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Wyldhorsefan

Could Philip Rivers be in the Colts future?

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On 12/30/2019 at 5:52 AM, CR91 said:

 

You think Jacoby would be ok playing second fiddle again? I think the colts try to move him before the draft. Maybe to the lions. There's history there and Stafford got hurt and they didn't have a better option after that.

Never going to happen. Ballard said he wants a lot for him. 

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Grunch

 

Those who are saying Rivers wouldn't be a huge upgrade over Brissett are kidding themselves.

 

Rivers threw 20 picks to Brissett's 6 - that's the ONLY area where Brissett was better.  Period.

 

Their completion percentages and sack totals were similar.

 

Rivers averaged 90 more passing yards per game, had 12 completions of 40+ yards to Brissett's 3 and had 57 completions of 20+ yards to Brissett's 32.  Rivers had 217 first downs by passing to Brissett's 143.

 

I know stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty clear Rivers is far superior.

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4 minutes ago, DalTXColtsFan said:

Grunch

 

Those who are saying Rivers wouldn't be a huge upgrade over Brissett are kidding themselves.

 

Rivers threw 20 picks to Brissett's 6 - that's the ONLY area where Brissett was better.  Period.

 

Their completion percentages and sack totals were similar.

 

Rivers averaged 90 more passing yards per game, had 12 completions of 40+ yards to Brissett's 3 and had 57 completions of 20+ yards to Brissett's 32.  Rivers had 217 first downs by passing to Brissett's 143.

 

I know stats don't tell the whole story, but it's pretty clear Rivers is far superior.

Don't forget that Rivers played behind an O-line that was the 5th worst in time to throw and Brissett played behind the 2nd best.   

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13 minutes ago, Myles said:

Don't forget that Rivers played behind an O-line that was the 5th worst in time to throw and Brissett played behind the 2nd best.   


It just doesn’t make sense with Rivers being 38 and Jacoby under contract for another season. 
 

I doubt Rivers signs to sit on the bench anywhere and Brissett probably isn’t getting released. 
 

 

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Just now, waittilnextyear said:

What a useless thread. Such a non starter idea.

I think the thought of Brissett as the starting QB for 2020 helps bring out some desperate solutions.   

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2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

This is a terrible idea. 

Worse than sticking with Brissett?

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

Worse than sticking with Brissett?

 

Brisket sucks, but at least he didn't flip off the entire Colts fanbase in the RCA Dome. 

 

#neverforget 

 

lol

 

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2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Brisket sucks, but at least he didn't flip off the entire Colts fanbase in the RCA Dome. 

 

#neverforget 

 

lol

 

I can see that.   I'm up for almost anything not to have Brissett as the starter next season.   I truly beilieve we are a 7-9 win team if that happens.  

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20 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

This is a terrible idea. 

No it's not. Rolling Brissett out there again-much closer to a "terrible idea".

 

Our guy Myles can handle the pro Rivers argument, it's got my seal of approval. The guy might be old, but he can get this roster to the playoffs and on a one or two year kind of deal, given that the QB position is hard to get square, this is the best move the Colts can make in the short term. Blow out the QB room and start over. Draft a guy, bring in Rivers. If Kelly want's to hang around, whatever, but no Hoyer and no JB. It didn't work and it won't work.

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6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I can see that.   I'm up for almost anything not to have Brissett as the starter next season.   I truly beilieve we are a 7-9 win team if that happens.  

 

I agree boss. 

 

 

I'm just saying if Philip Cry Me a Rivers was ever a Colt (which I don't believe would ever happen) I would vomit profusely and probably throw a 2 year old temper tantrum

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On 12/30/2019 at 11:10 AM, Orioles22 said:

All of you "draft a quarterback" guys seem to think whoever we get will be fine. It doesn't work that way. Burrow looks like he has a good shot at being very good, but it's probably 50-50 on any of the rest.

The best move is to get Luck back. We know that will work.

Otherwise, we need to draft a defensive tackle and receiver in the first 34 and find a veteran and-or look for a guy we can develop later in the draft. That may or may not work, but we do not want to waste our top pick on a guy with question marks.

 

If they like a guy and there is a 50% chance he is a franchise QB you jump on him.  You aren't going to get better odds than that.

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lol whoever would pull that trigger would be hilarious haha

 

I think Philip is done. He has a big family to raise anyways, and if he would rather commute two hours away everyday, instead of moving to LA with his family, he ain't coming to Indy

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2 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

lol whoever would pull that trigger would be hilarious haha

 

I think Philip is done. He has a big family to raise anyways, and if he would rather commute two hours away everyday, instead of moving to LA with his family, he ain't coming to Indy

I would, cue the laugh track! He's only said that he intends to keep playing and he gave an emotional last presser that indicated that Chargers might be moving on. He's going to have to move the family if he's going to keep playing. 

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18 minutes ago, The Fish said:

The guy might be old, but he can get this roster to the playoffs and on a one or two year kind of deal, given that the QB position is hard to get square, this is the best move the Colts can make in the short term. 

 

And what really could Rivers give us?  Get us to the playoffs?  Big deal.  So we can get bounced in the first game or two?  I would rather use the money for a real solution.

 

24 minutes ago, Myles said:

I can see that.   I'm up for almost anything not to have Brissett as the starter next season.   I truly beilieve we are a 7-9 win team if that happens.  

 

And with an aging Rivers what are we?  He will probably be a little less mobile and have worse arm strength next year (which is one of the concerns about him now).  And who is he throwing to?

 

So maybe we are 9-7 with him?  

 

This entire idea seems contrary to Ballard's method.  I just don't see him being interested in throwing money at someone who really isn't the solution.  And I would agree.

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10 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

And what really could Rivers give us?  Get us to the playoffs?  Big deal.  So we can get bounced in the first game or two?  I would rather use the money for a real solution.

 

 

And with an aging Rivers what are we?  He will probably be a little less mobile and have worse arm strength next year (which is one of the concerns about him now).  And who is he throwing to?

 

So maybe we are 9-7 with him?  

 

This entire idea seems contrary to Ballard's method.  I just don't see him being interested in throwing money at someone who really isn't the solution.  And I would agree.

 

 

This read like "why don't we just go draft another Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning". Obviously it's not that easy to find a guy who can actually play the position effectively, especially without the pick of the litter. After a half a decade of one playoff win, turning your nose up at a playoff trip or two.. I don't share the sentiment and secondly I want to draft a guy too, because  Rivers isn't going to have a half a decade left, but he's a monumental, unquestionable, obvious, plain as day upgrade, and it's needed, badly.

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43 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think the thought of Brissett as the starting QB for 2020 helps bring out some desperate solutions.   

 

  No doubt. I would prefer never having to watch him take another Colts snap.
  If you can't pass well under todays rules you need another career.
     Maybe we dump Hoyer at some point and sign another vet as a backup. 
 And perhaps through injury or poor play they get to start. But it would shock me if that guy was Rivers. Just not going to happen.

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7 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

And what really could Rivers give us?  Get us to the playoffs?  Big deal.  So we can get bounced in the first game or two?  I would rather use the money for a real solution.

 

 

And with an aging Rivers what are we?  He will probably be a little less mobile and have worse arm strength next year (which is one of the concerns about him now).  And who is he throwing to?

 

So maybe we are 9-7 with him?  

 

This entire idea seems contrary to Ballard's method.  I just don't see him being interested in throwing money at someone who really isn't the solution.  And I would agree.

I don't disagree.   I'm only an advocate for Rivers if the alternative is Brissett.  An aging Rivers is still an improvement over Brissett.   I think giving him a top O-line protecting him and a Reich offense could really open things up.   I'm not sold on Rivers for this team except for the fact that it would stop Brissett from starting.  

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JB has broken you all.

 

Rivers was a disaster this year. He was productive, and he's a better QB than JB, but he's not the kind of guy you bring in to help your team contend in the AFC. The Chargers have a better roster than the Colts, on both sides of the ball, and they won five games this year. They couldn't finish a close game all season (besides beating us in the opener), and many of those losses came as a result of a big turnover by Rivers. 

 

In the first Raiders game, the Chargers got the ball with 1:02 left, with three timeouts, down by two points. Need about 40 yards for a FG try. Rivers went 0/7 on that drive. He was 0/3, then on the first fourth down the Raiders got called for defensive holding on another incomplete pass. Then Rivers threw four more incompletions. 

 

There was another game against the Chiefs, Rivers threw four picks. They lost by a TD. 

 

He might have been the Chargers biggest issue this season. Honorable mention to a tough kicking situation, but that got settled by midseason. 

 

I don't see Rivers as a solution to any of our problems. 

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8 hours ago, Narcosys said:

Never going to happen. Ballard said he wants a lot for him. 

 

That was before the season. His value is not the same

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6 minutes ago, Superman said:

JB has broken you all.

 

He might have been the Chargers biggest issue this season. Honorable mention to a tough kicking situation, but that got settled by midseason. 

 

I don't see Rivers as a solution to any of our problems. 

Totally agree. 

 

Not that nay of this would happen, but I'd prefer Carr, Stafford, and even....cough....Case Keenum over Rivers.

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15 minutes ago, Superman said:

JB has broken you all.

 

Rivers was a disaster this year. He was productive, and he's a better QB than JB, but he's not the kind of guy you bring in to help your team contend in the AFC. The Chargers have a better roster than the Colts, on both sides of the ball, and they won five games this year. They couldn't finish a close game all season (besides beating us in the opener), and many of those losses came as a result of a big turnover by Rivers. 

 

In the first Raiders game, the Chargers got the ball with 1:02 left, with three timeouts, down by two points. Need about 40 yards for a FG try. Rivers went 0/7 on that drive. He was 0/3, then on the first fourth down the Raiders got called for defensive holding on another incomplete pass. Then Rivers threw four more incompletions. 

 

There was another game against the Chiefs, Rivers threw four picks. They lost by a TD. 

 

He might have been the Chargers biggest issue this season. Honorable mention to a tough kicking situation, but that got settled by midseason. 

 

I don't see Rivers as a solution to any of our problems. 

I agree with most of what you wrote.   Mostly the bolded part.   That is the only reason why I'd be in favor of it.   I think this Colts team is a pretty good team.   The great O-line gives us great opportunity.   Just not under Brissett.   I think we all agree that a QB will be drafted.   So we need another QB for 1-2 years.   I'd rather it be Rivers than Brissett.  

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If we have no receivers to get open and catch the ball, then it doesn't matter who the QB is next year.

 

We need weapons for the QB to use.  I gotta believe that a healthy JB with offensive weapons would look a lot different than what we saw the second half of the season.

 

We can draft a QB to groom for 2021, or maybe that guy is Kelly.  We're not going to be in a position to draft a top QB, and there's no FA quarterbacks that will be a huge upgrade...most are on the downside of their careers.

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3 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with most of what you wrote.   Mostly the bolded part.   That is the only reason why I'd be in favor of it.   I think this Colts team is a pretty good team.   The great O-line gives us great opportunity.   Just not under Brissett.   I think we all agree that a QB will be drafted.   So we need another QB for 1-2 years.   I'd rather it be Rivers than Brissett.  

 

I don't think Rivers makes the team better. Statistically, yeah some of the offensive production would be better. Some of it would be worse (turnovers, especially). I don't see him helping the team win more games, though.

 

This would be the ultimate "change for the sake of change" move. 

 

I think any change at QB should either make the team significantly better, or be specifically with an eye toward the future. Not just shuffling pieces because we're fed up with JB. 

 

3 minutes ago, Barry Sears said:

If we have no receivers to get open and catch the ball, then it doesn't matter who the QB is next year.

 

 

The receiver position needs to be better, but there were open receivers all season long. JB just isn't good at throwing to them.

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1 hour ago, The Fish said:

Rivers isn't going to have a half a decade left, but he's a monumental, unquestionable, obvious, plain as day upgrade, and it's needed, badly.

 

We all have our opinions, but I just don't think this is true. But I could be wrong, since it is just my opinion.  I haven't actually evaluated his current ability like would need to be done to determine his value.  

 

I just feel that a few years ago it was true, but his performance was not great this year and we don't know how fast he will diminish.

 

Old guys fail fast!

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9 minutes ago, Myles said:

I agree with most of what you wrote.   Mostly the bolded part.   That is the only reason why I'd be in favor of it.   I think this Colts team is a pretty good team.   The great O-line gives us great opportunity.   Just not under Brissett.   I think we all agree that a QB will be drafted.   So we need another QB for 1-2 years.   I'd rather it be Rivers than Brissett.  

Yeah, I'm going to say it's not so obvious that A. Rivers a year removed from taking a team to the AFCCG  is a lateral move compared to JB or B. that the Chargers roster is wildly better than the Colts, it's largely a wash with the Colts offensive line being much better than the Chargers- who I think had big injuries everywhere this year. Can't understate that part of this.

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8 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

We all have our opinions, but I just don't think this is true. But I could be wrong, since it is just my opinion.  I haven't actually evaluated his current ability like would need to be done to determine his value.  

 

I just feel that a few years ago it was true, but his performance was not great this year and we don't know how fast he will diminish.

 

Old guys fail fast!

 

Old guys do break down, I don't see that in Rivers yet though. And I'm not saying don't draft a guy, if it's a move Ballard and Co. are cool with. 

JB will not do anything we haven't seen before, because he's not efficient with the ball or accurate when throwing it. Move on. Don't be afraid to do so.

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Rivers throws picks.  

 

Our defense can not currently handle a QB that throws picks, especially if it would create a short field.

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2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Yeah, I'm going to say it's not so obvious that A. Rivers a year removed from taking a team to the AFCCG  is a lateral move compared to JB or B. that the Chargers roster is wildly better than the Colts, it's largely a wash with the Colts offensive line being much better than the Chargers- who I think had big injuries everywhere this year. Can't understate that part of this.

 

What's more likely with a 39 year old QB? That he goes back to his good play from two years ago and throws fewer interceptions while maintaining efficiency, or that he continues to struggle? Especially with a new team.

 

You're right the Colts OL is better. The Chargers have a better receiving corps, the RB room is close to a wash, they have better TEs. They had a lot of injuries on defense, so maybe that side of the ball wasn't dramatically better this year, but still better IMO. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

What's more likely with a 39 year old QB? That he goes back to his good play from two years ago and throws fewer interceptions while maintaining efficiency, or that he continues to struggle? Especially with a new team.

 

You're right the Colts OL is better. The Chargers have a better receiving corps, the RB room is close to a wash, they have better TEs. They had a lot of injuries on defense, so maybe that side of the ball wasn't dramatically better this year, but still better IMO. 

The O line giving him time to throw was what I ascribed his struggles to this year- as did my Charger fan buddy. I don't think he'd struggle here, which is why this doesn't scare me off. It might not work as well as I think, but barring injury, the floor for him looks a lot like JB's ceiling. 8 ish wins and we bridge to the future with a guy who might inspire some belief as opposed to guys quitting on the team (Ebron) and sniping about general productivity (TY- wasn't out of line, but he was talking about this in a way that wasn't glowing) and give a rook some time to sit. The ceiling with Rivers might, might be a deep run.

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5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

The O line giving him time to throw was what I ascribed his struggles to this year- as did my Charger fan buddy. I don't think he'd struggle here, which is why this doesn't scare me off. It might not work as well as I think, but barring injury, the floor for him looks a lot like JB's ceiling. 8 ish wins and we bridge to the future with a guy who might inspire some belief as opposed to guys quitting on the team (Ebron) and sniping about general productivity (TY- wasn't out of line, but he was talking about this in a way that wasn't glowing) and give a rook some time to sit. The ceiling with Rivers might, might be a deep run.

 

I personally don't share that optimism about his floor or ceiling. I think his floor was represented well this year on a five win Chargers team. His ceiling is ultimately dependent on the quality of the roster around him, just like any other QB. While he's a better passer than JB, my question is whether he represents a significant upgrade, and I don't think he does. That's mostly because I'm thinking he's a shot fighter and will never be good again.

 

You painted a picture of him inspiring some confidence, opposed to how things went as the year progressed in 2019. An alternate view might be Rivers throwing a handful of game-ending picks, or having a few three pick games that cost the team a chance to win, and the impact that would have on the team's morale. 

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I personally don't share that optimism about his floor or ceiling. I think his floor was represented well this year on a five win Chargers team. His ceiling is ultimately dependent on the quality of the roster around him, just like any other QB. While he's a better passer than JB, my question is whether he represents a significant upgrade, and I don't think he does. That's mostly because I'm thinking he's a shot fighter and will never be good again.

 

You painted a picture of him inspiring some confidence, opposed to how things went as the year progressed in 2019. An alternate view might be Rivers throwing a handful of game-ending picks, or having a few three pick games that cost the team a chance to win, and the impact that would have on the team's morale. 

I'll stick with what you said earlier.  You said Rivers would be an improvement over Brissett.   That's what I want.   I also think that going from a bad pass protection line to a great one would push that improvement up a bit.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

While he's a better passer than JB, my question is whether he represents a significant upgrade, and I don't think he does. That's mostly because I'm thinking he's a shot fighter and will never be good again.

 

You painted a picture of him inspiring some confidence, opposed to how things went as the year progressed in 2019. An alternate view might be Rivers throwing a handful of game-ending picks, or having a few three pick games that cost the team a chance to win, and the impact that would have on the team's morale. 

 

They let Adam shank how many critical kicks again? I suppose it's worth avoiding the shot fighter thing after all of that, but it's going to be up to Ballard and the front office to make an accurate assessment of the FA's in the QB market.

I don't think Rivers forgot how to play or is even losing much on his ball. To be real honest here, I don't think he's *as good* as people say generally- but he's better than most and in the NFL, better than most is hard to turn your nose up at when even you, as not into this idea as you are can at least see that Rivers is a better passer than JB. Finding a better passer is how you improve from JB in my opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but to me, that's huge in this debate and I'd quantify it as a "significant upgrade". Maybe that speaks to how uninspired I was by JB. Could be.

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6 minutes ago, Myles said:

I'll stick with what you said earlier.  You said Rivers would be an improvement over Brissett.   That's what I want.   I also think that going from a bad pass protection line to a great one would push that improvement up a bit.

 

3 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

They let Adam shank how many critical kicks again? I suppose it's worth avoiding the shot fighter thing after all of that, but it's going to be up to Ballard and the front office to make an accurate assessment of the FA's in the QB market.

I don't think Rivers forgot how to play or is even losing much on his ball. To be real honest here, I don't think he's *as good* as people say generally- but he's better than most and in the NFL, better than most is hard to turn your nose up at when even you, as not into this idea as you are can at least see that Rivers is a better passer than JB. Finding a better passer is how you improve from JB in my opinion. Maybe I'm oversimplifying this, but to me, that's huge in this debate and I'd quantify it as a "significant upgrade". Maybe that speaks to how uninspired I was by JB. Could be.

 

Yeah, to me this argument is about "anyone but JB in 2020," which is understandable, but I think an overreaction. I don't think it's the right way to proceed. And you both know that I'm not high on JB.

 

There are other veteran QBs I would consider this offseason. Not interested in Rivers, though (or Dalton, Mariota, Keenum, Eli, etc.) Carr would cost too much to trade for. 

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On 12/30/2019 at 12:19 AM, Wyldhorsefan said:

 I know I know Philip is 38 year old So it would only be for a year or two but Frank Reich was the Chargers quarterbacks coach in 2013 and offensive coordinator from 2014-2015. Colts OC Nick Sirianni was on the Chargers coaching staff for five seasons as the team’s offensive quality control coach (2013), quarterbacks coach (2014-2015) and wide receivers coach (2016-2017).  there would be a lot of familiarity there. Just a thought.

 

I would rather have Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's cheaper and better. What has Rivers ever done in LA? He's had great HOF RBs, TE, and a solid Defense. I don't understand why some fans believe that every other team's trash is the Colts best option.

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7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

Yeah, to me this argument is about "anyone but JB in 2020," which is understandable, but I think an overreaction. I don't think it's the right way to proceed. And you both know that I'm not high on JB.

 

There are other veteran QBs I would consider this offseason. Not interested in Rivers, though (or Dalton, Mariota, Keenum, Eli, etc.) Carr would cost too much to trade for. 

Same here.   I don't necessarily prefer Rivers to any of those you listed.  But if the option were Brissett or Rivers to bridge the gap for the Colts, I'd choose Rivers.  

 

8 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

I would rather have Ryan Fitzpatrick. He's cheaper and better. What has Rivers ever done in LA? He's had great HOF RBs, TE, and a solid Defense. I don't understand why some fans believe that every other team's trash is the Colts best option.

Only the "best option" if the only other option is Brissett.   I've never been much of a fan of Rivers.  In fact I argue that he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame as most people think he should.   Just an improvement.   I think this team is good enough to win 8 games with a below average QB (Brissett), so maybe 10 wins with Rivers.   

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

 

Yeah, to me this argument is about "anyone but JB in 2020," which is understandable, but I think an overreaction. I don't think it's the right way to proceed. And you both know that I'm not high on JB.

 

There are other veteran QBs I would consider this offseason. Not interested in Rivers, though (or Dalton, Mariota, Keenum, Eli, etc.) Carr would cost too much to trade for. 

Well, what would you like to see happen? If not Rivers- and the other guys, I'm largely not bullish on either, but there's the possibility that a guy like Dalton could be okay too.. I saw you say that the QB room shouldn't be undone, but it's only a few guys. Hoyer's out I'm assuming. Kelly is whatever. So it's JB and high end rookie and Kelly? JB, lower range rookie and another vet? Something else? Wait and see? JB for POTUS in 2020?

 

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