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Chloe6124

Zone doesn’t work when you can’t get pressure with 4

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13 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Except that two deep crap is always a given that you will give the opposing QB all day to throw and make him look like Montana in his prime.

 

It would be very difficult to make this any more incorrect than it already is.  how much time the opposing QB will have has much more to do with the DL than the coverage shell.  BTW, we're talking about the same scheme that Tampa Bay used to get to and win a superbowl.  

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26 minutes ago, coltsva said:

I bet that mute button came in handy.

Yeah, I should have found an alternate feed to listen to.  They were all fair comments though.   They were confirming what I was thinking most of the time.  

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2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This goes back to how much that Turay injury killed us. The zone will get picked apart if you can’t get pressure with the front four.  

The zone sucked even with Turay

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3 hours ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

1. DT

2.QB

3.CB

4.WR

5.FB

6.OL depth

7.Def depth

Good post but I would move both line  depths up to lines 3 and 4 and 

remove the FB position altogether. I don't believe we have had a full

time FB since Iron Head Hayward.

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Zone coverage is great in certain circumstances.  The issue I had yesterday, when the Colts ran man coverage with the two CBs and nickle but the LBers and safeties played zone the D did well. but it seemed like when they blitzed, they made two mistakes, they ran zone coverage exclusively behind the blitz and they did not see to account for the hole in the zone from the blitzing player, meaning it seemed like the zones were set up as if they still had the extra guy back there... but they didn't he was blitzing.

 

The other thing I don't like about Flus' zones is he seems to tell the guys to keep moving the zones downfield as the play gets extended.  I can understand the reasoning for that but in the real world what happens is the QB scrambles to extend the play, the Colts zones keep moving down field, the QB dumps it off to a RB or TE and the nearest colts defender is 10-12 yards down field, that is going to be a win for the offense every time.

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4 hours ago, Flash7 said:

My personal assessment (I could be wrong):

 

I would not put my hopes on Turay. He missed a ton of time in college due to injuries, and now a ton of time in the NFL. I'm not certain he has the body or ability to avoid injuries.

we seem to draft a lot of fragile players

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3 hours ago, Jdubu said:

They had so many breakdowns in the scheme yesterday, and other games as well, but this one in particular, how can you not put this type of performance onto a coaching staff not preparing their guys well? It looked like the first time anyone seen the scheme yesterday. Are we practicing well? Enough? Too much? Too light? Need more film room or more field work? Something isn’t done well here. I think a higher view of what these coaching staff is or isn’t doing well needs looked at. Maybe Eberflus just isn’t the guy for this role idk but the more we play, the less impressed I become. 

 

Poor execution -- especially the level of breakdowns we saw yesterday -- is about everyone. Poor preparation, poor technique, they didn't line up properly, they got caught in bad calls, the players didn't communicate well on the field and didn't work well during plays... etc. (The tackling also wasn't good.)

 

I also think the youth and inexperience of the secondary showed up yesterday. Khari Willis and Malik Hooker looked like they have only played five or six games together. That doesn't excuse the awful performance, but I do think it's a factor.

 

It's also possible that we needed to mix up the coverages more than we did.

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19 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Zone coverage is great in certain circumstances.  The issue I had yesterday, when the Colts ran man coverage with the two CBs and nickle but the LBers and safeties played zone the D did well. but it seemed like when they blitzed, they made two mistakes, they ran zone coverage exclusively behind the blitz and they did not see to account for the hole in the zone from the blitzing player, meaning it seemed like the zones were set up as if they still had the extra guy back there... but they didn't he was blitzing.

 

The other thing I don't like about Flus' zones is he seems to tell the guys to keep moving the zones downfield as the play gets extended.  I can understand the reasoning for that but in the real world what happens is the QB scrambles to extend the play, the Colts zones keep moving down field, the QB dumps it off to a RB or TE and the nearest colts defender is 10-12 yards down field, that is going to be a win for the offense every time.

i was blaming hooker for playing too soft maybe it was the coach

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5 hours ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Where do you get your stats from?  I use Football Outsiders but they just break it down by offensive/defensive and special teams.  I like your break down better.

 

 

PFF

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what i don’t understand is why we FORCE our guys who struggle with zone to play ZONE!! everyone knows the easiest coverage to learn is Man coverage just play your damn man..mix in zone occasionally but sheesh our guys clearly can’t comprehend where they need to be so simplify it play press man and blitz  these are press corners and we play them off coverage just stupidity 

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Zone's don't suck, we should have played less zone against a QB that is known for having a lot of success against soft zones. We shouldn't have played as soft as we did in the zone, and we should have played more man at times. And we definitely should have blitzed more. Winston is one of the most sacked QBs in the league and not being more creative and blitzing more is a head scratcher. Our O

 

Turay not being here is not what killed us. 

 

Our O didn't really help the D either. After the D gave the O two short field situations to start the game, the O went 3 and out twice in a row. After another short field situation in the second half due to our D getting a turnover, we didn't do anything either (3 plays and a missed FG).

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51 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

And we definitely should have blitzed more. Winston is one of the most sacked QBs in the league and not being more creative and blitzing more is a head scratcher.

 

Fifteen blitzes out of 48 dropbacks. I'd like to check the third down numbers more carefully, but I feel like they blitzed a lot on third down. 

 

I think they just did a bad job in coverage. Winston was 10/14 against the blitz. 

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41 minutes ago, Superman said:

Fifteen blitzes out of 48 dropbacks. I'd like to check the third down numbers more carefully, but I feel like they blitzed a lot on third down. 

 

I think they just did a bad job in coverage. Winston was 10/14 against the blitz. 

Thanks SM. That's about 31%, and honestly I don't recall that many lol... Indy is one of the 5 least blitzing teams in the NFL. And even when they do blitz, it's not very creative or in numbers. We've averaged in the low 20s% IIRC for the year, while Baltimore almost blitzes 50% of downs, and teams like NE, Buf, Pitt, are averaging 30+%.

 

Do you recall in general who they sent (on the blitz), and did they switch the front DBs to more man when they blitzed?

 

Please let me know the 3rd down stats, and anything else you can glean. 

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7 hours ago, dodsworth said:

Good post but I would move both line  depths up to lines 3 and 4 and 

remove the FB position altogether. I don't believe we have had a full

time FB since Iron Head Hayward.

I trully believe with Jacoby showing he isnt QB that can win games on his own skill it should be a priority to be a powet run team first. Until we find our guy I think we need to be able to run on anyone to win. It works for SF, Min, and Bal. It would defenately work with our line. We could be hard yo stop with a great run blocking FB with some receiving ability. We could do alot from an I or wishbone formation with a FB or TE in the back feild with Mack. Running and passing could come on any down be hard to defend. When you dont have a Brees or Rodgers type QB a strong run game and strond D is how you win. Control the clock and out physical them every down.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks SM. That's about 31%, and honestly I don't recall that many lol... Indy is one of the 5 least blitzing teams in the NFL. And even when they do blitz, it's not very creative or in numbers. We've averaged in the low 20s% IIRC for the year, while Baltimore almost blitzes 50% of downs, and teams like NE, Buf, Pitt, are averaging 30+%.

 

Do you recall in general who they sent (on the blitz), and did they switch the front DBs to more man when they blitzed?

 

Please let me know the 3rd down stats, and anything else you can glean. 

 

We blitz a lot on third down. I'll do some charting for the Bucs game though.

 

 

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks SM. That's about 31%, and honestly I don't recall that many lol... Indy is one of the 5 least blitzing teams in the NFL. And even when they do blitz, it's not very creative or in numbers. We've averaged in the low 20s% IIRC for the year, while Baltimore almost blitzes 50% of downs, and teams like NE, Buf, Pitt, are averaging 30+%.

 

Do you recall in general who they sent (on the blitz), and did they switch the front DBs to more man when they blitzed?

 

Please let me know the 3rd down stats, and anything else you can glean. 

Not sure about the DBs question.  Hard to tell, but I don't recall seeing a ton of Man Cover, even on blitzes.  As far as who blitzed, it was usually Leonard.  Okereke and Khari I noticed on blitzes as well.  If I'm not mistaken, I also seem recall a blitz from the slot corner, but I could have mistaken Khari for a slot CB.  

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21 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

i was blaming hooker for playing too soft maybe it was the coach

Eh, I'm not a Malik Hooker fan.  I think he's out of position a lot.

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The biggest issue Sunday was miscommunication. I have seen a couple tweets today where hooker and Desir just didn’t communicate well. Desir was like pointing to Malik to be somewhere else.

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19 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The biggest issue Sunday was miscommunication. I have seen a couple tweets today where hooker and Desir just didn’t communicate well. Desir was like pointing to Malik to be somewhere else.


If they were communicating via Twitter, no wonder it all broke down on the field..

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3 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:


If they were communicating via Twitter, no wonder it all broke down on the field..

It was a video from all22. Now I can’t find it. I will post it as soon as I find it.

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58 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Eh, I'm not a Malik Hooker fan.  I think he's out of position a lot.

i do too, i dont get the hype for him

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9 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

i do too, i dont get the hype for him

I think hooker is good. Really good. Maybe elite. 

 

But... He can't stay healthy. So, who cares how talented a guy who stands on the sideline is?

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On 12/9/2019 at 1:24 PM, Chloe6124 said:

Zone doesn’t work when you can’t get pressure with 4.  

While I agree, I want to broaden it to read:

"Nothing works when you can't get pressure on a QB".

 

Winston has a career high 456 passing yards, Colts earn 1 sack.

 

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20 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks SM. That's about 31%, and honestly I don't recall that many lol... Indy is one of the 5 least blitzing teams in the NFL. And even when they do blitz, it's not very creative or in numbers. We've averaged in the low 20s% IIRC for the year, while Baltimore almost blitzes 50% of downs, and teams like NE, Buf, Pitt, are averaging 30+%.

 

Do you recall in general who they sent (on the blitz), and did they switch the front DBs to more man when they blitzed?

 

Please let me know the 3rd down stats, and anything else you can glean. 

 

I cant figure out what the defense was more creative last year. 

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10 hours ago, Superman said:

 

We blitz a lot on third down. I'll do some charting for the Bucs game though.

 

 

I just checked the updates on PFR. In total, we're the 9th least blitzing team in the league, and that is up if memory serves. If we are 10th most on 3rd down, sounds like we are completely predictable if we are also 9th least overall. I'm surprised by the Steelers numbers as they are 6th in total blitz % at 35.3%.

 

Here's the link.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/opp.htm

 

I used to have a site that broke out blitz by down per team, but that site tanked a few years ago. If you have any good sites, especially on D blitz %, package %, etc., would appreciate any help.

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9 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

Not sure about the DBs question.  Hard to tell, but I don't recall seeing a ton of Man Cover, even on blitzes.  As far as who blitzed, it was usually Leonard.  Okereke and Khari I noticed on blitzes as well.  If I'm not mistaken, I also seem recall a blitz from the slot corner, but I could have mistaken Khari for a slot CB.  

Thanks. I remember Leonard, and one DB (I think it was Khari too), but not much else.

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37 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I cant figure out what the defense was more creative last year. 

Not sure I understood your post. Did you mean "what did they do last year that was more creative"?

 

We weren't that creative last year either IMO. We blitzed under 20% last year, even less than this year. We were the 4th least blitzing team. It did "feel" that we played a bit more man last year, but not sure that's truth. 

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Just saw this stat. If Turay can stay healthy we might have our future DE. Didn’t realize Banogu was playing this well.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Just saw this stat. If Turay can stay healthy we might have our future DE. Didn’t realize Banogu was playing this well.

 

 

 

I know you love tweets, but take it with a grain of salt and context. Both Bangou and Turay have been mostly late down specialist, playing mostly around 20ish snaps a game. In other words, they are playing the blizting downs so we should expect their %s to be decent. If they were playing 3 downs, the % would be much lower. Not saying either can't develop, but "future" talk is a little early..

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8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I know you love tweets, but take it with a grain of salt and context. Both Bangou and Turay have been mostly late down specialist, playing mostly around 20ish snaps a game. In other words, they are playing the blizting downs so we should expect their %s to be decent. If they were playing 3 downs, the % would be much lower. Not saying either can't develop, but "future" talk is a little early..

Look you don’t have to put down everything. The point is they are showing promise. As young players that is what you want to see. Hopefully by the time sheard and Houston are gone they will have improved so they can play more downs.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Look you don’t have to put down everything. The point is they are showing promise. As young players that is what you want to see. Hopefully by the time sheard and Houston are gone they will have improved so they can play more downs.

This is not putting anyone down. It's adding context to what is a bit misleading in terms of numbers. It's very nice they did good on 3rd down, but what would be more accurate is showing % of only 3rd down plays across all players.

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"When your only tool is a hammer, everything gets treated like nails." The "one-size-fits-all" approach to defense doesn't work - especially only playing Cover 2. Showing a base scheme then transitioning out of it at the snap (if you have the talent and intelligence to do it) would be much more effective.

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On 12/9/2019 at 12:31 PM, jameszeigler834 said:

Zone sucks anyway.

It does against a good offense in today's NFL.  

  

It just isn't a winning defense anymore.

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16 hours ago, ricker182 said:

It does against a good offense in today's NFL.  

  

It just isn't a winning defense anymore.

Hasn't been for a long long time and if you have no pass rush it sucks against any offense.

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