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lennymoore24

Josh Rosen

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1 hour ago, lennymoore24 said:

I think some of your are missing the point of my post.  Josh Rosen was considered a very good passer coming out of college.  My second favorite team is the Cardinals so I watch them almost every week too.  The coaching staff they had last year is one of the worst coaching staffs I have ever seen point together..  Their OC got fired halfway through his FIRST season with the team.  The entire staff was cleared out after one year.  I can't speak for the Dolphins as to why they trade a #2 for him and then hardly play him.


But the point is, if we aren't going to get one of the top QBs in the draft, I would rather see the Colts trade a 4 or 5 for Josh Rosen knowing there is a CHANCE he could develop rather than going another year with Jacoby Brissett who we know after two years won't get any better.   It's not a lot to give up for a heady guy who was very highly rated.

His accuracy deep and outside the pocket were bad in college. The biggest bag on him was lack of arm. 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would take Dalton from Roadhouse but from the Bengals, no thanks :funny:

You can have Dalton. I'll take Elizabeth (Kelly Lynch)

jrLar.jpg

 

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I wouldn't be upset if they brought Rosen in.   He was picked by many analysts as the best QB in his draft.   I'd rather have him than Hoyer and maybe Brissett.   

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What concerns me is how fast the Dolphins gave up on him and went with Fitz and stuck with him. That said, if he's a project is he a better project than Kelly? Would he be a better risk than our #2 (Hoyer), who IMO is a dude?? I'd take a flyer on him, the worst that could happen is that he's what two other teams though and he gets cut in training camp.

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33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah she was hot back in the day. 

She is still fit and looking good. 

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7 hours ago, ColtJax said:

What concerns me is how fast the Dolphins gave up on him and went with Fitz and stuck with him. That said, if he's a project is he a better project than Kelly? Would he be a better risk than our #2 (Hoyer), who IMO is a dude?? I'd take a flyer on him, the worst that could happen is that he's what two other teams though and he gets cut in training camp.

He's a much better project than Kelly, but I'm worried that it's too little too late at this pint in his short career.

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On 12/24/2019 at 4:01 PM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree having a duel threat at QB helps but how long can they stay healthy running a lot besides throwing. So far Wilson has stayed healthy but look at guys like Cam and RG3. If Lamar can stay healthy for the next 3 or 4 years playing his style than he would've beat the odds. I am sure the Ravens will take it. Even our own Andrew Luck paid the price by taking off and running too much. 

I believe our coaching staff would be the difference here. Cam and RG3 both suffered from bad coaching. Andrew Luck is the biggest example of a coaching staff failing a player that I have ever seen. He didn’t really pay the price of running too much as much as he did of running for his life. 
 

Our current coaching staff is light years ahead of the Grigson/Pagano days, I think they are capable of maximizing the talent of whoever is at QB. 

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What is the definition of a Pocket Passer? A QB who has NO running abilities?

What is the definition of a Mobile QB? A QB who cannot throw from the pocket?

 

It seems to me that mobile QBs have a negative stigma. I'm not sure why. BTW If a QB can sit in the pocket and throw, and could also run, then thats a negative? see Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Desean Watson, Russel Wilson, Rodgers, Teddy Bridgewater who actually has a better win percentage this year (5-0) and TD to Int (9-2) than most Pocket Qbs.

 

Ill even say Jimmy G is a mobile QB who could buy time and deliver the ball. But wants again, what is a packet passer?

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Ok, I'm gonna do a one-eighty today regarding Josh Rosen.  I've always thought that he was badly done by from the Cardinals, and I wanted them and their new QB, Kyler Murray to crash and burn because of it.

 

However.

 

Take a look at the comparison between Josh Rosen and Kyler Murray in their rookie years with Arizona:

Rosen: 217-393, 55.22%, 2278 yds, 11 TD, 14 INT, 45 sacks, 10 fumbles, 5 lost, 66.7 QB rating

Murray: 323-500, 64.6%, 3397 yds, 18 TD, 10 INT, 47 sacks, 3 fumbles, 0 lost, 87.9 QB rating

 

The Cardinals clearly improved their QB situation.  As much as I thought they screwed Rosen, it looks like they made a correct choice.

 

Sorry, Rosen.

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4 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

Ok, I'm gonna do a one-eighty today regarding Josh Rosen.  I've always thought that he was badly done by from the Cardinals, and I wanted them and their new QB, Kyler Murray to crash and burn because of it.

 

However.

 

Take a look at the comparison between Josh Rosen and Kyler Murray in their rookie years with Arizona:

Rosen: 217-393, 55.22%, 2278 yds, 11 TD, 14 INT, 45 sacks, 10 fumbles, 5 lost, 66.7 QB rating

Murray: 323-500, 64.6%, 3397 yds, 18 TD, 10 INT, 47 sacks, 3 fumbles, 0 lost, 87.9 QB rating

 

The Cardinals clearly improved their QB situation.  As much as I thought they screwed Rosen, it looks like they made a correct choice.

 

Sorry, Rosen.

Im not sure you can blame that all on the Qb. They also changed coaching staffs.

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5 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

Ok, I'm gonna do a one-eighty today regarding Josh Rosen.  I've always thought that he was badly done by from the Cardinals, and I wanted them and their new QB, Kyler Murray to crash and burn because of it.

 

However.

 

Take a look at the comparison between Josh Rosen and Kyler Murray in their rookie years with Arizona:

Rosen: 217-393, 55.22%, 2278 yds, 11 TD, 14 INT, 45 sacks, 10 fumbles, 5 lost, 66.7 QB rating

Murray: 323-500, 64.6%, 3397 yds, 18 TD, 10 INT, 47 sacks, 3 fumbles, 0 lost, 87.9 QB rating

 

The Cardinals clearly improved their QB situation.  As much as I thought they screwed Rosen, it looks like they made a correct choice.

 

Sorry, Rosen.

 

Good analysis but not sure that is fair.  The Cardinals had perhaps one of the worst coaching staffs I have ever seen last year.  OC fired in middle of season.  Entire staff fired after one year.  The Cards were much upgraded this year by trading for Kenyan Drake and bringing in more offensive lineman.  They also had a solid draft.  Not saying that Murray won't end up the better QB, but I think had Rosen played this year in Arizona with what they have, I believe he would have done better as well. But just an opinion :)

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11 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

 

Good analysis but not sure that is fair.  The Cardinals had perhaps one of the worst coaching staffs I have ever seen last year.  OC fired in middle of season.  Entire staff fired after one year.  The Cards were much upgraded this year by trading for Kenyan Drake and bringing in more offensive lineman.  They also had a solid draft.  Not saying that Murray won't end up the better QB, but I think had Rosen played this year in Arizona with what they have, I believe he would have done better as well. But just an opinion :)

Hard to give up on a QB who played limited action for a horrible Arizona team and a horrible Miami team.  It's weird that nearly all draft previews had him as one of the top QB's.

 

From Walters Football:

 

Strengths:

Lethal pocket passer

Throws a great spiral

Rare arm talent

Can really spin it; passes never wobble

Instincts

Can be an accurate passer with good ball placement

Field vision

Threads passes into tight windows

Throws receivers open

Can beat good coverage with his arm and accuracy

Developed field vision

Instincts

Throws with good timing

Stands tall in the pocket

Throws knowing he is going get hit

Good footwork

Has experience working under center

Throws with good timing

Good ball placement and timing to lead receivers for yards after the catch

Intelligent, advanced football IQ

Strong play recall



 


Weaknesses:

Durability

Has had at least one concussion

Has had shoulder, hand injuries

Poor intangibles

Questionable leadership traits

Quality of teammate

Different personality; could clash with teammates and coaches

Could have problems with the media


 

Summary: Rosen entered UCLA as a top recruit and quickly validated the hype, becoming an instant starter. He put together an impressive debut as a freshman, completing 60 percent of his passes for 3,670 yards with 23 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He only played in six games in 2016 before a shoulder injury ended his season. The sophomore completed 59 percent of his passes for 1,915 yards with 10 touchdowns and five interceptions that season.

To open his junior year, Rosen had a legendary Week 1 performance leading one of the greatest comeback wins in college football history. UCLA was down 44-10 in the third quarter before Rosen led the Bruins back to a 45-44 victory over Texas A&M. On the evening, he completed 35-of-58 passes for 491 yards with four touchdowns.

Rosen left UCLA's game against Washington with an undisclosed injury and missed the contest against Utah with a concussion. After returning to the field, Rosen played well, including throwing for over 400 yards against USC. He was pulled early in the regular-season finale against California and missed UCLA's bowl game. In 2017, Rosen completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,717 yards with 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.



Of the top quarterback prospects for the 2018 NFL Draft, Rosen has the best mechanics and is the most natural pocket passer. He throws a tremendous ball and can really spin it. Rosen's tight spiral helps him to get his passes through tight windows and beat good coverage. There is no throw that Rosen can't make for the NFL, and instantly next fall, he will be among the stronger arms of the starting quarterbacks in the league. The ball just explodes out of his hand, and you never saw his passes wobble when he went downfield.

For a college quarterback going to the NFL, Rosen has impressive footwork, and that leads to him throwing the ball accurately with good placement. Rosen's accuracy, timing, precision and arm strength make him deadly to move the ball down the field in a blur. He is good at running the 2-minute drill and is fully capable of carving up prevent zone defenses.

Rosen has good vision to work off his first read and find open targets, plus possesses the pocket presence to throw in the face of the rush. With his arm, feet, vision and stature, Rosen is prototypical pocket-passing quarterback prospect for the NFL.

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24 minutes ago, Myles said:

Hard to give up on a QB who played limited action for a horrible Arizona team and a horrible Miami team.  It's weird that nearly all draft previews had him as one of the top QB's.

 

From Walters Football:

 

Strengths:

Lethal pocket passer

Throws a great spiral

Rare arm talent

Can really spin it; passes never wobble

Instincts

Can be an accurate passer with good ball placement

Field vision

Threads passes into tight windows

Throws receivers open

Can beat good coverage with his arm and accuracy

Developed field vision

Instincts

Throws with good timing

Stands tall in the pocket

Throws knowing he is going get hit

Good footwork

Has experience working under center

Throws with good timing

Good ball placement and timing to lead receivers for yards after the catch

Intelligent, advanced football IQ

Strong play recall



 


Weaknesses:

Durability

Has had at least one concussion

Has had shoulder, hand injuries

Poor intangibles

Questionable leadership traits

Quality of teammate

Different personality; could clash with teammates and coaches

Could have problems with the media


 

Summary: Rosen entered UCLA as a top recruit and quickly validated the hype, becoming an instant starter. He put together an impressive debut as a freshman, completing 60 percent of his passes for 3,670 yards with 23 touchdowns and 11 interceptions. He only played in six games in 2016 before a shoulder injury ended his season. The sophomore completed 59 percent of his passes for 1,915 yards with 10 touchdowns and five interceptions that season.

To open his junior year, Rosen had a legendary Week 1 performance leading one of the greatest comeback wins in college football history. UCLA was down 44-10 in the third quarter before Rosen led the Bruins back to a 45-44 victory over Texas A&M. On the evening, he completed 35-of-58 passes for 491 yards with four touchdowns.

Rosen left UCLA's game against Washington with an undisclosed injury and missed the contest against Utah with a concussion. After returning to the field, Rosen played well, including throwing for over 400 yards against USC. He was pulled early in the regular-season finale against California and missed UCLA's bowl game. In 2017, Rosen completed 63 percent of his passes for 3,717 yards with 26 touchdowns and 10 interceptions.



Of the top quarterback prospects for the 2018 NFL Draft, Rosen has the best mechanics and is the most natural pocket passer. He throws a tremendous ball and can really spin it. Rosen's tight spiral helps him to get his passes through tight windows and beat good coverage. There is no throw that Rosen can't make for the NFL, and instantly next fall, he will be among the stronger arms of the starting quarterbacks in the league. The ball just explodes out of his hand, and you never saw his passes wobble when he went downfield.

For a college quarterback going to the NFL, Rosen has impressive footwork, and that leads to him throwing the ball accurately with good placement. Rosen's accuracy, timing, precision and arm strength make him deadly to move the ball down the field in a blur. He is good at running the 2-minute drill and is fully capable of carving up prevent zone defenses.

Rosen has good vision to work off his first read and find open targets, plus possesses the pocket presence to throw in the face of the rush. With his arm, feet, vision and stature, Rosen is prototypical pocket-passing quarterback prospect for the NFL.

 

 Wasn't there a part about his aloofness and concern about his love for the game that went with this? Asking for a friend.

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21 hours ago, waittilnextyear said:

 

 Wasn't there a part about his aloofness and concern about his love for the game that went with this? Asking for a friend.

I remember there being concerns about his "hunger" to win.  Maybe he's been humbled a bit now.  

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On 12/24/2019 at 3:29 PM, csmopar said:

no they aren't.  League has seen this before and its like everything else, its a cycle. Defenses will adjust eventually and then the advantage swings back to the pocket passer. 

you are spot on. I never did understand having your franchise QB running around and getting killed. none are built like running backs. Baltimore and texan's will see this play out olso.

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On 12/25/2019 at 6:40 PM, DEFENSE said:

we are desperate at qb, luck quit us

 

We are desperate at qb, Luck saved his life.

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Uh... tired of looking at this.

any reason it wasnt moved to draft / FA section?

i’ve seen threads more Colts related moved.

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On 12/27/2019 at 10:04 AM, Rackeen305 said:

What is the definition of a Pocket Passer? A QB who has NO running abilities?

What is the definition of a Mobile QB? A QB who cannot throw from the pocket?

 

It seems to me that mobile QBs have a negative stigma. I'm not sure why. BTW If a QB can sit in the pocket and throw, and could also run, then thats a negative? see Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Desean Watson, Russel Wilson, Rodgers, Teddy Bridgewater who actually has a better win percentage this year (5-0) and TD to Int (9-2) than most Pocket Qbs.

 

Ill even say Jimmy G is a mobile QB who could buy time and deliver the ball. But wants again, what is a packet passer?

IMO:

 

A pocket passer is a QB who has no running plays called for himself.  He gets his rushing yards primarily by scrambling.   That does not mean that he can't be mobile. 

 

A mobile QB, or running QB as I would say, is a QB who's running game is a big part of his game, an element to the offense, and opens up the passing game for him.  Typically, their passing game suffers if they cannot run successfully.  Cam Newton is a good example.

 

Lamar, Hurts, and Tua would also be good examples, IMO.

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19 minutes ago, Bert Johns said:

Tank for Trevor Lawrence. This guy is special. You don't win 29 strait games by being a slouch.

Stick with Brissett and fool some people they are actually trying to win.

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4 hours ago, Blueblood23 said:

Stick with Brissett and fool some people they are actually trying to win.

Its as easy as 1, 2, 3.........

 

1.Satisfy “some” Fans by starting Kelly.

2. Go 0-16

3. Grab Lawrence

 

Boom !

 

 

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It's ridiculous for the OP to say he doesn't want to see JB play another down but then bring up a bust like Rosen & make a million excuses for him & why we should bring him in...  Pull up his career stats.  I wouldn't give up a 7th rounder for that bum.  And please don't give me what prognosticators said he was supposed to be.  Andre Ware threw it all over the field in college & couldn't last in the league. 

 

So if we can all agree JB sucks, why give this other loser excuses when reality shows he's not even as good as JB???   Then you said you're taking him over Jordan Love & insinuated Love is only an athletic, inaccurate QB while Rosen is something better???  Pull up his pro stats & show me the great accuracy & decision making?  Love has no problem standing in the pocket and making all the throws.  I'm taking him over a two time loser in Rosen.  Hell I'd rather roll with JB & Swag Kelly over the over hyped bust out.

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6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

It's ridiculous for the OP to say he doesn't want to see JB play another down but then bring up a bust like Rosen & make a million excuses for him & why we should bring him in...  Pull up his career stats.  I wouldn't give up a 7th rounder for that bum.  And please don't give me what prognosticators said he was supposed to be.  Andre Ware threw it all over the field in college & couldn't last in the league. 

 

So if we can all agree JB sucks, why give this other loser excuses when reality shows he's not even as good as JB???   Then you said you're taking him over Jordan Love & insinuated Love is only an athletic, inaccurate QB while Rosen is something better???  Pull up his pro stats & show me the great accuracy & decision making?  Love has no problem standing in the pocket and making all the throws.  I'm taking him over a two time loser in Rosen.  Hell I'd rather roll with JB & Swag Kelly over the over hyped bust out.

I'm not a fan of Rosen, but I am curious.    Football experts had him as the #1 QB coming out.  It flipped from him and Darnold with Josh Allen getting some love.   Then the Arizona GM and scouting team thought he was good enough to draft with the 10th pick in the draft.   Then Miami seen enough in him to trade for him, although they didn't give much.   I think just a late 2nd rounder.   

Josh hasn't looked good in his short time in the NFL, so I am not sold at all.  Just wondering if Ballard sees anything in him to make it worth anything.   

 

 

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I was a big fan of him coming out of college, but you cannot ignore 2 years of suckage in the league. 2 teams with obvious need of a QB gave up on him, one is still paying him his salary to keep him away from their team. 

 

He might be worth taking a flyer on as a backup but I wouldn't go into a season with him as the presumptive starter. 

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8 minutes ago, stitches said:

I was a big fan of him coming out of college, but you cannot ignore 2 years of suckage in the league. 2 teams with obvious need of a QB gave up on him, one is still paying him his salary to keep him away from their team. 

 

He might be worth taking a flyer on as a backup but I wouldn't go into a season with him as the presumptive starter. 

I totally agree.   His limited starts in the NFL have been horrible.  In his defense it was on horrible teams.   That doesn't excuse him fully though.   

 

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On 12/24/2019 at 8:33 PM, Shadow_Creek said:

umm besides brady and manning name me a good decent pocket passer? cause if you say brees or rogers both are included in the mobile type

Umm, a mobile passer is more considered the type who has the ability to run and be dangerous with their legs, not just a qb who can take a few steps. Nobody is afraid of brees or Rodgers running for 10+ yards on any given play.  You set up an argument with parameters that are so strict just so you can make it difficult to counter. However your parameters are demonstrably false. 

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13 hours ago, Bert Johns said:

Tank for Trevor Lawrence. This guy is special. You don't win 29 strait games by being a slouch.

the team is too good for that.  not world beaters but our rushing  game alone will take us out of the running for the top pick 

 

they are not going to just throw up interceptions every play, you have to be really bad to intentionally tank.  players like ty, AC, nelson and DL wont stand for it

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22 hours ago, DougDew said:

IMO:

 

A pocket passer is a QB who has no running plays called for himself.  He gets his rushing yards primarily by scrambling.   That does not mean that he can't be mobile. 

 

A mobile QB, or running QB as I would say, is a QB who's running game is a big part of his game, an element to the offense, and opens up the passing game for him.  Typically, their passing game suffers if they cannot run successfully.  Cam Newton is a good example.

 

Lamar, Hurts, and Tua would also be good examples, IMO.

 

I don't know where you come up with this stuff, but Tua is nothing like those 2 nor in the realm of being a running QB.

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When a team sucks, a great QB can still stand out.  I'd taken Rosen as camp body and see what he can do there,  but that's about it.

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