Where it all went wrong???

[Smoke317]

I don't know if this topic should be merged with another but it's something I need to get off my chest.  I've been contemplating where everything went off track for us.  And I keep coming back to the Steelers game & JB's injury.  But the more and more I think about it, I think Frank's actions in that game & the following week have cost us this season.

 

I came to this conclusion when I saw Justin Fields take a very similar shot to his knee in the OSU vs UM game.  OSU's coach put Fields back into the game.  The Buckeyes stabilized & Fields led them to victory that day & since to the playoffs.  I bring this up because it got me thinking about how our coach handled a similar situation.  JB came out & Hoyer threw a TD to Doyle (who was so wide open that JB could have made that throw but Hoyer did make some other good throws so I'm not disparaging his play that day) and Frank never looked back.

 

They showed him on the sideline and he could truly care less how his starting QB was doing...  It was as if he had been waiting for the moment where he could yank JB & put in a QB that he preferred.  How he handled the next week was more proof.  JB apparently took all the reps because he was healthy enough to play and as the starter wanted to.  But Frank didn't truly want him as the QB. So what does he do? He starts Hoyer, supposedly with minimal practice reps, because he felt that even with minimal reps, Hoyer was better than JB.

 

Unfortunately, it blew up in his and all Colts fans' faces when Hoyer laid an egg.  When Frank pulled JB for BH our season spiraled down the drain.  I believe that JB beats Pittsburgh and Miami and our season is looking very different despite the kicking woes & injuries & JB's limitations.  We were 5-2 at the time.  You don't make a boneheaded change like that.  You dance with the one that you brought...  The guy that lead us to 5-2 & 2nd in the AFC...

 

So I've reached the conclusion that Frank doesn't truly want JB as his QB.  And in that case we must move on to another QB next season.  I defended JB because the guy won and his teammates loved him.  But his limitations have worn on me as things have spiraled down the drain.  But he isn't alone in getting the blame.  I'm putting a lot of it on Frank & his decision to not trust his QB that got him to 5-2.  

 

So we'll get a QB in here that he prefers next year but he won't be getting any more free passes from me.  He better win with whomever it is because I just watched him sabotage this season when the AFC was open for the taking.  If Luck said he wanted to come back in the Steelers game would Frank have ignored him & kept JB or whomever was the backup in the game?  Not a chance.  Would he have let Luck take all the reps the following week and then went with the backup?  Not a chance.  He wanted JB out and leapt at the opportunity when it was there.  Unfortunately, all he did was sink our season...

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I don't know if this topic should be merged with another but it's something I need to get off my chest.  I've been contemplating where everything went off track for us.  And I keep coming back to the Steelers game & JB's injury.  But the more and more I think about it, I think Frank's actions in that game & the following week have cost us this season.

 

I came to this conclusion when I saw Justin Fields take a very similar shot to his knee in the OSU vs UM game.  OSU's coach put Fields back into the game.  The Buckeyes stabilized & Fields led them to victory that day & since to the playoffs.  I bring this up because it got me thinking about how our coach handled a similar situation.  JB came out & Hoyer threw a TD to Doyle (who was so wide open that JB could have made that throw but Hoyer did make some other good throws so I'm not disparaging his play that day) and Frank never looked back.

 

They showed him on the sideline and he could truly care less how his starting QB was doing...  It was as if he had been waiting for the moment where he could yank JB & put in a QB that he preferred.  How he handled the next week was more proof.  JB apparently took all the reps because he was healthy enough to play and as the starter wanted to.  But Frank didn't truly want him as the QB. So what does he do? He starts Hoyer, supposedly with minimal practice reps, because he felt that even with minimal reps, Hoyer was better than JB.

 

Unfortunately, it blew up in his and all Colts fans' faces when Hoyer laid an egg.  When Frank pulled JB for BH our season spiraled down the drain.  I believe that JB beats Pittsburgh and Miami and our season is looking very different despite the kicking woes & injuries & JB's limitations.  We were 5-2 at the time.  You don't make a boneheaded change like that.  You dance with the one that you brought...  The guy that lead us to 5-2 & 2nd in the AFC...

 

So I've reached the conclusion that Frank doesn't truly want JB as his QB.  And in that case we must move on to another QB next season.  I defended JB because the guy won and his teammates loved him.  But his limitations have worn on me as things have spiraled down the drain.  But he isn't alone in getting the blame.  I'm putting a lot of it on Frank & his decision to not trust his QB that got him to 5-2.  

 

So we'll get a QB in here that he prefers next year but he won't be getting any more free passes from me.  He better win with whomever it is because I just watched him sabotage this season when the AFC was open for the taking.  If Luck said he wanted to come back in the Steelers game would Frank have ignored him & kept JB or whomever was the backup in the game?  Not a chance.  Would he have let Luck take all the reps the following week and then went with the backup?  Not a chance.  He wanted JB out and leapt at the opportunity when it was there.  Unfortunately, all he did was sink our season...

IMO there is no way in hell JB shouldn't have played vs Miami. We win that we are 6-3, that alone changes the season up to this point even. I think Reich thought Miami was so bad that he could gamble and play Hoyer and still win. That was a mistake. If JB plays vs Miami we win that game by at least 7.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

10 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

I don't know if this topic should be merged with another but it's something I need to get off my chest.  I've been contemplating where everything went off track for us.  And I keep coming back to the Steelers game & JB's injury.  But the more and more I think about it, I think Frank's actions in that game & the following week have cost us this season.

 

I came to this conclusion when I saw Justin Fields take a very similar shot to his knee in the OSU vs UM game.  OSU's coach put Fields back into the game.  The Buckeyes stabilized & Fields led them to victory that day & since to the playoffs.  I bring this up because it got me thinking about how our coach handled a similar situation.  JB came out & Hoyer threw a TD to Doyle (who was so wide open that JB could have made that throw but Hoyer did make some other good throws so I'm not disparaging his play that day) and Frank never looked back.

 

They showed him on the sideline and he could truly care less how his starting QB was doing...  It was as if he had been waiting for the moment where he could yank JB & put in a QB that he preferred.  How he handled the next week was more proof.  JB apparently took all the reps because he was healthy enough to play and as the starter wanted to.  But Frank didn't truly want him as the QB. So what does he do? He starts Hoyer, supposedly with minimal practice reps, because he felt that even with minimal reps, Hoyer was better than JB.

 

Unfortunately, it blew up in his and all Colts fans' faces when Hoyer laid an egg.  When Frank pulled JB for BH our season spiraled down the drain.  I believe that JB beats Pittsburgh and Miami and our season is looking very different despite the kicking woes & injuries & JB's limitations.  We were 5-2 at the time.  You don't make a boneheaded change like that.  You dance with the one that you brought...  The guy that lead us to 5-2 & 2nd in the AFC...

 

So I've reached the conclusion that Frank doesn't truly want JB as his QB.  And in that case we must move on to another QB next season.  I defended JB because the guy won and his teammates loved him.  But his limitations have worn on me as things have spiraled down the drain.  But he isn't alone in getting the blame.  I'm putting a lot of it on Frank & his decision to not trust his QB that got him to 5-2.  

 

So we'll get a QB in here that he prefers next year but he won't be getting any more free passes from me.  He better win with whomever it is because I just watched him sabotage this season when the AFC was open for the taking.  If Luck said he wanted to come back in the Steelers game would Frank have ignored him & kept JB or whomever was the backup in the game?  Not a chance.  Would he have let Luck take all the reps the following week and then went with the backup?  Not a chance.  He wanted JB out and leapt at the opportunity when it was there.  Unfortunately, all he did was sink our season...

interesting post

[zibby43]

So, according to your theory, Reich sabotaged JB and the season (on his own) in order to run JB out of town?

 

Is it April Fool's Day already?

 

Jacoby's knee was hurt.  Period.

 

The one incontrovertible fact that blows your theory out of the water: there are 3 QBs on the roster, and JB has been starting/playing. 

[WoolMagnet]

As those famous poets from BOSTON exclaimed “Don’t Look Back.”

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

So, according to your theory, Reich sabotaged JB and the season (on his own) in order to run JB out of town?

 

Is it April Fool's Day already?

 

Jacoby's knee was hurt.  Period.

 

The one incontrovertible fact that blows your theory out of the water: there are 3 QBs on the roster, and JB has been starting/playing. 

Reich didn't sabotage anything but JB wanted to come back in during the Pit game was the OP's point. JB also said he was ready vs Miami. Reich just thought we could beat Miami without him as did many. 

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

interesting post

Very. 

Personally I don't point fingers at any one thing. It was a perfect storm. 

[Thunderbolt]

Very Interesting!!!

[Smoke317]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO there is no way in hell JB shouldn't have played vs Miami. We win that we are 6-3, that alone changes the season up to this point even. I think Reich thought Miami was so bad that he could gamble and play Hoyer and still win. That was a mistake.

See I disagree.  The NFL is only 16 games.  No time to gamble.  If Luck was the QB he goes back in the Steelers game & plays the next week vs Miami especially if he took all the practice reps.  Frank did gamble though.  He gambled that Hoyer would put 2 great passing games together and he would be justified in moving on from JB mid season.

 

It was so strange how little he seemed to care how JB was doing during the Steelers game.  I'm not saying he didn't care about Jacoby.  Just that he didn't care to hear anything that would lead to JB going back into the game...  Even gave Hoyer another week to steal the job. 

 

You can't make a move like that with a QB that has you at 5-2.  I think Jim Harbaugh did it with Smith & Kap.  But you can't do that with a lifelong backup in Hoyer.  We would have been better off turning to Kelly.  At least with him we would have had some potential to hope for...

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Truly interesting!!

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

See I disagree.  The NFL is only 16 games.  No time to gamble.  If Luck was the QB he goes back in the Steelers game & plays the next week vs Miami especially if he took all the practice reps.  Frank did gamble though.  He gambled that Hoyer would put 2 great passing games together and he would be justified in moving on from JB mid season.

 

It was so strange how little he seemed to care how JB was doing during the Steelers game.  I'm not saying he didn't care about Jacoby.  Just that he didn't care to hear anything that would lead to JB going back into the game...  Even gave Hoyer another week to steal the job. 

 

You can't make a move like that with a QB that has you at 5-2.  I think Jim Harbaugh did it with Smith & Kap.  But you can't do that with a lifelong backup in Hoyer.  We would have been better off turning to Kelly.  At least with him we would have had some potential to hope for...

 

 

I am agreeing with you, I am confused now  

[Smoke317]

15 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

So, according to your theory, Reich sabotaged JB and the season (on his own) in order to run JB out of town?

 

Is it April Fool's Day already?

 

Jacoby's knee was hurt.  Period.

 

The one incontrovertible fact that blows your theory out of the water: there are 3 QBs on the roster, and JB has been starting/playing. 

No.  Reich sabotaged the season because he wanted another QB to play (like many on this board).  But he couldn't pull him with a 5-2 record.  The injury opened the door.  Then Hoyer played well.  So he gave him another shot. 

 

Let's say Hoyer throws for 350 & 4td's vs the Dolphins.  I think Frank would have more of a case to say Hoyer provides us a better chance at winning because he executes the offense the way I like.  At the worst, he'd be able to have a very short leash on JB.  But Hoyer scuttled those plans.  And IMO Frank cost us this season by even entertaining the thought.  

 

Would Frank have sat Luck the rest of that game & the next without even getting an x-ray or anything?

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reich didn't sabotage anything but JB wanted to come back in during the Pit game was the OP's point. JB also said he was ready vs Miami. Reich just thought we could beat Miami without him as did many. 

Players ALWAYS want to come back.  That’s why you have doctors and coaches to look out for their best interests.  If I recall right Jacoby said he felt like he could have played the Miami game.  Again players always feel that way.  TY also said he felt like he could have played before the Texans game but as we saw in the Texans game he had no business being out there.  Players are the worst people to judge on when they can play because their fault position is I can play.  

[Four2itus]

19 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

Reich sabotaged the season because he wanted another QB to play

Horse puckey.

[zibby43]

27 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reich didn't sabotage anything but JB wanted to come back in during the Pit game was the OP's point. JB also said he was ready vs Miami. Reich just thought we could beat Miami without him as did many. 

 

Frank watched the film of Jacoby practicing leading up to the Miami game and he didn't have full mobility/range of motion.  Reich said he looked less than 100%. 

 

On a side note, in the OP's original post, he literally said Frank sabotaged the season:

 

44 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

He better win with whomever it is because I just watched him sabotage this season when the AFC was open for the taking. 

 

He wanted JB out and leapt at the opportunity when it was there.  Unfortunately, all he did was sink our season...

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, zibby43 said:

 

Frank watched the film of Jacoby practicing leading up to the Miami game and he didn't have full mobility/range of motion.  Reich said he looked less than 100%. 

 

On a side note, in the OP's original post, he literally said Frank sabotaged the season:

 

 

Yeah I was just agreeing with the OP that I thought JB should've played vs Miami, I disagree that Reich sabotaged the season to explain it better 

[Tsarquise]

It all went wrong when Andrew Luck abruptly retired.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

It all went wrong when Andrew Luck abrubtly retired.

Truth.

[EastStreet]

@Smoke317 put down the blunt, remove the tinfoil from your head, and turn off the X-files.

 

Things went wrong starting with Grigson. Those poor rosters and the injuries attributed to them took their toll. Things came to a head in 2017, and again to start 2019. There's is no deep state within the Colts organization. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

@Smoke317 put down the blunt, remove the tinfoil from your head, and turn off the X-files.

 

Things went wrong starting with Grigson. Those poor rosters and the injuries attributed to them took their toll. Things came to a head in 2017, and again to start 2019. There's is no deep state within the Colts organization. 

This will be the 'What if season'. If Andrew Luck had played 'What if'?

[Tsarquise]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This will be the 'What if season'. If Andrew Luck had played 'What if'?

They would be in contention for top team in the AFC.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

They would be in contention for top team in the AFC.

I think we would be 11-2.

[Tsarquise]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think we would be 11-2.

Might seriously be undefeated. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Tsarquise said:

Might seriously be undefeated. 

Yep. Maybe. It just depends on the health of the team. So I don't go that far with it. Our WR core has been pretty banged up. With Luck he still could be 10-3 or 11-2 with an average WR core. JB needs a good/healthy WR core to do that. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This will be the 'What if season'. If Andrew Luck had played 'What if'?

I'm already done with 2019 and ready for 2020. The "what if" to me is easy and not mysterious, but irrelevant. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I'm already done with 2019 and ready for 2020. The "what if" to me is easy and not mysterious, but irrelevant. 

So is Andrew coming back, is JB the starter again, will Kelly get his shot, or will we draft a QB going into 2020?

[EastStreet]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

So is Andrew coming back, is JB the starter again, will Kelly get his shot, or will we draft a QB going into 2020?

Who knows what Ballard will do. You know what I would do lol.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Who knows what Ballard will do. You know what I would do lol.

I have no idea either what Ballard will do. I know you and many are done with JB. How disappointed will you be if we draft a Love or Herbert and just start them next season, but they suck? That is possible. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Be careful what you wish for, it may not be as good as what you had is the old saying. JB isn't Luck but he may be better than anyone we can draft this season. After having Peyton and Luck I just feel like this forum will be critical of anyone. There were several good posters on here critical of Luck because he followed Peyton  

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have no idea either what Ballard will do. I know you and many are done with JB. How disappointed will you be if we draft a Love or Herbert and just start them next season, but they suck? That is possible. 

If they suck, they suck. You keep looking for the right one until you find the right one.

It's just like dating. 

 

Whoever it is, they'll be coming into a good situation. 

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Be careful what you wish for, it may not be as good as what you had is the old saying. JB isn't Luck but he may be better than anyone we can draft this season. After having Peyton and Luck I just feel like this forum will be critical of anyone. There were several good posters on here critical of Luck because he followed Peyton  

I was critical of Luck when he did bad. Bad is bad. The overwhelming majority of his product performance was good though. JB just has good moments, and isn't even good at many of the basics. 

 

Like I said, it's like dating. JB is like the girl that's OK looking, cooks bland, boring conversationalist, isn't great in bed, but never ever accidentally farts (INTs) when company is over. She's very happy with you because you've treated her better than anyone else ever has. You hate to break her heart and dump her because she's not horrible, but you just want more.

 

Give me the girl that makes her chili on the hot side, a bit naughty, makes me laugh, and I'll put up with the occasional stinker when the neighbors come by.

[2006Coltsbestever]

57 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I was critical of Luck when he did bad. Bad is bad. The overwhelming majority of his product performance was good though. JB just has good moments, and isn't even good at many of the basics. 

 

Like I said, it's like dating. JB is like the girl that's OK looking, cooks bland, boring conversationalist, isn't great in bed, but never ever accidentally farts (INTs) when company is over. She's very happy with you because you've treated her better than anyone else ever has. You hate to break her heart and dump her because she's not horrible, but you just want more.

 

Give me the girl that makes her chili on the hot side, a bit naughty, makes me laugh, and I'll put up with the occasional stinker when the neighbors come by.

. 

[csmopar]

6 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

I don't know if this topic should be merged with another but it's something I need to get off my chest.  I've been contemplating where everything went off track for us.  And I keep coming back to the Steelers game & JB's injury.  But the more and more I think about it, I think Frank's actions in that game & the following week have cost us this season.

 

I came to this conclusion when I saw Justin Fields take a very similar shot to his knee in the OSU vs UM game.  OSU's coach put Fields back into the game.  The Buckeyes stabilized & Fields led them to victory that day & since to the playoffs.  I bring this up because it got me thinking about how our coach handled a similar situation.  JB came out & Hoyer threw a TD to Doyle (who was so wide open that JB could have made that throw but Hoyer did make some other good throws so I'm not disparaging his play that day) and Frank never looked back.

 

They showed him on the sideline and he could truly care less how his starting QB was doing...  It was as if he had been waiting for the moment where he could yank JB & put in a QB that he preferred.  How he handled the next week was more proof.  JB apparently took all the reps because he was healthy enough to play and as the starter wanted to.  But Frank didn't truly want him as the QB. So what does he do? He starts Hoyer, supposedly with minimal practice reps, because he felt that even with minimal reps, Hoyer was better than JB.

 

Unfortunately, it blew up in his and all Colts fans' faces when Hoyer laid an egg.  When Frank pulled JB for BH our season spiraled down the drain.  I believe that JB beats Pittsburgh and Miami and our season is looking very different despite the kicking woes & injuries & JB's limitations.  We were 5-2 at the time.  You don't make a boneheaded change like that.  You dance with the one that you brought...  The guy that lead us to 5-2 & 2nd in the AFC...

 

So I've reached the conclusion that Frank doesn't truly want JB as his QB.  And in that case we must move on to another QB next season.  I defended JB because the guy won and his teammates loved him.  But his limitations have worn on me as things have spiraled down the drain.  But he isn't alone in getting the blame.  I'm putting a lot of it on Frank & his decision to not trust his QB that got him to 5-2.  

 

So we'll get a QB in here that he prefers next year but he won't be getting any more free passes from me.  He better win with whomever it is because I just watched him sabotage this season when the AFC was open for the taking.  If Luck said he wanted to come back in the Steelers game would Frank have ignored him & kept JB or whomever was the backup in the game?  Not a chance.  Would he have let Luck take all the reps the following week and then went with the backup?  Not a chance.  He wanted JB out and leapt at the opportunity when it was there.  Unfortunately, all he did was sink our season...

Sir, you're not supposed to drink the bong water. Oh, and I hear Kroger is running a sale on tin foil. Might stock up. 

[csmopar]

5 hours ago, Tsarquise said:

It all went wrong when Andrew Luck abruptly retired.

Agreed. 

[Smoke317]

As a connoisseur, I appreciate the weed jokes.  You guys can keep your X-Files & tinfoil though.  I know what I saw on the sideline and heard what came out of 56th street the following week...  But why don't you geniuses answer my questions?

 

Would Frank have put Luck back into the Steelers game if he said he wanted to go back in?  They never took JB's helmet until after halftime.  Never took him to the back for a more thorough examination.  Just let him stand there with his helmet & watch...  Also would Frank have let Luck take all the reps the next week but then bench him at the last moment and roll with a backup with such minimal preparation?  

 

If your answer is yes to either then you're all smoking crack or crystal meth.  And I don't want any of either.  Though I hear tinfoil could be used with either.  .  So enjoy.  I'll stick with the weed and I'll be waiting for those answers. 

[Yoshinator]

The root of the problem goes back to Grigson, who couldn't draft an O-Line for Luck to save his life. It ultimately forced Luck to retire and it put us in the situation we are in today. We went from a possible SB contender to a team that is struggling to make the playoffs. Don't let Ballard fool you, it is about one person, it was about Luck just like it was about Manning. The QB is half the value of the team. I'm guessing Luck was worth 5 wins this year. We have been set back 3 years and our QB of the future is not on this roster.

 

Basically, we're not doing crap until we fill the QB position with solid play, and that could take years. I'm at the point where I don't care until I see who we draft. Rest of this season is meaningless unless Chad Kelly starts a game or two and dominates.

[Nadine]

Please no more illegal substance references.

This conspiracy theory is insulting to our coach and our organization.

I know the season unraveled but this sort or rumor is unfair, unkind, and untrue.

especially this complete fabrication

Quote

They showed him on the sideline and he could truly care less how his starting QB was doing...  It was as if he had been waiting for the moment where he could yank JB & put in a QB that he preferred.