Many reasons why the Colts future is in good hands

[DougDew]

Not sure I'd want Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield, or  just about any QB drafted in rounds 1 and 2 in the past three years.

[DougDew]

45 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Not sure I'd want Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield, or  just about any QB drafted in rounds 1 and 2 in the past three years.

Not sure how many can read a defense.

 

Or if they just come off of their first read, start running, and convert broken plays.  Seems like a shallow and short term method of success, IMO.

 

Weren't Kaep and RGIII MVP candidates at one point in their careers?

[Stephen]

6 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

1. The division isn't that scary. Houston is the clear leader but has traded future 1st rounders where that will haunt them in the future and they could barely beat the Colts with all the injuries. Jacksonville still doesn't have their future Qb and paid Nick Foles a butt ton of money and will and have lost defensive players. Titans barely beat the Colts and they have no solution to their Qb as well.

 

2. The Colts roster do have holes but not many. The main issues are Qb, WR, DT, DE and Kicker. 

 

3. The 2020 draft is set up well for the Colts and at the most perfect time. The WR depth is incredible where I could see Ballard grabbing 2 WR because value will fall due to all the WR talent. Also, there is good depth at DE and Qb as well where I could see Ballard drafting a guy like Love to develop behind Brissett for a year and drafting another DE since Sheard is a free agent and Houston has 1 more year with the Colts.

 

4. The cap situation is amazing and will be able to keep all our young core of players together since we don't have our franchise Qb right now. This is the thing I look at that excites me at our future. Ballard is so good at drafting and was one of the main person that helped Scout Mahomes where I have no doubt that Ballard can find us that guy. Just imagine if Ballard can get the Colts a Franchise Qb and WR in this class this team could be dominant for 10 plus years due to possibly having a Qb and WR on rookie contacts.

 

I know #4 is a bunch of what ifs but I have Ballard's trust since he has proven he can draft so well.

Jacksonville  has minchew. Should have never went back to foles

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This year has really just been about evaluation after Luck retired. So many weird things have happened this year all we can do is laugh and look forward to the draft. I don’t think I ever remember so many weird things happening to one team. 

[SouthernIndianaNDFan]

3 hours ago, DougDew said:

Not sure I'd want Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield, or  just about any QB drafted in rounds 1 and 2 in the past three years.

 

Well, you listed 5 of the probably 6 best young quarterbacks in the game. The days of a statue that stands in the pocket all game are gone. It's these young guys, that were inspired by Vick and Russ Wilson, that are changing the landscape of the NFL. It's no surprise that Ballard is looking at a guy, in Jordan Love, that draws Mahomes comps. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Well, you listed 5 of the probably 6 best young quarterbacks in the game. The days of a statue that stands in the pocket all game are gone. It's these young guys, that were inspired by Vick and Russ Wilson, that are changing the landscape of the NFL. It's no surprise that Ballard is looking at a guy, in Jordan Love, that draws Mahomes comps. 

Probably because NFL GMs can't find anything else coming out of college.

 

I'm just wondering if these guys are the best because they read defenses so well, or run so well.  Its a difference that matters.

 

And if its not a broken play where the WR usually is smart enough to find a spot in the zone, I've seen them throw many times into double coverage or tight single coverage hoping their WR beats the DB with the catch, and they call it a great QB play when it happens.  So some of it is marketing the stars of the league to a degree.

 

[hoosierhawk]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Not sure how many can read a defense.

 

Or if they just come off of their first read, start running, and convert broken plays.  Seems like a shallow and short term method of success, IMO.

 

Weren't Kaep and RGIII MVP candidates at one point in their careers?

You have got to be kidding. This post can't be serious.

[ColtsAC]

9 hours ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Brisett is decent but not a franchise guy.  He's performing poorly because all of the playmakers on offense are injured.  

 

Any QB would look noticably worse operating with the receiver corps that Brissett is operating with now.  The difference is that Brissett is just a game manager with a decent receiver corps but without that he just looks bad.  

 

There is a reason this team played much better at the beginning of the season.  Look at the injuries and where they have happened.  Most of them focused on offensive skill players.  

The more opponents realized Brissett has issues seeing the field, throwing downfield accurately, and touch issues, the more they stacked the box and said Brissett beat us...and he can't. That is the reason the offense slipped more than receivers being out.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

You have got to be kidding. This post can't be serious.

Is there reasoning behind that statement?  Please share.

 

Also, I'd be interested to know if any of these QBs stand in the pocket for 3 seconds and can see the field enough to "throw their receivers open", or if they just take off on a scramble?

 

Maybe they are, IDK, I'm asking.

 

Of course, Lamar Jackson looks like the NFL version of Tommy Frazier, so his rushing yards aren't really from scrambles.

[Pacergeek]

Ballard must stop being stubborn, and bring in some difference makers. Either trade draft picks, sign FA's, or both. Houston traded a lot for Tunsil, and now they have a good OL. Draft picks are way too hit or miss. Ballard has as good of a chance to draft another Tyquon Lewis as Darius Leonard. I don't like these odds. Those that think Ballard is a draft guru are delusional. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Ballard must stop being stubborn, and bring in some difference makers. Either trade draft picks, sign FA's, or both. Houston traded a lot for Tunsil, and now they have a good OL. Draft picks are way too hit or miss. Ballard has as good of a chance to draft another Tyquon Lewis as Darius Leonard. I don't like these odds. Those that think Ballard is a draft guru are delusional. 

A good observation.

[hoosierhawk]

 

 

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is there reasoning behind that statement?  Please share.

If you would have added Allen you would have included 6 of the best young QBs in the league. Have you seen them play?  Are you serious you don't know if they can read defense and just run after there first read. Mahomes threw for something over 5,000 yds last year on first reads and broken play I guess. You said wouldn't take them or any other first round or second round guys in the last three years and I find that laughable. Thank God you aren't our GM. 

Those are a few of the reasoning behind my statement. Do you agree?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We are in pretty much the same situation as the patriots. We both have young defenses and offenses that need a lot of work. I bet Brady retires after this season.

[DougDew]

27 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

 

 

If you would have added Allen you would have included 6 of the best young QBs in the league. Have you seen them play?  Are you serious you don't know if they can read defense and just run after there first read. Mahomes threw for something over 5,000 yds last year on first reads and broken play I guess. You said wouldn't take them or any other first round or second round guys in the last three years and I find that laughable. Thank God you aren't our GM. 

Those are a few of the reasoning behind my statement. Do you agree?

I didn't forget Allen.  I didn't include Allen because he tries to stay in the pocket longer, from what I see.

 

You throw a lot of insults but no info, only some stat where you have no idea of its underpinnings.

 

I'm not arguing.  I'm asking.  Do these guys follow only their first reads then run?  

 

Do they "throw their receivers open"?

 

Have the pundits who call these guys the "best young QBs in the NFL" know the answers to those questions, or are they just being lazy and looking at splash plays they OR their receiver makes then look at stats?

 

If those questions haven't been answered, then I don't know how they can be much better than any other QB who doesn't "come off of their first read" or doesn't "throw their receivers open" unless for their running. 

 

Instead of calling them the "best young QBs", maybe call them Tommy Frazier 2.0 type QBs for now.

 

Maybe they are the sober versions of Johnny Manziel?

 

So based upon what I don't know about them, (maybe everybody else knows?) I would not have taken them.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

35 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Ballard must stop being stubborn, and bring in some difference makers. Either trade draft picks, sign FA's, or both. Houston traded a lot for Tunsil, and now they have a good OL. Draft picks are way too hit or miss. Ballard has as good of a chance to draft another Tyquon Lewis as Darius Leonard. I don't like these odds. Those that think Ballard is a draft guru are delusional. 

Houston is a house of cards with no foundation. They are top heavy.  In a few years they are probably going to crumble not having any draft picks. They have cap space now but that won’t last long. I think Watson is due a new contract after this season.

[hoosierhawk]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I didn't forget Allen.  I didn't include Allen because he tries to stay in the pocket longer, from what I see.

 

You throw a lot of insults but no info, only some stat where you have no idea of its underpinnings.

 

I'm not arguing.  I'm asking.  Do these guys follow only their first reads then run?  

 

Do they "throw their receivers open"?

 

Have the pundits who call these guys the "best young QBs in the NFL" know the answers to those questions, or are they just being lazy and looking at splash plays they OR their receiver makes then look at stats?

 

If those questions haven't been answered, then I don't know how they can be much better than any other QB who doesn't "come off of their first read" or doesn't "throw their receivers open" unless for their running. 

 

Instead of calling them the "best young QBs", maybe call them Tommy Frazier 2.0 type QBs for now.

There is absolutely no way I could convince you in a hundred years. If stats won't convince you what will. EX. Mahomes threw  for 66% completions, over 5,000 yds and 50 tds but to you it has no basis to convince you that he can read a defense or advance past their first read. If you want to call them Tommy Frazier 2.0 that's your prerogative.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Tommie Frazier is the greatest college QB ever  woohoo, go Huskers!

[EastStreet]

10 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

There is absolutely no way I could convince you in a hundred years. If stats won't convince you what will. EX. Mahomes threw  for 66% completions, over 5,000 yds and 50 tds but to you it has no basis to convince you that he can read a defense or advance past their first read. If you want to call them Tommy Frazier 2.0 that's your prerogative.

If you provide stats, he moves the goal posts. If you provide real life situation, he moves the goal posts. His MO is to ask you to keep proving everything, and different things, while he dances around with anecdotal nonsense. If you provide direct evidence to counter what he says, it's just dumb luck or flash in the pan. It's fun to play the moving target game with him, but he tends to take the conversation to at least 5 degrees of separation... 

[superrep1967]

17 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I agree getting a Qb is tough but I think Ballard and his drafting philosphy will find the right one. I personally hope he gets Love. He has all the traits but just needs a year to be fully developed correctly and not rushed. I think Colts is perfect because they have Brisett for one more year and can take their time to mold him like Mahomes and Watson did.

Love has 16 picks this season so no to Love. 

[superrep1967]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

Not sure I'd want Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield, or  just about any QB drafted in rounds 1 and 2 in the past three years.

You wouldn't want Mahomes are you crazy. 

[superrep1967]

16 hours ago, ClaytonColt said:

Honestly, people say every year is loaded with this position or that position. It very rarely turns into reality, we should probably just wait and see.

 

Believe me though, if we were just lacking a center, guard and safety I'd be feeling a lot more positive.  Unfortunately we need the exact same positions as most teams in the bottom half of the league.

Sad but true

[superrep1967]

I like Herbert but I don't think there's any chance in the world we get him. 

[DougDew]

8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you provide stats, he moves the goal posts. If you provide real life situation, he moves the goal posts. His MO is to ask you to keep proving everything, and different things, while he dances around with anecdotal nonsense. If you provide direct evidence to counter what he says, it's just dumb luck or flash in the pan. It's fun to play the moving target game with him, but he tends to take the conversation to at least 5 degrees of separation... 

Understanding the underpinnings of stats is not moving the goal posts.

 

I asked:  (for the third time) do these QBs come off of their first read and do they "throw the receivers open"?

 

The response was to throw out a lazy stat about accumulated totals, then imply it's an intelligent answer to the question. ( If a person can't answer the question, maybe they shouldn't pretend they can?)

 

Maybe more relevant stats would be?  What are Mahomes stats when he stays in the pocket (like having a bad ankle) and DOESN'T have Tyreek Hill (IOW, a talent) to throw to?  What were they in our game?

 

Model it.  Forecast it.  Take the game where he was a statue and had to make plays while remaining in the pocket and had to throw to a replacement quality receiver. Maybe they would still be great stats, IDK. 

 

I'm asking to look for some comparison of these QBs in the NFL and college to see if they resolve the primary complaints we have with JB.  Or, do they have some of the same shortcomings but make up for it in a different way?  

 

If I thought they could not read defenses, come off of their first read, then I would not pick them in the first or second round.  I haven't heard any evidence that they don't do exactly the same thing we criticize JB for doing.

 

Also (and I'm adding a layer of analysis, not moving the goal posts) don't we want a statue as a QB?  I mean, we just invested pick 6 in a LG to help give our QB a clean pocket for 4 seconds.  To get a proper return from that investment, we want a QB who is CAPABLE OF BEING A STATUE, who can read defenses, come off of their first read, and "throw the receivers open" while standing in the pocket.  

 

Can any of these QBs produce 5000 yards and 50 TDs by staying in the pocket for 4 seconds, play after play after play?  Where are the stats or evidence they can?

[boo2202]

10 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

Ballard must stop being stubborn, and bring in some difference makers. Either trade draft picks, sign FA's, or both. Houston traded a lot for Tunsil, and now they have a good OL. Draft picks are way too hit or miss. Ballard has as good of a chance to draft another Tyquon Lewis as Darius Leonard. I don't like these odds. Those that think Ballard is a draft guru are delusional. 

Add drafting a basham or Wilson to that list. If you take away the Leonard pick more people would sour and his drafts. If the 2019 class doesn’t produce more next year, then I’ll wonder about his approach more. 

[MikeCurtis]

 

Early morning ramblings....... Not enough coffee yet 

 

1) Cut the KICKER!!!    AV has to go.......  this week... its a matter of principle

 

Use a 6th round pick on the best college kicker available

 

2) Last 2 Games...... Practice Chad Kelly, Play Chad Kelly.....  If he sucketh..... You cut him in offseason..... find out what you have..... Is he the savior of the franchise? Prolly not

 

If he is not...... You cut the guy...... Why waste a roster spot?

 

3) Draft TWO QBs......   Wait.... What???

 

If CK is off the team,  We need an open competition for QB.

 

Hoyer needs to go.......   He got his money...... why have a backup that cant (hasnt) won a single game that he started???

 

Brisett is looking like he is a good backup at best... even though MPStack has a huge man crush on the guy!!!

 

I would go best available OT or DL with the 16th pick

 

I would draft Love with the Washington pick (Fingers crossed)

 

I would draft a WR (very long, talented list)..... there will be good ones available in the mid second

 

In the 3rd I would take best available 

 

In the 4th, I would take best available 

 

IN the 5th, if he is still on the board, I would take a shot at Daniels from WSU

 

You could end up with starting the season with JB then Love

 

In the long run, Love or Daniel will be the starter at QB......

 

Its SUCH an important spot...... why not double down?

 

I also would MUCH rather have a potential future starter, than a almost good enough backup........  A backup is someone you can trade for future value (If they show in preseason)

 

 

A LOOOONG way from draft day.......  but some initial rambling from an old dude in Texas

 

 

 

[hoosierhawk]

9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you provide stats, he moves the goal posts. If you provide real life situation, he moves the goal posts. His MO is to ask you to keep proving everything, and different things, while he dances around with anecdotal nonsense. If you provide direct evidence to counter what he says, it's just dumb luck or flash in the pan. It's fun to play the moving target game with him, but he tends to take the conversation to at least 5 degrees of separation... 

Thanks Eaststreet. Slowly learning to not reply to such  but some of the crazy comments get me going but it becomes and endless charade of more foolishness. 

[Coltsfan0112]

6 hours ago, superrep1967 said:

Love has 16 picks this season so no to Love. 

Watson, Mahomes and Jackson all threw picks in college. What you look at is, are the traits and intengables there. Sure is. Last year he had 36 tds and 4 ints I believe and this year his coaches go to Texas Tech, and loses a lot talent as well. Is some mistakes on him. Yes of course but also he hasn't been properly developed by high end coaches. That's why you sit and develop him. Don't rush him. Do exactly what the Chiefs did and expect him to take over in 2021

[boo2202]

1 hour ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Watson, Mahomes and Jackson all threw picks in college. What you look at is, are the traits and intengables there. Sure is. Last year he had 36 tds and 4 ints I believe and this year his coaches go to Texas Tech, and loses a lot talent as well. Is some mistakes on him. Yes of course but also he hasn't been properly developed by high end coaches. That's why you sit and develop him. Don't rush him. Do exactly what the Chiefs did and expect him to take over in 2021

By end of workouts, interviews, etc love may jump tua and Hebert. You mentioned intangibles and your spot on. The kid has a great arm and he’s athletic. I expect tua to fall a bit, which might put him in play for us. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, boo2202 said:

By end of workouts, interviews, etc love may jump tua and Hebert. You mentioned intangibles and your spot on. The kid has a great arm and he’s athletic. I expect tua to fall a bit, which might put him in play for us. 

I would not want TUA with all the injuries he has had.

 

I was thinking about how much we are going to have to pay for our oline.  AC is going to get paid and my guess is since Kelly has been healthy he is going to get paid. Kelly might end up as the highest paid center. Then we have Nelson after next season.  We are going to have a lot of cap space wrapped up in our oline. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 hours ago, boo2202 said:

By end of workouts, interviews, etc love may jump tua and Hebert. You mentioned intangibles and your spot on. The kid has a great arm and he’s athletic. I expect tua to fall a bit, which might put him in play for us. 

He might but I expect a lot of teams ahead of us are going to want a QB who is ready. Love does seem to be raw and will need a year to sit.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Thanks Eaststreet. Slowly learning to not reply to such  but some of the crazy comments get me going but it becomes and endless charade of more foolishness. 

 

Below were the QBs that I mentioned where you made a broad-brushed snarky statement about my crazy foolishness.  I'm simply asking for your basis.  (Do you have a basis before you get snarky, or is it just your nature?)

 

My idea of drafting them in the 1st or 2nd is about high level of play....for a long time.  Which ones out of these, maybe all of them in your opinion, do you have confidence in longevity of high play?  (Notice that I did not mention Allen or Wentz or Goff or even Daniel Jones) 

 

 Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield.

 

,

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, DougDew said:

Understanding the underpinnings of stats is not moving the goal posts.

 

I asked:  (for the third time) do these QBs come off of their first read and do they "throw the receivers open"?

 

The response was to throw out a lazy stat about accumulated totals, then imply it's an intelligent answer to the question. ( If a person can't answer the question, maybe they shouldn't pretend they can?)

 

Maybe more relevant stats would be?  What are Mahomes stats when he stays in the pocket (like having a bad ankle) and DOESN'T have Tyreek Hill (IOW, a talent) to throw to?  What were they in our game?

 

Model it.  Forecast it.  Take the game where he was a statue and had to make plays while remaining in the pocket and had to throw to a replacement quality receiver. Maybe they would still be great stats, IDK. 

 

I'm asking to look for some comparison of these QBs in the NFL and college to see if they resolve the primary complaints we have with JB.  Or, do they have some of the same shortcomings but make up for it in a different way?  

 

If I thought they could not read defenses, come off of their first read, then I would not pick them in the first or second round.  I haven't heard any evidence that they don't do exactly the same thing we criticize JB for doing.

 

Also (and I'm adding a layer of analysis, not moving the goal posts) don't we want a statue as a QB?  I mean, we just invested pick 6 in a LG to help give our QB a clean pocket for 4 seconds.  To get a proper return from that investment, we want a QB who is CAPABLE OF BEING A STATUE, who can read defenses, come off of their first read, and "throw the receivers open" while standing in the pocket.  

 

Can any of these QBs produce 5000 yards and 50 TDs by staying in the pocket for 4 seconds, play after play after play?  Where are the stats or evidence they can?

What we know 1:

JB struggles with progressions, missed open pass catchers, doesn't read Ds well, doesn't recognize the blitz, has a high time to throw etc.. These are all things he struggled with going back to college where his numbers were mediocre too.

 

What we know 2:

Comparing JB to Mahomes is non starter. They are nothing alike, and their games are nothing alike. What Mahomes doesn't do when he can't be mobile is irrelevant, as KC's offense isn't like ours, and is predicated on Mahomes being mobile and extending plays. Indy struggles with a healthy JB which is shown by our low point differential vs mediocre teams when he was healthy. KC only struggles when Mahomes is injured. Big difference. The same goes for Jackson/Baltimore.

 

What we know 3:

If Ballard goes for a QB in the draft, we should assume they are looking for someone that will excel in Reich's system which puts a premium on reading Ds, progressing quickly, and taking the occasional deep shot. They're not picking anyone that struggles with reads, or can't progress. 

[Myles]

On 12/2/2019 at 4:05 PM, DougDew said:

Not sure I'd want Mahomes, Lamar, or Desean, or Murray, or Darnold, or Rosen, or Trubisky, or Mayfield, or  just about any QB drafted in rounds 1 and 2 in the past three years.

You are crazy.

Any of those are elite.

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Thanks Eaststreet. Slowly learning to not reply to such  but some of the crazy comments get me going but it becomes and endless charade of more foolishness. 

Replying is fun though lol... Just try not to follow the rabbit down the hole.

[LockeDown]

pocket passer = longer career

[jvan1973]

On 12/3/2019 at 8:02 AM, MikeCurtis said:

 

Early morning ramblings....... Not enough coffee yet 

 

1) Cut the KICKER!!!    AV has to go.......  this week... its a matter of principle

 

Use a 6th round pick on the best college kicker available

 

2) Last 2 Games...... Practice Chad Kelly, Play Chad Kelly.....  If he sucketh..... You cut him in offseason..... find out what you have..... Is he the savior of the franchise? Prolly not

 

If he is not...... You cut the guy...... Why waste a roster spot?

 

3) Draft TWO QBs......   Wait.... What???

 

If CK is off the team,  We need an open competition for QB.

 

Hoyer needs to go.......   He got his money...... why have a backup that cant (hasnt) won a single game that he started???

 

Brisett is looking like he is a good backup at best... even though MPStack has a huge man crush on the guy!!!

 

I would go best available OT or DL with the 16th pick

 

I would draft Love with the Washington pick (Fingers crossed)

 

I would draft a WR (very long, talented list)..... there will be good ones available in the mid second

 

In the 3rd I would take best available 

 

In the 4th, I would take best available 

 

IN the 5th, if he is still on the board, I would take a shot at Daniels from WSU

 

You could end up with starting the season with JB then Love

 

In the long run, Love or Daniel will be the starter at QB......

 

Its SUCH an important spot...... why not double down?

 

I also would MUCH rather have a potential future starter, than a almost good enough backup........  A backup is someone you can trade for future value (If they show in preseason)

 

 

A LOOOONG way from draft day.......  but some initial rambling from an old dude in Texas

 

 

 

The first 3 or 4 things have zero chance of happening

[MPStack]

7 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

The first 3 or 4 things have zero chance of happening

Agreed! I never ever had a man crush on Brissett and still don’t. 

[Colts_Fan12]

7 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Agreed! I never ever had a man crush on Brissett and still don’t. 

many cant say this! The colts sub reddit was embarrassing lol

[MPStack]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

many cant say this! The colts sub reddit was embarrassing lol

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I’m pretty sure along time ago, I said Brissett was backup material. 
 

He’s a great “leader” though. 

[MikeCurtis]

17 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Agreed! I never ever had a man crush on Brissett and still don’t. 

You LOVE the guy!!!

 

Cmon fess up..... You have his poster on the wall.....