Brissett is last in passes more than 20 yards

[runthepost]

 

[csmopar]

I'm not surprised. Not only due to his own faults and the playcalling but with missing the top 6 WRs on the depth chart, all i can say is duh

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'm not surprised. Not only due to his own faults and the playcalling but with missing the top 6 WRs on the depth chart, all i can say is duh

Top 6 WRs?

 

TY for some games, Funchess and Campbell, who are the other three that make up the top 6 on the depth chart?

[IinD]

It's a bit misleading. 3 QB's considered 'franchise' level are also on that list. 

 

Along with a couple leaders in the category who are on losing teams so those 20+ yd passes don't seem to be helping their teams win.

 

[Flash7]

16 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'm not surprised. Not only due to his own faults and the playcalling but with missing the top 6 WRs on the depth chart, all i can say is duh

Imagine you're Reich and you've spent half of the season calling plays with receivers at different levels -- deep, intermediate, and short, and Brissett repeatedly throws short.

 

Do you continue calling those plays, or decide to play to Jacoby's strength -- short passing game. Not a quick short passing game, just a short passing game where Jacoby takes forever to decide what he wants to do, and then dumps it off late to the RB.

[csmopar]

27 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Top 6 WRs?

 

TY for some games, Funchess and Campbell, who are the other three that make up the top 6 on the depth chart?

I put the list in another thread but at some point or another, we have had the top 6 targets all out, plus others.  Yes, some overlap, some don't but the point stands.  That point being that we've had a revolving door at WR this year.  
 

As for who they were.

TY
Funchess
Campbell
Rogers
Fountain
Ebron.

Those guys were at the top of the depth chart for pass catchers.

[Stephen]

13 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I put the list in another thread but at some point or another, we have had the top 6 targets all out, plus others.  Yes, some overlap, some don't but the point stands.  That point being that we've had a revolving door at WR this year.  
 

As for who they were.

TY
Funchess
Campbell
Rogers
Fountain
Ebron.

Those guys were at the top of the depth chart for pass catchers.

And and cain was cut

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

And and cain was cut

There is that too.

[DougDew]

I guess we're going to beat this horse to death in multiple threads.  Just to summarize comments:

 

1) JB is obviously conservative or lacks confidence in his ability to throw longer, perhaps knowing he's not good at it. 

 

2) Within those stats, what teams also had quality receiving options?  I would bet that if there was an informed ranking of the NFL's "best" receiving squad....measured by the players who have actually played and not just rostered (accounting for TYs absence) I would wager that the Colts receiving corps would rank in the 30's, if not dead last.   You can blame the ranking on the QB, but whatever judgmental method there is to measure receivers, I'd bet the Colts would be judged very low.

 

3) Most of the QBs ranked high on that list are experienced NFL QBs.  We'd have to look closer as to why Minshew and Murray rank highly, but it probably has to do with circumstances. 

 

4) On the bottom of that list, JB seems to be in good company with some very good QBs that a lot of teams would want.

 

5) The first 8 games had a quick short passing game.  Since TY's, JB's, and Mack's injuries, it has become more sluggish.

 

6). Reich's old team, Wentz/Philly, is not ranked highly.  There may simply be a philosophical bent towards favoring a ball control possession passing game and not a chunk/quick scoring passing game, along with its risks of incompletions and loosing possession of the ball by punting.   

 

[Flash7]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I guess we're going to beat this horse to death in multiple threads.  Just to summarize comments:

 

1) JB is obviously conservative or lacks confidence in his ability to throw longer, perhaps knowing he's not good at it. 

 

2) Within those stats, what teams also had quality receiving options?  I would bet that if there was an informed ranking of the NFL's "best" receiving squad....measured by the players who have actually played and not just rostered (accounting for TYs absence) I would wager that the Colts receiving corps would rank in the 30's, if not dead last.   You can blame the ranking on the QB, but whatever judgmental method there is to measure receivers, I'd bet the Colts would be judged very low.

 

3) Most of the QBs ranked high on that list are experienced NFL QBs.  We'd have to look closer as to why Minshew and Murray rank highly, but it probably has to do with circumstances. 

 

4) On the bottom of that list, JB seems to be in good company with some very good QBs that a lot of teams would want.

 

5) The first 8 games had a quick short passing game.  Since TY's, JB's, and Mack's injuries, it has become more sluggish.

 

6). Reich's old team, Wentz/Philly, is not ranked highly.  There may simply be a philosophical bent towards favoring a ball control possession passing game and not a chunk/quick scoring passing game, along with its risks of incompletions and loosing possession of the ball by punting.   

 

I think both scenarios are true:

 

1. JB is a safe, conservative, QB. He has not shown the ability to throw  intermediate and deep with regular success.

 

2. The receiving corps has been decimated by injuries.

 

IMO, #1 is still an issue, regardless of #2. JB started the season with a healthy receiving corps and displayed the same tendencies, averaging 6.6 YPC. 

 

The receiving corps being injured, no doubt, has been a hindrance and clouds the evaluation process for JB. Nonetheless, in my mind, it's pretty clear who JB is by now.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Flash7 said:

I think both scenarios are true:

 

1. JB is a safe, conservative, QB. He has not shown the ability to throw  intermediate and deep with regular success.

 

2. The receiving corps has been decimated by injuries.

 

IMO, #1 is still an issue, regardless of #2. JB started the season with a healthy receiving corps and displayed the same tendencies, averaging 6.6 YPC. 

 

The receiving corps being injured, no doubt, has been a hindrance and clouds the evaluation process for JB. Nonetheless, in my mind, it's pretty clear who JB is by now.

I wouldn't say injuries to the receiving corps, I'd say quality of it regardless of injury.  As I've mentioned in other threads, the only receiving corps injury that matters is TY.  The revolving door of other receivers getting PT is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.

 

That's not an excuse.  But its something to evaluate when looking at stats.

[Flash7]

6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I wouldn't say injuries to the receiving corps, I'd say quality of it regardless of injury.  As I've mentioned in other threads, the only receiving corps injury that matters is TY.  The revolving door of other receivers getting PT is just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.

 

That's not an excuse.  But its something to evaluate when looking at stats.

I agree that the quality of the receiving corps is poor. But, for the recent Colts, it's on par.

 

Aside from T.Y. Luck had success with guys like Whalen, Brazil, Dorsett, Moncrief, Hey-Bay, and last year'r crew, which included Ryan Grant, Chester Rogers, Pascal, Marcus Johnson, and Fountain.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, Flash7 said:

I agree that the quality of the receiving corps is poor. But, for the recent Colts, it's on par.

 

Aside from T.Y. Luck had success with guys like Whalen, Brazil, Dorsett, Moncrief, Hey-Bay, and last year'r crew, which included Ryan Grant, Chester Rogers, Pascal, Marcus Johnson, and Fountain.

Hey, I have said many times that we have had a below average, if not far below average, receiving corps since Wayne went down with an ACL.  Most of Luck's career was characterized by having to work with subpar skilled-position talent.  JB needs above par talent, IMO.  Most QBs benefit from it.

 

Even Manning had Harrison, Wayne, and Clark....three first rounders....with Edge and then Addai as RBs, both first rounders too.  Luck never had that quality of talent around him, and JB has had less than that this year, yet he needs it the most.

[crazycolt1]

Another bash Brissett thread? Like 5 isn't enough?

[Superman]

46 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I guess we're going to beat this horse to death in multiple threads.  Just to summarize comments:

 

1) JB is obviously conservative or lacks confidence in his ability to throw longer, perhaps knowing he's not good at it. 

 

2) Within those stats, what teams also had quality receiving options?  I would bet that if there was an informed ranking of the NFL's "best" receiving squad....measured by the players who have actually played and not just rostered (accounting for TYs absence) I would wager that the Colts receiving corps would rank in the 30's, if not dead last.   You can blame the ranking on the QB, but whatever judgmental method there is to measure receivers, I'd bet the Colts would be judged very low.

 

3) Most of the QBs ranked high on that list are experienced NFL QBs.  We'd have to look closer as to why Minshew and Murray rank highly, but it probably has to do with circumstances. 

 

4) On the bottom of that list, JB seems to be in good company with some very good QBs that a lot of teams would want.

 

5) The first 8 games had a quick short passing game.  Since TY's, JB's, and Mack's injuries, it has become more sluggish.

 

6). Reich's old team, Wentz/Philly, is not ranked highly.  There may simply be a philosophical bent towards favoring a ball control possession passing game and not a chunk/quick scoring passing game, along with its risks of incompletions and loosing possession of the ball by punting.   

 

 

It's actually really simple. JB isn't good at throwing the ball down the field, and he and the staff know it.

 

You keep presenting this argument that throwing downfield isn't valuable, and that's just dead wrong. But that's a discussion for another day.

 

You and others also keep presenting this argument that, because the receivers aren't the guys the team expected to have at the beginning of the year, it's not possible to be productive throwing down the field. But there's a reason players wear the same color uniform in games, and we have ocular proof of receivers open in various spots on the field, including down the field, but not being targeted. The first prerequisite for downfield production is receivers getting open; the second is the QB throwing the ball. The first is happening, the second is not.

 

We don't need to muddy the waters on this, even though that's your MO. It's clear cut, plain and obvious. JB has bad downfield numbers because he's not good at that part of the game.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Imagine you're Reich and you've spent half of the season calling plays with receivers at different levels -- deep, intermediate, and short, and Brissett repeatedly throws short.

 

Do you continue calling those plays, or decide to play to Jacoby's strength -- short passing game. Not a quick short passing game, just a short passing game where Jacoby takes forever to decide what he wants to do, and then dumps it off late to the RB.

 

Or maybe you just starting running it 70% of the time.

[shasta519]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's actually really simple. JB isn't good at throwing the ball down the field, and he and the staff know it.

 

You keep presenting this argument that throwing downfield isn't valuable, and that's just dead wrong. But that's a discussion for another day.

 

You and others also keep presenting this argument that, because the receivers aren't the guys the team expected to have at the beginning of the year, it's not possible to be productive throwing down the field. But there's a reason players wear the same color uniform in games, and we have ocular proof of receivers open in various spots on the field, including down the field, but not being targeted. The first prerequisite for downfield production is receivers getting open; the second is the QB throwing the ball. The first is happening, the second is not.

 

We don't need to muddy the waters on this, even though that's your MO. It's clear cut, plain and obvious. JB has bad downfield numbers because he's not good at that part of the game.

 

Great post. And I would give you another "upvote" just for the use of "ocular"...but I can't.

[Coffeedrinker]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

I put the list in another thread but at some point or another, we have had the top 6 targets all out, plus others.  Yes, some overlap, some don't but the point stands.  That point being that we've had a revolving door at WR this year.  
 

As for who they were.

TY
Funchess
Campbell
Rogers
Fountain
Ebron.

Those guys were at the top of the depth chart for pass catchers.

This is all a real stretch.  You cannot count Fountain he didn't make it out of training camp and he may have had the same type of impact as Cain.  Ebron is not a WR and you can't blame JBs poor deep throw QB rating on his injury because he has missed one game in these stats.

 

Same thing with Rogers... he's been there all season and just got hurt a few days ago, his injury is not why JB struggles with the deep pass.  Lastly with TY and Campbell, JB has not had great deep passing when they have played but it would be interesting to do a comparison of JB's 20 yard QB rating with TY and without.  I would guess it's not that different.

 

So, in conclusion.  JBs poor rating over 20 yards can't be blamed on the loss of the top 6 WRs or pass catchers (if you want to now change the term), because they have not been missing the entire year and there hasn't been a huge drop off after some got injured.

 

 

[csmopar]

11 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This is all a real stretch.  You cannot count Fountain he didn't make it out of training camp and he may have had the same type of impact as Cain.  Ebron is not a WR and you can't blame JBs poor deep throw QB rating on his injury because he has missed one game in these stats.

 

Same thing with Rogers... he's been there all season and just got hurt a few days ago, his injury is not why JB struggles with the deep pass.  Lastly with TY and Campbell, JB has not had great deep passing when they have played but it would be interesting to do a comparison of JB's 20 yard QB rating with TY and without.  I would guess it's not that different.

 

So, in conclusion.  JBs poor rating over 20 yards can't be blamed on the loss of the top 6 WRs or pass catchers (if you want to now change the term), because they have not been missing the entire year and there hasn't been a huge drop off after some got injured.

 

 

I'm not saying that is the only reason by any stretch.  I'm simply saying it does have an effect to some degree. To me, i see it as a combination of JB's play, the play calling AND the constant revolving door at WR.  Ask any OC, they will tell you that timing and trust at a huge part of an O's success.  You can't have that when you have that many revolving pieces.  And that WILL affect QBR

[shasta519]

37 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

This is all a real stretch.  You cannot count Fountain he didn't make it out of training camp and he may have had the same type of impact as Cain.  Ebron is not a WR and you can't blame JBs poor deep throw QB rating on his injury because he has missed one game in these stats.

 

Same thing with Rogers... he's been there all season and just got hurt a few days ago, his injury is not why JB struggles with the deep pass.  Lastly with TY and Campbell, JB has not had great deep passing when they have played but it would be interesting to do a comparison of JB's 20 yard QB rating with TY and without.  I would guess it's not that different.

 

So, in conclusion.  JBs poor rating over 20 yards can't be blamed on the loss of the top 6 WRs or pass catchers (if you want to now change the term), because they have not been missing the entire year and there hasn't been a huge drop off after some got injured.

 

 

 

Yeah...we can't keep using Funchess as an excuse. He's been out since Week 1...and people weren't missing him when JB was still getting plenty of praise weeks later. But now that JB has regressed...the absence of Funchess is suddenly impactful.

[Coffeedrinker]

8 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yeah...we can't keep using Funchess as an excuse. He's been out since Week 1...and people weren't missing him when JB was still getting plenty of praise weeks later. But now that JB has regressed...the absence of Funchess is suddenly impactful.

Good point.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

44 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I'm not saying that is the only reason by any stretch.  I'm simply saying it does have an effect to some degree. To me, i see it as a combination of JB's play, the play calling AND the constant revolving door at WR.  Ask any OC, they will tell you that timing and trust at a huge part of an O's success.  You can't have that when you have that many revolving pieces.  And that WILL affect QBR

Yes, football is a team game and when one group suffers a setback it affects all tangent groups.  That is a given.  But the point is you cannot say JB has some bad numbers because of missing those players because he has not been missing those players all year.  because a) he hasn't been missing those players all year and b) he didn't have great downfield passing early in the year.

[Jdubu]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

I guess we're going to beat this horse to death in multiple threads.  Just to summarize comments:

 

1) JB is obviously conservative or lacks confidence in his ability to throw longer, perhaps knowing he's not good at it. 

 

2) Within those stats, what teams also had quality receiving options?  I would bet that if there was an informed ranking of the NFL's "best" receiving squad....measured by the players who have actually played and not just rostered (accounting for TYs absence) I would wager that the Colts receiving corps would rank in the 30's, if not dead last.   You can blame the ranking on the QB, but whatever judgmental method there is to measure receivers, I'd bet the Colts would be judged very low.

 

3) Most of the QBs ranked high on that list are experienced NFL QBs.  We'd have to look closer as to why Minshew and Murray rank highly, but it probably has to do with circumstances. 

 

4) On the bottom of that list, JB seems to be in good company with some very good QBs that a lot of teams would want.

 

5) The first 8 games had a quick short passing game.  Since TY's, JB's, and Mack's injuries, it has become more sluggish.

 

6). Reich's old team, Wentz/Philly, is not ranked highly.  There may simply be a philosophical bent towards favoring a ball control possession passing game and not a chunk/quick scoring passing game, along with its risks of incompletions and loosing possession of the ball by punting.   

 

Two things concern me with JB and this team. The playcalling and execution have been horrific most of the season regardless of the pass catchers. Bowen had a stat on his podcast yesterday that talked about QBR by the quarters.  JB early in season was passing at a 100+ for the first which is considered really high level. Conversely, he was throwing 65ish in the 4th Q. These stats overlapped for 2017 as well which shows us a pattern. Good when scripted plays come out bad when you need him to perform using his own skills. Not going to just pile on JB, he just is who he is.

 

The second aspect though has been Reichs playcalling. It’s not been the greatest and I feel like he hasn’t always created plans this year that helps JB look better than he is. Maybe nothing he gameplans at this point can help outside of hoping the run game can consume 75% of the game and succeed while letting JB dump off passes and be safe with the ball. Idk I would like to see Reich create better plays for what we have left at this point though. 

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Another bash Brissett thread? Like 5 isn't enough?

If you don’t end on an even number of JB bashing posts, it’s bad juju man lol

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's actually really simple. JB isn't good at throwing the ball down the field, and he and the staff know it.

 

You keep presenting this argument that throwing downfield isn't valuable, and that's just dead wrong. But that's a discussion for another day.

 

You and others also keep presenting this argument that, because the receivers aren't the guys the team expected to have at the beginning of the year, it's not possible to be productive throwing down the field. But there's a reason players wear the same color uniform in games, and we have ocular proof of receivers open in various spots on the field, including down the field, but not being targeted. The first prerequisite for downfield production is receivers getting open; the second is the QB throwing the ball. The first is happening, the second is not.

 

We don't need to muddy the waters on this, even though that's your MO. It's clear cut, plain and obvious. JB has bad downfield numbers because he's not good at that part of the game.

How in the world did you post get so many likes.  There must be a blind following or something.

 

All of my points are relevant to the stats presented.   

 

Some folks have an opinion of JB, that he is not the answer. They make the same point, over and over, that he misses receivers down field.  And that single point means he is not the answer. 

 

Same point.  Same broad conclusion based upon that singular point.  We get it.

 

I guess the single stats about throwing downfield being linked to being "the answer" means that we know by looking at the first half stats of this season that  Allen, Goff, Ryan, and Rivers, are not "the answer's" for their teams, and that Minshew and Murray are "the answer"'s for their teams. 

 

IMO, If folks have a desire to make a decision about JB, they should probably look at a multitude of things, and use their judgement.  Not just the same thing over and over, then show stats to illustrate what we already know by  watching the games.

 

To the bolded:  I know.  It was my first point.  

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I am not surprised, that was my knock on Jacoby, before the season started, in the SD game the Cots seemed to address that issue as the season has gone on though, he now looks to throw shorter passes again?

[Coffeedrinker]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How in the world did you post get so many likes.  There must be a blind following or something.

 

All of my points are relevant to the stats presented.   

Oh man, this is hilarious.  Whining because one post gets a lot of likes and your post didn't.  I especially like how you try to completely dismiss the likes as people having a "blind following" of Superman.  In your narrow sighted opinion it could not possibly be because his post was, you know, better more thought out than your post.  Do you need a therapy dog?

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Some folks have an opinion of JB, and constantly point to stats to make it. They make the same point, over and over, that he misses receivers down field.  And that it means he is not the answer.  Same point, same conclusion based upon that singular point.  We get it.

Some people do that is true.  Just like some people go around to all the different posts that shows multiple ways that JB is not the one and points to one specific item and say that is not relevant because that is only one item.

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Outside of the points I made, I guess the linkage between not throwing downfield being linked to being "the answer" means that  Allen, Goff, Ryan, and Rivers, are not the answer, and we already know through half the season that Minshew and Murray are "the answer"'s for their teams. 

Like many times, you condense and paraphrase what other people have said and then draw and outrageous conclusion from your own wording of what other people said.

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

IMO, If folks have a desire to make a decision about JB, they should probably look at a multitude of things, and use their judgement. 

What makes you think we don't?  I don't think JB is the answer for the Colts at QB.  I've said that and stated reasons for that long before people started posting stats showing JB's lack of ability to throw deep.

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Constantly harping on one aspect and then bringing up stats that he doesn't throw downfield (which we already know by watching the games) is a tactic to simply look smart while not really advancing the discussion. 

 

I know you like to think you are the only one that looks below the surface but that is just not true.  Many members on this forum base their opinions on a multitude of items not just a single item.  @Superman is one of the best, if not the best on this forum at looking at all sides of an issue and drawing well reason conclusions.  Some just like to be contrary to stir the pot.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh man, this is hilarious.  Whining because one post gets a lot of likes and your post didn't.  I especially like how you try to completely dismiss the likes as people having a "blind following" of Superman.  In your narrow sighted opinion it could not possibly be because his post was, you know, better more thought out than your post.  Do you need a therapy dog?

Some people do that is true.  Just like some people go around to all the different posts that shows multiple ways that JB is not the one and points to one specific item and say that is not relevant because that is only one item.

Like many times, you condense and paraphrase what other people have said and then draw and outrageous conclusion from your own wording of what other people said.

What makes you think we don't?  I don't think JB is the answer for the Colts at QB.  I've said that and stated reasons for that long before people started posting stats showing JB's lack of ability to throw deep.

I know you like to think you are the only one that looks below the surface but that is just not true.  Many members on this forum base their opinions on a multitude of items not just a single item.  @Superman is one of the best, if not the best on this forum at looking at all sides of an issue and drawing well reason conclusions.  Some just like to be contrary to stir the pot.

Calm down.

 

JB does not throw the ball down field.  He hasn't done it all season.

 

We were 6 and 2 when he wasn't throwing the ball down field.

 

We are now 6-6 when he still isn't throwing the ball down field.

 

I never said it wasn't important.

 

What I say is that it is not the singular basis for determining that he is not "the answer"

 

What about his short game accuracy?  Does that matter? What was it the first half of the season, and what has it been the last three games?

 

Does anybody know by watching the games?  Or do they have to go mine some data before they know?

 

[hoosierhawk]

7 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Oh man, this is hilarious.  Whining because one post gets a lot of likes and your post didn't.  I especially like how you try to completely dismiss the likes as people having a "blind following" of Superman.  In your narrow sighted opinion it could not possibly be because his post was, you know, better more thought out than your post.  Do you need a therapy dog?

Some people do that is true.  Just like some people go around to all the different posts that shows multiple ways that JB is not the one and points to one specific item and say that is not relevant because that is only one item.

Like many times, you condense and paraphrase what other people have said and then draw and outrageous conclusion from your own wording of what other people said.

What makes you think we don't?  I don't think JB is the answer for the Colts at QB.  I've said that and stated reasons for that long before people started posting stats showing JB's lack of ability to throw deep.

I know you like to think you are the only one that looks below the surface but that is just not true.  Many members on this forum base their opinions on a multitude of items not just a single item.  @Superman is one of the best, if not the best on this forum at looking at all sides of an issue and drawing well reason conclusions.  Some just like to be contrary to stir the pot.

Very good post. The bolded is so true and a great reflection on one of the posters in particular. Good luck trying to make your points with him.

[SteelCityColt]

29 minutes ago, DougDew said:

How in the world did you post get so many likes. 

Occam’s razor. 
 

But do please keep being doing you, it’s a good salve to watching this season knowing what could have been. 

[CanuckColt]

Nothing surprising here.

Reich has Brissett throw short crossing routes all the time and hopes for YAC yards. If Brissett throws longer, he is just as likely to throw an INT as a completion.  Reich just has Brissett do what Brissett is capable of doing.

 

[Coffeedrinker]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Calm down.

I don't need to calm down... unless you mean I need to quit laughing.

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

JB does not throw the ball down field.  He hasn't done it all season.

 

We were 6 and 2 when he wasn't throwing the ball down field.

 

We are now 6-6 when he still isn't throwing the ball down field.

 

I never said it wasn't important.

 

What I say is that it is not the singular basis for determining that he is not "the answer"

No one else has said that it IS the singular basis for determining that he is not "the answer".  So the fact that you feel the need to point out that it is not is pretty ridiculous.

 

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What about his short game accuracy?  Does that matter? 

What was it the first half of the season, and what has it been the last three games?

By all means you should start a thread about JBs short game accuracy and compare his games throughout the season.  This thread is about his passing game over 20 yards so it's not really relevant.

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Does anybody know by watching the games?  Or do they have to go mine some data before they know?

 

I'm sure people do it differently.  Some people watch games and draw conclusions, some analyze stats and draw conclusions, some use a combination of both.  Some people just act like they know everything and that no one is capable of  drawing their own conclusions.

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

Nothing surprising here.

Reich has Brissett throw short crossing routes all the time and hopes for YAC yards. If Brissett throws longer, he is just as likely to throw an INT as a completion.  Reich just has Brissett do what Brissett is capable of doing.

 

While I do think there are questions to be asked about the play calling I also, sadly, think this has some truth to it.

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't need to calm down... unless you mean I need to quit laughing.

No one else has said that it IS the singular basis for determining that he is not "the answer".  So the fact that you feel the need to point out that it is not is pretty ridiculous.

 

By all means you should start a thread about JBs short game accuracy and compare his games throughout the season.  This thread is about his passing game over 20 yards so it's not really relevant.

I'm sure people do it differently.  Some people watch games and draw conclusions, some analyze stats and draw conclusions, some use a combination of both.  Some people just act like they know everything and that no one is capable of  drawing their own conclusions.

Nats.

 

Outside of a few, all of the critics of JB are pointing to the same thing.  One thing. And the words "down field" are in it.

 

What is Reich's offensive philosophy compared to some of the others on the list?

 

What is JB's strengths compared to QBs who run other offenses?

 

Do you think maybe that synergy is why JB is here in the first place, or at least a major factor?

 

No.  I haven't read one person, not one, talk about JBs accuracy in the short game.

 

Have you seen stats on that?  Who posted them?  Who has shown they've gotten out of the Parrot Cage and even thought about it?

 

Jordan Love has shown to be a very accurate short passer.  Do you think there is a correlation between that and Ballard scouting him?

 

[Coffeedrinker]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

While I do think there are questions to be asked about the play calling I also, sadly, think this has some truth to it.

Probably so.  And what's happened is coaches have watched the film and they have seen JBs hesitancy to throw the ball down field even when receivers are open, so they play more zone coverage and keep those zones closer to the LOS which means tighter windows to throw into which then makes JB hesitate more, I believe this is a big reason why we have seen the average time of snap to throw for JB increase as the year has progressed.  Combined with some less talented WRs who are not as good at recognizing and moving to the open spot in the zone you get a wildly inconsistent passing game that cannot be relied upon to win games.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

I don't need to calm down... unless you mean I need to quit laughing.

No one else has said that it IS the singular basis for determining that he is not "the answer".  So the fact that you feel the need to point out that it is not is pretty ridiculous.

 

By all means you should start a thread about JBs short game accuracy and compare his games throughout the season.  This thread is about his passing game over 20 yards so it's not really relevant.

I'm sure people do it differently.  Some people watch games and draw conclusions, some analyze stats and draw conclusions, some use a combination of both.  Some people just act like they know everything and that no one is capable of  drawing their own conclusions.

I am to the point where I go off of eye ball test the most. That just comes from watching the game for 42 years. I love stats though. I use them when ranking the best QB's of all-time along with wins, leadership, etc.. There are a few posters on here when they break out stats in a long post and I feel like this , there are a few people on here that are a lot smarter than me and make great points.

[Coffeedrinker]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Nats.

 

Outside of a few, all of the critics of JB are pointing to the same thing.  One thing. And the words "down field" are in it.

Not true

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

What is Reich's offensive philosophy compared to some of the others on the list?

Enlighten us.

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

What is JB's strengths compared to QBs who run other offenses?

Enlighten us.

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Do you think maybe that synergy is why JB is here in the first place, or at least a major factor?

I guess that depends on your definition of synergy.  Yes, I think JB is a Colt because they were desperate for a QB in 2017 and they were able to get him.  Then they found out he is a good leader and a benefit for the starting QB.  I think the Colts were lucky he was the one with the Colts when Luck quit on the team.  None of that has anything to do with his passing of 20+ yards or whether or not he is "the answer"

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

No.  I haven't read one person, not one, talk about JBs accuracy in the short game.

So?

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Have you seen stats on that?  Who posted them?  Who has shown they've gotten out of the Parrot Cage and even thought about it?

I suggested you start a thread on it.  I want you to enlighten us with your vast knowledge and show how you can look at all the variables and bring them together into something that makes sense.  All you do is complain that other posters don't look at all the factors that go into the stats.  I've never seen you actually discuss all the variables and how that effects the play of anyone.

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Jordan Love has shown to be a very accurate short passer.  Do you think there is a correlation between that and Ballard scouting him?

 

Ahh, the infamous change of subject.

[hoosierhawk]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am to the point where I go off of eye ball test the most. That just comes from watching the game for 42 years. I love stats though. I use them when ranking the best QB's of all-time along with wins, leadership, etc.. There are a few posters on here when they break out stats in a long post and I feel like this , there are a few people on here that are a lot smarter than me and make great points.

Problem with only the eyeball test 2006 is you would draw only the conclusion that it is strickly play calling for the short passing game. If you look into his stats thru college and pros you find out the reason for the play calling. I know you know this but some other people cannot grasp it.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Not true

Enlighten us.

Enlighten us.

I guess that depends on your definition of synergy.  Yes, I think JB is a Colt because they were desperate for a QB in 2017 and they were able to get him.  Then they found out he is a good leader and a benefit for the starting QB.  I think the Colts were lucky he was the one with the Colts when Luck quit on the team.  None of that has anything to do with his passing of 20+ yards or whether or not he is "the answer"

So?

I suggested you start a thread on it.  I want you to enlighten us with your vast knowledge and show how you can look at all the variables and bring them together into something that makes sense.  All you do is complain that other posters don't look at all the factors that go into the stats.  I've never seen you actually discuss all the variables and how that effects the play of anyone.

Ahh, the infamous change of subject.

 

Based upon the JB critic echo chamber process, including the enlightening stats presented in this thread, I have now concluded that Gordon Minshew is the answer to the JAGS QB question.  

 

 

[Stephen]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

Based upon the JB critic echo chamber process, including the enlightening stats presented in this thread, I have now concluded that Gordon Minshew is the answer to the JAGS QB question.  

 

 

Minshew can be the answer for the jags if they get a better oline and wrs

[Stephen]

As far as Brissett  goes. During  the off season he needs to practice  throwing  down the field. It will  be hard to compete  with our divisional  foes  and other top teams if we have a bad deep passing attack  year in and out