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zibby43

Ballard was at the Utah State game tonight (watching Jordan Love)

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45 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

Here are some highlights from the game:

 

 

 

 

That guy sucks not any better than Brissett if you don't believe me go to Utah State's team page and look up his numbers for the season in 11 games just 61% completion rate around 2300 yards passing 14 touchdowns 15 INT's that is terrible.

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34 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That guy sucks not any better than Brissett if you don't believe me go to Utah State's team page and look up his numbers for the season in 11 games just 61% completion rate around 2300 yards passing 14 touchdowns 15 INT's that is terrible.

 

Yeah.  That's why Chris Ballard personally flew out to attend the game to watch him. 

 

Because he sucks.

 

He's viewed as the next Patrick Mahomes in scouting circles.  When Love had a better supporting cast last year, his stats were as follows:

 

64% completion percentage

32 TDs

6 INTs

3,567 yards

 

But, the stats aren't everything.  All you have to do is watch his tape and look at the throws he makes.  His willingness to throw the ball into tight windows and consistently push the ball downfield is the antithesis to Brissett's game.

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Jordan Love is the one that want the most out of the ones we can get without trading up. I kind of wish Ballard would just give him a promise and hope he declares. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That guy sucks not any better than Brissett if you don't believe me go to Utah State's team page and look up his numbers for the season in 11 games just 61% completion rate around 2300 yards passing 14 touchdowns 15 INT's that is terrible.

Stop boxscore scouting. Watch some games of his. There is a lot to see from Love. He's a very good prospect with some high level traits. He needs developing, but the talent is there. He's a perfect QB to sit for a year behind Brissett and develop on the sidelines and in practice. 

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BTW this is not the first time Ballard has been linked to Jordan Love. There were stories from before the season that it was Jordan Love that he liked the most of the QBs this year. He also watched him against LSU earlier this year. IMO this is more than a regular "just doing his due diligence" in watching all types of players. GMs don't just randomly go to Utah State vs Boise state 1500 miles away from Indy. 

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In the current state of the Colts, Love in my opinion would be one of the better QB options in this upcoming draft. Particularly because he could be had with our second 2nd rounder, has some of the best traits, and would benefit most from sitting behind Brissett for a year. 

 

This should allow Ballard to address DT and WR, and then get Love with their 3rd pick unless they do some draft maneuvering. 

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3 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

In the current state of the Colts, Love in my opinion would be one of the better QB options in this upcoming draft. Particularly because he could be had with our second 2nd rounder, has some of the best traits, and would benefit most from sitting behind Brissett for a year. 

 

This should allow Ballard to address DT and WR, and then get Love with their 3rd pick unless they do some draft maneuvering. 

 

I wouldn't be sure the Colts can get him with their second pick in round 2. 

 

In 2018 there were 5 QBs drafted in round 1. I think 2020 will be similar to that. If if you look at the situation for each team there are lots of teams that will be looking to address QB early.

 

Bengals, Dolphins, Chargers, Titans, and Colts are all likely to take a QB early. I think the Panthers might too. Plus, there are some wild cards. Is Jon Gruden content with Derek Carr? Will the Bucs stick with Winston? What about the Saints and Pats?

 

If the Colts see a QB as the guy (whether it's Love or someone else) then they might have to take him in round 1 otherwise you risk losing him. And if you don't mind the risk of losing him then do you really like him/believe in him?

 

 

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As much as I believe In Brissett. I can’t hate on this. It is interesting that Ballard has personally seen him twice. It would be great if we could get him in second round and have him backup Brissett next year. 
 

I’m listening to this. Lol

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Very interesting. As much as I love Brissett, he isn't our long term answer if we want to make big playoff pushes. He's good, but not quite good enough. Love has the talent to be that guy, so bringing him in with one of our second round picks would be great IMO

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3 hours ago, stitches said:

Stop boxscore scouting. Watch some games of his. There is a lot to see from Love. He's a very good prospect with some high level traits. He needs developing, but the talent is there. He's a perfect QB to sit for a year behind Brissett and develop on the sidelines and in practice. 

Ya Brissett has high level traits too that you see one game then he is terrible the next 15 INT's isn't the answer more picks than TD's also isn't the answer.

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2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Ya Brissett has high level traits too that you see one game then he is terrible the next 15 INT's isn't the answer more picks than TD's also isn't the answer.

Have you actually watched him play a full game? TD/INT is not a great way to evaluate what a QB is and more importantly what he can be 2-3-5 years down the road.

 

Also, I disagree that Brissett has high level traits. The only high level thing for him is his arm strength and you almost never get to see it because he doesn't like throwing downfield. 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Have you actually watched him play a full game? TD/INT is not a great way to evaluate what a QB is and more importantly what he can be 2-3-5 years down the road.

 

Also, I disagree that Brissett has high level traits. The only high level thing for him is his arm strength and you almost never get to see it because he doesn't like throwing downfield. 

We don't have time to wait for a guy to either develop into the diamond you hope they can be we need somebody who can produce at a high level right now.

3rd round at the earliest 2nd round too early for a project.

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7 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

We don't have time to wait for a guy to either develop into the diamond you hope they can be we need somebody who can produce at a high level right now.

There is rarely a rookie QB who will produce at high level from the get go. Most rookie QBs are not great. You don't draft a QB for year 1. You draft him for the 10-15 years in the future. We cannot be short-sighted with this decision. He probably will need to sit year 1, but IMO Jacoby allows us to comfortably develop him without rushing him on the field. He gives us some base level of performance and even though I don't think he's high level QB, I think he'd be a good bridge QB. 

 

There really isn't a great solution for next year either way IMO. There are no high level QBs you will be able to have in FA, and you won't be able to trade up to the Joe Burrows of the world where you can draft him and expect him to start day 1. Like it or not, Luck screwed us over majorly by retiring and we just have to take it and make the best of it and the best of it IMO is to ASAP find a talented QB that we can develop into a high level NFL QB and Love is one of the players in this draft that has a lot of the ingredients for it. 

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

There is rarely a rookie QB who will produce at high level from the get go. Most rookie QBs are not great. You don't draft a QB for year 1. You draft him for the 10-15 years in the future. We cannot be short-sighted with this decision. He probably will need to sit year 1, but IMO Jacoby allows us to comfortably develop him without rushing him on the field. He gives us some base level of performance and even though I don't think he's high level QB, I think he'd be a good bridge QB. 

 

There really isn't a great solution for next year either way IMO. There are no high level QBs you will be able to have in FA, and you won't be able to trade up to the Joe Burrows of the world where you can draft him and expect him to start day 1. Like it or not, Luck screwed us over majorly by retiring and we just have to take it and make the best of it and the best of it IMO is to ASAP find a talented QB that we can develop into a high level NFL QB and Love is one of the players in this draft that has a lot of the ingredients for it. 

Jacoby is terrible another year of not contending coming right up.

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Ballard needs to use one of those 2nd round draft picks on a Quarterback. The first three picks in my opinion should be DT, WR, and QB; that would fill three needs for this team. Jordan Love is special, the arm talent is there, the escapability out of the pocket, the accuracy, and the vision. He's just not ready to start yet and I know Frank and the coaching staff can groom him into a great Quarterback. 

 

I read somewhere that Love would consider returning for his senior season at Utah State but I don't think that will happen. Maybe drafting a Quarterback will light a fire in Brissett who knows? I know I haven't been impressed seeing him under center. This isn't taking away from Jacoby as a person or his leadership abilities. Its his play when he steps onto the field. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ballard says he LOVES players who have great leadership and background and so many people rave about him and his work ethic. He is a small school with coaching not being that great compared to the top college coaches or NFL. He literally has all the traits to a Franchise Qb. This kid killed it last year when he had some talent and his coaches from last year. This year he had new coaches and new players so his play is taking a dive. I'll say this. If Ballard does draft him he will sit a year like Mahomes did and develop and be ready for the 2021 season. Perfectly fine with that as well.

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11 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

That guy sucks not any better than Brissett if you don't believe me go to Utah State's team page and look up his numbers for the season in 11 games just 61% completion rate around 2300 yards passing 14 touchdowns 15 INT's that is terrible.

Glad you aren't our head of scouting:rock:

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This is at least the 3rd, if not 4th personal scouting visit by Ballard to watch him live.

 

This means a lot. He can see how he interacts with teammates and coaches on the sidelines. He can see how his teammates respond to his leadership. He can see body language after bad plays. These are intangibles that are not always evident on film.

 

For the stat geeks that say his stats don't match the talent - same was said of Josh Allen with the Bills. That dude is balling out in spite of his mistakes......and the Bills are a winning team.

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1 hour ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Ballard says he LOVES players who have great leadership and background and so many people rave about him and his work ethic. He is a small school with coaching not being that great compared to the top college coaches or NFL. He literally has all the traits to a Franchise Qb. This kid killed it last year when he had some talent and his coaches from last year. This year he had new coaches and new players so his play is taking a dive. I'll say this. If Ballard does draft him he will sit a year like Mahomes did and develop and be ready for the 2021 season. Perfectly fine with that as well.

 

I hadn't read much about his intangibles, so that's great to hear.  Agree with you about his physical traits.  Also agree that sitting him will be the plan, if we select him. 

 

One nitpick though - Mike Sanford is his offensive coordinator.  He's a pretty darn good coach.

 

The offensive structure is vastly different from what he'll experience in the NFL, and his supporting cast isn't very good this year.  I'd say that's the main reason for his drop in statistical production.

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27 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

He is horrible.

 

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you're way off base here.

 

I could entertain you saying that he's good, but there are a few other prospects you like better, and read your explanation as to why you like the others more.  To say Love is "horrible" is so out of touch with reality that it comes across as trolling.

 

I say this with all due respect, but it may be best to admit you don't know very much about Love as a prospect, or how to evaluate QBs.  If you took that approach, I think you'd find that there are a lot of really intelligent, passionate fans on here that would walk you through why so many scouts, GMs, and members here are excited about Love. 

 

Nothing to be ashamed about.  I'm learning stuff every day.  Alternatively, if you derive more enjoyment from just flippantly throwing out baseless one-liners, more power to you. 

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43 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but you're way off base here.

 

I could entertain you saying that he's good, but there are a few other prospects you like better, and read your explanation as to why you like the others more.  To say Love is "horrible" is so out of touch with reality that it comes across as trolling.

 

I say this with all due respect, but it may be best to admit you don't know very much about Love as a prospect, or how to evaluate QBs.  If you took that approach, I think you'd find that there are a lot of really intelligent, passionate fans on here that would walk you through why so many scouts, GMs, and members here are excited about Love. 

 

Nothing to be ashamed about.  I'm learning stuff every day.  Alternatively, if you derive more enjoyment from just flippantly throwing out baseless one-liners, more power to you. 

Keep this in mind the defenses that guy plays against are trash so for him to put up those lackluster numbers against defenses that are not good isn't what I would call good now I get that some of the guys at the top will probably be busts too but im not gonna hold my breath on this guy being any good.

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3 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Keep this in mind the defenses that guy plays against are trash so for him to put up those lackluster numbers against defenses that are not good isn't what I would call good now I get that some of the guys at the top will probably be busts too but im not gonna hold my breath on this guy being any good.

 

His numbers last year weren't lackluster.  Not that any of that matters, anyway, which is a point that myself and others have made multiple times in this thread.  In the past 2 seasons, Utah State has played Michigan State, BYU 2x, Boise State 2x (ranked last year, and ranked again this year), Wake Forest (ranked this year), and #1 LSU.

 

Maybe should've taken my advice and done some research before throwing out another one-liner like "trash defenses."  Love's played well against all types of defenses. 

 

Aside from that, you evaluate the types of plays the player makes (his throws, his off-platform throws, his footwork/mobility in the pocket).  He's throwing 35-yard frozen ropes to the far hash like it's nothing.  It doesn't matter if he's playing the '85 Bears or the Little Giants, that's an elite throw. 

 

 

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I heard that he got an entire new coaching staff this season. Went from 32-6 TD to INT ratio last season, to 15-14 this year. That drastic of a change is going to be looked at as an indictment on the coaching staff and not him. You also can see the Patrick Mahomes comparison. Raw but a live arm and can make throws from every platform.

 

I was down on him to start the year. It’s well documented. But I’m doing more research now. The main thing for me is that he can push the ball up the field with mediocre talent around him. But him on this team with arguably the best O-line in football, Marlon Mack, Hilton, a healthy Campbell, and another weapon from the draft and wow. With Reich mentoring him you might have something special.

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18 minutes ago, zibby43 said:

 

His numbers last year weren't lackluster.  Not that any of that matters, anyway, which is a point that myself and others have made multiple times in this thread.  In the past 2 seasons, Utah State has played Michigan State, BYU 2x, Boise State 2x (ranked last year, and ranked again this year), Wake Forest (ranked this year), and #1 LSU.

 

Maybe should've taken my advice and done some research before throwing out another one-liner like "trash defenses."  Love's played well against all types of defenses. 

 

Aside from that, you evaluate the types of plays the player makes (his throws, his off-platform throws, his footwork/mobility in the pocket).  He's throwing 35-yard frozen ropes to the far hash like it's nothing.  It doesn't matter if he's playing the '85 Bears or the Little Giants, that's an elite throw. 

 

 

3int's against LSU isn't what I would call playing good.

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5 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

3int's against LSU isn't what I would call playing good.

 

Wasn't his best game, but he still made plenty of incredible throws.

 

Since you love traditional stats, let's play a game.

 

Hypothetically, a rookie NFL QB posts the following stats for the season: 26 TDs, 28 INTs, 56.7% completion percentage.

 

After that performance, would you start looking for a replacement?

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13 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Wasn't his best game, but he still made plenty of incredible throws.

 

Since you love traditional stats, let's play a game.

 

Hypothetically, a rookie NFL QB posts the following stats for the season: 26 TDs, 28 INTs, 56.7% completion percentage.

 

After that performance, would you start looking for a replacement?

Mannings rookie year? He turned out ok

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13 minutes ago, Shafty138 said:

Mannings rookie year? He turned out ok


Dude, you spoiled it lol.

 

But yes, you’re correct.

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13 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

Wasn't his best game, but he still made plenty of incredible throws.

 

Since you love traditional stats, let's play a game.

 

Hypothetically, a rookie NFL QB posts the following stats for the season: 26 TDs, 28 INTs, 56.7% completion percentage.

 

After that performance, would you start looking for a replacement?

No I would wait and see if the number of turnovers come down if they do great if not then I would ask the question is it coaching or is this guy just a bust then go from there. Now I did look at the difference from last year in 2018 to this year and the numbers per game average for their offense as a whole were a lot better last year then this year why that is don't know they must have had some guys that were good leave via draft or transfer.

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:27 AM, BProland85 said:

In the current state of the Colts, Love in my opinion would be one of the better QB options in this upcoming draft. Particularly because he could be had with our second 2nd rounder, has some of the best traits, and would benefit most from sitting behind Brissett for a year. 

 

This should allow Ballard to address DT and WR, and then get Love with their 3rd pick unless they do some draft maneuvering. 

 

I don't see him falling into the 2nd.  

 

Love has probably the highest ceiling in the draft.  You teach him to make better decisions and he's instantly a top 5 QB.  Possibly top 2.

 

At the top GM's are probably going to aim for the more sure thing QB's.  But guys with extremely high ceilings are often taken in the first.  Pat Mahomes wasn't considered the top QB in his class and didn't sniff falling to the 2nd round.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't see him falling into the 2nd.  

 

Love has probably the highest ceiling in the draft.  You teach him to make better decisions and he's instantly a top 5 QB.  Possibly top 2.

 

At the top GM's are probably going to aim for the more sure thing QB's.  But guys with extremely high ceilings are often taken in the first.  Pat Mahomes wasn't considered the top QB in his class and didn't sniff falling to the 2nd round.

 

 

yeah I'm pretty sure we will have to take Love with our 1st and go DT with our Redskins pick followed by WR with our 2nd rounder

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54 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

I don't see him falling into the 2nd.  

 

Love has probably the highest ceiling in the draft.  You teach him to make better decisions and he's instantly a top 5 QB.  Possibly top 2.

 

At the top GM's are probably going to aim for the more sure thing QB's.  But guys with extremely high ceilings are often taken in the first.  Pat Mahomes wasn't considered the top QB in his class and didn't sniff falling to the 2nd round.

 

 

Agreed. Some of the draft media who actually talk to evaluators (Tony Pauline, Dane Brugler) still have Love pegged in the early teens. My guess is he’s going to kill the pre-draft process enough that Ballard might have to execute a small trade-up to get him.
 

Which would be justified in my opinion. Great arm, great athlete, and, given his background, seems to be a tough kid as well. 

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All of these reports about Ballard attending this game and all of the scouts we have watching him will certainly draw other GM's to him if they haven't been already.  I dare say he will not make it to the Colts in the 1st round unless we trade up like the Giants did last year.  If he has that much talent and upside he won't make it to the 2nd round.  BB would probably trade up to get him in the 1st and not wait for him to fall.  He's going to need a new QB sooner rather than later.  

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There are other players besides Love in this game.

Has Ballard said he was there just to look at Love? I doubt it. 

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12 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There are other players besides Love in this game.

Has Ballard said he was there just to look at Love? I doubt it. 

 

It's a virtual certainty (99%) that Ballard was at the Utah State game primarily to evaluate Love.  Sure, maybe he took note of some guys on Boise State's roster while he was there, but the Colts have been scouting Love all season, and Ballard's presence at one of Love's last games of the season is a pretty dead giveaway.

 

A nice highlight compilation:

 

 

 

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A lot of this conversation on this thread seems to be centered on whether a qb taken will displace Brissett, but we have a back up qb who we all agree doesn't inspire any confidence by his play and will almost certainly be a bigger cap hit than a qb on a rookie contract for 4 years. 

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I think Irsay, Ballard and Reich are going to go all in and try to get Luck to return to the team.  Irsay hasn't asked for a penny back on his contract and if he requests a sit down with Andrew I think Andrew will give it to him.  By the time the season is over a lot of time will have gone by and Andrew would have had a lot of time to heal and to think about a possible return or to stick with his original decision to retire.  I think Love and the rest are back up plans in the event he decides to stay retired.  I think plan A is to get Luck back and plan B is to draft a QB who can play behind JB for a year and see where we are at the end of next year.  JMO

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49 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think Irsay, Ballard and Reich are going to go all in and try to get Luck to return to the team.  Irsay hasn't asked for a penny back on his contract and if he requests a sit down with Andrew I think Andrew will give it to him.  By the time the season is over a lot of time will have gone by and Andrew would have had a lot of time to heal and to think about a possible return or to stick with his original decision to retire.  I think Love and the rest are back up plans in the event he decides to stay retired.  I think plan A is to get Luck back and plan B is to draft a QB who can play behind JB for a year and see where we are at the end of next year.  JMO

 

I hope to be wrong but I honestly think that Luck is done.  Sure he'll take the call because he has a relationship with Ballard/Reich/Hilton/Irsay.  But in the end I think he'll end up saying "You know I've made up my mind.  I don't want to risk spending another year re-habbing another injury."

 

 

 

 

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