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Are we basically the jags when they had leftwich?


Trace Pyott

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Ive heard many many people on here talking about how Ballard has built a pretty good team that is just missing a few key pieces especially Qb and that injuries derailed this team not lack of talent or coaching and in some ways I ageee but however....

 Even if this view is true,  this team reminds me eerily of those early 2000 teams led by Byron leftwich or the Vince young titan teams where had we not had Peyton and a humongous advantage at Qb we may have not won as many head to head games against those teams as we did. Is this an accurate analogy to this team?  Actually I change my mind, I think those teams may have had quite a bit more talent especially on the defensive side of the ball. The only thing I legitimately think this team has as a strength is it’s O line. Everything else is pretty avg. 

 

  

    My point to all of this is that I don’t think we are as close as many think we are. Those jags teams had arguably more talent than we do and look at what they achieved.  Look at how many teams are being held back because they have no qb or if they did , how many of those teams would we beat?  I don’t think very many to be honest. Sorry to rant because that is what this is, and I’m sorry to be debbie downer to those that think we have a competitive team right now, but I see this team as  mediocre at best and I think we have many more holes to this team than many want to admit.....maybe even coaching and gm but I’m not on that bandwagon yet.

 

 

     I guess I’m just scared because I know how hard it is to draft a stud qb or even harder win without a stud Qb.  We have been so blessed as colts fans I think many like myself are still in shock from lucks retirement.  Anyways hopefully things get better and next season is more of a success and less gut wrenching as this one was. 

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It was more like when they had David Garrard at QB. Good running game, good chain mover and game manager at QB and can use his legs when needed, but not enough plays made by QB in the passing game and not enough makers in the passing game at his disposal. Thus, you have a middle of the pack team that, with the right breaks, can knock on the door for a playoff spot as a wild card team for its ceiling.

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8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

It was more like when they had David Garrard at QB. Good running game, good chain mover and game manager at QB and can use his legs when needed, but not enough plays made by QB in the passing game and not enough makers in the passing game at his disposal. Thus, you have a middle of the pack team that, with the right breaks, can knock on the door for a playoff spot as a wild card team for its ceiling.

Ya even Leftwich was better than brissett.

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As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good, when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: 2006 Colts - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Anoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

 

 

 Moore and Houston are High caliber players.
  Many fans that looked through their Blue glasses had hopes that many of our players would play at a high level to take us to 10-11-12 wins.
 Any thing is possible. We easily could have been 6-1. Nothing wrong with getting pumped and dreaming big.
 Now we have seen the flipside. And for some it is hard to handle/accept.
 It is going to be a long wait for free agency and the draft. 
 But i have high expectations for both and will get pumped up again.
 Colts in 2020!! Yeehaa!

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34 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

No... thats a Super star team. I'll break it down

QB: GOAT soon to be first ballot HoF
RB: Nominated to the HoF repeatedly, best RB we've ever had.
WR: 1 of those currently in the HoF, the other will likely get in.

TE: one of the best pure receiving TEs to ever play the game.

OL: was one of the best passing blocking OLs year in and year out for nearly a decade.

DEs: Two of the best EVER at their positions, soon to be HoF

Safeties: Two of the best, when healthy.

MLB;  one of the smartest to ever play the position

Those 1998-2011 Colt teams were STACKED But they were really the result of being stacked by good drafts from about 1997-2002.  Those 5 drafts made that team a monsterly good team.  Ballard's team has a lot of potential and I think can get there. IF we can get the QB thing figured out

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47 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

You hit the nail on head.....   Talent or differents makers from the skilled positions. When the Colts started the season by winning games every thing's was rosy, now the sked.  For me I'm not surprised.  With what the Colts have now the margin of error is slim for poor play during  stretches of games for them to overcome at this time.  The good team can overcome and win a game when they are not playing well in stretches of game.  Colts not there yet.  They are on the back end per say on  there rebuild.  The thing going forward is will the differences maker's be added per free agent or developed by drafting them.

 

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1 hour ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

Exactly.  A lot of people sing Ballard's praises and talk about how talented the team is due to his drafting, but I don't see it.

 

I listed it last night.  There are 2 game changers on the team that he drafted in 3 years.  Nelson and Leonard.    Other than that?  There are a few good players but nothing outstanding.  And after that?  Scrubs.

 

So I really fail to see how this guy is a draft guru who has no need or want for Free Agency. 

 

OVERHYPED.

 

Tons of money available.  And what happens?  Nothing.

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2 minutes ago, Islandecho said:

Exactly.  A lot of people sing Ballard's praises and talk about how talented the team is due to his drafting, but I don't see it.

 

I listed it last night.  There are 2 game changers on the team that he drafted in 3 years.  Nelson and Leonard.    Other than that?  There are a few good players but nothing outstanding.  And after that?  Scrubs.

 

So I really fail to see how this guy is a draft guru who has no need or want for Free Agency. 

 

OVERHYPED.

 

Tons of money available.  And what happens?  Nothing.

Overall, I'm not an Anti-Ballard guy at all. I'm also not a pro-Ballard guy either. I think I prefer to stay in the neutral corner and observe.

 

If I had to give an assessment, I think I would say that he has greatly lifted the floor of the team. I do not see any "Daniel Adongo's" on the team. The depth of the team is much improved.

 

But, like you'e said, not many real difference makers either. The ceiling isn't too high, so you have an average team.

 

I do believe that most GM's coming into the situation that Ballard walked into (Grigson left behind a team completely devoid of talent, but with a good cap situation), would have improved the team if they had a good draft philosophy, which Ballard does have.

 

Taking a talent deprived team to an average team isn't the most difficult thing, and Ballard has done a good job of this. Taking an average team to becoming a good or great team takes a ton of skill. We have to give Ballard time on this. We'll see if he has the ability soon enough.

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7 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

And for except two years, they were one and done.

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Ballard is a good personnel man. I think he has the pulse of the locker room and is getting players that fit in to that mold. I really like Reich as a couch and motivator. Luck retiring was a massive blow. Reich and Ballard may have not taken the jobs if Luck was not in the building.

With the injuries to some key positions, especially the ones that effect the QB position, have been hard to overcome. The QB position right now is mediocre to begin with. The expectations for this year was sky high until midway through preseason. Then everyone tried to minimize Lucks effect on the team and expected JB to be the MAN. Ballard and Reich are playing the cards that they were delt. They need to start looking for the next QB today! Don't wait to see if the present guy will improve. Give Kelly the ball and let him succeed or fail, doing nothing will cost them their jobs eventually. And I don't want to see that.

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Chances are high that Ballard doesn't draft the next big QB. If he drafts QB's as well as he drafts receivers we are all in some trouble. 

Going from Manning to Luck was... Lucky.... 

I would imagine the Colts luck runs out when trying to draft the 3rd great qb in a row. Especially when you consider they aren't going to be drafting high in this draft, like they did with #1 picks Manning and Luck. 

Unfortunately I think the Manning days are going to be the high water mark for this organization. 

Going forward I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Colts organization looks closer to the jags teams of the past than the manning teams of the past. 

 

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22 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

Lets talk about the SuperBowl contending roster, where we struggled to make it through the playoffs.  It was never easy.

 

On the O, we did not have Pollard.  We had Addai instead of EJ.  Just cleaning up the accuracy.

 

We played basically the same defense as we have now.

 

We had Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden.

 

Look at it this way.  Jackson was taken in the first round, and started and contributed immediately.  Hayden was taken in the second round and did the same, but took a bit longer than Jackson.

 

Compare the contributions those 1st and 2nd rounders had compared to the contributions of Wilson and Ya-Sin.

 

Bob Sanders in the second round.  Malik Hooker in the first.  Compare their contributions and impact.   LOL.

 

Freeney  at pick 11 and Nelson at pick 6.  Who had/has greater impact on a game...even the opponents game planning?

 

WRs/TEs aren't even close.  We need 2 more first rounders just to have the same impact.

 

Addai vs Mack.  These are probably comparable.  Ballard did well here.  But we don't have a Dominick Rhodes.

 

Glenn/AC.  Probably a wash.

 

Saturday/Kelly.  Probably a wash.

 

Diem/Smith.  Probably a wash.

 

Scott/Glow.  Probably Scott.

 

Whomever/Leonard.  Leonard.

 

We aren't close in talent to the teams we had that contended.  We're not even materially better than we were 6 years ago.

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12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

 

  We're not even materially better than we were 6 years ago.

 

we are 6th in rushing, grigsons teams never did better than 20th.  Luck reggie and mathis carried that team too, not anything grigson did besides the #1 pick 

 

also you wrote whomever vs leonard, when cato june was a pro bowler himself.  the manic would get the edge there but Cato june deserves at least being remembered as a good player 

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23 hours ago, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

One super bowl in 20 years of Manning and Luck says different. 

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22 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

One super bowl in 20 years of Manning and Luck says different. 

So your argument is that this is not a talented team? The HOF would argue against you.

 

I think you are on the outside on this one, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

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15 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

The HOF would argue against you.

Not sure I follow your logic, Flash7. From what I am aware of, 88 is the only Colt player from that era who's in the HOF.

 

Granted, Manning's on his way, but he's the only other sure-fire HOFer. I think several others deserve it and hope they make it, but don't think they are locks.

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1 minute ago, Dogg63 said:

Not sure I follow your logic, Flash7. From what I am aware of, 88 is the only Colt player from that era who's in the HOF.

 

Granted, Manning's on his way, but he's the only other sure-fire HOFer. I think several others deserve it and hope they make it, but don't think they are locks.

I am of the impression (and I could be wrong) that Harrison, Wayne, Edge, and possibly Saturday also make it into the HOF.

 

Even if they don't, the fact that Harrison, Wayne, and Edge are HOF candidates speaks volumes, doesn't it?

 

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On 12/9/2019 at 10:52 AM, Flash7 said:

As far as talent is concerned, on offense, we have a good O-line, led by Q. Nelson, AC, Kelly and B. Smith. Doyle at TE is good, and that's about it really on offense.

 

T.Y. has had a below average year for a starting WR. I think his star is fading (back-to-back years of missing games due to injury). Our RB corps. with Mack is good when he's healthy, which is the problem.

 

On defense, we have D. Leonard. Done with that side of the ball.

 

We are far from being a talented team.

 

Here's a talented team: - Manning, E. James, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Marcus Pollard, Ryan Diem, Tarik Glenn, Jeff Saturday, Jake Scott, R. Lilja.

 

Defense: Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Gary Brackett, Antoine Bethea, Bob Sanders.

 

 

 

"That's not a knife.... THATS a knife..."

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The team isn’t as bad as many make it sound.  The issue is they got off to a rocking 5-2 start.  This significantly raised the expectations of many Colts fans.  The avalanche revolves around injuries, bad 4th quarter play, special teams, heck even mind boggling coaching decisions.

 

This team imo has shot themselves in the foot, well more like through the skull now, multiple times.  I would say at least 4 out of 7 losses comes as a direct result of the Colts killing themselves.

 

 

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