as well.

 

Not sure I see Ballard loving Carr THAT much.

[coltsfanej]

If he could be had for a 2nd, JB and a 4th I'd be tickled. Idk if Id want to give up a first. But a second and some change? Absolutely. I believe he'd be a definite upgrade. 

[ztboiler]

32 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think anyone has to work hard to make a strong case for Derek Carr.   He's had two very good seasons in a row.

 

I think the problem is,  Ballard is not going to want to pay the price that Oakland will likely ask.   My guess is the Raiders will want TWO #1's and more...   a 2 and maybe even a 3 as well.

 

Not sure I see Ballard loving Carr THAT much.

Cmon now...

The price may be too high at the end of the day, and Gruden may want something silly like that...but Carr has only had one year in 6 where he looked like a surefire franchise QB.

 

There is no market for him to generate that kind of trade compensation.  Maybe a 1.  Maybe.  But his market is probably more like Garrapolo’s was.  Potential to be a franchise guy but unproven.

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ztboiler said:

Cmon now...

The price may be too high at the end of the day, and Gruden may want something silly like that...but Carr has only had one year in 6 where he looked like a surefire franchise QB.

 

There is no market for him to generate that kind of trade compensation.  Maybe a 1.  Maybe.  But his market is probably more like Garrapolo’s was.  Potential to be a franchise guy but unproven.

If you look at his numbers, Carr’s last two seasons have been excellent.   So while my asking price may be too high, I think yours is going to be much lower than will be needed.

 

Maybe there’s a midway point between the two?   Just not sure how much Ballard will be willing to pay? 

[Jason_]

16 hours ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

 

I'm not suggesting that Carr isn't a better QB, more gifted physically.  I don't think decision making is any different.  Feel.  Awareness.  What I am saying is none of that physical superiority has mattered one bit so far.  Carr wins 41% of his games.  JB wins 38%.  Those are comparable results.   In a sport where all that matters is results, winning.  We can continue to pretend like Carr would be some savior, some huge upgrade, be the answer at QB, I get it, it's a fan forum, and hyperbole rules the day.  I'm just not jumping on the Carr to the rescue bandwagon. 

 

win/loss percentage (a team stat, not a QB stat) is among the worst ways to judge a QB.  That "stat" doesn't have the slightest significance in the conversation.

[Jdubu]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you look at his numbers, Carr’s last two seasons have been excellent.   So while my asking price may be too high, I think yours is going to be much lower than will be needed.

 

Maybe there’s a midway point between the two?   Just not sure how much Ballard will be willing to pay? 

I will throw this out there as the wrinkle in the trade. Raiders draft right before us. It’s conceivable that the Raiders draft a QB with the deal set up that we give our 2nd Rd pick, a 5th rd pick, if they want JB I’m throwing him in and maybe one of those extra 7th rounders we seem to always have. 
 

if the Raiders guy doesn’t fall to them, whoever that may be, the deal is off and we handle our draft plan B option. It’s better that they draft ahead of us because it kind of forces their hand first imho. 

[richard pallo]

13 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

I will throw this out there as the wrinkle in the trade. Raiders draft right before us. It’s conceivable that the Raiders draft a QB with the deal set up that we give our 2nd Rd pick, a 5th rd pick, if they want JB I’m throwing him in and maybe one of those extra 7th rounders we seem to always have. 
 

if the Raiders guy doesn’t fall to them, whoever that may be, the deal is off and we handle our draft plan B option. It’s better that they draft ahead of us because it kind of forces their hand first imho. 

I would just trade them our 1st and throw in JB if they want him.  We would need to move him anyways.  Then they would have picks 12 and 13 and they can go get the guy they want.  I would try and do the trade before FA so any targets we are thinking about would be comfortable with our QB situation.  I would be willing to sweeten the trade even more in order to get it done before FA.  Who knows maybe Cooper somehow gets free.  

[ztboiler]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you look at his numbers, Carr’s last two seasons have been excellent.   So while my asking price may be too high, I think yours is going to be much lower than will be needed.

 

Maybe there’s a midway point between the two?   Just not sure how much Ballard will be willing to pay? 

Could be a better market than Garrapolo, certainly...we’ll all find out soon enough.  

His passing efficiency numbers are the best if his career.  No surprise since playing for Gruden - same guy who turned Rich Gannon into a pro bowler. But he’s still only thrown for 21 and 19 TDs these last two years, and has failed to emerge as the guy who can carry a team yet in his 6th year.  
 

I’d be surprised if Ballard parts with more than our high 2 plus JB...and we can be pretty certain that Gruden doesn’t want JB.