Rapport: Colts expected to be in QB Market after talks with irsay

[runthepost]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And he's still the GOAT, and has had a better career than all of those guys.

 

22 minutes ago, Myles said:

I would put Tom somewhere around 4th-6th best that I have seen in my life.

Behind

Marino

Manning

Montana

Young

 

 

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

yeah almost every list I have ever seen by the media that covers football has,

1. Tom

2. Montana

3. Peyton 

Some do have Unitas in the top 3.

Where does Brees rank if he wins the super bowl this year?

[Superman]

Just now, runthepost said:

 

 

Where does Brees rank if he wins the super bowl this year?

 

About the same place he ranks right now, IMO. I am stubbornly resistant to judging QBs on the basis of SB wins.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, runthepost said:

 

 

Where does Brees rank if he wins the super bowl this year?

That is a great question, he would have 2 SB wins like Peyton has, both have similar stats but Peyton has won 5 League MVP's, Brees has none. Brees belongs in the top 10 ever IMO.

[TheMiz]

37 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Not picking on you but I totally don’t get why people think Tom Brady is a game manager. He just passed Peyton Manning in TDs and I also believe yards or he is really close. Brady, Manning and Brees are all prolific passers that showed text book execution of take what the defense gives you and maximize. Brady also had great defenses making the perfect storm that won 6 championships. 

Had you scrolled down a couple comments, I specified that mentioning Brady was being facetious...as much as it hurts to say, that Brady guy is pretty ok at playing QB 

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

About the same place he ranks right now, IMO. I am stubbornly resistant to judging QBs on the basis of SB wins.

I agree with this pretty much, I think winning a 2nd SB is special because not many of done it but my opinion of Brees won't sway much in saying he is probably between 8-10 all-time. Rodgers may actually be a hair better by my eye test.

[Coffeedrinker]

On 12/22/2019 at 6:59 AM, #12. said:

"Going into the offeason, we have to proceed as if Andrew is officially retired," owner Jim Irsay told NFL.com recently. "So that's how we operate now".

 

 

 

That's a pretty interesting quote.  One thing is certain, if he wants to play, they would welcome him back and Luck would have his job back in a second.

There was not anything in that article that would suggest the Colts would welcome Luck back with open arms or otherwise.  The tone of the article was more, Luck made his decision and we(the Colts) are moving on.

[AwesomeAustin]

37 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tom doesn't get the credit from some because he has had Belichick as coach. Tom is arguably the GOAT, many in the media think he is. It is always in the back of my head though how much he and his team has cheated.

Totally fair and valid thoughts for all of those. I think they cheated a lot and the public would be shocked how much all teams probably cheat.

[Coltsman1788]

41 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tom doesn't get the credit from some because he has had Belichick as coach. Tom is arguably the GOAT, many in the media think he is. It is always in the back of my head though how much he and his team has cheated.

It’s in the front of mine.  So he isn’t the G.O.A.T. to me but I will acknowledge that he is the “Most Accomplished”.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Coltsman1788 said:

It’s in the front of mine.  So he isn’t the G.O.A.T. to me but I will acknowledge that he is the Most Accomplished.  

Yeah it is just something we don't know to be 100% true. I think they have cheated over the years too but thinking and knowing 100% wise are 2 different things.

[AwesomeAustin]

8 minutes ago, TheMiz said:

Had you scrolled down a couple comments, I specified that mentioning Brady was being facetious...as much as it hurts to say, that Brady guy is pretty ok at playing QB 

Right on.  Wish I had scrolled more.  After Manning left I developed a great appreciation for Brady and the Pats.  One of the greatest players and dynasties ever and really has been fun to watch from a pure football viewpoint. Manning vs Brady was the best and we witnessed some terrific games. 

[Coltsman1788]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah it is just something we don't know to be 100% true. I think they have cheated over the years too but thinking and knowing 100% wise are 2 different things.

We know they did...it’s just impossible to know the extent since the NFL conspired to destroy a lot of the video evidence from Spygate. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Coltsman1788 said:

We know they did...it’s just impossible to know the extent since the NFL conspired to destroy a lot of the video evidence from Spygate. 

yeah that is what I mean, Spygate was proven but a lot of the other stuff hasn't been. Tom swears he knew nothing about Deflategate, BB swears he knew nothing about this last incident. I think they did but we don't know that to be 100% true.

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

There was not anything in that article that would suggest the Colts would welcome Luck back with open arms or otherwise.  The tone of the article was more, Luck made his decision and we(the Colts) are moving on.

 

There's a lot of editorializing with that article, right? I didn't find it remotely informative, just Irsay saying 'Luck's still retired, we're still playing football.' A lot of conclusions being drawn on a whole lot of nothing here.

[Coltsman1788]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

yeah that is what I mean, Spygate was proven but a lot of the other stuff hasn't been. Tom swears he knew nothing about Deflategate, BB swears he knew nothing about this last incident. I think they did but we don't know that to be 100% true.

Well the NFL won in court over Brady in Deflategate so whether Brady admits it or not...in the eyes of the public he was found guilty and punished for it.  But I get what your saying more so in relation to the latest allegations.  Point is there has always been scandals of this nature associated with the Pats and that tarnishes their legacy and is why Tom Brady is not the GOAT in my opinion.  He just has the most rings.  To me...being the GOAT implies a certain level of integrity to their career that I don’t think Tom Brady has. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

There's a lot of editorializing with that article, right? I didn't find it remotely informative, just Irsay saying 'Luck's still retired, we're still playing football.' A lot of conclusions being drawn on a whole lot of nothing here.

True, we all are just intrigued that Luck and Irsay still talk a lot, or do they? I think they do at least once a week but I am guessing now.

[PeterBowman]

48 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

First two rings (arguably, three), Brady was an average to above average QB on a great team with an awesome coaching staff. He also was able to make some plays here and there, but he was not a top notch QB. It wasn't until 2004 or 2005 that Brady really became Brady. 

i was just about to say this.....and the one thing Brady has had the benefit of is that he rarely HAD to be "the guy". He almost always had an elite o-line, solid running game, and defense...plus one the greatest head coaches ever. Those first few seasons he was the epitome of game manager. However, when his O-line wasn't top notch, he's struggled quite a bit. 

[Superman]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

True, we all are just intrigued that Luck and Irsay still talk a lot, or do they? I think they do at least once a week but I am guessing now.

 

I don't know, but I think the article stated that Luck's teammates have met his daughter (or some of them have), and we saw a photo of him at the facility a couple months ago, so it's not like he's vanished off the face of the earth. He's just living his life.

 

I accepted Luck's retirement pretty quickly. Part of it was me not wanting to torture myself with the remote possibility that he would come back, but realistically examining the situation, I think he views playing in the NFL as hazardous to his wellbeing, and decided he wouldn't do it anymore. There's a bunch of speculation and conjecture that influences my thinking on this, and none of it is based on established fact, but me piecing things together convinced me that he had some serious struggles and will never come back. I'm still disappointed, even sad, but as it relates to the Colts and their future/strategy, I'm over it. Irsay might not be, but I'm pretty sure Ballard is.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Well the NFL won in court over Brady in Deflategate so whether Brady admits it or not...in the eyes of the public he was found guilty and punished for it.  But I get what your saying more so in relation to the latest allegations.  Point is there has always been scandals of this nature associated with the Pats and that tarnishes their legacy and is why Tom Brady is not the GOAT in my opinion.  He just has the most rings.  To me...being the GOAT implies a certain level of integrity to their career that I don’t think Tom Brady has. 

I think on pure talent alone Dan Marino was better but in real game time action Tom is just clutch. One reason why I take Magic over LeBron, Magic just knew how to win more when it counted. That is special. Overall LeBron is the better athlete. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know, but I think the article stated that Luck's teammates have met his daughter (or some of them have), and we saw a photo of him at the facility a couple months ago, so it's not like he's vanished off the face of the earth. He's just living his life.

 

I accepted Luck's retirement pretty quickly. Part of it was me not wanting to torture myself with the remote possibility that he would come back, but realistically examining the situation, I think he views playing in the NFL as hazardous to his wellbeing, and decided he wouldn't do it anymore. There's a bunch of speculation and conjecture that influences my thinking on this, and none of it is based on established fact, but me piecing things together convinced me that he had some serious struggles and will never come back. I'm still disappointed, even sad, but as it relates to the Colts and their future/strategy, I'm over it. Irsay might not be, but I'm pretty sure Ballard is.

I am still torturing myself  and I even like JB. Luck was a top 5 QB in the league coming in this year though IMO

[Coffeedrinker]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

True, we all are just intrigued that Luck and Irsay still talk a lot, or do they? I think they do at least once a week but I am guessing now.

Where has anything been written or discussed that states Irsay and Luck still talk a lot?  There was a mention of him visiting the facility in October and that his former teammates have met his daughter.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Coffeedrinker said:

Where has anything been written or discussed that states Irsay and Luck still talk a lot?  There was a mention of him visiting the facility in October and that his former teammates have met his daughter.

It's just a guess. Irsay loved Luck so it is just an assumption on my part. 

[runthepost]

What’s the thought on Mahomes and his pure talent? You think if KC took Watson and Houston got Mahomes, would he be a different QB? @2006Coltsbestever @Superman @PeterBowman

[AwesomeAustin]

I was curious and looked up JBs stats.  I can see why he is so polarizing.  7 games he has thrown under 200Yds and 6 times he has thrown 0 touchdowns. I can see where someone could say that is not franchise QB material.  I can also understand the argument he is virtually a 2nd year player and this is his first year with game time in this scheme. The real question is how much room for improvement is there before he reaches his ceiling?  He definitely is not a gunslinger and like many can struggle reading defenses and blitzes. Unless we could see his chalkboard work it’s impossible to tell.  The coaches see something in JB and maybe the can groom him.  It’s not like he is terrible, if we drafted him and this was his 2nd year we would be predicting him to break out the next couple years. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, runthepost said:

What’s the thought on Mahomes and his pure talent? You think if KC took Watson and Houston got Mahomes, would he be a different QB? @2006Coltsbestever @Superman @PeterBowman

I like Watson but I think Mahomes is better talent wise. I think Mahomes having Hopkins would be scary. To me Watson is good but wasn't better than Luck, Mahomes is = to Luck IMO.

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, runthepost said:

What’s the thought on Mahomes and his pure talent? You think if KC took Watson and Houston got Mahomes, would he be a different QB? @2006Coltsbestever @Superman @PeterBowman

 

I think Andy Reid is a near genius, and the Chiefs have great weapons, so I give the staff a lot of credit for identifying, nurturing and developing Mahomes so far. He's very talented, but he's in a very good situation.

 

I wonder what Watson would look like with the Chiefs. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think Andy Reid is a near genius, and the Chiefs have great weapons, so I give the staff a lot of credit for identifying, nurturing and developing Mahomes so far. He's very talented, but he's in a very good situation.

 

I wonder what Watson would look like with the Chiefs. 

Watson would be good IMO but he isn't the talent Mahomes is, that is my opinion. Before Luck retired I had Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, and Luck as the 4 guys I would start a franchise with before the season started. I didn't include Brady or Brees because they are older.

[2006Coltsbestever]

@Superman, credit to you for predicting Baltimore would be a beast before the season started. I was on the Browns train like a fool . Sometimes I am even wrong  . I won my fantasy league because of Lamar. 

[EastStreet]

15 hours ago, Four2itus said:

Thanks for answering my question. 1 SB win by a game manager, and 1 SB win by an elite (?) QB. Colts have 1 SB win by an elite QB, and one play away from a SB by a game manager. Well golly, sure does explain the reason why nearly everyone is on board the "Get a new QB train". I mean....with the disparity in those numbers...who could argue?

If you want to limit your "view" to that situation, instead of looking at every SB team for the last XX years, by all means, be blind, and carry on....

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

If you want to limit your "view" to that situation, instead of looking at every SB team for the last XX years, by all means, be blind, and carry on....

I would prefer an Elite QB but he does have a point I hate to say it. In reality Peyton should have 3 SB wins here but he doesn't. We had no business losing in 2005 or 2009.

[EastStreet]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

He was incredibly productive in the playoffs, and was one of the best deep ball throwers (by the numbers) in the NFL. He showed the ability to take his game to another level in the postseason, and the team would not have won without him making big plays. (They also got some help from Rahim Moore blowing a coverage on a near-hail mary situation.)

 

Flacco was absolutely a game manager, but that postseason, he was able to make plays when the team needed them. Which is generally the way it goes with SB teams. Even if the QB isn't the main difference maker, there will be a few times every game where the QB has to make a play, usually in the passing game (duh, he's the QB). Flacco did.

Flacco to me had GM years, an non GM years. At what YPYear is a guy not a GM? For me, if you're consistently above 3500 a year in the reg season, you're really not a GM. Flacco had 7 years above 3500, and one of those he had 4300. 4300 is definitely not GM... That was top well in the top 10 that year, and that's the year we almost had 3 top 5000.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would prefer an Elite QB but he does have a point I hate to say it. In reality Peyton should have 3 SB wins here but he doesn't. We had no business losing in 2005 or 2009.

What, that only one GM QB won a SB in the last 10 or so years? And that even he is arguably not a GM (he had incredible stats that year, also eclipsed 3500 7 years). 

 

So you want to spend years building a championship D, leave the QB as is, wait for the planets to align, and after that......... still have 1 in 10 chances once you build that perfect D plus need your QB to average around 300 yards and 3 TD in the playoffs vs other good Ds, and teams likely with a lot better O.

 

10-4

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Flacco to me had GM years, an non GM years. At what YPYear is a guy not a GM? For me, if you're consistently above 3500 a year in the reg season, you're really not a GM. Flacco had 7 years above 3500, and one of those he had 4300. 4300 is definitely not GM... That was top well in the top 10 that year, and that's the year we almost had 3 top 5000.

The year Foles beat Brady was the most shocking to me. I didn't see that coming at all. I am not sure anyone did after Wentz went out. Not only that he beat Brady in a shootout  

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

What, that only one GM QB won a SB in the last 10 or so years? And that even he is arguably not a GM (he had incredible stats that year, also eclipsed 3500 7 years). 

 

So you want to spend years building a championship D, leave the QB as is, wait for the planets to align, and after that......... still have 1 in 10 chances once you build that perfect D plus need your QB to average around 300 yards and 3 TD in the playoffs vs other good Ds, and teams likely with a lot better O.

 

10-4

Peyton was a GM in 2015 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Peyton was a GM in 2015 

He certainly wasn't planned to be, and that's not what the team tried to do. 

The year or two before, he set single season records...

 

And, if you want a GM, Peyton has the IQ to be about the best GM there is.

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He certainly wasn't planned to be, and that's not what the team tried to do. 

The year or two before, he set single season records...

 

And, if you want a GM, Peyton has the IQ to be about the best GM there is.

I do agree with that. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Here is a question for the forum: Hypothetically what if JB threw for only 200 yards a game on average next year, only 30 TD's but just 7 INT's and we went 11-5. Would you guys be happy? I would, 11-5 is a hell of a year.

[esmort]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a question for the forum: Hypothetically what if JB threw for only 200 yards a game on average next year, only 30 TD's but just 7 INT's and we went 11-5. Would you guys be happy? I would, 11-5 is a hell of a year.

 

Not enough info and can we be happy with the team and still disappointed in JB ... how did JB look in those games, how did we win the games, does the team look like it can actually compete in the post season.  You have almost a singular focus on just W/Ls ... got to have context.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Not enough info and can we be happy with the team and still disappointed in JB ... how did JB look in those games, how did we win the games, does the team look like it can actually compete in the post season.  You have almost a singular focus on just W/Ls ... got to have context.

It's ok being critical of JB but I think it is safe to say 90% of people in here would be happy if we finished 11-5. I put a lot on wins/losses but that is the name of the game. This season when JB has started and finished a game his team is 7-6 which is above average.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

@Superman, credit to you for predicting Baltimore would be a beast before the season started. I was on the Browns train like a fool . Sometimes I am even wrong  . I won my fantasy league because of Lamar. 

 

Right about the Ravens and Browns, very wrong about the Chargers. 

 

Freddie Kitchens is a big problem for Cleveland. 

[esmort]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It's ok being critical of JB but I think it is safe to say 90% of people in here would be happy if we finished 11-5. I put a lot on wins/losses but that is the name of the game. This season when JB has started and finished a game his team is 7-6 which is above average.

 

That's my point, its not far fetched that this years team could be 11-5 and could have made the playoffs (and probably beaten badly early), and while part of me would have been happy. I also would not be able to help  but see the glaring weakness at QB and realize we weren't playoff contender, and that the odds of us continuing winning like we did this year is like unsustainable. So while the 11-5 record would have been nice, in reality the team wouldn't be nearly as good as the record and we would be in for disappointment in the long run.