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So, anyone NOT think the Brisset experiment is over?

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is thing I do not understand, why does 90% of the forum believe Chad Kelly would be a better option over JB? That is like they are saying they know more than Reich and Ballard. Believe me, if Reich and Ballard thought Kelly was far better he wouldve been playing by week 8 after JB's injury. That is common sense. 

im not sure hes better i would have liked to see what he can do in a real game though. i do think he looked better than JB in pre season, thats what we have to go off of

 

what i think would happen is he would turn it over more but also produce more, no way to know if that would be worth it.

 

we ran a pretty simple offense this year too i think kelly would be caught up on that by now

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12 hours ago, James said:

Aaaaaaand Frank thinks Brissett gets unfair criticism.

 

He's gonna be the Colts starting QB next year, isn't he?

Brissett DOES get unfair criticism.  That doesn't mean he's suddenly a world beating talent, but people are comparing Brissett to what we're used to, and what we're used to is Manning and Luck.  2 incredibly tough acts to follow.

 

And they're frequently not remembering that Brissett was thrust into the starting job because our starter quit in the middle of training camp.  

 

Personally I'm interested to see if there's some possible improvement that could be achieved with a roster built around what Brissett can do, rather than built around Luck and hastily adjusted for a guy who definitely is not Luck

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I’m sorry but JB regressed heavily this season. He showed good moments but he can’t stop staring down receivers, can’t go through his progressions, and panics. By no means am I saying he’s terrible but I think his early success has stained some perspectives here.

 

Him being thrown in at the last minute would explain his early issues, but not his later in the season issues.

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46 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

im not sure hes better i would have liked to see what he can do in a real game though. i do think he looked better than JB in pre season, thats what we have to go off of

 

what i think would happen is he would turn it over more but also produce more, no way to know if that would be worth it.

 

we ran a pretty simple offense this year too i think kelly would be caught up on that by now

Aaron, I think that the Colts want to give Kelly some time to see if he is straighten out his personal life. Would be devastating if he started to perform well and then had one of his relapses. Could you imagine the fire storm and the picks and axes coming out and going after Ballard if that happened? Can see it now from 25 posters "I told you so".

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12 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

It could be worse.  We could be in the Bears' position.  With a QB that has regressed to the point of playing not much differently than JB, but they traded up to get Trubisky at the #2 overall pick.  They have to play him.  The draft choice demands that they play him.

 

This is one of many situation where people overpaid (in future draft picks) to rush up and grab a potential star......

 

This is a total crap shoot. 

 

 A third of the QBs taken in the first round actually work out to lead their team to playoffs

 

We have some very nice draft capitol that we could potentially trade

 

Its tempting, but what a risk!

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8 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is one of many situation where people overpaid (in future draft picks) to rush up and grab a potential star......

 

This is a total crap shoot. 

 

 A third of the QBs taken in the first round actually work out to lead their team to playoffs

 

We have some very nice draft capitol that we could potentially trade

 

Its tempting, but what a risk!

Yep, huge risk as the Bears have shown us.  

The other options are to sign an older vet to bridge the gap (Rivers, Dalton, Newton).  Or to find a young QB who we feel still has potential.  Kind of like Ten did with Tanehill.  He's been great in the 10 games he started for the Titans this season.   I wonder what Ballard thinks of Rosen?

 

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15 hours ago, ColtsSouljah said:

I do think it's not over - if for no other reason than who are we going to replace him with? I don't think Ballard and Reich would take any QB we would be in a position to draft over Jacoby, and the same is likely true of any free agents.

I will be shocked if Jacoby isn't the starter week 1 of the 2020 season.

I think this is really interesting.  I am a JB supporter and he has made that very hard over the last month and a half.  He has not looked good.  But the you raise a huge question.  Is there anyone in the draft that Ballard and Reich like enough to take at 13.  We know that Ballard sticks to his board, so if who he likes is gone or he has someone like Love or Eason rated as a 2nd round QB, then he will take the Best player available and see if they drop, that has been proven over the last 2 drafts. 

 

It comes down to how Ballard has the QBs rated on his board.  If he has a first round grade on any of the QBs, we also know he isn't afraid to stick to his board and make a pick that looks like a reach (Darius Leonard).

 

I trust him and Reich, If they draft a QB early (Jordan Love, Jacob Eason), Mid round (Anthony Gordon, Jalen Hurts) or super late (?) and roll with JB, I will support it.  They are in the building and know what to do.

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What's worse, drafting Tim Tebow in the 1st round or Andy Dalton in the 2nd? I say Andy. Why? Because it was OBVIOUS that Tebow couldn't play so they bit the bullet quickly on him and moved on. Andy is good enough to play in this league but not good enough to win. So with him you hang onto him for 10 years bleeding a slow death. JB is like that, a real nice guy with some ability to play in this league. But he's not going to win us what we want, I think it cut bait and move on from him quickly.

How about the Redskins Alex Smith? He's back throwing and thinks he'll be 100% next year. He's not a game changer, but with what we already have he can get up back into the 10-6/  or11/5 area..

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3 straight games with under 200 passing yards and zero passing TDs. At this point I’m not even sure you can start him next season. He was outplayed by a rookie 6th round pick. That’s inexcusable when A.J. Bouye was out and they don’t have Ramsey anymore. Hilton and Doyle were healthy too.

 

Also let’s stop sugar coating it with Jacoby. He is awful. Calling his average is an insult to average. Right now the only QB I might like him better than is Trubisky and even that’s debatable. He may not turn the ball over like crazy but he just cannot get anything done offensively. There’s no way any competent GM or coach sees that season finally and thinks he’s the future.

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18 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

3 straight games with under 200 passing yards and zero passing TDs. At this point I’m not even sure you can start him next season. He was outplayed by a rookie 6th round pick. That’s inexcusable when A.J. Bouye was out and they don’t have Ramsey anymore. Hilton and Doyle were healthy too.

 

Also let’s stop sugar coating it with Jacoby. He is awful. Calling his average is an insult to average. Right now the only QB I might like him better than is Trubisky and even that’s debatable. He may not turn the ball over like crazy but he just cannot get anything done offensively. There’s no way any competent GM or coach sees that season finally and thinks he’s the future.


Yep...I think the best move might be to entirely change up the QB room and start fresh next year. 

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I fear it wont be over. I think the excuse of him getting injured and not having all of his skill guys will be thrown out heavily. Offensive coordinator has already said he thinks the injury has played a part in his play. Problem is though that not seeing guys running wide open...inaccurate throws to wide open receivers..holding the ball too long and just generally being too slow in everything he does is not a result of skill guys being injured. Its just a QB who isnt that good and whose ceiling is a high end backup. Judging by how long the colts stuck with a washed up kicker costing them game after game this year i fear they will give JB at least another year. 

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1 hour ago, shastamasta said:


Yep...I think the best move might be to entirely change up the QB room and start fresh next year. 

 

It's not. JMO.

 

I'm not making excuses for JB's play, and you know I think we need to improve. But it is still a fact, based in our present reality, that the WR room got decimated by injury, then JB got hurt (which probably directly cost us two games), then he played his way back to reasonable health but wasn't as effective anymore, and TY was out, and the staff had built a roster around Luck and not JB, and they were shellshocked by the retirement as well. Oh, and AV did cost us games. Also, Reich went through a weird stretch where his second down play calling was pretty awful.

 

None of this excuses JB's play, and I'm not being sensational about it. But even with JB as the starter, we reasonably could have gone 11-5 this year. 

 

So my preferred approach is draft the next guy, let him compete with JB and whoever wins the job is the starter, but if it's JB, make sure we have a solid receiving corps around him, figure out what to do on second down, throw some screens in neutral situations, keep working on the defense, and see what happens in 2020. I think there's a reasonable floor with JB as the starter, and a potentially acceptable ceiling. But either way, proceed in 2020 with the goal of getting the next guy ready to be the starter asap, while putting a good team around whoever the starter is.

 

Again, JMO, but I wouldn't just scrap the QB room. That's an overreaction, to me.

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37 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not. JMO.

 

I'm not making excuses for JB's play, and you know I think we need to improve. But it is still a fact, based in our present reality, that the WR room got decimated by injury, then JB got hurt (which probably directly cost us two games), then he played his way back to reasonable health but wasn't as effective anymore, and TY was out, and the staff had built a roster around Luck and not JB, and they were shellshocked by the retirement as well. Oh, and AV did cost us games. Also, Reich went through a weird stretch where his second down play calling was pretty awful.

 

None of this excuses JB's play, and I'm not being sensational about it. But even with JB as the starter, we reasonably could have gone 11-5 this year. 

 

So my preferred approach is draft the next guy, let him compete with JB and whoever wins the job is the starter, but if it's JB, make sure we have a solid receiving corps around him, figure out what to do on second down, throw some screens in neutral situations, keep working on the defense, and see what happens in 2020. I think there's a reasonable floor with JB as the starter, and a potentially acceptable ceiling. But either way, proceed in 2020 with the goal of getting the next guy ready to be the starter asap, while putting a good team around whoever the starter is.

 

Again, JMO, but I wouldn't just scrap the QB room. That's an overreaction, to me.

 

All valid points (as always from you), Super.

 

However, as someone pointed out when JB was thrown into the fire, he is a guy that will probably be good enough to get us close to the playoffs each year with a typical 10-6 to 8-8 range, and that is a nasty place to be: not bad enough to ever get us a high draft pick and not good enough to carry the team to a championship win. We’re going nowhere, and fast. Really tricky since Ballard and Reich have praised him so much that they almost have to stick with it at least one more year. 

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45 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's not. JMO.

 

I'm not making excuses for JB's play, and you know I think we need to improve. But it is still a fact, based in our present reality, that the WR room got decimated by injury, then JB got hurt (which probably directly cost us two games), then he played his way back to reasonable health but wasn't as effective anymore, and TY was out, and the staff had built a roster around Luck and not JB, and they were shellshocked by the retirement as well. Oh, and AV did cost us games. Also, Reich went through a weird stretch where his second down play calling was pretty awful.

 

None of this excuses JB's play, and I'm not being sensational about it. But even with JB as the starter, we reasonably could have gone 11-5 this year. 

 

So my preferred approach is draft the next guy, let him compete with JB and whoever wins the job is the starter, but if it's JB, make sure we have a solid receiving corps around him, figure out what to do on second down, throw some screens in neutral situations, keep working on the defense, and see what happens in 2020. I think there's a reasonable floor with JB as the starter, and a potentially acceptable ceiling. But either way, proceed in 2020 with the goal of getting the next guy ready to be the starter asap, while putting a good team around whoever the starter is.

 

Again, JMO, but I wouldn't just scrap the QB room. That's an overreaction, to me.

I fear JB as the starter brings the team 7-9 wins.   The goal should be higher than that. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

 

All valid points (as always from you), Super.

 

However, as someone pointed out when JB was thrown into the fire, he is a guy that will probably be good enough to get us close to the playoffs each year with a typical 10-6 to 8-8 range, and that is a nasty place to be: not bad enough to ever get us a high draft pick and not good enough to carry the team to a championship win. We’re going nowhere, and fast. Really tricky since Ballard and Reich have praised him so much that they almost have to stick with it at least one more year. 

 

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I fear JB as the starter brings the team 7-9 wins.   The goal should be higher than that. 

 

I don't think there's a reasonable solution that leads to a better projection than that in 2020. Unless you hit on a rookie who lights it up in Year 1, any QB transition right now is going to lead to a mediocre 2020 season. 

 

The point is that you have a guy to transition to. If you draft a guy now, and he either sits for a year, or gets the starting job, you're still going to have trouble winning games next year. But if he's on the roster and working with the staff to get ready, then once he does play, you reset your expectations accordingly.

 

Blowing out the QB room is an overreaction, unless the objective is to bottom out (which I'm against anyway). But there's no reason to bottom out if you draft your next guy in 2020. 

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Not sure this quote is 100 accurate but if it is I LOVE the honesty from Arians.

 

 

Kinda wish the Colts did some of that..... Instead they continue to try and save face for a below average QB.

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22 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

 

 

Not sure this quote is 100 accurate but if it is I LOVE the honesty from Arians.

 

 

Kinda wish the Colts did some of that..... Instead they continue to try and save face for a below average QB.

 

What do the Colts have to gain by undermining Brissett? Nothing.

 

What does Arians gain by undermining Winston? Contract leverage? 

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8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What do the Colts have to gain by undermining Brissett? Nothing.

 

What does Arians gain by undermining Winston? Contract leverage? 

Well I mean he threw as many tds as ints so he isn't  wrong 

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9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

What do the Colts have to gain by undermining Brissett? Nothing.

 

What does Arians gain by undermining Winston? Contract leverage? 

Agreed.  Plus Arians is just that way.  While it scores points with frustrated fans I doubt it does much for him if he has to go back and try to coach Winston.

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4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Well I mean he threw as many tds as ints so he isn't  wrong 

 

Not the point. If Reich said 'Brissett isn't a very good playmaker,' it would be factually correct, but would not help the Colts in anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not the point. If Reich said 'Brissett isn't a very good playmaker,' it would be factually correct, but would not help the Colts in anyway.

If Brissett  starts next year I'll not expecting  much unless we draft the next barry Sanders  and have the 85 bears defense  along with the next moss

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17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Why are you guys so worried Reich is going to stick with Jacoby lol. I guarantee he will say a bunch of positive stuff just to not find away what our plans are.


You also guaranteed Brissett was the answer and we wouldn’t be drafting a QB...

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12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not the point. If Reich said 'Brissett isn't a very good playmaker,' it would be factually correct, but would not help the Colts in anyway.

Exactly publicly ripping your players does more to hurt you in the locker room than help you.  
 

I go back to something Mathis said in 2011 when he commented on Caldwell not yelling at them.  He said something along the lines of “you have to understand we are grown men trying to do our job.  We don’t need another man yelling at us just like people don’t respect their boss if all they do is yell at them.”  
 

I understand why fans like it when a coach “tells it like it is” because it validates their frustrations but in reality it rarely helps and needs to only be used sparingly.  
 

just like when Dungy said after the Texans loss in 06 “we have some tackling issues we need to clean up” in his post game presser.  Players said that sent shockwaves through the locker room and got their attention because Dungy made it a point to never do that publicly and well we saw the result about a month later. 

 

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:


You also guaranteed Brissett was the answer and we wouldn’t be drafting a QB...

I never said that lol. 

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20 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

So.......Ballard had had 3 years to build this D and if anything, they have gotten worse.  I go results not on how many of his picks r starting.  This D is horrendous.

 

This years offense gave very little chances for the defense to succeed, every defense in the NFL would have buckled from how poorly this offense moved the football and put up points. 

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

What do the Colts have to gain by undermining Brissett? Nothing.

 

What does Arians gain by undermining Winston? Contract leverage? 

 

Honesty my take here may sound ridiculous because most is handled in house I would assume. however I believe the players listen. To me I truly believe that guys like T.Y. AC and others know the QB is an issue and want change. With that though the coach coming out and saying it is a “entire offense problem” and continuously standing up for Brissett making it sound like he is not an issue is a problem. I understand not wanting to call out a player but the way the Colts handle business sometimes make it seem like they are completely hard headed. Again I believe the players take notice of this but again I’m sure they do ALOT behind the scenes.

 

And yes I was thinking that about Arians. Especially after that report of Winston wanting to be paid like a top 10 QB.

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19 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Till Kelly can show he has what it takes he will not be a starter.

This nonsense of fans thinking he is better than JB is not shared by no one in the Colts coaching staff. He wasn't even active the last two weeks so there that is.

Regardless what JB does Kelly hasn't shown he is a starter to no one but butt hurt forum fans. 

He may get his chance in training camp and pre season, who knows? 

If he is even on the roster. 

Saying that he "hasn't shown he is a starter" sounds like more of a personal opinion than anything that can be substantiated. I don't think it's really possible to know the Colts' reasons for not giving him a chance. It could be that they were already psychologically committed to JB, and he was going to be the starter no matter what. It could be that they had concerns centered around his character/maturity, and wanted to see evidence that he could stay out of trouble. From what I've seen of his play, he has significantly better QB skills than Brissett, even though that based on a smaller sample size. 

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16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That is thing I do not understand, why does 90% of the forum believe Chad Kelly would be a better option over JB? That is like they are saying they know more than Reich and Ballard. Believe me, if Reich and Ballard thought Kelly was far better he wouldve been playing by week 8 after JB's injury. That is common sense. 

I think it’s because JB is quite obviously terrible.

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2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I think it’s because JB is quite obviously terrible.

If so, why wouldn't a top 5 GM in the league and a good coach play Kelly then? That was my question. 

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12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If so, why wouldn't a top 5 GM in the league and a good coach play Kelly then? That was my question. 

I was in the play Kelly camp but maybe they think Kelly is terrible or isn’t ready yet.  That’s all I can come up with without going into conspiracies.

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38 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

 

Honesty my take here may sound ridiculous because most is handled in house I would assume. however I believe the players listen. To me I truly believe that guys like T.Y. AC and others know the QB is an issue and want change. With that though the coach coming out and saying it is a “entire offense problem” and continuously standing up for Brissett making it sound like he is not an issue is a problem. I understand not wanting to call out a player but the way the Colts handle business sometimes make it seem like they are completely hard headed. Again I believe the players take notice of this but again I’m sure they do ALOT behind the scenes.

 

And yes I was thinking that about Arians. Especially after that report of Winston wanting to be paid like a top 10 QB.

 

A few games ago, TY dropped a big third down pass. Reich didn't call him out. AC has missed blocks and assignments, Reich hasn't called him out.

 

The desire to see/hear a coaching staff publicly call out players has very little correlation to winning, if any at all.

 

What the players do see is that the playbook changed as the season went on. When Hilton asks Reich why they don't throw more on second and long, I'm pretty sure Reich doesn't say it's because JB isn't good enough, but I bet Hilton can put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4. When he had some questionable 4th down attempts in the middle of the season, I'm pretty sure everyone in the locker room understood that AV's status influenced the decision making.

 

If a player is concerned with the QB situation, he's not waiting around to hear the coach talk about the QB situation. He wants to see what the staff does with the QB. That's all that matters. 

 

Arians can blast Jameis all he wants, but if he starts Jameis again in 2020 and he has another 30/30 season, what difference do his words make? 

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9 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

This is one of many situation where people overpaid (in future draft picks) to rush up and grab a potential star......

 

This is a total crap shoot. 

 

 A third of the QBs taken in the first round actually work out to lead their team to playoffs

 

We have some very nice draft capitol that we could potentially trade

 

Its tempting, but what a risk!

Agreed.  Looking closer at potential draftable QBs, taking one at 13 or moving up could severely hurt the team more than potential help.

  I just heard them talk about how many QBs were drafted in the 1st and the low number of ultimate “good” QBS.  Cincinnati has been thru it too.  Mason Rudolph (pitt’s 1st rd pick) is lookin kess than effective, etc.

  JB can be better, especially with weapons added and back from injury.  JB may not be the long-term (he could also), but i really dont want Ballard reaching either.  If value at QB isnt there, and Ballard and Co arent thrilled with any this year, then we just gotta look at FA and have competition with Jb and whoever else IS here.  One of the best things about Ballard is he doesnt handicap the future of the team.  He’ll have ideas.  Its his job.

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JB is starting next year.  All signs are there with the coach and GM speak.  I don’t think he’s the long term answer, but he will be starting next year.   AC possibly retiring tells me he sees the team going nowhere so what’s the point of continuing to grind when team simply doesn’t have realistic championship aspirarions.

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's not. JMO.

 

I'm not making excuses for JB's play, and you know I think we need to improve. But it is still a fact, based in our present reality, that the WR room got decimated by injury, then JB got hurt (which probably directly cost us two games), then he played his way back to reasonable health but wasn't as effective anymore, and TY was out, and the staff had built a roster around Luck and not JB, and they were shellshocked by the retirement as well. Oh, and AV did cost us games. Also, Reich went through a weird stretch where his second down play calling was pretty awful.

 

None of this excuses JB's play, and I'm not being sensational about it. But even with JB as the starter, we reasonably could have gone 11-5 this year. 

 

So my preferred approach is draft the next guy, let him compete with JB and whoever wins the job is the starter, but if it's JB, make sure we have a solid receiving corps around him, figure out what to do on second down, throw some screens in neutral situations, keep working on the defense, and see what happens in 2020. I think there's a reasonable floor with JB as the starter, and a potentially acceptable ceiling. But either way, proceed in 2020 with the goal of getting the next guy ready to be the starter asap, while putting a good team around whoever the starter is.

 

Again, JMO, but I wouldn't just scrap the QB room. That's an overreaction, to me.

Super, I agree with you 99% of the time but not in your corner here. JB has proven throughout his college and pro career that he is average at best. I am totally in favor of drafting a QB and gambling on him being the answer. I am 100% convinced that JB is not the answer and just a year ago I thought we could get a 2nd for him though you I believe disputed that and you were correct I hindsight.

I feel injuries are way overblown. All teams deal with that and in JBs case he never missed a snap in practice all year and was day to day prior to the Miami game and took every practice snap  leading up to that game. Unfortunately I think Ebron's injury was between his ears as he wanted out of this JB fiasco before he was considered part of the problem. 100% disagree with his actions as I think they were chicken waste but so be it.

My feeling is the sooner we move beyond JB the better off we are. We may miss a time or two but we must move on and take our chances.

Many will disagree with me. Bring it on.

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6 hours ago, Mike Tahoe said:

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't mind seeing what an offensive minded coach like Frank could do with Cam Newton.

Ok, I'll bite.   That's crazy talk.

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12 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Aaron, I think that the Colts want to give Kelly some time to see if he is straighten out his personal life. Would be devastating if he started to perform well and then had one of his relapses. Could you imagine the fire storm and the picks and axes coming out and going after Ballard if that happened? Can see it now from 25 posters "I told you so".

I agree i think they want to see him focused this offseason. I hope if he keeps his nose cleaned and is focused on the team he gets a fair shot at playing time.

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On 12/30/2019 at 12:36 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

Brissett should never start another game for us. Draft a QB, sign one in FA, do what you have to do. Brissett is a trash QB. I'd rather watch the Patriots then a Brissett-led team in 2020, and they make me sick.

I have been to Foxboro a few times, I can give you directions. You do know that you sound like a spoiled little child, don't you. Every time things are not going our way.......

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    • I'm not so sure he would survive on the PS.  Last year we paid him a significant salary to keep teams away.  This year we won't be able to.  If he has a good camp and preseason I could see him landing as a backup somewhere even with Cam out there.  I would bet a number of teams would be interested especially at what his contract would look like.  Maybe even the Patriots.  I believe at the end of this year if he was on our roster he would be a restricted FA not unrestricted.  That would give us a little more control and might be an additional factor on keeping him on the roster this year.   
    • Yes the new CBA changed that. Except for a couple veterans you can keep on the PS and pay more. Basically Kelly would be getting a 150k pay cut.
    • Most reports coming out have Hoyer starting over Stidham who isnt ready, as we saw last year Hoyer is done,shot,Curtis Painter level.....who is their go to wr ? Sanu ? M Lee ? N Henry ?  Go to rb ? Michel laid an egg last season with 3.7 yards per carry and now D's will load up even more vs their run game .  The talent simply is not there, they tank for a season and try and reload with Lawrence and bring in a few Free Agents. Brady isnt there to save this outmatched squad. Go to Vegas and bet the under on wins which is 9.5, they wont reach 10 wins, not even close, easy money trust me. I know a few of you here followed my XFL bets and cashed in with me on over under on the games coming in under consistently..cash in on this one as well.
    • Question:   Who says we can’t pay our favorite PS players more than the basic price?    We did last year.    Kelly made roughly $500k, the highest of any player in the NFL.   Did that change?   Is that no longer allowable?   Thanks...
    • That horse looks pretty jacked up.....   Let’s get rid of Blue and then bring Andrew back and put a horse head on him.... let him earn some of that 24 million Jimmy gave him.   
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