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Why Herbert would fit in with the colts


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He will probably be the second or third Qb taken. Depends on TUA. I doubt we would be able to move up to get him. If we move up we would have to give up one of our second picks and a first next year. If we could get him for a third this year and a first next year I would do it. I don’t like giving up our seconds with the needs we have.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He will probably be the second or third Qb taken. Depends on TUA. I doubt we would be able to move up to get him. If we move up we would have to give up one of our second picks and a first next year. If we could get him for a third this year and a first next year I would do it. I don’t like giving up our seconds with the needs we have.


Depends on a lot of things! I posted in a previous thread, that the Bills in 2018 traded up from 12th to 7th to draft J. Allen. The cost was a swap of 1st Rd picks with Tampa and both of the Bills, 2nd Rd selections. (53rd and 56th). 
 

Anything can happen on draft day.

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If he fell to us, I would take him.  (As much as I believe we should take a WR more than anything.)  If we had to give up a 1st or a 2nd in any combination in order to move up to take him, I wouldn't do it.  If it's only moving up from, say, 12th to 9th, I could swap 1st's, swap 2nd's, and give up a 3rd to do it.

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With our needs at WR I just couldn’t give up the WA pick. I might be ok with giving up our own second. A lot is going to depend on what happens in FA. Personally I can see them taking a stud DT and skipping a QB in the first round.  So many decisions and some should have a answer after FA. Hopefully we can land a guy or two in FA so we don’t have to make these hard decisions.

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I just heard Todd McShay talk about the upcoming draft on the D. Patrick show.  He really likes Tua but his injury issues are a big concern.  He was surprised by Burrows rise but he is definitely a team leader.  Players really like him and gravitate to him.  He said Herbert is an introvert.  Not a real team leader.  But he has all the tools.  I was surprised by his description of Herbert.  I'm not sure how a QB with a laid back personality would fit as the leader of a Pro offense.  Maybe we will get to find out. 

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I think it would cost us a lot to get in position to draft Herbert. Don't know if he's worth it.

Maybe we're in position to trade down and somehow snag an extra 1st rounder next year. 

Then we would be able to trade up and draft Fields or Lawrence. I think they're Herberts level at minimum (think they're both better).

Draft DT, WR and OT this year with our first 3 picks. 

In that way, we could instantly play a good, young qb with a good, talented team with little holes(if at all). 

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I’ve openly hitched my wagon to Jordan Love as it seems like that’s Ballard’s guy. However, I also think that Hebert is the other option. A lot of mock drafts have had the Colts taking Herbert as well. I think one of the two are almost guaranteed to be a Colt next year. The question is do you trade up Herbert? Do you take Love at 15? We’re still waiting on the final draft order but I know for certain that the Colts are going to want to get in front of the Chargers.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I just heard Todd McShay talk about the upcoming draft on the D. Patrick show.  He really likes Tua but his injury issues are a big concern.  He was surprised by Burrows rise but he is definitely a team leader.  Players really like him and gravitate to him.  He said Herbert is an introvert.  Not a real team leader.  But he has all the tools.  I was surprised by his description of Herbert.  I'm not sure how a QB with a laid back personality would fit as the leader of a Pro offense.  Maybe we will get to find out. 

Wouldn’t you describe Luck that way also? Herbert is a smart kid. He has like a 4.0 GPA and going to school for medicine. He is a kid you don’t have any concerns off the field. I was watching a interview with him. His personality reminds me a lot of Eli Manning.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

With our needs at WR I just couldn’t give up the WA pick. I might be ok with giving up our own second. A lot is going to depend on what happens in FA. Personally I can see them taking a stud DT and skipping a QB in the first round.  So many decisions and some should have a answer after FA. Hopefully we can land a guy or two in FA so we don’t have to make these hard decisions.

It doesn't have to be an A or B conversation. And even if it is, there will be plenty of very good WRs throughout the 2nd and third, and likely some quality possession X type guys in the 4th.

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It doesn't have to be an A or B conversation. And even if it is, there will be plenty of very good WRs throughout the 2nd and third, and likely some quality possession X type guys in the 4th.

Not looking for just quality. I want a star.

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~40% of QBs fail when drafted in the first 2-3 rounds... I read somewhere. If our DL, WR or Edge guy isn’t there at Pick ##... then I’m for trading back and gathering another 2nd rounder... To many holes... and we need to protect our previously drafted 1-2 rounders...with more talent. QB can wait until later in the draft or 2021... IMO

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40 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Wouldn’t you describe Luck that way also? Herbert is a smart kid. He has like a 4.0 GPA and going to school for medicine. He is a kid you don’t have any concerns off the field. I was watching a interview with him. His personality reminds me a lot of Eli Manning.

Possibly.  I guess I would have to see him in an interview.  Eli and Drew Bledsoe were two that came to my mind when I heard McShay's remarks.  

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16 minutes ago, FalseStart said:

~40% of QBs fail when drafted in the first 2-3 rounds... I read somewhere. If our DL, WR or Edge guy isn’t there at Pick ##... then I’m for trading back and gathering another 2nd rounder... To many holes... and we need to protect our previously drafted 1-2 rounders...with more talent. QB can wait until later in the draft or 2021... IMO

How much is that though because they go bad organizations that don’t know how to build a team.

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Below is an extract from an article saying why Herbert may be a good fit for us (even before our season began to collapse.)

 

For me, Herbert would be my #1 QB for us to target (all things being equal) but I would probably look for us to take a DT like Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw in the 1st round (if they're at our pick) and maybe trading up later for Jordan Love. 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/5-best-team-fits-for-the-5-first-round-qbs-in-2020

 

JUSTIN HERBERT - INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Jacoby Brissett has been as good as the Colts could have expected him to be so far this season. The Brissett-led Colts are 4-2 and on top of the AFC South. There is a chance they believe in Brissett enough to not spend a first round pick on a quarterback post-Luck retirement. But if they still want to go that direction, I think Justin Herbert is their best fit.

Colts head coach Frank Reich has spent most of his football days managing the quarterback position. He was a quarterback in the NFL for 14 years before getting into coach, and his knowledge of the position is vast. Reich also comes from the Andy Reid coaching tree. Reich was under Eagles head coach Doug Peterson for their Super Bowl run in 2017, and Peterson is a close branch to Reid, first as a player in 1999, then as a coach from 2013-2015.

Such a coaching tree asks for a unique style of play from their quarterbacks, one that demands a big arm, a mobile element, and quick-hit ability. Of the quarterbacks who would likely be in range of a Colts selection, the one who fits the bill there is Justin Herbert. Herbert can go West Coast on you with fast-paced, no huddle quick accuracy, and also hit his deep shots.

Herbert would give Reich that opportunity to get creative in many ways. But, as stated before, they could just as easily roll with Brissett, at this point.

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44 minutes ago, FalseStart said:

~40% of QBs fail when drafted in the first 2-3 rounds... I read somewhere. If our DL, WR or Edge guy isn’t there at Pick ##... then I’m for trading back and gathering another 2nd rounder... To many holes... and we need to protect our previously drafted 1-2 rounders...with more talent. QB can wait until later in the draft or 2021... IMO


I’ll take one of the QBs at 60% then.

 

Ballard has been trading back for 2nd Rd picks and the results are mixed. Give me a potential blue chip prospect.
 

Will the Colts be in position to take a QB in 2021? They’re in a very good position now. 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Not looking for just quality. I want a star.

Here's how the rooks are doing this year in yards per game

1. McLaurin R3-13

2. AJ Brown R2-19

3. Metcalf  R2-32

4. Slayton R5-32

5. Williams UDFA

6. Samuel R2-4

7. M Brown R1-25

8. Johnson R3-2

9. Hardman R2-24

10. Renfrow R5-11

 

Point being, the top 5 rookie producers were all taken middle second or after.... 

 

The top 4 rated WRs in this class might end up being good, but they were surrounded by talent and all had great QBs. There are plenty of really good, perhaps better, that weren't surrounded by as much talent, and will likely be available later if not much later than the 1st or early 2nd.

 

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I am ok with 2nd round for a WR. I know it’s deep this year. I just want to make sure the guy we get is a good route runner, fast, and isn’t to much of a project. I don’t want another one that has to learn to run routes like Campbell. I want to make sure the guy can come in and hopefully contribute right away.

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37 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am ok with 2nd round for a WR. I know it’s deep this year. I just want to make sure the guy we get is a good route runner, fast, and isn’t to much of a project. I don’t want another one that has to learn to run routes like Campbell. I want to make sure the guy can come in and hopefully contribute right away.

 

Well, A J Brown was staring at us, could have had him. Instead, we went with Ben Banogu that probably would have been available at the Parris Campbell pick (of course, I don't know for 100% but based on projections, I am guessing here). I know it is not fair to Parris Campbell because he may very well have been coming along just like A J Brown if he had not been banged up in the Steelers game that cost him games but we knew from his Miss. days that A J Brown was a little more ready than Parris. Most of the forum wanted A J Brown too, if I remember. 

 

Percy Harvin, no matter how hard they tried, was more effective out of the slot like Parris Campbell but A J Brown was the outside guy that was there for the taking. Our Devin Funchess signing probably gave us the feeling we could develop one for the inside for YAC.

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I am ok if Campbell ends up being primarily a slot WR. He can be very good. It is sad seeing how much the WR class from last year has done. That was a really good draft class. Hopefully Campbell’s career isn’t hampered by injuries. Hopefully he stays healthy from camp and has something to prove next year. They did talk about how smooth his routes were the few days he was in camp. 

 

Banogu has shown flashes I think he will take a major step next year working with Mathis this off season. 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am ok with 2nd round for a WR. I know it’s deep this year. I just want to make sure the guy we get is a good route runner, fast, and isn’t to much of a project. I don’t want another one that has to learn to run routes like Campbell. I want to make sure the guy can come in and hopefully contribute right away.

Campbell hardly played this year to judge his route running. 

43 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am ok if Campbell ends up being primarily a slot WR. He can be very good. It is sad seeing how much the WR class from last year has done. That was a really good draft class. Hopefully Campbell’s career isn’t hampered by injuries. Hopefully he stays healthy from camp and has something to prove next year. They did talk about how smooth his routes were the few days he was in camp. 

Campbell was drafted at minimum to start out at slot. They said they would work him outside a bit gradually. Honestly, with JB, any slot isn't going to get targeted much. Our slots are as much decoys as anything else. Z, X, and TE are the first reads 9 out of 10 times. Can't say for certain this year, but last year the passing charts showed us using the slot for clear outs more than anything in order to get the other guys open on a drag. And JB hasn't been comfortable all year going into the seam +5 yards.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Campbell hardly played this year to judge his route running. 

Campbell was drafted at minimum to start out at slot. They said they would work him outside a bit gradually. Honestly, with JB, any slot isn't going to get targeted much. Our slots are as much decoys as anything else. Z, X, and TE are the first reads 9 out of 10 times. Can't say for certain this year, but last year the passing charts showed us using the slot for clear outs more than anything in order to get the other guys open on a drag. And JB hasn't been comfortable all year going into the seam +5 yards.

I was thinking about this is why we never see much of Hines in the slot. At first I thought maybe Reich was why. But I have been thinking about this the last few days and Jacoby doesn’t really target that area.  So maybe it’s his limitations or he just doesn’t see that part of the field. I think Parris did have some good plays in the Steelers game from the slot.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I was thinking about this is why we never see much of Hines in the slot. At first I thought maybe Reich was why. But I have been thinking about this the last few days and Jacoby doesn’t really target that area.  So maybe it’s his limitations or he just doesn’t see that part of the field. I think Parris did have some good plays in the Steelers game from the slot.

Hines is more valuable, at least with JB as QB, as the check down. JB would never see him in the seam. JB does see him though as a bailout/check down. 

 

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17 hours ago, richard pallo said:
18 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Wouldn’t you describe Luck that way also? Herbert is a smart kid. He has like a 4.0 GPA and going to school for medicine. He is a kid you don’t have any concerns off the field. I was watching a interview with him. His personality reminds me a lot of Eli Manning.

Possibly.  I guess I would have to see him in an interview.  Eli and Drew Bledsoe were two that came to my mind when I heard McShay's remarks.  

It is great that a QB is super smart, Luck was supposed to have a photographic memory, never seen that aspect of his game but whatever. I want a QB who can play the game, make the throws and be available each game. A comparable to Eli would be fine for me. 
 

as for the introvert aspect, the player will eventually have his guys rally for him if he shows his craft on the field. Don’t need a stern field general like Peyton was, would like a little more vocal than Luck was but I’ll take a performer over a verbal guy everyday. 
 

as for the guys who are up for possible our pick, I’m thinking I’m not moving up unless I absolutely know he is going to be a producer in this league. If he comes with too many concerns, I look for that game wrecker for the Dline if he is there or a dominant OT as my first pick if that QB doesn’t just naturally fall to me. Trenches first if the QB isn’t there. 

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17 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

How much is that though because they go bad organizations that don’t know how to build a team.

Currently, we are looking like a bad organization to come to. I’m not certain with how we’ve handled this year, this team is looked like the competent team we thought we had. I’m concerned. 

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I agree.  He is the one QB I want for the Colts, who I think will definitely be an upgrade over JB.  The other QBs could be a wasted pick by being some project that never develops.

 

If we pick a QB in the first, Herbert is the guy I want, and we need to move up to pick #2 to take.

 

What does that cost?  Our first of course, and the Redskin's pick and our 1st and 2nd next year? 

 

I would actually make that trade.

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20 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

I was thinking about this is why we never see much of Hines in the slot. At first I thought maybe Reich was why. But I have been thinking about this the last few days and Jacoby doesn’t really target that area.  So maybe it’s his limitations or he just doesn’t see that part of the field. I think Parris did have some good plays in the Steelers game from the slot.

Because Hines sucks.  The slot isn't really his role.  His role is to primarily get the ball in space from where ever he lines up.

 

But he's not useful anywhere.  He's not elusive enough in space to avoid body contact, and goes down too easy when contacted.

 

Actually, Mack should take Hines' role, and be on the field more often then Hines has been (in the slot too).  He's elusive in space and can break a tackle.

 

When Philly went to the SB, they had Sproles and Blount.  We need a new RB to go between the tackles instead of Mack, and we need Mack to fill the sproles role that Hines can't fill.

 

So by taking a better between the tackles runner than Mack, and having Mack displace Hines, we'd be upgrading TWO offensive playmaker positions with one draft pick.

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2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  He is the one QB I want for the Colts, who I think will definitely be an upgrade over JB.  The other QBs could be a wasted pick by being some project that never develops.

 

If we pick a QB in the first, Herbert is the guy I want, and we need to move up to pick #2 to take.

 

What does that cost?  Our first of course, and the Redskin's pick and our 1st and 2nd next year? 

 

I would actually make that trade.

A guy that sits a year is not a wasted pick. So we’re Mahomes and Jackson a waste of a pick to move up for. 

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

A guy that sits a year is not a wasted pick. So we’re Mahomes and Jackson a waste of a pick to move up for. 

I said that it could be a wasted pick to pick a project that never develops. 

 

Mahomes and Jackson turned out to have developed.....at least....have been able to do good things in the NFL.  Still not convinced they can pass from the pocket on a consistent, long term basis.

 

I'd rather trade a lot to move up to get what would be considered a sure thing (to the extent that's possible with a college QB) over taking a QB in the middle of the first who is viewed as having material flaws needing correction.

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I agree.  He is the one QB I want for the Colts, who I think will definitely be an upgrade over JB.  The other QBs could be a wasted pick by being some project that never develops.

 

If we pick a QB in the first, Herbert is the guy I want, and we need to move up to pick #2 to take.

 

What does that cost?  Our first of course, and the Redskin's pick and our 1st and 2nd next year? 

 

I would actually make that trade.

He isn't going 2 overall by anyone that I have seen doing mocks.   Doesn't mean he won't.   Have to wait till the combine I guess

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

He isn't going 2 overall by anyone that I have seen doing mocks.   Doesn't mean he won't.   Have to wait till the combine I guess

Yeah, I agree.  I think these predraft mocks truly try to rank the best players regardless of position at this point. 

 

The QBs tend to move up and maybe even get overvalued as we get closer to the draft.  I'm sort of forecasting the trend and figure both Burrow and he will settle in as the top two picks come draft day, whether they are truly worth it or not.

 

I could see NYG picking Chase Young, as is projected by some if he declares.  No idea what the Redskins would do.

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On 12/18/2019 at 2:42 PM, richard pallo said:

I just heard Todd McShay talk about the upcoming draft on the D. Patrick show.  He really likes Tua but his injury issues are a big concern.  He was surprised by Burrows rise but he is definitely a team leader.  Players really like him and gravitate to him.  He said Herbert is an introvert.  Not a real team leader.  But he has all the tools.  I was surprised by his description of Herbert.  I'm not sure how a QB with a laid back personality would fit as the leader of a Pro offense.  Maybe we will get to find out. 

 

I've read similar things about Herbert this year. I think that is one of the major concerns I'd have with Herbert. There are different expectations for quarterbacks you look at as being the guy and that's a tough one to overcome, imo. Has there ever been a great quarterback who also didn't have the leadership abilities/alpha mindset?

 

There are other questions I have about him too...accuracy, throwing in tight windows, playing with pressure. These things along with leadership are most important, imo. I think it's easy to get carried away with the physical tools but I don't feel physical tools can make up for deficiencies in these other areas.

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10 minutes ago, MPStack said:


Pac 12 QBs have not set the world on fire. 

John Elway

Warren Moon

Troy Aikman

Drew Bledsoe

Dan Fouts

Aaron Rodgers

Mark Brunell

Jake Plummer

Carson Palmer

Chris Chandler

Andrew Luck

 

Isn't exactly a list of average. 

 

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On 12/18/2019 at 2:57 PM, Defjamz26 said:

I’ve openly hitched my wagon to Jordan Love as it seems like that’s Ballard’s guy. However, I also think that Hebert is the other option. A lot of mock drafts have had the Colts taking Herbert as well. I think one of the two are almost guaranteed to be a Colt next year. The question is do you trade up Herbert? Do you take Love at 15? We’re still waiting on the final draft order but I know for certain that the Colts are going to want to get in front of the Chargers.

 

 

My wagon is hitched to JL as well... my biggest fear is we win our last two games and he has a great Senior Bowl and combine

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