Where Is the Hate Coming From??

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

He sucked in limited time, kinda like Campbell. They are on the same level to me at this point right now.

 

Neither of them sucked. We gotta stop claiming rookies who don't light the world on fire "sucked." It's stupid.

 

2 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

Passing up AJ Brown is starting to feel like 

 

The more I watched him, the more I liked him. I would have loved to have him.

[WarGhost21]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Yeah, he's incomplete right now due to a number of reasons. We'll just have to hope he makes that jump year 2. If there's a positive, this draft is full of tall, physical receivers while Campbell is that speedy, slot guy. So we can focus on the strength of this WR class.

Definitely!! My favorite part about this class is that almost every notable receiver is exactly what I’ve been wanting for this team: either a big-bodied guy or a crisp route-runner, or both. The team has 2 guys already that are slot burners (TY and Campbell), and most others are also smaller recievers with wheels. Funchess really is the only possession/Redzone reciever we have, so this class will help to fill us out outside!

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Neither of them sucked. We gotta stop claiming rookies who don't light the world on fire "sucked." It's stupid.

 

 

It has become a crutch for some

[Yoshinator]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Neither of them sucked. We gotta stop claiming rookies who don't light the world on fire "sucked." It's stupid.

That's why I said "limited time". I obviously don't expect 1,000 yard seasons from injured rookies. During the time they played though, they were completely ineffective. They were bad as rookies, doesn't mean they can't get better.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, WarGhost21 said:

Definitely!! My favorite part about this class is that almost every notable receiver is exactly what I’ve been wanting for this team: either a big-bodied guy or a crisp route-runner, or both. The team has 2 guys already that are slot burners (TY and Campbell), and most others are also smaller recievers with wheels. Funchess really is the only possession/Redzone reciever we have, so this class will help to fill us out outside!

Agreed. I'll be doing plenty of research in the upcoming months on this receiver class. The combine will have me salivating lol! 

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

That's why I said "limited time". I obviously don't expect 1,000 yard seasons from injured rookies. During the time they played though, they were completely ineffective. They were bad as rookies, doesn't mean they can't get better.

 

I disagree. They both made plays for their teams, just not enough of them. Harry had a couple good plays to help the Pats win the division. It will be interesting seeing him and Brown in the same game Saturday.

 

Campbell was in a rough situation, between the injury and just not being a fit for the offense with JB at QB. 

[Yoshinator]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I disagree. They both made plays for their teams, just not enough of them. Harry had a couple good plays to help the Pats win the division. It will be interesting seeing him and Brown in the same game Saturday.

 

Campbell was in a rough situation, between the injury and just not being a fit for the offense with JB at QB. 

Harry had nothing to do with the Pats winning the division. He could of been out for the year and they would of won it. Campbell was hurt, but his speciality is his YAC and breakaway speed. Even with Brissett throwing to him, he should of been able to break a few passes (or even runs) for TD's and he didn't.

 

No excuses there for either in limited time. I don't expect a season full of great plays because of injury, but neither had an effect on the team in year 1 as rookies.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Harry had nothing to do with the Pats winning the division. He could of been out for the year and they would of won it. Campbell was hurt, but his speciality is his YAC and breakaway speed. Even with Brissett throwing to him, he should of been able to break a few passes (or even runs) for TD's and he didn't.

 

No excuses there for either in limited time. I don't expect a season full of great plays because of injury, but neither had an effect on the team in year 1 as rookies.

 

Harry literally made plays in the Pats literal division-winning game last weekend.

[Yoshinator]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Harry literally made plays in the Pats literal division-winning game last weekend.

He may of made a couple plays, but they win without him. He really made no difference during the season.

[deedub75]

6 hours ago, SOMDColtsfan said:

Hind sight is 20/20 but sometimes it seems GM's will pass up on players we fans think they should have drafted. The Xavier Rhodes, Landon Collins types. The Colts traded that #26 pick to Washington who then took Montez Sweat, 7 sacks - 2 forced fumbles in 2019, and came on strong to end the year. The Colts got Rock Ya Sin and a high 2nd round pick. Sweat had a great rookie combine running the 40 yd in 4.41. Still too early to see who won that deal, Ya Sin showed flashes and the 2nd rd pick isnt on the team yet. 

Ballard doesn’t seem to like to take chances. Sweat was either a top 5 or top 10 talent but he had that heart issue which made him drop to 26 even though doctors cleared him. I wish he would have taken a chance and used a 2nd round pick on Metcalf but there were questions with his durability and route running. 

[Blueblood23]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

In March?

I guess it depended on when they found out that Luck was considering retirement. I have no idea when that original conversation took place.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I guess it depended on when they found out that Luck was considering retirement. I have no idea when that original conversation took place.

 

There's no indication it happened in March. 

[Fisticuffs111]

3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Passing up AJ Brown is starting to feel like 

 

Yeah, AJ Brown was my favorite WR in last year’s draft. And my least favorite pick at the time was Banogu, who we took two picks earlier. Not that Banogu’s book has been written quite yet.

 

Hopefully Campbell can come back and stay healthy. 

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Neither of them sucked. We gotta stop claiming rookies who don't light the world on fire "sucked." It's stupid.

 

 

The more I watched him, the more I liked him. I would have loved to have him.

yeah brown was one of my favorite receivers leading up to the draft,  he was also a draft pick of mine in my fantasy league

 

DK Metcalf is another (although he wasn't a favorite, actually I thought he was overhyped because of his combine numbers), he has had an excellent rookie season.

[Four2itus]

1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

yeah brown was one of my favorite receivers leading up to the draft,  he was also a draft pick of mine in my fantasy league

 

DK Metcalf is another (although he wasn't a favorite, actually I thought he was overhyped because of his combine numbers), he has had an excellent rookie season.

He has exceeded what I thought he would be his rookie year. 

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

yeah brown was one of my favorite receivers leading up to the draft,  he was also a draft pick of mine in my fantasy league

 

DK Metcalf is another (although he wasn't a favorite, actually I thought he was overhyped because of his combine numbers), he has had an excellent rookie season.

 

The Seahawks did a great job deploying Metcalf. I was not a fan, and I still don't think he's a very skilled player, but his physical ability speaks for itself.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Nah, this argument is hogwash. 

 

If the defensive roster was any good, even a wholesale scheme change would not have resulted in replacing 25 players in two years. And none of those 25 players are contributing on other teams around the league. They were bad. Grigson built a bad roster.

 

Even if Ballard hadn't pushed forward with a scheme change, we still would have needed a completely new defense.

 

It's also downright crazy to suggest that Marlon Mack is not better than Frank Gore. Just stop.

 

And what Grigson tried and failed to do for five years, Ballard did in Year 2. He spent two top 40 picks on OL to fix a sore spot on this roster. That's two top 40 picks that didn't go toward defensive playmakers, or a #2 receiver.

 

Ballard inherited a trash roster, because Grigson built a trash roster. And then the best and most important player on the roster retired before the start of Year 3.

 

Edit: Henry Anderson is contributing for the Jets. So one of Grigson's defensive holdovers is contributing around the league.

Again.  I did not say the inherited roster was good.  I did not discuss what Grigson did or did not do. 

 

What I said was, what Ballard did or did not inherit (on the defensive side) is moot, because it was his choice to change over defensive schemes.  Doing that takes different players.  Doing that takes time.  And no matter how healthy or not Vontae was when Ballard inherited him, the change in schemes made him a less effective corner.

 

Ballard even set himself back in the pass rush department by waiving a guy he signed previously, Simon, who was an effective rotational pass rusher in the 34.

 

Ballard actually inherited a pretty good offensive roster for a new GM who replaced a GM that just got fired, considering it only took adding two offensive linemen in three years to fix it.  (unless you really want to give him a lot of credit for Glow over Haeg).  He didn't even need to spend his high first round pick on a LT.  Instead, he CHOSE to spend that capital on a G. He let a non pass catching RB in Gore go to BUFF to replace him with a 4th round non pass catching RB in Mack.  Whoopie.

 

What else has he added on offense in three years.

 

BTW: If we say he signed Funchess and fixed the #2 WR spot unless for injury in the first game with the Colts, then we should say that Grigson fixed the RG spot by signing Donald Thomas, who was also injured in his first game with the Colts.  

 

After three years, what Ballard inherited or didn't is not relevant any more.

[WarGhost21]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

.After three years, what Ballard inherited or didn't is not relevant any more.

Except for the fact that this team was set for a deep playoff run up until our QB retired and we had to remake our offense around a QB that has very few similarities to the QB we had, then I would agree. However, Luck retiring has effectively reset Ballard back to year 1 of an offensive rebuild. In looking at it that way, you have to somewhat ignore the offensive end and look at the defense, which has gone from worst in the league under Grigson to top 10 under Ballard. I’d say he’s done pretty well, all things considered

[DougDew]

38 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Except for the fact that this team was set for a deep playoff run up until our QB retired and we had to remake our offense around a QB that has very few similarities to the QB we had, then I would agree. However, Luck retiring has effectively reset Ballard back to year 1 of an offensive rebuild. In looking at it that way, you have to somewhat ignore the offensive end and look at the defense, which has gone from worst in the league under Grigson to top 10 under Ballard. I’d say he’s done pretty well, all things considered

That isn't a fact.  Might be a reasonable opinion, but its not a fact.

 

This GM talk seems to often veer into some sort of comparison, for whatever reason.

 

My opinion is this:

 

It was hogwash if there was ever a serious thought to there being a 3 year plan.  Or even a 5 year plan.  Even with Luck.  A 3 year plan requires signing useful vets.  A 5 year plan requires 3rd through 7th rounders growing as players to be more than just role players that get churned every few years.

 

Building through the draft takes a lot time. 

 

Our most recent SB contending roster and where they were drafted:

 

Manning #1 pick, Freeney #11.  Booger #12 (by TB whom we gave a 2nd for when he was old), Glenn 1st, Harrison 1st, Wayne 1st, Clark 1st, Marlin Jackson 1st,  Bob Sanders 2nd, Kelvin Hayden 2nd.  Finding an all-pro Mathis in the 5th.  An all pro C Saturday at a grocery store. 

 

How many years does it take to accumulate that many first and second round players?  Were the unmentioned players really pillars of the team or merely role players that churned every few years?

 

And Ballard is such a genius that he can do it in three?   Right.  And since we're not there, it must be Eberflus' fault.  Its Reich's fault.

 

It's all JBs fault. 

 

Huge LOL.

[WarGhost21]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

That isn't a fact.  Might be a reasonable opinion, but its not a fact.

 

This GM talk seems to often veer into some sort of comparison, for whatever reason.

 

My opinion is this:

 

It was hogwash if there was ever a serious thought to there being a 3 year plan.  Or even a 5 year plan.  Even with Luck.  A 3 year plan requires signing useful vets.  A 5 year plan requires 3rd through 7th rounders growing as players to be more than just role players that get churned every few years.

 

Building through the draft takes a lot time. 

 

Our most recent SB contending roster and where they were drafted:

 

Manning #1 pick, Freeney #11.  Booger #12 (by TB whom we gave a 2nd for when he was old), Glenn 1st, Harrison 1st, Wayne 1st, Clark 1st, Marlin Jackson 1st,  Bob Sanders 2nd, Kelvin Hayden 2nd.  Finding an all-pro Mathis in the 5th.  An all pro C Saturday at a grocery store. 

 

How many years does it take to accumulate that many first and second round players?  Were the unmentioned players really pillars of the team or merely role players that churned every few years?

 

And Ballard is such a genius that he can do it in three?   Right.  And since we're not there, it must be Eberflus' fault.  Its Reich's fault.

 

It's all JBs fault. 

 

Huge LOL.

I totally agree with you though lol. This team wasn’t set to be fully ready for a Super Bowl in 3. It was only on the back of our superstar QB that we had a fighting chance. What he has done, however, is turn the defense around overall and fix our issues in the trenches. I’m happy with what Ballard has done, and just want the fans to realize that it isn’t something that is going to be fixed as quickly as they might hope. Grigson left our team barren of youthful talent, and Ballard has really gone above and beyond to fix that. We just need to give those young guys time to meet their potential

[Superman]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

What I said was, what Ballard did or did not inherit (on the defensive side) is moot, because it was his choice to change over defensive schemes.  Doing that takes different players.  Doing that takes time.  And no matter how healthy or not Vontae was when Ballard inherited him, the change in schemes made him a less effective corner.

 

 

That's absolutely wrong. If there were any actual good defensive players, they would have been retained. And Vontae never played in the "new" defense, he left during the 2017 season.

 

Quote

Ballard even set himself back in the pass rush department by waiving a guy he signed previously, Simon, who was an effective rotational pass rusher in the 34.

 

He's a 3 sack/year guy. And he has nothing to do with the roster inherited in 2017.

 

Quote

Ballard actually inherited a pretty good offensive roster for a new GM who replaced a GM that just got fired, considering it only took adding two offensive linemen in three years to fix it.  (unless you really want to give him a lot of credit for Glow over Haeg).  He didn't even need to spend his high first round pick on a LT.  Instead, he CHOSE to spend that capital on a G. He let a non pass catching RB in Gore go to BUFF to replace him with a 4th round non pass catching RB in Mack.  Whoopie.

 

Goodness. Five players.

 

Your take on Gore vs Mack basically nullifies your opinion. 

[boo2202]

18 hours ago, deedub75 said:

Ballard doesn’t seem to like to take chances. Sweat was either a top 5 or top 10 talent but he had that heart issue which made him drop to 26 even though doctors cleared him. I wish he would have taken a chance and used a 2nd round pick on Metcalf but there were questions with his durability and route running. 

Oh Ballard takes chances. Just in less talented players like bangou, Lewis, ya sin, etc. Brown or Metcalf should be a colt.

[deedub75]

8 hours ago, boo2202 said:

Oh Ballard takes chances. Just in less talented players like bangou, Lewis, ya sin, etc. Brown or Metcalf should be a colt.

 

Jeudy from Bama would look good in Colts blue.  I doubt he'd be there at 13 and Ballard's not gonna trade up for him.  

[GoColts8818]

9 hours ago, boo2202 said:

Oh Ballard takes chances. Just in less talented players like bangou, Lewis, ya sin, etc. Brown or Metcalf should be a colt.

How about Leonard, Mack, Smith, Willis, Walker, or Turey?  Funny how left them out...

[Pacergeek]

35 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

How about Leonard, Mack, Smith, Willis, Walker, or Turey?  Funny how left them out...

Turey cannot stay healthy. I like him as a prospect, but if he continues to miss games, he will be another busted Ballard draft pick. 

[Pacergeek]

On 12/31/2019 at 12:47 PM, Superman said:

 

Neither of them sucked. We gotta stop claiming rookies who don't light the world on fire "sucked." It's stupid.

 

 

The more I watched him, the more I liked him. I would have loved to have him.

For the season, Campbell caught 18 passes for 127 yards. I hope he turns it around, but Campbell absolutely sucked as a Rookie.

[Myles]

12 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

For the season, Campbell caught 18 passes for 127 yards. I hope he turns it around, but Campbell absolutely sucked as a Rookie.

Too many other factors to say "he absolutely sucked".

His injuries.

Brissett.

Reich not using him enough.

Brissett.

[Dingus McGirt]

20 minutes ago, Myles said:

Too many other factors to say "he absolutely sucked".

His injuries.

Brissett.

Reich not using him enough.

Brissett.

Don't forget - "Brissett."   :^)