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Rapport: Colts expected to be in QB Market after talks with irsay


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There’s literally no QB in this draft worth trading for. Really isn’t. It’s a weak QB class

Gross dude

I guess sometimes the fans aren’t all that stupid. 

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44 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

yeah I think he gets fired after the season. I was wrong about the Chargers too. I thought they would win 10 games easily.

Me too honestly thought the afc west and south would get 2 teams in the playoffs. The Bills came out of nowhere lmao

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4 hours ago, runthepost said:

What’s the thought on Mahomes and his pure talent? You think if KC took Watson and Houston got Mahomes, would he be a different QB? @2006Coltsbestever @Superman @PeterBowman

Success at QB seems to be a coach / quarterback partnership. Bill Walsh / Joe Montana, Bill Belichick / Tom Brady, Tony Dungy / Peyton Manning, Sean Peyton / Drew Brees. If that team doesn't work, QB performance suffers.

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7 hours ago, Superman said:

 

First two rings (arguably, three), Brady was an average to above average QB on a great team with an awesome coaching staff. He also was able to make some plays here and there, but he was not a top notch QB. It wasn't until 2004 or 2005 that Brady really became Brady. 

BB had only one winning season in 5 years in Cleveland.  He took over a NE team that hadn't had a losing season in 5 years, but went 5-11 his first year.  He lost his first game his second season and was losing the 2nd game when when the Jets Mo Lewis changed NFL history by seriously injuring Drew Bledsoe.

 

BB is the best defensive coordinator in NFL history, and one of the best GM's.  But if Bledsoe didn't get hurt, BB's HC career may have been really short.

 

Tom Brady is the GOAT.

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11 hours ago, CoachLite said:

Success at QB seems to be a coach / quarterback partnership. Bill Walsh / Joe Montana, Bill Belichick / Tom Brady, Tony Dungy / Peyton Manning, Sean Peyton / Drew Brees. If that team doesn't work, QB performance suffers.

Here's an article that describes what I mean https://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/45979/mutual-respect-mike-holmgrens-guide-to-coaching-elite-qbs .

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The three things that concern me with JB:

 

Seeing the whole field

Accuracy
Poise

 

   I used to think these traits were strictly instinctual and you either have them or you don’t. But check out the first 2 years on some of these QBs. Their completion % did increase.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

 

   As far as poise and seeing the whole field, we’ll have to wait and see. I’m guessing Reich and Ballard think these things will come with experience or they are just being coercive, in their public responses.

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11 hours ago, ColtsFaninUtah said:

BB had only one winning season in 5 years in Cleveland.  He took over a NE team that hadn't had a losing season in 5 years, but went 5-11 his first year.  He lost his first game his second season and was losing the 2nd game when when the Jets Mo Lewis changed NFL history by seriously injuring Drew Bledsoe.

 

BB is the best defensive coordinator in NFL history, and one of the best GM's.  But if Bledsoe didn't get hurt, BB's HC career may have been really short.

 

Tom Brady is the GOAT.

 

That's incredibly revisionist. And it pretends that the Brady/Belichick success hasn't been symbiotic.

 

Either way, the point is that Tom Brady wasn't carrying the Patriots to championships in the early years. 

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1 hour ago, coltsfeva said:

The three things that concern me with JB:

 

Seeing the whole field

Accuracy
Poise

 

   I used to think these traits were strictly instinctual and you either have them or you don’t. But check out the first 2 years on some of these QBs. Their completion % did increase.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

 

   As far as poise and seeing the whole field, we’ll have to wait and see. I’m guessing Reich and Ballard think these things will come with experience or they are just being coercive, in their public responses.

Things I mutter to myself watching JB... "He can't see the field" ie. he's not clued into the how's and why's of the opposing D, he locks onto the first read and fires a fastball high and away or a knuckle ball at people's feet. I think they (the Colts) need to start blaming his knee,  because if this is just who he is and they want to do this again next year? They'll likely trot out the excuses when the season is over and expect the fans to be all in on more of this.

 

I don't want to post this every day, but when I start thinking about this I can't help but think the team is stuck in neutral and there's no obvious way out.

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JB is a very good back up that's asked to start. It's like Fitz magic, it works for a few weeks here and there, but over the long haul it falls apart. JB is a 8-8 type of QB, not bad enough to cut but not good enough to lead us to a championship. Bears, Vikings, Colts, Bengals, Bucs, Dolphins, Chargers (Now), Steelers (Now) and the Panthers could all switch QB's and have the same results.

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3 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

The three things that concern me with JB:

 

Seeing the whole field

Accuracy
Poise

 

   I used to think these traits were strictly instinctual and you either have them or you don’t. But check out the first 2 years on some of these QBs. Their completion % did increase.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career.htm

 

   As far as poise and seeing the whole field, we’ll have to wait and see. I’m guessing Reich and Ballard think these things will come with experience or they are just being coercive, in their public responses.

 

Completion percentage is a symptom, one that can lead back to various causes. For some young QBs, it's just speed of the game, which can lead to a lot of fundamental lapses that can be corrected. For others, it's more about their grasp of the game and/or ability to see, anticipate and deliver effectively. 

 

It should not be assumed that one young QB's issues leading to a low completion percentage are the same as another QB's. And in no case should it be assumed that, since another QB was able to fix his issues that any other QB can/will get better. For instance, it's possible to become a more poised QB, but I don't think that's a teachable or transferable trait, which makes it impossible to predict whether a player will become more poised. 

 

Also, there are some players who improve their overall completion percentage, but still crumble on third down, or against good defenses, or in the 4th quarter. I think I saw a stat a couple weeks ago breaking down Jared Goff's critical situation stats, and they were pretty concerning.

 

So I think the Colts staff is going to continue to work with JB, because he's their QB, but I doubt they're content with him at the position. 

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If the owner(Irsay)according to the media is interested in a new QB especially in the draft so be it...It's obvious from all the recent post that JB is not the QB for this team moving forward.  I totally agree as 90 + percent of the fans have also echoed this sentiment.  No need to beat a dead horse regarding JB's performance, the whole football nation already know JBs MO.

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If there is one thing we know about Ballard is that he will not overpay for a player. I could see him giving JB that new contract at the beginning of the year but my guess is he is now thinking that his 2nd year amount is now too high based on his performance this year.  Fortunately it was for only two years and he could cut and move on from JB without a whole lot of pain.  I think they are going to realize that JB is a solid number 2 and his current salary doesn't warrant that kind of money.  It's hard for me to see Ballard overpaying like that.  That's what makes me think they will try to find a way to move on from JB and that contract.  Maybe they try to get a guy like Carr or maybe they draft a QB.  No one knows what path will open up but paying JB 15m or so doesn't seem like a figure Ballard would be comfortable with.  To me this is the year to find our next franchise QB not next year.  JB's compensation is another reason that might make this happen sooner rather than later. 

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19 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Flacco to me had GM years, an non GM years. At what YPYear is a guy not a GM? For me, if you're consistently above 3500 a year in the reg season, you're really not a GM. Flacco had 7 years above 3500, and one of those he had 4300. 4300 is definitely not GM... That was top well in the top 10 that year, and that's the year we almost had 3 top 5000.

 

I definitely don't agree with that idea that yardage alone determines whether a guy is a GM or not. And if I did, the threshold would not be 3,500, not in this era. Flacco has played his entire career during the passing renaissance, in a time when guys like Blake Bortles, Eli Manning, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, etc., have 4,000 yard passing seasons (some have multiple). Good QBs do 4,000 in their sleep. Flacco did it once, in 9 full seasons.

 

And conversely, Russell Wilson has only done it twice, going on a third this year, in eight seasons. I think total yardage is a factor to consider, but it's not conclusive.

 

I do agree that Flacco should be considered carefully, year by year. But I think the major factor with him was his ability to make big plays downfield. That's not typical of a "game manager" QB. But he typically had low efficiency, low passer rating, low TD %, low usage (compared to franchise guys, especially), wasn't particularly reliable in the clutch, etc. 

 

He's an interesting case, but I'd have him closer to a GM than a franchise QB. 

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Just now, richard pallo said:

If there is one thing we know about Ballard is that he will not overpay for a player. I could see him giving JB that new contract at the beginning of the year but my guess is he is now thinking that his 2nd year amount is now too high based on his performance this year.  Fortunately it was for only two years and he could cut and move on from JB without a whole lot of pain.  I think they are going to realize that JB is a solid number 2 and his current salary doesn't warrant that kind of money.  It's hard for me to see Ballard overpaying like that.  That's what makes me think they will try to find a way to move on from JB and that contract.  Maybe they try to get a guy like Carr or maybe they draft a QB.  No one knows what path will open up but paying JB 15m or so doesn't seem like a figure Ballard would be comfortable with.  To me this is the year to find our next franchise QB not next year.  JB's compensation is another reason that might make this happen sooner rather than later. 


Like @Superman mentioned in another thread, at the time, the contract extension was good, but that was if Brissett played well this season. If, JB had of played well in 2019 the Colts had control for at least another year.

 

However, the CAP hit for 2020 looks bad now IMO, but it doesn’t really hamstring the Colts. I do believe his CAP hit is playing into sticking with playing JB the last two games. They could, but probably won’t cut him and save 9m in CAP. 

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Just so everyone can see what everyone in the national media are thinking about the Colts. 
 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-power-rankings-steelers-have-a-qb-puzzle-to-solve-and-that-goes-for-2020-and-beyond-044828077.html


Yahoo Sports? Lol Amateur sports writers!

 

If he thinks the knee is an issue, then why is Jacoby playing in two meaningless games? 
 

 

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5 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

"Playing very well before being injured". This tells me that that person does not actually watch games 

Wording is everything. If he had said playing above average that would've sounded better/made more sense. In those first 7 games he did have 2 300 Yard passing games and his TD to INT ratio was 14 to 3, we were also 5-2. Was he playing good, I wouldn't go that far with it but he was average at worse when factoring in every game in those first 7.

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15 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

"Playing very well before being injured". This tells me that that person does not actually watch games 

 

i bet a high % of writers and analysts have not sat and watched a colts game all season.  they look at highlights and stats and then go right back to talking about the nfc east 

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2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

i bet a high % of writers and analysts have not sat and watched a colts game all season.  they look at highlights and stats and then go right back to talking about the nfc east 

Yeah the Dallas Cowboys could be 0-15 and they would still spend an hour talking about them.

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2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I definitely don't agree with that idea that yardage alone determines whether a guy is a GM or not. And if I did, the threshold would not be 3,500, not in this era. Flacco has played his entire career during the passing renaissance, in a time when guys like Blake Bortles, Eli Manning, Andy Dalton, Ryan Tannehill, etc., have 4,000 yard passing seasons (some have multiple). Good QBs do 4,000 in their sleep. Flacco did it once, in 9 full seasons.

 

And conversely, Russell Wilson has only done it twice, going on a third this year, in eight seasons. I think total yardage is a factor to consider, but it's not conclusive.

 

I do agree that Flacco should be considered carefully, year by year. But I think the major factor with him was his ability to make big plays downfield. That's not typical of a "game manager" QB. But he typically had low efficiency, low passer rating, low TD %, low usage (compared to franchise guys, especially), wasn't particularly reliable in the clutch, etc. 

 

He's an interesting case, but I'd have him closer to a GM than a franchise QB. 

I agree yardage isn't the only factor but IMO it's probably the biggest. Flacco I guess is a tweener lol .  Some games and some years you could make a case.for either. I'd also point out that one reason his yards.are lower than renaissance guys is simply because with that D the O stayed conservative from a.play calling perspective. 

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29 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I think everyone is possibly reading this wrong.


I think Irsay is saying, “listen Luck ain’t coming back, Jacoby is our guy and we are gonna look to the draft to build around him.”

That is basically what he said. But in his defense the organization has no idea of what their options will be in the draft. They can have guys they are targeting but who knows if they will be there when we draft or somebody might move up and get the one we want. I have faith that ballard is going to be looking to upgrade. Ballard isn’t stupid or blind. But that doesn’t mean any of these guys will be there or Ballard thinks they are worth a first round pick.

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19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am in the minority here but I still give Andrew a 50/50 shot at coming back. He would've had his feel at playing Mr Mom - being there for his daughter, spending a lot of time with his wife, and a year off to get healthy. If not we just take Jordan Love in round 1 and roll from there. 

It sounds like Irsay has already had conversations with Luck. 

 

Also everyone going we just need to go get this guy or that guy. It’s not that simple. It’s not like they can just go get the guy they want. If they want to move up there has to be a trade partner. If they don’t they have to be lucky no one picks before us. Then there is the interviews and workouts. Who knows how any of these kids will do in those.  

 

I heard a rumor chargers and bucs are already trying to move up to get a QB.

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23 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It sounds like Irsay has already had conversations with Luck. 

 

Also everyone going we just need to go get this guy or that guy. It’s not that simple. It’s not like they can just go get the guy they want. If they want to move up there has to be a trade partner. If they don’t they have to be lucky no one picks before us. Then there is the interviews and workouts. Who knows how any of these kids will do in those.  

 

I heard a rumor chargers and bucs are already trying to move up to get a QB.

Nothing is a given. I am already on record numerous times saying I do not trust any QB coming out this season. I do think Jordan Love can be drafted by us if we go that route. He will be there at pick 16 or 17 IMO. Regarding JB, I do like him as well, and I also think there is a chance Luck could come back. In Ballard I trust.

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29 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I think we could end up in a situation like Dak Prescott and Dallas. Jerry Jones clearly loves him some Dak. I think Jim clearly loves him some Jacoby. 
 

Time will tell but I think we build around Jacoby for another year and see what happens. 

 

I don’t know how you got that impression, that Jim “loves him some Jacoby.”

 

I mean, sure, I think JB will probably be our starter next year, even if we draft a QB. But I have serious doubts that our FO/Irsay is in love with the idea of JB being the long term QB1.

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8 hours ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

I don’t know how you got that impression, that Jim “loves him some Jacoby.”

 

I mean, sure, I think JB will probably be our starter next year, even if we draft a QB. But I have serious doubts that our FO/Irsay is in love with the idea of JB being the long term QB1.

I may have misspoken. What I meant is he loves how Jacoby has handled this situation and how he continues to lead by example. I think he respects his leadership. 

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For me it's : Ballard I trust. He has an eye for talent and he has the smarts to strategize a deal.

If QB is part of our 2020 draft than he saw the possibilities and potential. The other factor that is often overlooked is that Ballard builds consensus between the scouts and coaches regarding all his picks.

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On 12/22/2019 at 6:26 AM, 2006Coltsbestever said:

50/50 Andrew comes back IMO. It is a guess but playing Mr Mom for a while gets old. He is probably 100% healthy as well. Also he has to miss the game, he played it his whole life. The organization loves him too. The players on the team would welcome him back easily. TY would probably feel like a kid in a candy store.

 

I somewhat wonder if part of the reason Andrew retired was not only due to his health, but to the way the organization treated him.  Obviously, many of us have heard horror stories about Grigson (Pat McAfee helped make them famous), but if I'm Andrew and have suffered a lacerated kidney, multiple concussions, and am still not seeing my OL improve I'd be pretty upset.  Then with the shoulder injury, I have to go to a foreign country to see my own specialist because what the team doctors are telling me isn't helping my pain subside, isn't helping my throwing motion get better, isn't improving arm strength, etc... and my own specialist fixes my shoulder (granted it took a long, excruciating process), I'd be a bit questionable about what the Colts organization really thinks of me.

 

Then, I get what team doctors tell me is a mild calf strain and it isn't healing after almost 9 months (an injury which should heal on a pro athlete my age in a few weeks), and I have a specialist look at it and found out it was misdiagnosed, instead I have a potentially very serious ankle injury involving my bones and which could potentially lead to a torn achilles, etc.

 

Frankly, I'd have a hard time trusting the organization after what Andrew went through in his first ~5 years here.  In a ddition to misdiagnosed injuries, the way the media and organization handled Luck's health issues with the public had to be pretty frustrating (possibly culminating with the owner suggesting Luck's injuries were 'all in his head').  

 

I doubt Luck will come back to the NFL.  If he does, I'd hope it'd be with the Colts.  However, I could very well see a scenario where Luck thinks he has been wronged by the organization and if he came back, he'd come back in a different uniform.

 

On 12/22/2019 at 7:05 AM, Chloe6124 said:

That tells me that irsay is probably going to demand ballard draft a QB. I would rather draft our future then going after a FA.

 

TBH, I hope not.  I'm not convinced there are any QBs in this draft who could come in and take Jacoby's job from day 1.  I'm not even convinced any QBs in this draft are bonafide franchise QBs.  We have plenty of other needs to address on this team, and I (for one) will be disappointed if we start forcing picks looking for our next franchise QB if the GM/FO/Coaching Staff don't think there's the exact right guy in this draft to fit that role.

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Just now, Dingus McGirt said:

Eason declared for the draft.  Thoughts?

Good. More options both for us and for other teams ahead of us. If we trust Ballard we need to trust that he will get in position to draft whoever he likes and Eason declaring probably is good news on several fronts in that respect. 

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Good. More options both for us and for other teams ahead of us. If we trust Ballard we need to trust that he will get in position to draft whoever he likes and Eason declaring probably is good news on several fronts in that respect. 


I wouldn’t be shocked if Eason goes in the 1st either! 

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