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Bobby Okereke vs. Devin Bush

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Bobby Okereke

352 total snaps

30 solo tackles 13 assist total of 43 tackles

2 Tackle for Loss 1 sack 2 forced fumbles 1 fumble recoveries

2 Pass deflections 0 int

 

Devin Bush

697 snaps

54 solo 32 assists total of 86 tackles

6 tackle for loss 1 sack 1 forced fumbles 4 fumble recoveries

4 Pass Reflections 2 ints

 

Ballard ended up getting yet another steal in the 3rd round. Okereke has been playing really well of late and it's showing. Bush is this year's top LB by the media and Okereke just has about the same stats wise because Okereke has played half the total snaps as Bush. I hope come next year Okerek gets the starting Mike. I like Walker dont get me wrong but Okereke is looking really good.

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Yes, now if the pressure is ratcheted up, the INTs will come, I am positive. We don't have the D-line or the kind of pressure that the Steelers generate on a regular basis, that always helps with LB numbers. Even the future HOF LB Ray Lewis benefited a big deal from Haloti Ngata being drafted and making plays in that middle. 

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Okereke Is starting to come on but he is not as good or as strong as Walker at the point attract IMO. I am happy the way it is to Okereke is a little soft against the run.

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11 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Okereke Is starting to come on but he is not as good or as strong as Walker at the point attract IMO. I am happy the way it is to Okereke is a little soft against the run.

I do like Walker in the run but his coverage is not the best. Also, this is Okereke 1st season playing minimal snaps. He has more upside and still needs more PT.

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I like Okerke.  Keep in mind his stats are probably the result of the coaches putting him in situations where they think he can succeed, because of limitations in other things.  So if he had the same snap count as Bush, the additional snaps would likely be in less favorable conditions and the stats would probably reflect it.

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Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm not sure I would call that similar stats lol

Yes, it's not similar but look at the number of snaps Bush has played compared to Okereke. Just imagine the possible stats if Okerek had all that playing time.

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5 minutes ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Yes, it's not similar but look at the number of snaps Bush has played compared to Okereke. Just imagine the possible stats if Okerek had all that playing time.

that's not how it works tho really he could play more and get embarrassed we really have no idea 

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10 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm not sure I would call that similar stats lol


Okereke has roughly half the stats...  but in roughly half the snaps.   That’s the comparison.

 

Double his snaps; double his stats, and they’re pretty close.

 

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6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I like Okerke.  Keep in mind his stats are probably the result of the coaches putting him in situations where they think he can succeed, because of limitations in other things.  So if he had the same snap count as Bush, the additional snaps would likely be in less favorable conditions and the stats would probably reflect it.

Okereke is really only playing the SAM position and a rotational piece here and there. Most of the time the Colts are in Nickel which allows an extra DB. Walker and Leonard are getting most of the playing time. I'm not saying he should take the Mike spot. It's only his first year and only playing minimal spots. Don't be surprised if he takes over the Mike next year tho. Ballard is very high on him.

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3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Okereke has roughly half the stats...  but in roughly half the snaps.   That’s the comparison.

 

Double his snaps; double his stats, and they’re pretty close.

 

That's how it usually always works not always. Also, Okereke is a rookie and will only get better with more playing time so there is the possibility of having better stats as well. 

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


Okereke has roughly half the stats...  but in roughly half the snaps.   That’s the comparison.

 

Double his snaps; double his stats, and they’re pretty close.

 

I get it but there really isnt a guarantee that he does that well it's just an educated guess really 

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1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I get it but there really isnt a guarantee that he does that well it's just an educated guess really 

I see you're point. There is no gurantee, he could get hurt and play worse or he could really take off and have better stats. Who knows. Like I've mentioned before rookies only get better with more playing time and Ballard has echoed that from day one. Ever since Okereke has started the SAM position he has gotten better and better. I think come next year he takes over the Mike position. 

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Just now, Coltsfan0112 said:

I see you're point. There is no gurantee, he could get hurt and play worse or he could really take off and have better stats. Who knows. Like I've mentioned before rookies only get better with more playing time and Ballard has echoed that from day one. Ever since Okereke has started the SAM position he has gotten better and better. I think come next year he takes over the Mike position. 

I hope so I really like him hopefully he can get a little better at stopping the run then I think he would really take off 

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10 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I hope so I really like him hopefully he can get a little better at stopping the run then I think he would really take off 

I agree. He is a rookie and has made some mistakes but is getting better and better. I'm going to put to videos to show how he has been improving.

https://mobile.twitter.com/NFLscheme/status/1201232607691890689

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/E_G_T_B56/status/1201204016090357760

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The point is, considering where we got him in the 3rd round, his curve is trending upwards and we did not have to mortgage picks like the Steelers did. The OP is talking about value proposition and if you can get similar quality (not same) without mortgaging picks, that is better, IMO. 

 

Plus, it is not like our "super fast" TE Jack Doyle :) did not juke out Devin Bush for a TD score in the Steelers game. If you want to throw stones by downplaying Okereke's improvement, I have plenty to throw at Bush as well. 

 

 

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Walker is still the better run defender by a lot over Okereke. Bobby excels mostly in space and on passing downs. 

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59 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I get it but there really isnt a guarantee that he does that well it's just an educated guess really 

 

That's how projections and forecasts work though.

 

At a certain point, you have a big enough sample size to where you can comfortably forecast ahead as to what the numbers will be with additional snaps. 

 

It's not even really about the traditional stats, either, as Okereke passes the eye test and has a great advanced analytics (PFF) grade of 76.6. 

 

Bush has a grade of 59.4.  In other words, Okereke has substantially outplayed Bush, despite receiving less snaps, which only makes the OP's point stronger.

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I  bet Walker gets extended in the offseason. I don’t think anyone will take over anyone’s job. Eberflus is going to use all three in situations that play to their strengths. We are very lucky. We have three that compliment each other very well.  That means we don’t have any weaknesses at LB since walker and okereke do have different strengths.

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Something else is that okereke playing so well allows us to use Leonard more in the spy position. Leonard is great at that. We can put all three on the field and let Leonard get after the QB. He has 5 sacks even missing 3 games. That is crazy.

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25 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Something else is that okereke playing so well allows us to use Leonard more in the spy position. Leonard is great at that. We can put all three on the field and let Leonard get after the QB. He has 5 sacks even missing 3 games. That is crazy.


What do you think the QB spy “position” is and it’s responsibilities? 

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I saw Okereke play some Sam this past weekend against the Titans. I saw one play with Leonard in at Will, Walker in at Mike, and Okereke at Sam.

 

Why can't we just roll with that? 

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I know it was during a 2 point try, but he did have that pick 2 a couple weeks ago. Does this not count as an interception on his stat sheet?

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5 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Bobby Okereke

352 total snaps

30 solo tackles 13 assist total of 43 tackles

2 Tackle for Loss 1 sack 2 forced fumbles 1 fumble recoveries

2 Pass deflections 0 int

 

Devin Bush

697 snaps

54 solo 32 assists total of 86 tackles

6 tackle for loss 1 sack 1 forced fumbles 4 fumble recoveries

4 Pass Reflections 2 ints

 

Ballard ended up getting yet another steal in the 3rd round. Okereke has been playing really well of late and it's showing. Bush is this year's top LB by the media and Okereke just has about the same stats wise because Okereke has played half the total snaps as Bush. I hope come next year Okerek gets the starting Mike. I like Walker dont get me wrong but Okereke is looking really good.

He may be good, but I will always remember him from Pat McAfee's intro during the draft...it was hilarious.

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5 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Walker is still the better run defender by a lot over Okereke. Bobby excels mostly in space and on passing downs. 

Okereke has 44 tackles compared to Walkers 81. 1 sack and 2 forced fumbles vs 1.5 sacks and 1 forced fumble. Don't know how more snaps Walker had vs Okereke but glad we have them both. Walker is having a very good year and Okereke is having a very good year for a rookie.

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6 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

that's not how it works tho really he could play more and get embarrassed we really have no idea 

Or he could play more and get to pro bowl level we really have no idea....

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1 minute ago, Introspect said:

Or he could play more and get to pro bowl level we really have no idea....

exactly 

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I like Walkers effort and on field leadership. He seems to pair well with Leonard. Okereke seems to be doing fine as a rookie...will be interesting to see the 2nd year jump.

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Reminds me of when Colts fans wanted Roquan Smith over Maniac. 

 

 

Maniac:

 

GP - 24 

Solo - 165 

Ast  - 80 

Total - 265 

Int - 4 

Sack - 12.0 

 

 

Roquan:

 

GP - 27 

Solo - 154 

Ast - 66 

Total - 220 

Int - 2 

Sack - 7.0 

 

 

         

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This is really not an Oke vs Walker discussion anymore. Oke has been the primary SAM the last two games (Adams and Franklin have not played a snap on D). Oke still plays some MLB/MIKE on passing downs, but he's horrible in the middle vs the run and won't be seen much if at all on early downs in the middle.

 

If we doubled his snaps, that means he's playing early downs and likely getting swallowed on run plays like he has been but more. IMO they'll keep playing him as SAM on SAM downs, and in obvious passing downs in the middle. Since Leonard has come back, Oke's total snaps have gone down. Walkers meanwhile have gone up, especially the last two games.

 

If this tells us anything at all, is that Ballard may be looking for MIKE depth in the draft of FA come this off season, and that Franklin is probably not a Colts next year.

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The Colts defense in particular have good ball skills. They  all can intercept the ball intead of knocking  it down or bobbling it like most defenders. Like Chad said, if we had consistent pressure our interceptions would be higher.

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

This is really not an Oke vs Walker discussion anymore. Oke has been the primary SAM the last two games (Adams and Franklin have not played a snap on D). Oke still plays some MLB/MIKE on passing downs, but he's horrible in the middle vs the run and won't be seen much if at all on early downs in the middle.

 

If we doubled his snaps, that means he's playing early downs and likely getting swallowed on run plays like he has been but more. IMO they'll keep playing him as SAM on SAM downs, and in obvious passing downs in the middle. Since Leonard has come back, Oke's total snaps have gone down. Walkers meanwhile have gone up, especially the last two games.

 

If this tells us anything at all, is that Ballard may be looking for MIKE depth in the draft of FA come this off season, and that Franklin is probably not a Colts next year.

Ballard will not be taking a linebacker early at all and would be shocked if he did in this draft. Also, you're judging a rookie who has played minimal snaps and that hasn't played as much and is saying linebacker will be addressed in this draft. The guy needs more playing time! Lmao. I agree he has made mistakes, sure has. Every rookie does. Plus not every rookie is a Darious Leonard. Leonard has made plenty mistakes in the run this year as well as Walker. Walker was actually missing a bunch of tackles earlier in the season. All I'm saying is the guy is getting better every week and is making plays. Thats what happens when rookies start to play more. They get more adjusted to the speed, scheme, roles etc. An interception for 2 points. Has a forced fumble in the past 2 games. Walker is no scrub don't get me wrong but Okereke is ascending right now. Won't be shocked at all if he starts at the Mike position come 2020. 

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Okereke has been pretty much as advertised...good in sub packages in pass coverage...and somewhat of a liability in run defense...hence the lower number of snaps.

 

Comparing him to Devin Bush is a bit unfair. Bush was in the running for DROY...is on a completely different level of athleticism...and probably has All Pro upside. 

 

But hopefully Okereke can get stronger and improve his run defense...to possibly be Leonard's 3-down running mate. I do wish the Colts had the luxury of using a pick on a stud MLB...but that's probably not going to happe anytime soon. I know people like Walker...but he's not that guy (and he's one of those guys I hope Ballard is selective about when re-signing players). 

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1 hour ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Ballard will not be taking a linebacker early at all and would be shocked if he did in this draft. Also, you're judging a rookie who has played minimal snaps and that hasn't played as much and is saying linebacker will be addressed in this draft. The guy needs more playing time! Lmao. I agree he has made mistakes, sure has. Every rookie does. Plus not every rookie is a Darious Leonard. Leonard has made plenty mistakes in the run this year as well as Walker. Walker was actually missing a bunch of tackles earlier in the season. All I'm saying is the guy is getting better every week and is making plays. Thats what happens when rookies start to play more. They get more adjusted to the speed, scheme, roles etc. An interception for 2 points. Has a forced fumble in the past 2 games. Walker is no scrub don't get me wrong but Okereke is ascending right now. Won't be shocked at all if he starts at the Mike position come 2020. 

Either you didn't read what I posted, or didn't understand it.

 

First, I never said Ballard was taking a LB early. I said depth MLB/MIKE. That could be done via FA or mid (4th) to late draft. 

 

Second, I said that comparing Oke to Walker is not really relevant anymore, because Oke has moved more to a SAM role (Walker is MIKE). If you're not aware, our base D is really nickel. We only play around 20-35% SAM depending on game plan. I also said you'll still see Oke play at MIKE on obvious passing downs, but we haven't seen him play many (or any) early/running downs at MIKE since the move to SAM. 

 

IMO, they got a good chance to see Oke play MLB (all downs) while Leonard was out, and they saw enough to know he's not a 3 down answer there. He is however the 3rd best LB we have so they bumped Adams from SAM. That's the reason I said Franklin (#2 SAM) will likely not be a Colt next year.

 

Also, comparing Bush to Oke is silly to start with. Different scheme (3-4 to 4-3) and Bush is playing ILB while Oke is now playing OLB/SAM with a little pass coverage MIKE mixed in. Bush plays in non-dime downs mostly. Bush is also simply very different. Shorter but the same weight, and much faster and stronger than Oke. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't understand the need for constant validation from some people.  Oke is proving to be a very good draft pick in the 3rd round.  He may even, some day, be as vital to the Colts as Bush is for the Steelers.  Right now thos Oke is not as good as Bush.  And the fact that he has played half the snaps of Bush is also a telling stat.  If he was ready day 1 to be a starter then he'd have as many snaps as Bush (give or take depending on the number of defensive plays for the team)

 

But just because Oke is not as good as Bush does not mean he was not a good trending towards great draft pick.

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On 12/4/2019 at 11:51 AM, BProland85 said:

Walker is still the better run defender by a lot over Okereke. Bobby excels mostly in space and on passing downs. 

Winner winner chicken dinner, This statement is correct!!

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Either you didn't read what I posted, or didn't understand it.

 

First, I never said Ballard was taking a LB early. I said depth MLB/MIKE. That could be done via FA or mid (4th) to late draft. 

 

Second, I said that comparing Oke to Walker is not really relevant anymore, because Oke has moved more to a SAM role (Walker is MIKE). If you're not aware, our base D is really nickel. We only play around 20-35% SAM depending on game plan. I also said you'll still see Oke play at MIKE on obvious passing downs, but we haven't seen him play many (or any) early/running downs at MIKE since the move to SAM. 

 

IMO, they got a good chance to see Oke play MLB (all downs) while Leonard was out, and they saw enough to know he's not a 3 down answer there. He is however the 3rd best LB we have so they bumped Adams from SAM. That's the reason I said Franklin (#2 SAM) will likely not be a Colt next year.

 

Also, comparing Bush to Oke is silly to start with. Different scheme (3-4 to 4-3) and Bush is playing ILB while Oke is now playing OLB/SAM with a little pass coverage MIKE mixed in. Bush plays in non-dime downs mostly. Bush is also simply very different. Shorter but the same weight, and much faster and stronger than Oke. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never compared Bush and Okereke I just compared their stats and sample wise of it. I understand what Nickel is and that's why Okereke is playing about 1/2 the snaps as Walker because he's playing the SAM position which he is only playing the usual 1st downs. Rotating here and there on 3rd downs occasionally. I also understood about drafting a LB. I think we both know it won't be early and you were thinking more Mid round. I  personally think it won't happen with the depth we have with Leonard, Walker, Okereke, Franklin and Speed. I could be wrong but just don't see it as a priority with other needs unless somehow a player falls or if there is a guy that Ballard likes a lot. Also, to say they think he is not the answer for a 3 down Mike because of 3 games while Leonard is out is fullish. He's a 3rd round rookie that barerly played before than. Like rookies make a lot of mistakes. Just like Rock has. That's why Ballard preaches you have to play you're young guys cause that's how they get better and grow. I'm not saying Okereke is perfect but ever since the Chiefs game his play has gotten better and better and he is improving more and more. I just rather see Okereke snap counts increase hence taking the starting Mike spot and Walker decrease because Okereke has been making game changing plays and is playing minimal snaps. 

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On 12/4/2019 at 12:46 PM, Coltsfan0112 said:

Bobby Okereke

352 total snaps

30 solo tackles 13 assist total of 43 tackles

2 Tackle for Loss 1 sack 2 forced fumbles 1 fumble recoveries

2 Pass deflections 0 int

 

Devin Bush

697 snaps

54 solo 32 assists total of 86 tackles

6 tackle for loss 1 sack 1 forced fumbles 4 fumble recoveries

4 Pass Reflections 2 ints

 

Ballard ended up getting yet another steal in the 3rd round. Okereke has been playing really well of late and it's showing. Bush is this year's top LB by the media and Okereke just has about the same stats wise because Okereke has played half the total snaps as Bush. I hope come next year Okerek gets the starting Mike. I like Walker dont get me wrong but Okereke is looking really good.

No offense, but this is slightly wrong. Okereke had an INT in the KC game, but a herd of zebras stole it from him.

Also Okereke being so good is great for us because it allows us to rotate Leonard, Okereke and Walker in and out and have two solid/great LBs in at all times.

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