Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Sign in to follow this  
Trace Pyott

Are we basically the jags when they had leftwich?

Recommended Posts

Ive heard many many people on here talking about how Ballard has built a pretty good team that is just missing a few key pieces especially Qb and that injuries derailed this team not lack of talent or coaching and in some ways I ageee but however....

 Even if this view is true,  this team reminds me eerily of those early 2000 teams led by Byron leftwich or the Vince young titan teams where had we not had Peyton and a humongous advantage at Qb we may have not won as many head to head games against those teams as we did. Is this an accurate analogy to this team?  Actually I change my mind, I think those teams may have had quite a bit more talent especially on the defensive side of the ball. The only thing I legitimately think this team has as a strength is it’s O line. Everything else is pretty avg. 

 

  

    My point to all of this is that I don’t think we are as close as many think we are. Those jags teams had arguably more talent than we do and look at what they achieved.  Look at how many teams are being held back because they have no qb or if they did , how many of those teams would we beat?  I don’t think very many to be honest. Sorry to rant because that is what this is, and I’m sorry to be debbie downer to those that think we have a competitive team right now, but I see this team as  mediocre at best and I think we have many more holes to this team than many want to admit.....maybe even coaching and gm but I’m not on that bandwagon yet.

 

 

     I guess I’m just scared because I know how hard it is to draft a stud qb or even harder win without a stud Qb.  We have been so blessed as colts fans I think many like myself are still in shock from lucks retirement.  Anyways hopefully things get better and next season is more of a success and less gut wrenching as this one was. 

  • Confused 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was more like when they had David Garrard at QB. Good running game, good chain mover and game manager at QB and can use his legs when needed, but not enough plays made by QB in the passing game and not enough makers in the passing game at his disposal. Thus, you have a middle of the pack team that, with the right breaks, can knock on the door for a playoff spot as a wild card team for its ceiling.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It was more like when they had David Garrard at QB. Good running game, good chain mover and game manager at QB and can use his legs when needed, but not enough plays made by QB in the passing game and not enough makers in the passing game at his disposal. Thus, you have a middle of the pack team that, with the right breaks, can knock on the door for a playoff spot as a wild card team for its ceiling.

Ya even Leftwich was better than brissett.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leftwich was a stud when healthy. Had a cannon. And that Jags team was nowhere near as talented as this team. This should've been a 12-4 season at the least. 

  • Like 2
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 4
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

Unless we are the 85 bears on defense ,Jb not the guy 


Not often is there a team who can win the SB with just about anybody playing QB. The 85 Bears were the exception. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MPStack said:


Not often is there a team who can win the SB with just about any playing QB. The 85 Bears were the exception. 

True but I'll say jimmy McMahon was still better than JB

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good, when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: 2006 Colts - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Anoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

 

 

 Moore and Houston are High caliber players.
  Many fans that looked through their Blue glasses had hopes that many of our players would play at a high level to take us to 10-11-12 wins.
 Any thing is possible. We easily could have been 6-1. Nothing wrong with getting pumped and dreaming big.
 Now we have seen the flipside. And for some it is hard to handle/accept.
 It is going to be a long wait for free agency and the draft. 
 But i have high expectations for both and will get pumped up again.
 Colts in 2020!! Yeehaa!

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

No... thats a Super star team. I'll break it down

QB: GOAT soon to be first ballot HoF
RB: Nominated to the HoF repeatedly, best RB we've ever had.
WR: 1 of those currently in the HoF, the other will likely get in.

TE: one of the best pure receiving TEs to ever play the game.

OL: was one of the best passing blocking OLs year in and year out for nearly a decade.

DEs: Two of the best EVER at their positions, soon to be HoF

Safeties: Two of the best, when healthy.

MLB;  one of the smartest to ever play the position

Those 1998-2011 Colt teams were STACKED But they were really the result of being stacked by good drafts from about 1997-2002.  Those 5 drafts made that team a monsterly good team.  Ballard's team has a lot of potential and I think can get there. IF we can get the QB thing figured out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

You hit the nail on head.....   Talent or differents makers from the skilled positions. When the Colts started the season by winning games every thing's was rosy, now the sked.  For me I'm not surprised.  With what the Colts have now the margin of error is slim for poor play during  stretches of games for them to overcome at this time.  The good team can overcome and win a game when they are not playing well in stretches of game.  Colts not there yet.  They are on the back end per say on  there rebuild.  The thing going forward is will the differences maker's be added per free agent or developed by drafting them.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

Exactly.  A lot of people sing Ballard's praises and talk about how talented the team is due to his drafting, but I don't see it.

 

I listed it last night.  There are 2 game changers on the team that he drafted in 3 years.  Nelson and Leonard.    Other than that?  There are a few good players but nothing outstanding.  And after that?  Scrubs.

 

So I really fail to see how this guy is a draft guru who has no need or want for Free Agency. 

 

OVERHYPED.

 

Tons of money available.  And what happens?  Nothing.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Islandecho said:

Exactly.  A lot of people sing Ballard's praises and talk about how talented the team is due to his drafting, but I don't see it.

 

I listed it last night.  There are 2 game changers on the team that he drafted in 3 years.  Nelson and Leonard.    Other than that?  There are a few good players but nothing outstanding.  And after that?  Scrubs.

 

So I really fail to see how this guy is a draft guru who has no need or want for Free Agency. 

 

OVERHYPED.

 

Tons of money available.  And what happens?  Nothing.

Overall, I'm not an Anti-Ballard guy at all. I'm also not a pro-Ballard guy either. I think I prefer to stay in the neutral corner and observe.

 

If I had to give an assessment, I think I would say that he has greatly lifted the floor of the team. I do not see any "Daniel Adongo's" on the team. The depth of the team is much improved.

 

But, like you'e said, not many real difference makers either. The ceiling isn't too high, so you have an average team.

 

I do believe that most GM's coming into the situation that Ballard walked into (Grigson left behind a team completely devoid of talent, but with a good cap situation), would have improved the team if they had a good draft philosophy, which Ballard does have.

 

Taking a talent deprived team to an average team isn't the most difficult thing, and Ballard has done a good job of this. Taking an average team to becoming a good or great team takes a ton of skill. We have to give Ballard time on this. We'll see if he has the ability soon enough.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

And for except two years, they were one and done.

  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ballard is a good personnel man. I think he has the pulse of the locker room and is getting players that fit in to that mold. I really like Reich as a couch and motivator. Luck retiring was a massive blow. Reich and Ballard may have not taken the jobs if Luck was not in the building.

With the injuries to some key positions, especially the ones that effect the QB position, have been hard to overcome. The QB position right now is mediocre to begin with. The expectations for this year was sky high until midway through preseason. Then everyone tried to minimize Lucks effect on the team and expected JB to be the MAN. Ballard and Reich are playing the cards that they were delt. They need to start looking for the next QB today! Don't wait to see if the present guy will improve. Give Kelly the ball and let him succeed or fail, doing nothing will cost them their jobs eventually. And I don't want to see that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

Unless we are the 85 bears on defense ,Jb not the guy 

Lol comment of the day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

True but I'll say jimmy McMahon was still better than JB

 

LOL, absolutely, the original SWAG!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MPStack said:


Not often is there a team who can win the SB with just about anybody playing QB. The 85 Bears were the exception. 

2000 Ravens with Trent Dilfer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chances are high that Ballard doesn't draft the next big QB. If he drafts QB's as well as he drafts receivers we are all in some trouble. 

Going from Manning to Luck was... Lucky.... 

I would imagine the Colts luck runs out when trying to draft the 3rd great qb in a row. Especially when you consider they aren't going to be drafting high in this draft, like they did with #1 picks Manning and Luck. 

Unfortunately I think the Manning days are going to be the high water mark for this organization. 

Going forward I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Colts organization looks closer to the jags teams of the past than the manning teams of the past. 

 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

Lets talk about the SuperBowl contending roster, where we struggled to make it through the playoffs.  It was never easy.

 

On the O, we did not have Pollard.  We had Addai instead of EJ.  Just cleaning up the accuracy.

 

We played basically the same defense as we have now.

 

We had Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden.

 

Look at it this way.  Jackson was taken in the first round, and started and contributed immediately.  Hayden was taken in the second round and did the same, but took a bit longer than Jackson.

 

Compare the contributions those 1st and 2nd rounders had compared to the contributions of Wilson and Ya-Sin.

 

Bob Sanders in the second round.  Malik Hooker in the first.  Compare their contributions and impact.   LOL.

 

Freeney  at pick 11 and Nelson at pick 6.  Who had/has greater impact on a game...even the opponents game planning?

 

WRs/TEs aren't even close.  We need 2 more first rounders just to have the same impact.

 

Addai vs Mack.  These are probably comparable.  Ballard did well here.  But we don't have a Dominick Rhodes.

 

Glenn/AC.  Probably a wash.

 

Saturday/Kelly.  Probably a wash.

 

Diem/Smith.  Probably a wash.

 

Scott/Glow.  Probably Scott.

 

Whomever/Leonard.  Leonard.

 

We aren't close in talent to the teams we had that contended.  We're not even materially better than we were 6 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

 

  We're not even materially better than we were 6 years ago.

 

we are 6th in rushing, grigsons teams never did better than 20th.  Luck reggie and mathis carried that team too, not anything grigson did besides the #1 pick 

 

also you wrote whomever vs leonard, when cato june was a pro bowler himself.  the manic would get the edge there but Cato june deserves at least being remembered as a good player 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

One super bowl in 20 years of Manning and Luck says different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

True but I'll say jimmy McMahon was still better than JB

Maybe you should take a look at the numbers before making that statement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe you should take a look at the numbers before making that statement. 

Maybe I don't care about numbers ,my eyes are my numbers .move on 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

One super bowl in 20 years of Manning and Luck says different. 

So your argument is that this is not a talented team? The HOF would argue against you.

 

I think you are on the outside on this one, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

The HOF would argue against you.

Not sure I follow your logic, Flash7. From what I am aware of, 88 is the only Colt player from that era who's in the HOF.

 

Granted, Manning's on his way, but he's the only other sure-fire HOFer. I think several others deserve it and hope they make it, but don't think they are locks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dogg63 said:

Not sure I follow your logic, Flash7. From what I am aware of, 88 is the only Colt player from that era who's in the HOF.

 

Granted, Manning's on his way, but he's the only other sure-fire HOFer. I think several others deserve it and hope they make it, but don't think they are locks.

I am of the impression (and I could be wrong) that Harrison, Wayne, Edge, and possibly Saturday also make it into the HOF.

 

Even if they don't, the fact that Harrison, Wayne, and Edge are HOF candidates speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I almost forgot we beat KC. That’s how bad we have been since. I could definitely see the Garrard led Jags producing a season like we are. That team wasn’t great, played up and down to their opponents. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/9/2019 at 10:52 AM, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

 

"That's not a knife.... THATS a knife..."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We'll never be the Jags.

 

They've drafted at the top for a decade and are still terrible. 

 

I'm kind of insulted being called the Jags . Lol

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The team isn’t as bad as many make it sound.  The issue is they got off to a rocking 5-2 start.  This significantly raised the expectations of many Colts fans.  The avalanche revolves around injuries, bad 4th quarter play, special teams, heck even mind boggling coaching decisions.

 

This team imo has shot themselves in the foot, well more like through the skull now, multiple times.  I would say at least 4 out of 7 losses comes as a direct result of the Colts killing themselves.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Can't figure out what's so "Sweet Jesus or Dear God" about surmising that it's possible that the state of the team and it's most important position being in flux is figuring into this potential retirement. I suppose we'd have to ask him with the caveat that he'd likely not throw anyone under the bus.   Could be one, or the other or a combination of both- or things we don't know about, but it won't be for the better if this team is without AC this year.    
    • If you have friends or family in Indy, slingbox is a great legal way to watch without a lot of expense (1X cost of the box). If you don't, and like tech stuff, check out Kodi and the sports addons. There are also several websites (not legal) that stream all the games.
    • Yeah I think he wants to win in general and the qb is a big factor in this   I think he will retire if he thinks it's a sub 500 team, maybe he would prefer a veteran over a rookie
    • I agree.  I think he'll come back too.    But I also think our QB situation makes every practice and every game seem more like work than fun.  If you're going to lose, have little hope of winning, that's kind of a different place than he has been with PM or Luck.  Even when they were injured, there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Every injury or pain becomes magnified when you're cause is hopeless, and he's probably not in a position for doing it all for the money.     I also wouldn't be surprised to see this drag on to where we get a better handle on the QB or roster, if Ballard allows it to drag on that far.  Frankly, I'm not sure that it didn't play a part in Luck's decision, thinking how much he would put himself at risk if he thought he had to carry the team.     Being dispassionately objective, what QB wouldn't want to go to the SB having to throw only 7 passes instead of 50?  LOL.  That current obscure leg injury seemed overblown as to its impact on his decision, but that's another topic.
    • Regarding watching preseason games outside local market..   I'm not in the local market, but I watch preseason games live via nfl.gamepass ($99 / year).  For regular season games, gamepass gives you the live local radio broadcast during the game, then you can watch the video broadcast right after the game ends.   My game day routine is to listen to the live radio broadcast (with gamepass) and follow the live game cast on either espn or nfl.com.  Then once the game is over I can watch the video broadcast of the game on gamepass (commercial breaks and halftime are removed from this feed).   
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...