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hambone35

Hurts or Love?

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So I just saw a mock draft us taking Hurts in the 2nd thoughts between the two I really like love but hurts is starting to grow on me as well. I don’t think Love will last until the 2nd round. 

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21 minutes ago, buccolts said:

I'm in the never Hurts camp. 

Regardless of the round. 

I've never been a huge Hurts fan, but he's improved each year, and his numbers are pretty incredible. BIG12 Ds suck, but even so....

 

71.8%

3634 yrds

11.8 / 12.8 YA/AYA

32/7 TD to INT

200.3 Rating

 

+1250 rushing yards.... 

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Hurts has started to grow on me lately also. He has amazing leadership skills. He has shown over the past year that he can learn a playbook and develop with the right coaching  

 

If you stick him behind JB for a year and let him develop with Reich coaching and teaching him. I think he could be really good. Also you could really go with the RPO game a lot more. 
 

 

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I honestly get Jacoby vibes with Hurts. Gets happy feet, holds onto the ball, chooses to run an awful lot if his first read isn't open (which I get he's a much better runner, but still). Doesn't throw into tight windows/doesn't lead guys or throw guys open very well, usually hits already open players.

I'm not a big fan and I'd actually be pretty disappointed if he's the pick at QB. Great runner but I don't think he has a very high ceiling as a passer.

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Like the others have said, Hurts is a really interesting pick. We see how most of the good young QBs these days can all run, and run well. This isn't the age of the pocket passer anymore, so it might be time to get with the program and grab a good, dual threat QB. Just my 2 cents

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50 minutes ago, WarGhost21 said:

Like the others have said, Hurts is a really interesting pick. We see how most of the good young QBs these days can all run, and run well. This isn't the age of the pocket passer anymore, so it might be time to get with the program and grab a good, dual threat QB. Just my 2 cents

Name them, just so we have them here for reference. 

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23 minutes ago, buccolts said:

Name them, just so we have them here for reference. 

Kyler Murray, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, and even Patrick Mahomes can run. Then you have the somewhat older running QBs such as Cam Newton and Russell Wilson. Out of the top 5 QBs so far this season according to NFL.com, 4 of them are on this list (Jackson, Wilson, Watson, and Mahomes), with Brees being the only one that doesn’t run. It’s not even the ability to run for yardage though, it’s also the ability to extend the play outside of the pocket.

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Hurts doesn't even look like an NFL QB to me.  Maybe someone who could win games with a great defense, running game, and special teams.

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5 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Like the others have said, Hurts is a really interesting pick. We see how most of the good young QBs these days can all run, and run well. This isn't the age of the pocket passer anymore, so it might be time to get with the program and grab a good, dual threat QB. Just my 2 cents

 

Huh? The top 15 QB's statistically are all primarily pocket passing QB's. Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, Prescott, Wentz, while being mobile in the pocket, are not running QB's. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are really the only 2 QB's used in actual running situations continuously. 

 

Sorry, but there are no Lamar Jackson's in this draft and Hurts isn't the answer either. A) I don't want to see an offense rebuilt into something that isn't sustainable. Eventually LJ will have to sit his * in the pocket. B) Every time I see Hurts' name pop up I wonder if people have actually watched him. There is a reason he couldn't cut it at Bama, and got beat out by an actual passing QB. I don't think there are going to be many teams who are going to rebuild their offense for a guy who can't read a defense, nor progress beyond his first/second read before he's wanting to just take off running. Hurts wouldn't even be on my board just due to him not being a good passing QB.

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6 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? The top 15 QB's statistically are all primarily pocket passing QB's. Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, Prescott, Wentz, while being mobile in the pocket, are not running QB's. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are really the only 2 QB's used in actual running situations continuously. 

 

Sorry, but there are no Lamar Jackson's in this draft and Hurts isn't the answer either. A) I don't want to see an offense rebuilt into something that isn't sustainable. Eventually LJ will have to sit his * in the pocket. B) Every time I see Hurts' name pop up I wonder if people have actually watched him. There is a reason he couldn't cut it at Bama, and got beat out by an actual passing QB. I don't think there are going to be many teams who are going to rebuild their offense for a guy who can't read a defense, nor progress beyond his first/second read before he's wanting to just take off running. Hurts wouldn't even be on my board just due to him not being a good passing QB.

Pocket Passing QBs are defined as QBs who sit in the pocket under pressure and make throws from the pocket. Most of the league these days is based upon QBs getting outside of the pocket to make plays, which means they are not primarily pocket passers. I’m not saying Love will be unable to get outside of the pocket, but I don’t see it much on tape as he has great protection and doesn’t need to. Personally, I don’t care for either of them, and would rather wait for the better class in 2021 while building more this year, but of the two, it would at least be more interesting to go for something the Colts haven’t really ever had. Spice it up a bit, ya know

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8 hours ago, DougDew said:

  Maybe someone who could win games with a great defense, running game, and special teams.

that is jacoby 

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7 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

A) I don't want to see an offense rebuilt into something that isn't sustainable. Eventually LJ will have to sit his * in the pocket.

 

i wonder how many super bowls he will win first.  sounds worth it to me

 

also mike vick never lost his speed, he had injuries but was still really fast when he retired 

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I am warming up to Anthony Gordon

 

Another poster shared his info.

 

He seems to be an excellent prospect that should be available with out second second round pick

 

 

Excellent touch

 

Mobile

 

Quick reads

 

Quick release

 

Very Strong Arm

 

Send him to the weight room

 

To me, he has much better upside than Eason, Fromm, or Hurts

 

If he (OR Love) is still available with our 3rd pick...... I would select him

 

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41 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I am warming up to Anthony Gordon

 

Another poster shared his info.

 

He seems to be an excellent prospect that should be available with out second second round pick

 

 

Excellent touch

 

Mobile

 

Quick reads

 

Quick release

 

Very Strong Arm

 

Send him to the weight room

 

To me, he has much better upside than Eason, Fromm, or Hurts

 

If he (OR Love) is still available with our 3rd pick...... I would select him

 

I am pretty high on him, too(maybe you meant my post in another thread :default_20smile:) he could even be available in the 3rd round. Sit him a year behind JB, let him learn and see what he's got. Could be a real value pick.

At least, you will have a cheap backup and i think a 3rd round pick is worth the risk. 

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8 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Huh? The top 15 QB's statistically are all primarily pocket passing QB's. Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Rodgers, Prescott, Wentz, while being mobile in the pocket, are not running QB's. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are really the only 2 QB's used in actual running situations continuously. 

 

Sorry, but there are no Lamar Jackson's in this draft and Hurts isn't the answer either. A) I don't want to see an offense rebuilt into something that isn't sustainable. Eventually LJ will have to sit his * in the pocket. B) Every time I see Hurts' name pop up I wonder if people have actually watched him. There is a reason he couldn't cut it at Bama, and got beat out by an actual passing QB. I don't think there are going to be many teams who are going to rebuild their offense for a guy who can't read a defense, nor progress beyond his first/second read before he's wanting to just take off running. Hurts wouldn't even be on my board just due to him not being a good passing QB.

 

It's funny because people said the same thing about Lamar coming out, which is why he barely went in the 1st and was a projected Day 2 guy. You never really know. Hurts has improved every year in college, and imo his floor is a Dak Prescott type player, with a poor man's Lamar Jackson being his ceiling. He is having a Heisman type year and really only has one legit NFL guy to throw to. It will really come down to who drafts him, and how willing they are to tailor personnel and scheme to his benefit. 

 

What's interesting is how similar Lamar's last year at Louisville was to what Hurts is putting up this year:

 

Lamar: 59.1% Completion, 3660 yards passing, 27/10 TD/INT, 146.6 rating, 1601 rushing yards, 18 TD's

 

Hurts: 71.8 % Completion, 3634 yards passing, 32/7 TD/INT, 200.3 rating, 1255 rushing yards, 18 TD's

 

Hurts had a better year passing with 12% higher completions, a little better TD/INT ratio, and about 60 points better passer rating, but Lamar ran for about 350 more yards. That was my thinking as well, Lamar a slightly better runner and Hurts a slightly better thrower of the football. 

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16 hours ago, hambone35 said:

So I just saw a mock draft us taking Hurts in the 2nd thoughts between the two I really like love but hurts is starting to grow on me as well. I don’t think Love will last until the 2nd round. 

I'm having a hard time getting next to either Hurts or Love.  I know, CB himself went to scout Love's games.  But I'm not totally convinced on either of them.  Prepping for this upcoming draft is maddening.  I know we need to draft a QB.  I know we won't be able to get either of the top two guys.  I'm not sure any of the rest are worth the #15 pick.  And I'm not sure I believe in any of the guys who might be available in the 2nd round.  Argh!

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20 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

It's funny because people said the same thing about Lamar coming out, which is why he barely went in the 1st and was a projected Day 2 guy. You never really know. Hurts has improved every year in college, and imo his floor is a Dak Prescott type player, with a poor man's Lamar Jackson being his ceiling. He is having a Heisman type year and really only has one legit NFL guy to throw to. It will really come down to who drafts him, and how willing they are to tailor personnel and scheme to his benefit. 

 

What's interesting is how similar Lamar's last year at Louisville was to what Hurts is putting up this year:

 

Lamar: 59.1% Completion, 3660 yards passing, 27/10 TD/INT, 146.6 rating, 1601 rushing yards, 18 TD's

 

Hurts: 71.8 % Completion, 3634 yards passing, 32/7 TD/INT, 200.3 rating, 1255 rushing yards, 18 TD's

 

Hurts had a better year passing with 12% higher completions, a little better TD/INT ratio, and about 60 points better passer rating, but Lamar ran for about 350 more yards. That was my thinking as well, Lamar a slightly better runner and Hurts a slightly better thrower of the football. 

For me, watching Hurts play, I see a guy that cant process the NFL game

 

The love for running QBs seems to happen every year.

 

They dont seem to survive........

 

Cam Newton was UNSTOPPABLE....... Until he started to get nicked up

 

You are seeing the latest wonderkid in Mahommes.......  He is getting BEAT UP

 

Lamar is UNSTOPPABLE........  but mark it down.... he will get nicked

 

The pocket passers, that dont try to be running backs seem to last....

 

Thats what this old dude wants........

 

Give me a QB that COULD run if needed.  But ya gotta be able to throw the ball FIRST

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11 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'm having a hard time getting next to either Hurts or Love.  I know, CB himself went to scout Love's games.  But I'm not totally convinced on either of them.  Prepping for this upcoming draft is maddening.  I know we need to draft a QB.  I know we won't be able to get either of the top two guys.  I'm not sure any of the rest are worth the #15 pick.  And I'm not sure I believe in any of the guys who might be available in the 2nd round.  Argh!

 

Question is will we be picking at 15 when it's all said and done? There's a very real possibility we will be picking in the 9-12 range, with possibility to be in the 7-8 range. Sucks to say, but if we lose out we should be picking higher than 15th. 

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20 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

For me, watching Hurts play, I see a guy that cant process the NFL game

 

The love for running QBs seems to happen every year.

 

They dont seem to survive........

 

Cam Newton was UNSTOPPABLE....... Until he started to get nicked up

 

You are seeing the latest wonderkid in Mahommes.......  He is getting BEAT UP

 

Lamar is UNSTOPPABLE........  but mark it down.... he will get nicked

 

The pocket passers, that dont try to be running backs seem to last....

 

Thats what this old dude wants........

 

Give me a QB that COULD run if needed.  But ya gotta be able to throw the ball FIRST

 

Hurts has a 200 passer rating and 32/7 TD/INT ratio, I'd say he's okay at throwing the ball. 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

 

The love for running QBs seems to happen every year.

 

thats because they are getting better, 3 of the top 4 this year are pretty good runners

 

they dont always get hurt and slow down either, never happened to vick

 

and so what if lamar doesnt play until hes 40, he might win a super bowl or two by the time hes 30.  that would be worth it to me.  

 

as for cam, hes had a good career.  could have been better with a Qb minded coach 

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When Hurts got pulled at half time 2 years ago in the national title game for true Freshman Tua that was all I needed to see. They interviewed Sabin after the game and asked why he put Tua in and he said “Because we needed to throw the ball and I thought he could do it better”. Pretty much a clear indication that Hurts isn’t exactly an amazing passer.

 

Then he goes to a coach who produced back to back Heisman QBs And has a turnaround and people want to act like it’s anything other than scheme. Hurts isn’t good; Lincoln Riley is.

 

I want no parts of Hurts. Give me Love all day

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1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Hurts has a 200 passer rating and 32/7 TD/INT ratio, I'd say he's okay at throwing the ball. 

You may be missing my point

 

A running QB that can also throw, to survive has to become a pass first QB in the NFL

 

If you just took the passing rating as the ONLY thing to measure, you would have to rank Hurts as a better NFL prospect than Lawrence of Clemson. Which I am sure that you wouldnt.

 

I'm not saying that Hurts is a bum.......  my ..... PERSONAL OPINION ALERT  think that there are better prospects for the Colts......

 

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1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Question is will we be picking at 15 when it's all said and done? There's a very real possibility we will be picking in the 9-12 range, with possibility to be in the 7-8 range. Sucks to say, but if we lose out we should be picking higher than 15th. 

I love my Colts..... but would NOT be surprised if we lost the last 3 games....... 

6-10 is a REAL possibility.  

 

6-10 is probably 8 at best......

 

If Tua is somehow available, or close..... Im making it happen

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ColtsGermany said:

I am pretty high on him, too(maybe you meant my post in another thread :default_20smile:) he could even be available in the 3rd round. Sit him a year behind JB, let him learn and see what he's got. Could be a real value pick.

At least, you will have a cheap backup and i think a 3rd round pick is worth the risk. 

I was watching some tape on him as well as some interviews

 

He seems like an intelligent kid. 

 

If they like the kid, I wouldnt risk the pick....... take him with our later 2nd round pick

 

I am starting to like this kid more than Love

 

 

You can build the team with the first two picks 

 

Best two available  OT, WR, and/or DL

 

Use FA a little bit more..... 

 

I would DUMP Hoyer after the season

 

He brings no value to the team, if he cant win when counted upon

 

If we were to draft Gordon (or Love)

 

Let them compete with JB and CK

 

Keep the top 2......   

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, WarGhost21 said:

Kyler Murray, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Dak Prescott, and even Patrick Mahomes can run. Then you have the somewhat older running QBs such as Cam Newton and Russell Wilson. Out of the top 5 QBs so far this season according to NFL.com, 4 of them are on this list (Jackson, Wilson, Watson, and Mahomes), with Brees being the only one that doesn’t run. It’s not even the ability to run for yardage though, it’s also the ability to extend the play outside of the pocket.

 

They can run but what makes the great ones great here is their passing ability not their running. The running is a good extra to have and IMO it's a proxy to playmaking ability out of pocket(i.e. the good runners have better mobility overall and are better able to escape pockets and make plays on the move), which is another thing most great ones have... the thing is the best of the best leave the pocket to throw, not to run. Lamar Jackson is the exception here IMO. He bends the defense with his run threat and the whole Ravens offense is built around his running ability. He is just a different animal... and I still don't know how sustainable this is. Lets see how defenses adjust to it next year and if he can stay healthy like that while running so much.

 

Wentz, Mahomes, Watson are all good/great pocket passers. Murray is another one who got drafted because he was a great passer, but provided additional running threat too. I personally am still not sure Josh Allen is a good QB and I don't know how sustainable that team's play is. They primarily win because of their defense, not offense right now and he needs to become a much better passer or he will flame out like the Mariotas of the world. 

 

IMO Hurts best ability is his running ability but it's nowhere near as good as Lamar's and I don't believe he will be able to bend defenses in a similar way. And he's not a good enough pocket passer to survive playing like this IMO. IMO you need to either go all in with building your team around his running ability(like the Ravens did with Lamar), or you are better off not drafting him. 

 

My vote here is Love. And by some margin. 

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8 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

Lamar leads the league in passing TDs

 

Yep, because the threat of their run games opens up whole fields of open space and well defined throws behind the linebackers that are keyed in on the run. What the Ravens do with their offense is very different than anything anyone else does in the league right now and it screws up defenses majorly in many ways. I kind of expect the defensive coordinators to figure out something by next season and adjust at least partially to that type of offense.

 

Remember how McVey's Rams offense was unbelievably efficient for a while and people thought they've cracked the code for unstoppable offense? Defenses adjust and when they see something that works against a particular team they start copying it and making things difficult for them. 

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Yep, because the threat of their run games opens up whole fields of open space and well defined throws behind the linebackers that are keyed in on the run. What the Ravens do with their offense is very different than anything anyone else does in the league right now and it screws up defenses majorly in many ways. I kind of expect the defensive coordinators to figure out something by next season and adjust at least partially to that type of offense.

 

Remember how McVey's Rams offense was unbelievably efficient for a while and people thought they've cracked the code for unstoppable offense.  Defenses adjdust and when they see something that works against a particular team they start copying it and making things difficult for them. 

 

 

they will probably adjust some, but he is actually getting good at reading defenses too

 

if he keeps making good reads he will probably keep winning.  a major problem for defenses is that no front 7 defender in the league can catch him.  if they devote too much to stopping him then someone will be open 

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7 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

 

they will probably adjust some, but he is actually getting good at reading defenses too

 

if he keeps making good reads he will probably keep winning.  a major problem for defenses is that no front 7 defender in the league can catch him.  if they devote too much to stopping him then someone will be open 

Yeah, I think he was not bad reading defenses even in college and he's into the zone right now where he doesn't seem like he can do anything wrong. He makes the perfect reads, perfect throws, perfect runs. It's possible he develops into an unstoppable force over the next several years. 

 

For example, since the thread is about Hurts - I thought Lamar was much better pocket passer than Hurts in college. And much better/elusive runner. Hurts more of a punishing runner, but this is not what you want from your QB - some of the hits he takes on his runs make me cringe and make me wonder how healthy can he be long-term playing like this? 

 

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4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

 

they will probably adjust some, but he is actually getting good at reading defenses too

 

if he keeps making good reads he will probably keep winning.  a major problem for defenses is that no front 7 defender in the league can catch him.  if they devote too much to stopping him then someone will be open 

 

Yeah, he's generally always the fastest guy on the field, and he's insanely shifty, it's hard to defend. Not impossible, but very difficult even with a sound defensive gameplan. The thing is, you either have to sell out on the run, but he's able to make most throws now, so it's a tough task. Mike Vick never really got "solved" and I think Lamar is an upgraded version of that. 

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