137 million in cap space

[csmopar]

23 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

Over the cap is showing 98.7 million for 2012. 

yeah, we think Wells, who wrote the above article added in the roll over twice.

[Jdubu]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah with some adjustments, that figure will change. But I also expect at least three new deals -- AC, Kelly and TY. So once they start working, the numbers will be different.

I wonder what a TY deal looks like. After his past two seasons of being injured too much, and these injuries being on the lower half, those are extremely concerning types of injuries. If you get a guy who is rapidly breaking down in the speed Dept, how much do you pay for that? Do you play out this season and see what he does? Do you go the patriots way and get out before the rapid decline over the cliff occurs? It’s going to be a tough call for the emotional side of business imho.  

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Good breakdown.

 

I think there's an expectation that spending more money means the team will be better on the field. Seems logical, but when you think about, it's easy to spend more money. It's not quite so easy to make your team better, so there's a disconnect somewhere; the two do not go hand in hand.

 

And we can point to countless examples of players getting big FA contracts, but never performing. It's more common that big ticket FAs underperform, than live up to their contracts. If you're willing to accept that kind of return in FA, then that's one thing. Teams get more value from drafting and developing well, then paying their own, while using free agency judiciously.

 

It's critical to remember that cash spend vs cap spend is just accounting. You can move cap spending around, manipulate cap numbers, restructure contracts, frontload, backload, whatever. But once money is spent (including fully guaranteed money to be spent in future years), it's gone. Once cash goes it, it must hit the cap. And with cap rollover, it allows teams to manage their cap space with more freedom, rather than just year by year. So while it's true that a team might have more available cap space, that doesn't mean it's necessarily wise to spend that cap space right now.

 

If your team building strategy is to draft and develop well, then pay your own, and you have some immediate success with that strategy, it makes sense to withhold some cap space in the present to accommodate re-signing your highly performing draft picks. Once Nelson and Leonard hit All Pro, they basically locked in top of the market contracts (barring significant fall-off in performance, or injury). The Colts will be better equipped to absorb those contracts in the next CBA, assuming rollover is still a thing (and it likely will be). Same for other drafted players whose contracts come due.

 

And up until August, the team was likely planning on a $35m/year (or more) extension for Luck, probably in 2021. So their projection was probably to absorb some big extensions within a relatively short period of time, using their excess cap space. Account for prorated bonuses, and the cash would likely exceed the cap by tens of millions in 2020 and 2021. 

 

My main point is that you should spend on the right players, and by saving cap space for future years when your guys come up, you're laying a strong foundation. And that was an acceptable strategy, IMO, when we had a franchise-level QB. I think we need more help in 2020 than we thought we would, though, and since I think a high draft pick needs to go toward a QB, it makes sense that we allocate more resources to the rest of the roster in free agency. But that doesn't mean you spend just to spend. I still want the right guys, at the right positions, for the right price, because I think that leads to continued success.

 

I agree...and I do think cap space is mostly accounting. However, when used effectively/creatively, it can be quite the asset.

 

I don't know what the correlation to spending and winning/losing...as I am sure it shifts based on circumstance (like it will for the Colts when Nelson and Leonard need new deals). But I would assume teams that leave that much money on the table aren't typically competing for Super Bowls. NE for example...always seems to be near the cap. With a good FO and cap guy...I don't think it's much of an issue.

 

Luck could have played a role...however...wasn't he under contract through 2021? So when Ballard took over in 2017, they had cost control of their franchise QB for five more years. I understand having foresight...but I don't think Luck's contract would have had that much impact on earlier dealings. (Had Luck not retired, his contract is probably looking mighty nice over the next three years...but I digress.)

 

And the lack of spending...which was most prevalent in 2017 and 2018 (when the Colts were last in the league by a good margin in spending)...began before Leonard or Nelson were drafted. And then the much higher spending this past year...was mostly driven by extensions (one of which was very early) and spending $20M in cash on JB because Luck retired. Take away Moore and JB...and the Colts probably need to spend $90M+ in cash to satisfy the threshold. 

 

Again, I understand the desire for future flexibility...and I know impact talent typically comes via the draft. There is nothing wrong with that. But the sheer lack of spending overall makes it hard not to wonder if there is more to it than just how Ballard operates. 

 

 

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, Indyfan4life said:

I don’t expect Ballard to go nuts, but it’s also clear trying to rely on nothing but lower draft picks and average FA signings will not get it done for us. Unless he’s content finishing 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 every season at best. 

Dallas has spent to insane money over the years and what do they have to show for it? I mean, they have premiums at the RB, the Wr and the QB spots. The oline is a plus and they have a pretty solid group on the defensive side as well. They have as many SB appearances as we’ve had since 2012

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I would like for him to sign one or two guys that can make a impact. I could see us paying for a DT.  This team has a good foundation now it’s time to get a couple guys that can make a impact and are play makers. He is going to have to overpay some to get that.

[jameszeigler834]

4 hours ago, Superman said:

I'm thinking he's double-counting the rollover. After the Doyle extension, I have it at under $100m. 

Even if it at or just under 100 million more than enough to sign a great player or 2 without spending all of it he needs to do something this year clearly his build through the draft approach isn't totally working.

[Indyfan4life]

21 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

Dallas has spent to insane money over the years and what do they have to show for it? I mean, they have premiums at the RB, the Wr and the QB spots. The oline is a plus and they have a pretty solid group on the defensive side as well. They have as many SB appearances as we’ve had since 2012

Dallas is more interested in signing big names for the sake of signing big names. And while they did draft some absolute studs on the Oline and made a couple decent moves in FA, it comes down to coaching as well. Everyone calls for Jason Garrett to be fired for a reason. The play calling this season has been laughable for the Cowboys. You have Zeke. Why are you throwing the ball in running situations? Dallas does better when Zeke runs the ball more, but for whatever reason Garrett wants Dak to force feed Cooper. I’m not saying Ballard needs to blow his load and put us in the negative... But I am saying something needs to happen because it’s obvious just building through the draft and adding average at best players isn’t going to put us over the top. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Let's say you can get Nick Foles for a moderate draft pick. Is that a reasonable approach?

 

For me...yes. But I am a Foles fan.

 

People keep saying that it’s similar to the Osweiler situation where HOU had to include a 2nd round pick. It’s not...Osweiler was a never was who had a horrific season before being traded. Foles has had success and is coming off an injury-plagued season on a team that looks like it gave up. I don’t think JAC is giving up a pick...but I do think Foles would be cheap to acquire.

 

I am fuzzy on the overall contract details...but from what I understand...the acquiring team would only pay his base salary...~$15M and then it’s non-gtd base salaries going forward. 

 

So if you traded JB...and save $9M...you are only paying $6M more to have Foles next year. Release Hoyer and that cuts it down to $3M. 

 

For $3M more in cap space...you can have Foles + rookie...instead of JB + Hoyer. And who knows...the pick they get back for JB is likely better than the one they gave up. I would take that setup.

 

(JB also has a roster bonus...and IF that can be traded...then I think the Colts actually save money in this scenario...which makes it a no-brainer).

 

It seems like a drastic move...to scrap the entire QB room...but it might be best (for everyone involved)...to have a fresh start.

 

And while Foles might seem like old hat to some (given the Reich connection)...I think it would invigorate some of the fans...and obviously he has a pretty good recent track record of being a positive influence in the QB room...so he would fill that mentor role as well. 

 

I have always wonder what this team would have looked like if Luck had retired in Feb...maybe Foles is already a Colt.

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

For me...yes. But I am a Foles fan.

 

People keep saying that it’s similar to the Osweiler situation where HOU had to include a 2nd round pick. It’s not...Osweiler was a never was who had a horrific season before being traded. Foles has had success and is coming off an injury-plagued season on a team that looks like it gave up. I don’t think JAC is giving up a pick...but I do think Foles would be cheap to acquire.

 

I am fuzzy on the overall contract details...but from what I understand...the acquiring team would only pay his base salary...~$15M and then it’s non-gtd base salaries going forward. 

 

So if you traded JB...and save $9M...you are only paying $6M more to have Foles next year. Release Hoyer and that cuts it down to $3M. 

 

For $3M more in cap space...you can have Foles + rookie...instead of JB + Hoyer. And who knows...the pick they get back for JB is likely better than the one they gave up. I would take that setup.

 

(JB also has a roster bonus...and IF that can be traded...then I think the Colts actually save money in this scenario...which makes it a no-brainer).

 

It seems like a drastic move...to scrap the entire QB room...but it might be best (for everyone involved)...to have a fresh start.

 

And while Foles might seem like old hat to some (given the Reich connection)...I think it would invigorate some of the fans...and obviously he has a pretty good recent track record of being a positive influence in the QB room...so he would fill that mentor role as well. 

 

I have always wonder what this team would have looked like if Luck had retired in Feb...maybe Foles is already a Colt.

 

 

 

Pretty sure Foles would probably be the colts QB if Luck had retired after thr season. That would of been a no brainer. Eagles basically let him go so he could pick his own team. This would of been a easy choice for him. The issue would of been if ballard would of paid that much for him.

[Superman]

44 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

And the lack of spending...which was most prevalent in 2017 and 2018 (when the Colts were last in the league by a good margin in spending)...began before Leonard or Nelson were drafted. And then the much higher spending this past year...was mostly driven by extensions (one of which was very early) and spending $20M in cash on JB because Luck retired. Take away Moore and JB...and the Colts probably need to spend $90M+ in cash to satisfy the threshold. 

 

The roster was bad, though, and they had a likely lame duck coach running schemes that they weren't going to continue running moving forward. Then we went from 4-12 to 10-6 in 2018, so it's not like we were a contender on the brink and needed to add a couple of game changers. And realistically, I still think we're at least another good draft class away from having a promising roster.

 

I didn't think the team was ready. Then I think this year they added pieces that would solidify the team as a division champ with a chance to make noise in the playoffs. I think they viewed Funchess as a guy who would fit well with Luck. The defense probably still would have been middling, but with a chance to have some big games. But 2020 was the year to get ready for, JMO. Now, we need a QB. And they have to figure out how to build around whoever the QB will be. 

 

Ballard has probably been more frugal than I would like, but ultimately I agree with his approach. I think they held back in spending because they wanted to totally remake the roster, and it didn't make sense to spend big in FA to the detriment of developing the young guys.

 

I also take Irsay at his word when he says he gave Ballard clearance to spend as he sees, and maybe others don't. But Irsay has always been free with paying good players, so I don't think there's some unspoken reason for Ballard's frugality. I think he's just sticking to his principles.

[BProland85]

5 hours ago, MPStack said:

Might be a good time to sign a tier 1 FA or two. 

Chris Jones perhaps? Fills a huge need and is a player Ballard knows from KC. 

[richard pallo]

52 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

Dallas has spent to insane money over the years and what do they have to show for it? I mean, they have premiums at the RB, the Wr and the QB spots. The oline is a plus and they have a pretty solid group on the defensive side as well. They have as many SB appearances as we’ve had since 2012

I wouldn't call Dak a premium player at QB.   Jerry is going to pay him though. Against the Eagles he looked like JB 2.0.  It only takes one to fall in love and it's Jerry for the Cowboys.  

[Two_pound]

For those of you still wanting big money spent on free agents look at what the jest did last year and where did it get them? I know Mosely was hurt all year but he could have come to the Colts and been hurt all year also. I could see a scenario of bringing Foles in and both Brissett and Hoyer would be gone next year. Same with Carr or Dalton, my first choice for qb would be Dalton, he played really well in Cincinnati and that's not an easy task in that zoo of an environment. And remember we still have Chad Kelly on the roster.

[aReggie7]

9 minutes ago, Two_pound said:

For those of you still wanting big money spent on free agents look at what the jest did last year and where did it get them? I know Mosely was hurt all year but he could have come to the Colts and been hurt all year also. I could see a scenario of bringing Foles in and both Brissett and Hoyer would be gone next year. Same with Carr or Dalton, my first choice for qb would be Dalton, he played really well in Cincinnati and that's not an easy task in that zoo of an environment. And remember we still have Chad Kelly on the roster.

 

Thank you!

 

The Jets spent the most money in free agency and were number two the year before. Spending the money in free agency is not as obvious answer as so many make it out to be.

 

Also, look at the Rams. They have been aggressive in trades and free agency over the last few years. They had a great run last year. However, they now face a massive challenge in rebuilding their roster. They have so many needs but so little cap space (currently projected around $25 million for 2020) and no 1st round pick in 2020 or 2021 to use.

 

Some envy what the Raiders (Antonio Brown, Tyrell Williams), Cowboys (Amari Cooper), and Browns (Odell Beckham) have done over the last year. Despite getting a big time wide receiver all three of these teams have a similar record to the Colts. The Raiders just threw away a 3rd and 5th round pick for Brown...just totally wasted draft resources. So glad Ballard didn't go that direction last offseason.

[shasta519]

31 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

Chris Jones perhaps? Fills a huge need and is a player Ballard knows from KC. 

 

If KC lets him go...go for broke.

 

I also like Kendall Fuller as well. I wish they would have gone after Marcus Peters when he was available.

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, ar7 said:

 

Thank you!

 

The Jets spent the most money in free agency and were number two the year before. Spending the money in free agency is not as obvious answer as so many make it out to be.

 

Also, look at the Rams. They have been aggressive in trades and free agency over the last few years. They had a great run last year. However, they now face a massive challenge in rebuilding their roster. They have so many needs but so little cap space (currently projected around $25 million for 2020) and no 1st round pick in 2020 or 2021 to use.

 

Some envy what the Raiders (Antonio Brown, Tyrell Williams), Cowboys (Amari Cooper), and Browns (Odell Beckham) have done over the last year. Despite getting a big time wide receiver all three of these teams have a similar record to the Colts. The Raiders just threw away a 3rd and 5th round pick for Brown...just totally wasted draft resources. So glad Ballard didn't go that direction last offseason.

 

But they all ended up with the same results as the Colts. I think it’s fair to hope the Colts could make better use of impact talent.

[Pacergeek]

Ballard needs to both buy and draft top WR's and CB's 

[Coltscrazy]

My take is the draft is stacked with offense, and that it would make sense to target defense in FA.  Are there any defenders you like?  I don't see much, because the best FA are currently with strong teams, and have no incentive to move.  I'd love a shutdown corner and a 3tech DT.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

I wouldn't call Dak a premium player at QB.   Jerry is going to pay him though. Against the Eagles he looked like JB 2.0.  It only takes one to fall in love and it's Jerry for the Cowboys.  

I have seen people saying dak is slow and can’t get through his reads. I laughed because that is exactly what everyone says about JB. Dak just has slightly better weapons so looks  a little better.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

The roster was bad, though, and they had a likely lame duck coach running schemes that they weren't going to continue running moving forward. Then we went from 4-12 to 10-6 in 2018, so it's not like we were a contender on the brink and needed to add a couple of game changers. And realistically, I still think we're at least another good draft class away from having a promising roster.

 

I didn't think the team was ready. Then I think this year they added pieces that would solidify the team as a division champ with a chance to make noise in the playoffs. I think they viewed Funchess as a guy who would fit well with Luck. The defense probably still would have been middling, but with a chance to have some big games. But 2020 was the year to get ready for, JMO. Now, we need a QB. And they have to figure out how to build around whoever the QB will be. 

 

Ballard has probably been more frugal than I would like, but ultimately I agree with his approach. I think they held back in spending because they wanted to totally remake the roster, and it didn't make sense to spend big in FA to the detriment of developing the young guys.

 

I also take Irsay at his word when he says he gave Ballard clearance to spend as he sees, and maybe others don't. But Irsay has always been free with paying good players, so I don't think there's some unspoken reason for Ballard's frugality. I think he's just sticking to his principles.

This is exactly right. Ballard wanted to build a good foundation first before spending a ton in FA. I think a offensive draft this year and hopefully finding a QB it will be time to bring in a couple FA to add some playmakers. Once you have a good foundation you can add those missing pieces. Otherwise the house just crumbles. That is what is happening with the Rams right now. They tried to buy a SB and now they need to rebuild and they have no resources. They are going to have to tear that team apart to get some draft picks. Ballard will spend on guys that are difference makers. That would include a DE,DT, or maybe a shut down corner. 

[Jdubu]

5 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I wouldn't call Dak a premium player at QB.   Jerry is going to pay him though. Against the Eagles he looked like JB 2.0.  It only takes one to fall in love and it's Jerry for the Cowboys.  

One game? We could say that for games where Manning or Luck played a bad game against others as well. It does happen, the best have games in season that they look normal. I think Dak is very solid, has tons of tools to make it work. I’d take Dak over JB everyday. I won’t be paying 35+ million a yr for him but we will see where he ends up. 

[richard pallo]

5 minutes ago, Jdubu said:

One game? We could say that for games where Manning or Luck played a bad game against others as well. It does happen, the best have games in season that they look normal. I think Dak is very solid, has tons of tools to make it work. I’d take Dak over JB everyday. I won’t be paying 35+ million a yr for him but we will see where he ends up. 

He has a loaded offense and look at their record.  And in their biggest game he couldn't deliver.  There are many QB's I would take over JB.  That wouldn't be hard to do.  He's an NFL QB.  Just like JB.  Nothing really special about him.  But Jerry will pay him.  Better him than us. 

[Jdubu]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

He has a loaded offense and look at their record.  And in their biggest game he couldn't deliver.  There are many QB's I would take over JB.  That wouldn't be hard to do.  He's an NFL QB.  Just like JB.  Nothing really special about him.  But Jerry will pay him.  Better him than us. 

I don’t think I said I’d want Dak, especially at the price he will likely get. I did say, I would take Dak over JB and for sure if the cost was the same. 
 

do you recall the stretch near the mid part of the season where the cowboys were tearing it up and Dak was super flashing? All the tv peeps were just gushing over Dak and saying you gonna get that 40 mil young man. Haven’t been hearing that as much lately. It’s hard to tell where his value is going to land. 

[MPStack]

https://www.espn.com/blog/indianapolis-colts/post/_/id/25191/colts-face-interesting-offseason-calls-on-brissett-ebron-castonzo

[WarGhost21]

I think one of the big reasons that the common fan will be wanting to spend big and think we have a ton of space comes from the retirement of Andrew. Everyone who isnt really big into the numbers and stuff will think that we now have a whole ton more to spend, and thus it gives the the desire to spend that which we don’t really have

[LockeDown]

Ballard usually “tells” you what his intentions are in the draft. Can’t wait to hear his analysis and vision for 2020.

[aReggie7]

2 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Ballard usually “tells” you what his intentions are in the draft. Can’t wait to hear his analysis and vision for 2020.

 

Agreed.

 

Lots of interesting possibilities for the Colts given their needs, the picks they have, and the prospects in this draft.

 

The combination of wide receivers and quarterbacks could push a strong defensive player to the Colts in the first or at the start of the second round. (in a scenario where the Colts pass on the quarterbacks in this draft)

 

Also, I think given the Colts need and the depth I think we could see the Colts draft two wide receivers before round 5.

[Myles]

On 12/24/2019 at 7:41 PM, Chloe6124 said:

I have seen people saying dak is slow and can’t get through his reads. I laughed because that is exactly what everyone says about JB. Dak just has slightly better weapons so looks  a little better.

Dak isn't elite, but he is much better than Brissett.  

 

I'd be in favor of Foles.  

[ColtJax]

Foles would be interesting because of his past relationship with our HC, but the Jags would have to eat a lot of cap money since the guaranteed portion would fall on them right away, and they don't have the room.

IMO trying to built your team though FA leads to issues (See the Redskins almost every year under Snyder), but to pick up a needed player or two and build the rest though the draft would be fine. We seem to be getting plan B and C FA's and adding in the draft, a few "A" FA's to go along with our great drafts will be great..

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

21 hours ago, LockeDown said:

Ballard usually “tells” you what his intentions are in the draft. Can’t wait to hear his analysis and vision for 2020.

He should be sitting down for a press conference Tuesday. He is pretty honest so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

He should be sitting down for a press conference Tuesday. He is pretty honest so it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.

That said I can't imagine him saying anything that would tip his hand on what his plans are on the QB situation. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That said I can't imagine him saying anything that would tip his hand on what his plans are on the QB situation. 

Yeah no way will he give any indication on what he plans on doing there.  

[BleedBlu8792]

3 hours ago, Myles said:

Dak isn't elite, but he is much better than Brissett.  

 

I'd be in favor of Foles.  

 

Foles isn't happening. The earliest Jax could get out from him is after 2020, and they still would take a 12.5M dead cap hit. 

[Myles]

Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Foles isn't happening. The earliest Jax could get out from him is after 2020, and they still would take a 12.5M dead cap hit. 

I don't think it will happen either, but if Ballard made it happen, I'd be fine with that.  

[MPStack]

Just now, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Foles isn't happening. The earliest Jax could get out from him is after 2020, and they still would take a 12.5M dead cap hit. 

I don’t see any veteran QB being traded for with a big salary. You’re talking one awkward training camp! 

[ColtJax]

It's not his salary, it's his guaranteed money. If traded it becomes a signing bonus and that gets hit on Jacksonville the day he's traded. The Jags are up against the cap now, they couldn't afford a 30 million plus cap hit..