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BleedBlue4Shoe86

Finding the Franchise

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So I wanted to lay this out for the forum in regards to drafting a QB and moving forward from Brissett. I think we can all agree that Brissett is not elite but he could be a very good starter in the NFL. I know we argue that trying to find the next franchise QB is very difficult so should we not try. I am a known Brissett fan but that aside, look at some the teams trying to find their next great quarterback and how long it can take to even find one that could go to the playoffs. 

 

Below is the team and their last great quarterback (in parentheses next to the last great QB is the year they retired. The next number is the year the next somewhat okay QB was drafted or acquired)

 

49ers- Young (99)- Garcia (99)- Garapollo(17)

 

Broncos- Elway (98)- Manning(12)- still looking

 

Redskins-Theismann (85)- RG3(12)- still looking

 

Bears-McMahon (88)- Grossman(03)- Trubisky(17)

 

Browns-Kosar (93)- Mayfield(18)

 

Steelers-Bradshaw (83)- O’Donnell(90)- Roethlisberger(04)

 

Cowboys-Aikmen (00)- Romo (03)- Prescott(16)

 

Giants-Simms (93)- Manning(04)- Jones(19)

 

Buffalo-Kelly (96)- Bledsoe(02)- Allen(18)

 

Miami-Marino (99)- Tannehill(12)- still looking

 

Tennessee-McNair (05)- Young (06)- Mariota(15)- still looking

 

Also just look at the list of QB drafted that were bust recently

Ponder, Locker,Manuel, Russell, Losman, Couch, Manziel, Quinn, Boller, Leftwich, Leinart, Beck, Frye, Harrington, Kizer, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Lynch

 

This is all to saw, we as Colts fan were blessed to go from Manning to Luck but that very rarely happens. We might want to consider we have a good QB and could have a great team around him. We are currently 19th in offense (with a huge lack of player makers on offense) and 13th in defense. If we aren’t careful, we could end up in the QB wasteland. 

 

Just saying. 

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2 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

So I wanted to lay this out for the forum in regards to drafting a QB and moving forward from Brissett. I think we can all agree that Brissett is not elite but he could be a very good starter in the NFL. I know we argue that trying to find the next franchise QB is very difficult so should we not try. I am a known Brissett fan but that aside, look at some the teams trying to find their next great quarterback and how long it can take to even find one that could go to the playoffs. 

 

Below is the team and their last great quarterback (in parentheses next to the last great QB is the year they retired. The next number is the year the next somewhat okay QB was drafted or acquired)

 

49ers- Young (99)- Garcia (99)- Garapollo(17)

 

Broncos- Elway (98)- Manning(12)- still looking

 

Redskins-Theismann (85)- RG3(12)- still looking

 

Bears-McMahon (88)- Grossman(03)- Trubisky(17)

 

Browns-Kosar (93)- Mayfield(18)

 

Steelers-Bradshaw (83)- O’Donnell(90)- Roethlisberger(04)

 

Cowboys-Aikmen (00)- Romo (03)- Prescott(16)

 

Giants-Simms (93)- Manning(04)- Jones(19)

 

Buffalo-Kelly (96)- Bledsoe(02)- Allen(18)

 

Miami-Marino (99)- Tannehill(12)- still looking

 

Tennessee-McNair (05)- Young (06)- Mariota(15)- still looking

 

Also just look at the list of QB drafted that were bust recently

Ponder, Locker,Manuel, Russell, Losman, Couch, Manziel, Quinn, Boller, Leftwich, Leinart, Beck, Frye, Harrington, Kizer, Rosen, Mariota, Winston, Lynch

 

This is all to saw, we as Colts fan were blessed to go from Manning to Luck but that very rarely happens. We might want to consider we have a good QB and could have a great team around him. We are currently 19th in offense (with a huge lack of player makers on offense) and 13th in defense. If we aren’t careful, we could end up in the QB wasteland. 

 

Just saying. 

Forget it terrible .

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I'd rather shoot for potential HOF rather than settle for average. 

 

Also, a big key to some (not all) drafted qb busts is that they were typically taken within the first 10 picks (which generally are teams that have nothing). We have a team and just need that piece to step in and do some of what Luck was doing. The QB can grow from there. 

 

I loved what Brissett represented as a person, but simply put - he's not the answer. 

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1 hour ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Forget it terrible .


Can you try this again?   Only thus time in complete sentences?   
 

Thanks.

 

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I'm a fan of JB as a person, but if we have the opportunity to get a QB that can throw a ball more than 6 yards (or throw under 6 yards at speeds less than 400mph) then we should.  We have a stronger team now than we had in most if not all of the Manning days, and would have (minus the horrible slew of offensive skill position injuries) been legit contenders with Luck.  There is no reason to assume the team will get worse under Ballard and Reich, so upping the QB play could bring us back in the hunt.

 

Obviously another WR would be nice but we COULD get there quickly with a top tier QB.  Anyone should be replaced if there are better options, regardless of position, if it improves your chance to win.

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I’m not saying that we stick with him. But do you really see a QB in this draft that you feel would change the franchise?

 

all I’m saying is give JB a season to see if with a fully healthy team, can he do well.  Also, how would you feel if Ballard did trade up but it was to take Lamb or Judy. Would you be *?


 

also, if he sucks next year, then you bottom out and can get Lawrence or Fields. 

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34 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

This whole sentiment of sticking with JB because you might not find somebody better is really starting to remind me of the reasons why some people wanted to stick with Pagano for so long.

That concept is proven over decades.

 

Teams will fire a good coach thinking they’ll hire a better coach, only they wind up hiring a worse coach.   That isn’t some pie in the sky theory that people pulled out of no where...   it actually happens quite often in all sports. 

 

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You need a team around any QB. Indy has relied on superhero QB'ing for to long. 

 

Whoever the QB is in the future, he needs a better defense and better skill players on the outside.

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If Tua falls to the Colts because of his injury .....

but otherwise, I prefer continuing to add to the team.  Keep building the defense and add WEAPONS!

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We’re drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round this year, like it or not. Brissett is a good backup. To consistently compete with Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, etc you need not a game manager. 

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2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

That concept is proven over decades.

 

Teams will fire a good coach thinking they’ll hire a better coach, only they wind up hiring a worse coach.   That isn’t some pie in the sky theory that people pulled out of no where...   it actually happens quite often in all sports. 

 

So you are for maintaining the status quo? Do you not trade cars for fear of getting a lemon? It's been said in the NFL if your not going forward your going backward. 

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11 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

So you are for maintaining the status quo? Do you not trade cars for fear of getting a lemon? It's been said in the NFL if your not going forward your going backward. 


Each case is unique.   
 

The car analogy doesn’t hold up because lemons are the exception to the rule.   But in the NFL, hiring a new coach who turns out to disappoint is far more common.

 

A fan base, any fan base,  is not a good way to judge what to do and when to do it. 
 

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3 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

I’m not saying that we stick with him. But do you really see a QB in this draft that you feel would change the franchise?

 

all I’m saying is give JB a season to see if with a fully healthy team, can he do well.  Also, how would you feel if Ballard did trade up but it was to take Lamb or Judy. Would you be *?


 

also, if he sucks next year, then you bottom out and can get Lawrence or Fields. 

 

Thing is though, you’re never going to have a fully healthy team in the NFL, or any sport really, but especially football and especially us. Check out this stat/tweet:
 

 

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13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Each case is unique.   
 

The car analogy doesn’t hold up because lemons are the exception to the rule.   But in the NFL, hiring a new coach who turns out to disappoint is far more common.

 

A fan base, any fan base,  is not a good way to judge what to do and when to do it. 
 

You indicated correctly that the team hires and fire coaches in you prior post, not fans. With a few exceptions they fire coaches for what they think is a just cause. Doesn't always work out but you don't stick with a bad coach because you are afraid the next guy might be worst.

Car analogy may be the exception but you can't be paranoid about making decisions to improve in business or in sports teams.

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4 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Thing is though, you’re never going to have a fully healthy team in the NFL, or at sport really, but especially football and especially us.

 

We’ve been in the top 10 in games missed due to injury for like 5 of the last 6 years. So yeah, while it’s been bad this year, it’s been pretty bad most other years recently.

All I am saying is we talk about Brissett like he has been awful. He is 6-6 (6-4 in games he started and finished). He might touch 3,000 yards and probably 21-24 touchdowns. If he gets goes even 3-1 in the last 4 the colts will be 9-7. If I told you after Luck retired that we would be without Hilton, Funchess, Rogers, Campbell, Ebron and Mack for parts or all the season,  and we would be 9-7, fighting for a playoff spot and have a QB with those stats...

 

I know I would take it. 
 

finally, we might draft a QB, and if that happens I am okay with. But there is no guarantee that sitting a QB for a year will turn him into Mahomes, Lamar or Watson.  All I am saying is let’s see what Brissett can do with some/most of his weapons. 

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32 minutes ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

All I am saying is we talk about Brissett like he has been awful. He is 6-6 (6-4 in games he started and finished). He might touch 3,000 yards and probably 21-24 touchdowns. If he gets goes even 3-1 in the last 4 the colts will be 9-7. If I told you after Luck retired that we would be without Hilton, Funchess, Rogers, Campbell, Ebron and Mack for parts or all the season,  and we would be 9-7, fighting for a playoff spot and have a QB with those stats...

 

I know I would take it. 
 

finally, we might draft a QB, and if that happens I am okay with. But there is no guarantee that sitting a QB for a year will turn him into Mahomes, Lamar or Watson.  All I am saying is let’s see what Brissett can do with some/most of his weapons. 

Drafting a QB is a win win for the team and Jacoby. If Jacoby balls out and suddenly improves or even say we get to a SB you have options. You can keep Jacoby and trade the draft pick and get a high pick. You can keep the draft pick and move on from Jacoby in a couple of years. If we don’t want to keep Jacoby and move on with the draft pick he has improved his chances in getting a starting job on another team if he balls out next year. There is no real risk with drafting the future and let Jacoby finish his contact. At the end of next season the answer will be obvious. For all we know the draft pick next season could outplay JB in camp and earn the starting job from week 1.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Drafting a QB is a win win for the team and Jacoby. If Jacoby balls out and suddenly improves or even say we get to a SB you have options. You can keep Jacoby and trade the draft pick and get a high pick. You can keep the draft pick and move on from Jacoby in a couple of years. If we don’t want to keep Jacoby and move on with the draft pick he has improved his chances in getting a starting job on another team. There is no real risk with drafting the future and let Jacoby finish his contact. At the end of next season the answer will be obvious. For all we know the draft pick next season could outplay JB in camp and earn the starting job from week 1.

I will say this is the best arguement for drafting a QB. It is realistic and sound and allows for the possibility JB could still be the future. 
 

the only down side to drafting a QB high is that you might miss out on drafting player that could impact the team right away. 

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This is one of the most shocking Brissett stats I've seen this year.  I also shared this in the JB thread, but at the request of another poster who thought it would be useful to this conversation, I have also included it here.

 

 

Not only is it disheartening to see Brissett dead last by such a large margin (as @EastStreet pointed out), you can see that 2 division rivals now have QBs capable of generating explosive passing plays of 20+ yards.

 

 

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2 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

You indicated correctly that the team hires and fire coaches in you prior post, not fans. With a few exceptions they fire coaches for what they think is a just cause. Doesn't always work out but you don't stick with a bad coach because you are afraid the next guy might be worst.

Car analogy may be the exception but you can't be paranoid about making decisions to improve in business or in sports teams.


I understand...   the question becomes on whether people agree on whether s coach, any coach, is indeed a bad coach.   
 

Or,  are there others issues/problems going on.

 

Was Pagano a bad coach when he won 11 games in each of his first three seasons?   Even after we went further in in the playoffs each season ?    Well, we had fans saying fire him each year.

 

Was it Pagano’s fault when we went 8-8 two straight years with Luck being hurt and the roster in rapid decline?  Plenty of fans thought so.  
 

Pagano wasn’t a great coach,  but he wasn’t as bad as many here thought. For my money,  the bigger problem proved to be the GM.

 

Finding a really good head coach is one of the hardest things to do in all of sports, not just football.   Firing a bad coach is one thing.  But firing a good coach in search of an even better coach  is done with high risk.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

This is one of the most shocking Brissett stats I've seen this year.  I also shared this in the JB thread, but at the request of another poster who thought it would be useful to this conversation, I have also included it here.

 

 

Not only is it disheartening to see Brissett dead last by such a large margin (as @EastStreet pointed out), you can see that 2 division rivals now have QBs capable of generating explosive passing plays of 20+ yards.

 

Tannehill lately worries me more than the Stache though lol... But yes, Minshew gives them a punchers chance to flip the field. IMO Foles might have got the hook too early, on top of being in a system, or with a group of guys, that just don't play to his strengths. 

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I think the idea that the Colts will ever be healthy is a pipe dream. Obviously, ideally, you have a mostly healthy team. But the deal is that isnt close to reality. Every season we talk about how injured this Colts team is. And how "we gotta be the most injured team". Cant count how many seasons I have seen at least one poster say something like that. 

 

All Ballard can do is keep stacking good draft on top of good draft. Keep hitting most of your picks. Whether or not you're a huge Ballard believer or not, you cannot say he hasn't done a tremendous job with this team. 

 

One thing I hope he has learned, is the need to draft a top WR in the early rounds. Either this year, or next year. The Colts havent had a stable 1-2 WR combo since Reggie was here. Both Reggie and Harrison were first round picks, and by god Grigson lucked out on TY Hilton being so good (a third rounder). 

 

The top 2 needs on this team are QB and WR. After that I would be majorly on board with RG/RT being 3rd priority. This line just isnt solid enough on the right side. Some might argue pass rush needs more attention than the oline, but in the end this defense has held teams to less than 30 in most of the games they have played this year... Draft a QB. Draft a top notch WR along with the oline and you're all in, SB bound in the year 2021. 

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3 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think the idea that the Colts will ever be healthy is a pipe dream. Obviously, ideally, you have a mostly healthy team. But the deal is that isnt close to reality. Every season we talk about how injured this Colts team is. And how "we gotta be the most injured team". Cant count how many seasons I have seen at least one poster say something like that. 

 

All Ballard can do is keep stacking good draft on top of good draft. Keep hitting most of your picks. Whether or not you're a huge Ballard believer or not, you cannot say he hasn't done a tremendous job with this team. 

 

One thing I hope he has learned, is the need to draft a top WR in the early rounds. Either this year, or next year. The Colts havent had a stable 1-2 WR combo since Reggie was here. Both Reggie and Harrison were first round picks, and by god Grigson lucked out on TY Hilton being so good (a third rounder). 

 

The top 2 needs on this team are QB and WR. After that I would be majorly on board with RG/RT being 3rd priority. This line just isnt solid enough on the right side. Some might argue pass rush needs more attention than the oline, but in the end this defense has held teams to less than 30 in most of the games they have played this year... Draft a QB. Draft a top notch WR along with the oline and you're all in, SB bound in the year 2021. 

I think with us this year, it is the injuries to the wrong players. If TY and Mack just could've stayed healthy all season we are probably 7-5 or even 8-4. When a team loses their #1 WR and #1 RB it is tough to win. 

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1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think with us this year, it is the injuries to the wrong players. If TY and Mack just could've stayed healthy all season we are probably 7-5 or even 8-4. When a team loses their #1 WR and #1 RB it is tough to win. 

 

For sure those are major injuries and then Ebron kicks you while you're down. No doubt it's been a tough year injury wise. It would just seem it's always like this every year with some major guys. If it's not Andrew its TY. If it's not TY its Mack. 

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8 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

I think the idea that the Colts will ever be healthy is a pipe dream. Obviously, ideally, you have a mostly healthy team. But the deal is that isnt close to reality. Every season we talk about how injured this Colts team is. And how "we gotta be the most injured team". Cant count how many seasons I have seen at least one poster say something like that. 

 

All Ballard can do is keep stacking good draft on top of good draft. Keep hitting most of your picks. Whether or not you're a huge Ballard believer or not, you cannot say he hasn't done a tremendous job with this team. 

 

One thing I hope he has learned, is the need to draft a top WR in the early rounds. Either this year, or next year. The Colts havent had a stable 1-2 WR combo since Reggie was here. Both Reggie and Harrison were first round picks, and by god Grigson lucked out on TY Hilton being so good (a third rounder). 

 

The top 2 needs on this team are QB and WR. After that I would be majorly on board with RG/RT being 3rd priority. This line just isnt solid enough on the right side. Some might argue pass rush needs more attention than the oline, but in the end this defense has held teams to less than 30 in most of the games they have played this year... Draft a QB. Draft a top notch WR along with the oline and you're all in, SB bound in the year 2021. 

The injury excuse every single year is a faux narrative in most cases. The graphic I posted that compared all teams was pretty clear. Sure we are beat up, but so is everyone else at this stage of the season. WR was hit hard, but let's not act it's the cause of our passing game woes. We were pretty anemic earlier in the year with a better group than Luck had last year that was ranked 6th. 

 

I do think we need to draft WR, but I'd say it's probably 3rd or 4th on my list. And that's more than fine given our 4th pick is in the 3rd round, and this WR class is really deep. My priorities are 1. QB, then a tie for 2 with DL and OL, and 4th a WR. We could go one of 3 directions on DL, and also 3 directions on OL. I could see us drafting our future LT and and moving Smith inside, drafting a RT and move Smith inside, or keep Smith at RT and draft a RG. The earlier we grab an OL will match what we end up doing in those 3 scenarios IMO. 

 

On WR, they really need to define a clear strategy around X, Z, and slot before drafting one. And they really need to decide on QB type before they determine WR strategy. If they do keep JB as starter, I definitely wouldn't waste a high pick on a dynamic WR. I'd get a good big bodied possession type. A deep threat or seam WR will be pretty much a waste. 

 

If they get a competent well rounded QB, I think TY will be fine at either Z or slot for another few years, Campbell could do both Z and slot as well and be good. Fountain could be a decent depth guy at X, Z, or slot. Funchess, if kept will be a good bully slot and limited X. Pascal is decent depth, will likely be a bit better at standard X than Funch, but worse as possession X and slot bully. All that said, I'd look for a good well rounded polished X with some speed in the draft, and that can be found in the late 2nd or 3rd. We've got several options already at Z and slot. 

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What about the idea of trading back in the 1st? If the guy (hopefully a Qb) Ballard likes isn´t available anymore or just the value isn´t there in the 1st i like the idea of trading back and get more picks. If we pick at around 14 or 15 we could easily get an additional 2nd rd pick or even a 2021 1st round pick of a team thats drafting between 28 and 32 and wants to draft their future Qb. If its a 2021 1st rd pick, we could use it to trade and get one of the 2 top Qb´s next year, even if we pick at around 15 or 16 again.

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It seems most fans underestimate the complexity of putting a winning team together. Frankly, even most professional teams in all sports have problems doing it. Teams need to develop internal capabilities beside merely bringing in talented players. Take player development, for example. You bring in a promising QB, with talent and skills - everything you thought you wanted in a player. The question is, can you develop that player to best align with the skills and abilities of the rest of the team? A few teams can (take Belichick, for example) - most can't - at least not very well. They just spin the wheel and hope to get lucky.

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7 hours ago, zibby43 said:

This is one of the most shocking Brissett stats I've seen this year.  I also shared this in the JB thread, but at the request of another poster who thought it would be useful to this conversation, I have also included it here.

 

 

Not only is it disheartening to see Brissett dead last by such a large margin (as @EastStreet pointed out), you can see that 2 division rivals now have QBs capable of generating explosive passing plays of 20+ yards.

 

 

Everyone keeps saying he can’t throw the deep ball. Anyone ever consider that Reich is scheming to not throw it because of the lack of playmakers at WR. Below is his ranking form 2017 according to PFF
 

https://www.pff.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

 

 

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1 hour ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Everyone keeps saying he can’t throw the deep ball. Anyone ever consider that Reich is scheming to not throw it because of the lack of playmakers at WR. Below is his ranking form 2017 according to PFF
 

https://www.pff.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

 

 

 

Maybe Reich isn't scheming deep throws because he knows Brissett isn't good at it? 

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10 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

 

Maybe Reich isn't scheming deep throws because he knows Brissett isn't good at it? 

Or Reich isn’t scheming deep throws because we are missing top 4 WRs and our number 1 TE

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14 hours ago, rockywoj said:

If Tua falls to the Colts because of his injury .....

but otherwise, I prefer continuing to add to the team.  Keep building the defense and add WEAPONS!

Tua is a joke

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we are already looking for the franchise QB, its not Jacoby.  they are like 25th in passing

 

 

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I'm not sure about the current love for some of these college QBs.  They seem to come from a run and shoot offense, or some type of offense that relies upon their mobility.  I like mobility, but the problem in the NFL is injuries.  Tua got a major injury after only two years.  

 

If I'm truly looking for a QB to outplay JB and be the franchise, I want him healthy for 10 years.  PM stayed healthy by staying in the pocket.  Brady did too.  When he got hurt, they changed the rules to protect the pocket passer.  Luck had some issues of course.

 

We just invested capital in a stout oline, evidenced by relative statue JB having 4 seconds to throw.  Not sure why going for a guy with mobility of Aaron Rogers, Mahomes, or Tua would be a priority or a trait that really scores highly on our board.

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With our current QB situation and a looming lockout in 2021, it might take a bit longer before we are set at QB.

 

First of all... Brissett's contract expires at the end of next season... so Ballard might decide to extend his contract in the coming offseason or let Brissett hit free agency in 2021.

 

We all know CB won't let Brissett walk, without having at least a decent backup in place, so I think we are stuck with Brissett for at least the next 3-4 years.

 

UNLESS some QB in the coming draft drops and land in CB´s hands... which is unlikely as the Colts currently sits at #17. And none of Joe Burrow, Tua or Justin Herbert will drop that far.

 

So should we have a chance to get one of them... we need to lose the last 4 games to secure a top 10 pick, and then CB might need to trade up in the draft.

And as Ballard loves his draft picks... that's not gonna happen. 

 

Regarding the 2021 lockout looming... which probably will become a long battle where things could get messy, and where football might be suspended the entire 2021/22 season, who knows if there would even be any 2021 draft? 

 

So Finding the Franchise could take longer than we probably can imagine.

But hey... Brady have retired when we find our next franchise QB ;)

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4 hours ago, BleedBlue4Shoe86 said:

Everyone keeps saying he can’t throw the deep ball. Anyone ever consider that Reich is scheming to not throw it because of the lack of playmakers at WR. Below is his ranking form 2017 according to PFF
 

https://www.pff.com/news/final-nfl-qb-rankings-by-pff-player-grades-2017

 

 

Well, it already has been discussed this topic time and time again. In every game our WR appears free for some deep passes, but JB never sees them or he just ignore them.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ThorstenDenmark said:

With our current QB situation and a looming lockout in 2021, it might take a bit longer before we are set at QB.

 

First of all... Brissett's contract expires at the end of next season... so Ballard might decide to extend his contract in the coming offseason or let Brissett hit free agency in 2021.

 

We all know CB won't let Brissett walk, without having at least a decent backup in place, so I think we are stuck with Brissett for at least the next 3-4 years.

 

UNLESS some QB in the coming draft drops and land in CB´s hands... which is unlikely as the Colts currently sits at #17. And none of Joe Burrow, Tua or Justin Herbert will drop that far.

 

So should we have a chance to get one of them... we need to lose the last 4 games to secure a top 10 pick, and then CB might need to trade up in the draft.

And as Ballard loves his draft picks... that's not gonna happen. 

 

Regarding the 2021 lockout looming... which probably will become a long battle where things could get messy, and where football might be suspended the entire 2021/22 season, who knows if there would even be any 2021 draft? 

 

So Finding the Franchise could take longer than we probably can imagine.

But hey... Brady have retired when we find our next franchise QB ;)

Brissett will not get extended that long unless next year he shows major improvement. Right now he will be the starter next year and a rookie will sit a year.  That is if ballard gets the guy he wants in the next draft. 

 

I see why everyone loves love. I don’t care how bad the opposition is. You look at his traits. Some of those throws are very much what you see from Mahomes. Teams like the bears passed on Mahomes because they didn’t just look at his traits. They were worried about things that really don’t matter.

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1 minute ago, DiogoZ said:

Well, it already has been discussed this topic time and time again. In every game our WR appears free for some deep passes, but JB never sees them or he just ignore them.

 

 

I agree, but there is more to it that we can't see, IMO.  The issue is xs and os.  What has to happen is for the receivers to be open at the point JB expects them to be open.  If he's reading his 2nd progression and we're seeing his 1st read who is now open or his third read who is open prematurely, then it doesn't matter if they are open. 

 

When he goes back to them the DB might be in a position to close in.  Its a matter of a QB gaining experience, and a matter of developing timing with his receivers.  (PM used to stress this).  I don't see how any reasonable person could argue that JB has had plenty of NFL playing time and has NOT had a revolving door at the receiver position.

 

The lack of a lot of game experience and the lack of timing with the receivers is something that any rookie QB will also deal with.  So we will be starting with the same criticisms if we draft a rookie.  A QB who likely won't see open receivers down field unless it is his first read.

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17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm not sure about the current love for some of these college QBs.  They seem to come from a run and shoot offense, or some type of offense that relies upon their mobility.  I like mobility, but the problem in the NFL is injuries.  Tua got a major injury after only two years. 

 

 

its a risk but some of them still play a long time and pocket passers get hurt too.  Mike vick never really lost his speed for example.  Tua wasnt hurt on a running play either

 

as for Jordan love, he can move but he runs less than Luck did hes not a running QB 

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21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I'm not sure about the current love for some of these college QBs.  They seem to come from a run and shoot offense, or some type of offense that relies upon their mobility.  I like mobility, but the problem in the NFL is injuries.  Tua got a major injury after only two years.  

 

If I'm truly looking for a QB to outplay JB and be the franchise, I want him healthy for 10 years.  PM stayed healthy by staying in the pocket.  Brady did too.  When he got hurt, they changed the rules to protect the pocket passer.  Luck had some issues of course.

 

We just invested capital in a stout oline, evidenced by relative statue JB having 4 seconds to throw.  Not sure why going for a guy with mobility of Aaron Rogers, Mahomes, or Tua would be a priority or a trait that really scores highly on our board.

 

 I would describe our QB as being under constant pressure. 
 Castonzo and Nelson pass block very well and we are mediocre after that.
  Mobility is going to be very important i would think.

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32 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

 

its a risk but some of them still play a long time and pocket passers get hurt too.  Mike vick never really lost his speed for example.  Tua wasnt hurt on a running play either

 

as for Jordan love, he can move but he runs less than Luck did hes not a running QB 

I don't want to write a four page white paper, so some broad brushed statements have to be made.   Agreed about your characterization of Love.

 

QBs tend to get injured when they have contact.  The more an offense relies upon the QBs mobility either by a designed play or by ineffective pocket play, the more likely they will be injured.  Tua got hurt on a pass play where he was outside of the pocket.  Aaron Rogers broke his collar bone at least twice because he had to scramble or was extending the play.  PM, Brady, Big Ben tended to stay healthy.  Also, having some size and strength to withstand a DLs or LBs arm tackle helps too.

 

I'm simply saying that it seems counterproductive to our investment in a #6 LG to form a 4 second long stout pocket to now covet a college QB who's strong strait is mobility outside of the pocket.  I'm not talking about Love, since I would consider him more of a pocket passer, and his escapability from a collapsing pocket is not really on tape.  Given our oline, I'd think I'd want Love more than Tua, but I also want a 6'4 240 pound QB to stay in the pocket with confidence he can shed an arm tackle.  As far as Love with regards to that, he doesn't look to have the frame for it.  Fromm wouldn't be that guy either.  Burrow would be the guy.

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