SI Article by Greg Bishop

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It says... "But the Colts were far more than fortunate."

 

"Far more than fortunate" implies to me that something better than a holdover occurred. 

 

We might just wind up on different pages on this one, and that's fine, but what makes me think the writer is talking about the decision to keep JB being good for the Colts is the line in a subsequent paragraph:

 

As Brissett relays the story in late November, he remains floored by Ballard’s foresight. “Chris,” he says, “is a beast.”

 

To me, the point is Ballard was smart enough to value having a good backup, just in case, and that "just in case" came more quickly than anyone knew it would. So we can say 'dang, it's lucky Ballard didn't trade JB,' but the writer -- and, it seems, JB as well -- is giving Ballard credit for making the decision to keep him, which worked out heavily in the Colts favor.

 

By the way, I wonder what prompted that conversation between Ballard and JB, in early summer. I wonder if JB was dissatisfied with his backup role, and wanted a chance to leave. But the article also says negotiations started in that meeting, so I wonder if it was prompted by JB just wanting to know what the plan was, and 'if you're going to keep me, let's talk about an extension.' 

[2006Coltsbestever]

When Andrew Luck retired I picked us to go 8-8 as a team. I figured we wouldn't be bad and still be average at worse. In games JB has started and finished we are actually 7-6. He is a great teammate/leader and a great backup. IMO, he can even be an above average starter for a whole season and have seasons where the Colts can win 10 games with him. He just never will be a franchise QB IMO. I really do not think it's fair for anyone to compare him to an Andrew Luck though. Andrew was a top 5 QB in the league coming into this year. JB got thrown in as the starter 2 weeks before the season and I thought he handled it well when we started 5-2, since his injury he hasn't looked the same. Then the WR core gets depleted by injury and our kicking game has at least cost us 2 games if not maybe 3.

 

Many love stats in here and put less weight on wins, so lets talk stats. He had a bad YPA and yards per game average but also had a 14 TD to 3 INT ratio before his injury. He is a guy that isn't going to throw for many yards but also is a guy that isn't just going to hand the game over either by playing dumb.

[WoolMagnet]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Sometimes I question that. There are people who want him to fail.

Yea, but those people also like to fart in the bathtub and call it a jacuzzi.

[Dingus McGirt]

Fairly obvious JB's agent is slipping cash to a couple of "sportswriters."

[esmort]

1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Also, everyone talks about the regression and it being because they have tape on JB.  Isn't the natural progression to know have the offseason to review his tape and make adjustments on the Colts and JB's part to counteract the defense.

 

If the tape the DCs have on him resulted in adjustments based on his traits and limitations that are rarely correctable by coaching than the Colts and Reich are limited in the adjustments they can make. 

 

 

It seems there some adjustments that Reich knows need to be made but doesn't because he knows they are beyond JB's skill set. Instead he tries to come up with something that works around JB's limitations, which is frequently less than ideal. 

 

I fear that JB's issues may be a lack of the some of skills or traits a good QB either has or doesn't and no amount of coaching or time is going to change that. If that's the case the Colts will always be playing with a major disadvantage. 

[Dingus McGirt]

1 minute ago, WoolMagnet said:

Yea, but those people also like to fart in the bathtub and call it a jacuzzi.

Nice "Trading Places" reference!

[The Fish]

1 hour ago, ClaytonColt said:

Can't believe he cried after throwing for 158 yards.

 

There would have been people on here chanting MVP after that sort of performance.

I chuckled, but that's not exactly the story. He got the snot kicked out him in 17' and it was doing to him what had happened to his predecessor. 

The line really wasn't very good for a long time.

[richard pallo]

48 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Fairly obvious JB's agent is slipping cash to a couple of "sportswriters."

Except JB is his own agent.

[lennymoore24]

2 hours ago, FRW said:

If we win Sunday we will be 4-2, second in the division and one bad loss from making the playoffs. We left seven points on the field in an overtime loss to the Chargers. An average kicker wins that game for us. At Pittsburgh our backup QB throws a pick six as we are driving to go up two scores early and then our kicker, again misses a XP and later a chip shot FG that would have won the game. Then against Miami our backup QB stinks up the place and loses to one of the worst teams in the NFL. So three games that we should have won, none of which could be blamed on JB. We win those we are hosting a playoff game.

 

I'll give him an off season to prepare as the starter, and let's see what he can do with a full compliment of healthy receivers before we decide he is Johnny Manziel, and move on with an untested mid round draftee or a washed up past his prime FA like Andy Dalton. 

 

So then we get into the playoffs and get crushed.  Is that a successful season?  Isn't the idea to win the Super Bowl?  My point is we can argue that we should have a few more wins, but does that change how Brissett has looked on the field?  Two years and little offense.  The sooner we move on the better.

[Myles]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When Andrew Luck retired I picked us to go 8-8 as a team. I figured we wouldn't be bad and still be average at worse. In games JB has started and finished we are actually 7-6. He is a great teammate/leader and a great backup. IMO, he can even be an above average starter for a whole season and have seasons where the Colts can win 10 games with him. He just never will be a franchise QB IMO. I really do not think it's fair for anyone to compare him to an Andrew Luck though. Andrew was a top 5 QB in the league coming into this year. JB got thrown in as the starter 2 weeks before the season and I thought he handled it well when we started 5-2, since his injury he hasn't looked the same. Then the WR core gets depleted by injury and our kicking game has at least cost us 2 games if not maybe 3.

 

Many love stats in here and put less weight on wins, so lets talk stats. He had a bad YPA and yards per game average but also had a 14 TD to 3 INT ratio before his injury. He is a guy that isn't going to throw for many yards but also is a guy that isn't just going to hand the game over either by playing dumb.

I think everyone agrees that he could never be as good as Luck.  As far as comparing, I think the only one would be for seeing how many wins less Brissett is worth.  Looks like 3.5 less wins with Brissett than Luck.  Just comparing his play results in 2017 and 2019 to Lucks in 2016 and 2018.   

 

He didn't really get "thrown in as the starter 2 weeks before the season".   He was planning on starting a couple or few to start.    

 

Sounds like you are defining "game manager"

 

I think if a team has a solid defense, a great O-line and a good running game, he could be an 8-10 game winner.   I don't see him going far in the playoffs though.   

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think everyone agrees that he could never be as good as Luck.  As far as comparing, I think the only one would be for seeing how many wins less Brissett is worth.  Looks like 3.5 less wins with Brissett than Luck.  Just comparing his play results in 2017 and 2019 to Lucks in 2016 and 2018.   

 

He didn't really get "thrown in as the starter 2 weeks before the season".   He was planning on starting a couple or few to start.    

 

Sounds like you are defining "game manager"

 

I think if a team has a solid defense, a great O-line and a good running game, he could be an 8-10 game winner.   I don't see him going far in the playoffs though.   

I had Andrew Luck winning 11 maybe 12 games before the season so I agree, the difference is 3.5 games. Andrew Luck is a franchise QB though. 

 

I was in the belief that Andrew Luck would start in the opener, never believed he wouldn't is why I said JB was thrown in as the starter. It was probably overwhelming regardless for JB. Could you imagine standing there joking/laughing with Andrew during a pre season game on the sideline, then Andrew says guess what I am retiring and you now have to be the man all year? JB probably had a 1000 things going through his mind at that point.

 

Plenty of game managers have won SB's so it is possible:

Jim Plunkett was a game manager and won 2 SB's in 1980, 1983 is the best example.

 

Jeff Hostetler won 1 in 1990.

 

Trent Dilfer won 1 in 2000.

 

Brad Johnson won 1 in 2002.

 

Joe Flacco won 1 in 2012.

 

Nick Foles won 1 beating Tom Brady in 2017. 

 

-JB is arguably as good as all of those QB's. I just covered all era's.

[Four2itus]

Reading that, I have several thoughts.........

 

1) I feel sorry for those who booed, degraded, or downtalked Luck in his retirement. 

 

2) I feel sorry for anyone who feel that piece was "fluff".

 

3) I am proud of Andrew for making the right decision, and I am saddened that it caused even more pain than he was already facing. No one......NO one, should have their life's career efforts belittled because of long term debilitating pain. I dealt with 12 years of lower back pain that was so depressing, I had thoughts I will not share about my continued existence. Thankfully, I have healed from that. 

 

4) I am also proud of Jacoby in facing with class, the difficult path he has walked to where he is today. He has earned the chance to get another season as the starting QB of the Colts. 

 

5) I will agree that there are likely no fans here who want Jacoby to fail. I do however, believe there are fans here who do not want him to succeed as a starter of the Colts, and have moved past him in their minds ....regardless of what he could become. 

 

 

 

[deedub75]

I was a huge advocate of JB and really thought he’d thrive having an entire offseason of first teams snaps.  I realize that Luck was technically still there but JB took snaps as if he were the starter. But the way I see things now is that he will only be successful if the team around him is drastically improved and I’m not certain that the team will be as drastically improved as it needs to be. He will never carry a team like Luck did. 

[MPStack]

31 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I had Andrew Luck winning 11 maybe 12 games before the season so I agree, the difference is 3.5 games. Andrew Luck is a franchise QB though. 

 

I was in the belief that Andrew Luck would start in the opener, never believed he wouldn't is why I said JB was thrown in as the starter. It was probably overwhelming regardless for JB. Could you imagine standing there joking/laughing with Andrew during a pre season game on the sideline, then Andrew says guess what I am retiring and you now have to be the man all year? JB probably had a 1000 things going through his mind at that point.

 

Plenty of game managers have won SB's so it is possible:

Jim Plunkett was a game manager and won 2 SB's in 1980, 1983 is the best example.

 

Jeff Hostetler won 1 in 1990.

 

Trent Dilfer won 1 in 2000.

 

Brad Johnson won 1 in 2002.

 

Joe Flacco won 1 in 2012.

 

Nick Foles won 1 beating Tom Brady in 2017. 

 

-JB is arguably as good as all of those QB's. I just covered all era's.

 

Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer didn’t play week 1 all the way to the SB. 
 

Brad Johnson is the only QB, that did this to my knowledge, so the list is actually is smaller (1) for game manager types.

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer didn’t play week 1 all the way to the SB. 
 

Brad Johnson is the only QB, that did this to my knowledge, so the list is actually is smaller (1) for game manager types.

 

 

They all still won SB's though is my point and were the playoff QB's during their run. 

[MPStack]

5 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer didn’t play week 1 all the way to the SB. 
 

Brad Johnson is the only QB, that did this to my knowledge, so the list is actually is smaller (1) for game manager types.

Quoting myself here, B. Johnson (game manager) started 13 regular season games in the Bucs SB season. 
 

Conclusion: A true game manager QB actually starting the entire season and helping their team win the SB is RARE. 
 

 

[Myles]

16 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

Reading that, I have several thoughts.........

 

1) I feel sorry for those who booed, degraded, or downtalked Luck in his retirement. 

 

2) I feel sorry for anyone who feel that piece was "fluff".

 

3) I am proud of Andrew for making the right decision, and I am saddened that it caused even more pain than he was already facing. No one......NO one, should have their life's career efforts belittled because of long term debilitating pain. I dealt with 12 years of lower back pain that was so depressing, I had thoughts I will not share about my continued existence. Thankfully, I have healed from that. 

 

4) I am also proud of Jacoby in facing with class, the difficult path he has walked to where he is today. He has earned the chance to get another season as the starting QB of the Colts. 

 

5) I will agree that there are likely no fans here who want Jacoby to fail. I do however, believe there are fans here who do not want him to succeed as a starter of the Colts, and have moved past him in their minds ....regardless of what he could become. 

 

 

 

I cry nonsense on the bolded part.   Players earn the right to start by playing well.   Brissett really hasn't.   I don't think anyone has said anything mean about Brissett.   He is a class act through and through.   But he lacks what it takes to be a good NFL QB.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Quoting myself here, B. Johnson (game manager) started 13 regular season games in the Bucs SB season. 
 

Conclusion: A true game manager QB actually starting the entire season and helping their team win the SB is RARE. 
 

 

I agree but if they play a lot of the season and start all playoff games it is still legit.

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, MPStack said:

 

Foles, Hostetler, and Dilfer didn’t play week 1 all the way to the SB. 
 

Brad Johnson is the only QB, that did this to my knowledge, so the list is actually is smaller (1) for game manager types.

 

 

I think the conversation was about Brissett starting next season.   This season is over.   

But you do make the point that it is extremely rare.   I don't think I would put Foles on the list.   He played great on the Super BOwl run.   Over 300 yards per game in 3 playoff games that year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree but if they play a lot of the season and start all playoff games it is still legit.

Trent Dilfer played in 11 games in 2000 and Jim Plunkett went 13 in 1980 and 14 in 1983. I just looked those up.  

[WoolMagnet]

3 hours ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Nice "Trading Places" reference!

It was actually a loose reference to a line in Tropic Thunder about falling too deep in character in a movie and “fartin in bathtubs and laughing.” (LOVE that movie). ......“Where are my jellybeans?!”

 

I thought everyone knew about Redneck Jacuzzis.

 

wasnt aware of the trading places line.  Was that akroyd and whatshisface Gumby?

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I had Andrew Luck winning 11 maybe 12 games before the season so I agree, the difference is 3.5 games. Andrew Luck is a franchise QB though. 

 

I was in the belief that Andrew Luck would start in the opener, never believed he wouldn't is why I said JB was thrown in as the starter. It was probably overwhelming regardless for JB. Could you imagine standing there joking/laughing with Andrew during a pre season game on the sideline, then Andrew says guess what I am retiring and you now have to be the man all year? JB probably had a 1000 things going through his mind at that point.

 

Plenty of game managers have won SB's so it is possible:

Jim Plunkett was a game manager and won 2 SB's in 1980, 1983 is the best example.

 

Jeff Hostetler won 1 in 1990.

 

Trent Dilfer won 1 in 2000.

 

Brad Johnson won 1 in 2002.

 

Joe Flacco won 1 in 2012.

 

Nick Foles won 1 beating Tom Brady in 2017. 

 

-JB is arguably as good as all of those QB's. I just covered all era's.

 

"Plenty." That's five in 30 years, 16%. Great odds.

 

And we can argue about whether JB is better than the guys you named. For instance, Joe Flacco performed in a way that JB never has during the Ravens SB run. 

 

I like JB and want him to do well. My point is that it's not a good strategy to hitch your wagon to a guy with his ability.

[2006Coltsbestever]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

"Plenty." That's five in 30 years, 16%. Great odds.

 

And we can argue about whether JB is better than the guys you named. For instance, Joe Flacco performed in a way that JB never has during the Ravens SB run. 

 

I like JB and want him to do well. My point is that it's not a good strategy to hitch your wagon to a guy with his ability.

I could also of added Jim McMahon (1985) and Doug Williams (1987) as game managers too. Williams had a great SB but for most of his career was average. Peyton Manning won 1 SB in 14 seasons with us = 7% of the time.

[Fisticuffs111]

Eh, call me cynical but there seems to be an ulterior motive to this article. Like, mentioned earlier in the thread, prepping fans for potentially another season with JB.

 

Not that it isn’t a well written article by any means. And I did enjoy a behind the scenes look at the transition from Luck to JB. But when it came to describing his season, it very much plays up the good, which there was some good, and downplays/outright ignores his struggles. Not that I really expected to see it in this kind of an article, but still.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Eh, call me cynical but there seems to be an ulterior motive to this article. Like, mentioned earlier in the thread, prepping fans for potentially another season with JB.

 

Not that it isn’t a well written article by any means. And I did enjoy a behind the scenes look at the transition from Luck to JB. But when it came to describing his season, it very much plays up the good, which there was some good, and downplays/outright ignores his struggles. Not that I really expected to see it in this kind of an article, but still.

I would still take Love or even Eason if they are at 16. It's called insurance at the most important position.

[coltfaninnewyork]

I don't dislike him as a person,I really wanted him to succeed as a fan.Its not personal it's business .He is not good enough .

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

It was actually a loose reference to a line in Tropic Thunder about falling too deep in character in a movie and “fartin in bathtubs and laughing.” (LOVE that movie). ......“Where are my jellybeans?!”

 

I thought everyone knew about Redneck Jacuzzis.

 

wasnt aware of the trading places line.  Was that akroyd and whatshisface Gumby?

Yup...eddie murphy was introduced to the hot tub and said "man, when i was growing up, if we wanted Jacuzzi we had to fart in the tub."

[DougDew]

7 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

SI (for some reason)...especially has been touting JB. This is at least the third different writer (two in recent weeks) that I remember.

 

Back in April, Andy Benoit said he would take JB over Russell Wilson (because JB would have a cheaper contract). When Luck retired, he said that JB was the Colts next starting QB of the future and that he had elite upside. And he called JB’s contract extension the “mother of all bargains”...lol.

 

Gary Gramling wrote a snarky, apologetic mess of an article before Week 14 about why JB was still the Colts QB of the future.

 

And then you have this article by Greg Bishop.

 

Seems hard to believe that these three writers...all from the same outlet...would have these similar opinions without some type of external/internal motivation.

My Kreskin like understanding of the world (especially the media) doesn't go over well on this forum, so thanks for backing it up with corroborated facts, for those who need them.

 

Any reasonable person could tell when Booger McFarland was speaking so highly of JB as a QB in the NO game, despite the awful play that was unfolding before his own eyes, that he was simply saying the story line he was prepped with at a pre-production show meeting or something.  Then at halftime they probably met and regrouped to kill that line and went with what everybody else was seeing.

 

Its a bureaucracy.  Any story line gains a certain momentum that is tough to stop unless its confronted by dramatic head winds.  JBs bad play has been enough headwinds to kill that early story line so they pivoted towards more personal things.

[Two_pound]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this but I don't think it's accurate to say Brissett got the job "thrust upon him in a moments notice" remember Brissett had all the snaps the entire offseason from ota's mini camp, and training camp Luck never  took a one with the team. Brissett should have been very well prepared. He just didn't play well, it is time to move on.

[SOMDColtsfan]

I'm sure its happened to the best QB's but I cant get the picture of Jack Doyle running down the seam wide open vs the Saints and Brissett looking/throwing to the right. Its almost frightening to think of more of the same in store for 2020? And this goes back to his college career. Great guy but I fear Reich and Ballard are going to ride him right to the unemployment line

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

12 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I had tears reading that. That writer put a great human element on the story. Like I have been saying give him a actual off season as the starter and he might surprise everyone. When you read stories like that it does make you wonder if they will just continue to build around him. Injuries have been off the charts on offense.

these guys make millions playing a kids game, if he felt bad give the money back

[Aaron86]

17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

When reading that and how mentally he was not prepared it does show that having a season to take a breath and now go in to next season as the starter will be huge for him. Everyone wants to just ignore the fact he was not expecting this happen. He is a easy guy to want to root for. That’s why some us really want him to succeed. To the poster who mentioned all the different coaches he has had isa great point. If he can now have a stable coaching staff with Reich maybe he can actually develop now.

He plays in the NFL. you have to always be prepared to step up. That's all the Colts preach is next man up. Not being prepared is a player I do not want on my roster.

[Nadine]

I'm put off by the perspective of the article. It reads like a novel.  Doesn't mention who the author talked to or for how long. So, for me it doesn't add transparency to anything behind the scenes.

 

Although, I still want to know who leaked the retirement news while the game was going on.  I'm on the same page with Jacoby on that. It was a really hateful thing to do.  I wonder how much that person got paid and if they think it was worth it.

 

Still, I don't think it's a big media conspiracy or a 'narrative' of any sort.  I think SI knows that colts fans will click on stories about Brissett because we do.  

 

But, just because the article roots for Brissett doesn't mean that SI is in on some conspiracy to gaslight colts fans.

[Sumo63]

20 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

When reading that and how mentally he was not prepared it does show that having a season to take a breath and now go in to next season as the starter will be huge for him. Everyone wants to just ignore the fact he was not expecting this happen. He is a easy guy to want to root for. That’s why some us really want him to succeed. To the poster who mentioned all the different coaches he has had isa great point. If he can now have a stable coaching staff with Reich maybe he can actually develop now.

He took every rep in the preseason, and it's a backups job to prepare as though he were the starter.  I'm not saying he cant develop but we shouldnt ignore his body of work.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Sumo63
App quit while typing

[The Fish]

17 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They all still won SB's though is my point and were the playoff QB's during their run. 

Not a one of them was the catalyst to winning much of anything though. They were on the team, handing the ball off dutifully. This doesn't make a strong case for JB beyond "anything is possible" which I'm not personally satisfied to hang my hat on.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Not a one of them was the catalyst to winning much of anything though. They were on the team, handing the ball off dutifully. This doesn't make a strong case for JB beyond "anything is possible" which I'm not personally satisfied to hang my hat on.

I am not saying I feel confident or comfortable with JB winning a SB but he could as others have done it being game managers was my point.

[The Fish]

3 hours ago, Nadine said:

 

 

Although, I still want to know who leaked the retirement news while the game was going on.  I'm on the same page with Jacoby on that. It was a really hateful thing to do.  I wonder how much that person got paid and if they think it was worth it.

 

 

Adam Schefter (sp?) has told the story. He even alluded to how he got the leak without saying it directly. Someone in the Colts camp said something- as they're the only ones who'd know at the time.

I don't think it was hateful on his or anyone's part really- but it wasn't the best for Luck, no doubt. I think the situation was so profoundly odd and the years leading up to it weren't not odd and the nature of fandom for football is such that people were *, confused, upset ect and that usually doesn't lead to clapping or good vibes. Maybe people should ease up some now, but the whole situation sucked for all involved and not everyone takes bad news well.

[The Fish]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not saying I feel confident or comfortable with JB winning a SB but he could as others have done it being game managers was my point.

I got that. I guess the question would be how close are the Colts to fielding a D the looks like a BB ran D, or the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs?  

 

Ballard is going to need to build a unit that's exceptional somewhere on the field or this isn't going to work out well. Stating the obvious, I know. Sorry.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I got that. I guess the question would be how close are the Colts to fielding a D the looks like a BB ran D, or the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens or 2002 Bucs?  

 

Ballard is going to need to build a unit that's exceptional somewhere on the field or this isn't going to work out well. Stating the obvious, I know. Sorry.

What is funny is I had a person tell me at work if we stick with JB, that Ballard better draft all defense and go all in trying to have a dominant D.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Almost everyone in here hates boring, I don't really care for it either but if we win a SB like the 2002 Bucs did I will take it. When everyone is used to Peyton and Luck it is hard to adjust to a different style. I get it.