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Four2itus

Future at WR

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A good QB makes any receiver look good. Let's start in that direction 

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:31 AM, MikeCurtis said:

A sombering thought on WRs......

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/10/draft-wide-receiver-wr-first-round-busts-kyle-lauletta-jimmy-garoppolo-chad-kanoff-princeton

 

I would almost rather overpay for a FA WR.  Drafting the next star at WR, seems to be a higher risk

 

If we get better QB play, and keep blocking........  a good (not great) WR can be effective

 

I would want us to keep going on the lines

 

Or......  get a QB to develop

 

 

 

 

Nonsense  somebody like riggs, Judy, lamb, and claypool  would all take the offense  to the next level.

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:31 AM, MikeCurtis said:

A sombering thought on WRs......

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/10/draft-wide-receiver-wr-first-round-busts-kyle-lauletta-jimmy-garoppolo-chad-kanoff-princeton

 

I would almost rather overpay for a FA WR.  Drafting the next star at WR, seems to be a higher risk

 

If we get better QB play, and keep blocking........  a good (not great) WR can be effective

 

I would want us to keep going on the lines

 

Or......  get a QB to develop

Articles like that are a bit irritating. While there is some truth and good points, their overall objective is click bait. I've listed the last 5 years of 1st round WRs below. Not bad at all. Most WRs need at least 2 years if not 3 to get in the groove, so his article was "off" from the start IMO. Anyway, let me know your thoughts. IMO, WR is just like any other positions, and has similar Pro Bowl and Bust rates as DL. I have zero problem with taking WRs in the 1st round, but prefer not to this year lol.... If you're interested in bust rates, I've linked an article below the stats. 

 

2019

1-25 Marquise Brown BAL:  2nd in WR stats for Balt, rookie record for TDs

1-32 N'Keal Harry NE: IR most of the year

2018

1-24 DJ Moore CAR: ~800 and ~1200 yard seasons

1-26 Calvin Ridley ATL: back to back 800+ yard seasons, rookie records

2017

1-5 Corey Davis TN: a bit of up and down, but averaging 600+ in 3 seasons

1-7 Mike Williams LAC - 600 and 1000 in years 2 and 3

1-9 John Ross CIN: 200ish in year 2, 500+ in year three in 8 games (IR)

2016

1-15 Corey Coleman CLE: Behavioral issues, 2 broken hands, torn ACL

1-21 Will Fuller HOU: Averaging 10 games and 500 yards per season due to injuries.

1-22 Josh Doctson WAS: 400, 400, 1000, 1300 in 4 seasons

1-23 Laquon Treadwell MN: low production over 4 seasons

2015

1-4 Amari Cooper OAK: Averaging 1000 yards per season in 5 years

1-7 Kevin White CHI: a bunch of injury

1-14 DeVante Parker MIA: averaging 700 per season, and 1200 last

1-20 Nelson Agholor PHI: averaging 500 per season and 12ish games per year

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

Nonsense  somebody like riggs, Judy, lamb, and claypool  would all take the offense  to the next level.

only if you have a good QB

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5 hours ago, Stephen said:

Nonsense  somebody like riggs, Judy, lamb, and claypool  would all take the offense  to the next level.

 Give me some Claypool!

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On 3/8/2020 at 4:57 PM, EastStreet said:

Articles like that are a bit irritating. While there is some truth and good points, their overall objective is click bait. I've listed the last 5 years of 1st round WRs below. Not bad at all. Most WRs need at least 2 years if not 3 to get in the groove, so his article was "off" from the start IMO. Anyway, let me know your thoughts. IMO, WR is just like any other positions, and has similar Pro Bowl and Bust rates as DL. I have zero problem with taking WRs in the 1st round, but prefer not to this year lol.... If you're interested in bust rates, I've linked an article below the stats. 

 

2019

1-25 Marquise Brown BAL:  2nd in WR stats for Balt, rookie record for TDs

1-32 N'Keal Harry NE: IR most of the year

2018

1-24 DJ Moore CAR: ~800 and ~1200 yard seasons

1-26 Calvin Ridley ATL: back to back 800+ yard seasons, rookie records

2017

1-5 Corey Davis TN: a bit of up and down, but averaging 600+ in 3 seasons

1-7 Mike Williams LAC - 600 and 1000 in years 2 and 3

1-9 John Ross CIN: 200ish in year 2, 500+ in year three in 8 games (IR)

2016

1-15 Corey Coleman CLE: Behavioral issues, 2 broken hands, torn ACL

1-21 Will Fuller HOU: Averaging 10 games and 500 yards per season due to injuries.

1-22 Josh Doctson WAS: 400, 400, 1000, 1300 in 4 seasons

1-23 Laquon Treadwell MN: low production over 4 seasons

2015

1-4 Amari Cooper OAK: Averaging 1000 yards per season in 5 years

1-7 Kevin White CHI: a bunch of injury

1-14 DeVante Parker MIA: averaging 700 per season, and 1200 last

1-20 Nelson Agholor PHI: averaging 500 per season and 12ish games per year

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

only if you have a good QB

Have to see how the chips fall

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On 11/22/2019 at 6:19 PM, DougDew said:

I think both Ebron and Doyle's contracts expire, and we need to do something with the TE position. 

They just extended Doyle with a 3 year $21 million contract in December

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On 11/22/2019 at 4:00 PM, Chloe6124 said:

We need to keep Campbell and TY. I am ok with keeping pascal. We could use two WR. One in FA and in the draft. The entire group needs a overall.

 

I'd be fine seeing a guy like Fountain or Marcus Johnson (doubtful since we didn't tender him) or even Rogers as our 5th WR.  

 

We definitely need to add someone to really be a true #1a or #2 WR to help TY.  I like TY a lot, but at his size with his reliance on speed, the calf/ankle injuries he's had the past two years are starting to make me believe his body is starting to break down a bit.  When he's not at full-speed, he's pretty easy for other teams to take out of games when he doesn't have another legit weapon around him.

 

I think Campbell can develop into that type of player.  Sounds like Reich and Ballard are very high on him from his limited time last year.  However, for the next year or two while he's still honing himself as a true WR, I think he could be a killer swiss army knife type player on our offense if we had a true #1a/2 to go along with TY.  I envision him being used similarly to how we used him against Pitt last year (3 rushes for 27 yards, 5 receptions for 53 yards, plus 2 KO returns for 62 yards -- 142 total yards).

 

On 11/22/2019 at 5:26 PM, DougDew said:

That list is pathetic. 

 

Harrison and Wayne soaked up a lot of years not needing to draft one, but post 2012 has really no excuse.  In Manning's early years, Polian at least tried to give him help with Pathon and Green, then when they didn't work out, tried again with Wayne and it stuck.

 

We tried once since 2012 to give Luck help and then gave up.  Pathetic.

 

I thought EG Green was a heckuva player, but he could never stay healthy.  

 

We certainly need to address the WR position.  However, I think we 'tried' more than once to help Luck since 2012.  We got him TY, Fleener, Dwayne Allen in year 1.  We also brought in Brazill (who I thought was a decent player if he didn't get in trouble with the law).  We also signed Donnie Avery who was decent for us.

 

In 2013, we signed Darrius Heyward-Bey, which was very poor judgement by Grigs (surprise, surprise).  He still tried to help Luck, the guy just couldn't catch a ball of velcro.

 

In 2014, we signed Hakeem Nicks (another failure of Grigs) and drafted Moncrief.  Moncrief wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't very good for us.  

 

In 2015, we drafted Dorsett.  I think we had the fastest WR group in the NFL with Dorsett, Moncrief and TY all being 4.3ish 40 yard dash guys.  Dorsett was OK, but nothing special.  He's done slightly better in NE.  We also signed Andre Johnson (who earlier in his career was a 4.3 guy).  Unfortunately like Grigs' attempt at Nicks, AJ was washed up by the time he got here.  Grigs also tried the Duron Carter experiment, which didn't workout.

 

Since Ballard's been here, other than drafting Fountain and signing Cain as a UDFA, the only real moves he's made to try to help the WR group is Funchess and Campbell last year.  Funchess looked like he had nice chemistry with JB, but got hurt so early in the year.  Campbell showed glimpses, but was also hurt most of the year.  I guess Ballard also brought in Ebron at TE as a WR-like TE.

 

So we've tried more than once to help the WR Group... we just haven't been successful at it.  IMO, we really need to try again this year and make sure it's a success.

 

 

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On 11/22/2019 at 3:37 PM, Four2itus said:

 

 

My first observation is, since the Manning era beginning in 1996, the Colts have never valued a WR above the 30th pick to be worth the selection. Since coming to Indy, they have drafted..

M. Harrison @ 19

Sean Dawkins @ 16

Andre Rison @ 22

One is in the HOF, one should/could be, and one failed. Looks like the odds are pretty good drafting a WR above the 25th pick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't call Dawkins a failure.  He had 7 straight seasons with 50+ receptions.  

 

He wasn't a HOF caliber guy, but he had some productive years for us (his best was '97 with 68 receptions) and then with other teams.  

 

Maybe not exactly what you want from a 16th overall pick, but he was a pretty good player.  

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3 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I'd be fine seeing a guy like Fountain or Marcus Johnson (doubtful since we didn't tender him) or even Rogers as our 5th WR.  

 

We definitely need to add someone to really be a true #1a or #2 WR to help TY.  I like TY a lot, but at his size with his reliance on speed, the calf/ankle injuries he's had the past two years are starting to make me believe his body is starting to break down a bit.  When he's not at full-speed, he's pretty easy for other teams to take out of games when he doesn't have another legit weapon around him.

 

I think Campbell can develop into that type of player.  Sounds like Reich and Ballard are very high on him from his limited time last year.  However, for the next year or two while he's still honing himself as a true WR, I think he could be a killer swiss army knife type player on our offense if we had a true #1a/2 to go along with TY.  I envision him being used similarly to how we used him against Pitt last year (3 rushes for 27 yards, 5 receptions for 53 yards, plus 2 KO returns for 62 yards -- 142 total yards).

 

 

I thought EG Green was a heckuva player, but he could never stay healthy.  

 

We certainly need to address the WR position.  However, I think we 'tried' more than once to help Luck since 2012.  We got him TY, Fleener, Dwayne Allen in year 1.  We also brought in Brazill (who I thought was a decent player if he didn't get in trouble with the law).  We also signed Donnie Avery who was decent for us.

 

In 2013, we signed Darrius Heyward-Bey, which was very poor judgement by Grigs (surprise, surprise).  He still tried to help Luck, the guy just couldn't catch a ball of velcro.

 

In 2014, we signed Hakeem Nicks (another failure of Grigs) and drafted Moncrief.  Moncrief wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't very good for us.  

 

In 2015, we drafted Dorsett.  I think we had the fastest WR group in the NFL with Dorsett, Moncrief and TY all being 4.3ish 40 yard dash guys.  Dorsett was OK, but nothing special.  He's done slightly better in NE.  We also signed Andre Johnson (who earlier in his career was a 4.3 guy).  Unfortunately like Grigs' attempt at Nicks, AJ was washed up by the time he got here.  Grigs also tried the Duron Carter experiment, which didn't workout.

 

Since Ballard's been here, other than drafting Fountain and signing Cain as a UDFA, the only real moves he's made to try to help the WR group is Funchess and Campbell last year.  Funchess looked like he had nice chemistry with JB, but got hurt so early in the year.  Campbell showed glimpses, but was also hurt most of the year.  I guess Ballard also brought in Ebron at TE as a WR-like TE.

 

So we've tried more than once to help the WR Group... we just haven't been successful at it.  IMO, we really need to try again this year and make sure it's a success.

 

 

Every player you mentioned was either a stop gap 1 or possibly 2 year deal, or a late round draft pick.  Fleener was help, but DA was just the BPA at the time.

 

The only investment made to help Luck was Dorsett, who is also the most severely criticized on this forum.  Just goes to show how much people don't understand.

 

Also, PM got Edgerrin as help too.  Our GMs signed barely broken down RBs or mid roiund/late picks.

 

Not really making an investment to help Luck....sort of just getting by and making Luck fix the problem with great QB play.  I'm sure he got tired of it after 6 years.

 

No wonder he made up fake leg pain to retire. 

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5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Every player you mentioned was either a stop gap 1 or possibly 2 year deal, or a late round draft pick.  Fleener was help, but DA was just the BPA at the time.

 

The only investment made to help Luck was Dorsett, who is also the most severely criticized on this forum.  Just goes to show how much people don't understand.

 

Also, PM got Edgerrin as help too.  Our GMs signed barely broken down RBs or mid roiund/late picks.

 

Not really making an investment to help Luck....sort of just getting by and making Luck fix the problem with great QB play.  I'm sure he got tired of it after 6 years.

 

No wonder he made up fake leg pain to retire. 

 

I think DHB was intended to help long term.  He was 26 when we signed him.  He was a former 7th overall draft pick.  He's a burner.  I think the thought process was with him as a bigger (6'2" 220 lbs.) guy who could run a 4.30 forty alongside TY who is a smaller guy that ran a 4.34 forty out of college, we could blow the top off defenses with speed and Luck's arm.  Unfortunately, DHB couldn't run routes well and had butter fingers.

 

Hakeem Nicks was also only 26 when we signed him.  He had a few very productive years with NYG before we signed him.  He had an amazing post-season in 2012 when they won the SB.  He had some nagging injuries, but cleared his physical before we signed him.  He never really returned to pre-injury form though and unfortunately was a bust.

 

Moncrief was a guy who was certainly intended to be a long term solution.  He was bigger at 6'2" 215 lbs. and also a burner with a 4.4 forty at the combine.  He showed promise in year 2 with 64 receptions.  Unfortunately, he had some injuries and never really reached his potential (in part due to injuries, in part due to never really becoming a refined route runner and in part due to inconsistent hands.... and in part due to Andrew getting injured his last year in Indy).

 

I see your point on Gore and A. Johnson as stop gap guys.  However, Gore was still playing at a high level (granted we had an abysmal o-line) and even last year was playing at a high level.  AJ was just washed up when he came over to us.

 

We did give Luck a legit RB threat with Mack.  We also gave him two pro-bowl TEs in Doyle and Ebron.  And I believe Funchess was a test last year, where if he was playing well that we would have tried to extend him mid-season.  

 

But yea, Grigs certainly never did anything to seriously try to give Luck a solid line and did a poor job of giving him weapons (outside of TY and a couple others)... assume you're kidding about him faking a leg injury, but I'm sure he had to be extremely frustrated with the way the organization handled the rest of the team during his duration in Indy.  He was a franchise QB and Grigs let him take a lot more punishment than just about any other franchise QB across the league that I've seen in my lifetime.

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16 minutes ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

I think DHB was intended to help long term.  He was 26 when we signed him.  He was a former 7th overall draft pick.  He's a burner.  I think the thought process was with him as a bigger (6'2" 220 lbs.) guy who could run a 4.30 forty alongside TY who is a smaller guy that ran a 4.34 forty out of college, we could blow the top off defenses with speed and Luck's arm.  Unfortunately, DHB couldn't run routes well and had butter fingers.

 

Hakeem Nicks was also only 26 when we signed him.  He had a few very productive years with NYG before we signed him.  He had an amazing post-season in 2012 when they won the SB.  He had some nagging injuries, but cleared his physical before we signed him.  He never really returned to pre-injury form though and unfortunately was a bust.

 

Moncrief was a guy who was certainly intended to be a long term solution.  He was bigger at 6'2" 215 lbs. and also a burner with a 4.4 forty at the combine.  He showed promise in year 2 with 64 receptions.  Unfortunately, he had some injuries and never really reached his potential (in part due to injuries, in part due to never really becoming a refined route runner and in part due to inconsistent hands.... and in part due to Andrew getting injured his last year in Indy).

 

I see your point on Gore and A. Johnson as stop gap guys.  However, Gore was still playing at a high level (granted we had an abysmal o-line) and even last year was playing at a high level.  AJ was just washed up when he came over to us.

 

We did give Luck a legit RB threat with Mack.  We also gave him two pro-bowl TEs in Doyle and Ebron.  And I believe Funchess was a test last year, where if he was playing well that we would have tried to extend him mid-season.  

 

But yea, Grigs certainly never did anything to seriously try to give Luck a solid line and did a poor job of giving him weapons (outside of TY and a couple others)... assume you're kidding about him faking a leg injury, but I'm sure he had to be extremely frustrated with the way the organization handled the rest of the team during his duration in Indy.  He was a franchise QB and Grigs let him take a lot more punishment than just about any other franchise QB across the league that I've seen in my lifetime.

LOL.  But no, Ballard never gave him much in the weapons department, other than stop gaps/cast offs and mid/late round picks.

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37 minutes ago, DougDew said:

LOL.  But no, Ballard never gave him much in the weapons department, other than stop gaps/cast offs and mid/late round picks.

 

Ballard gave him a  top 5 o-line right off the bat.  I think the goal being to keep Andrew from getting killed, like Grigs had him on the path for.

 

Ballard inherited a pretty shotty team.  It made sense that he tried to patch the D up and give Andrew an OL before he really started focusing on weapons for him.  I think I'd call Marlon Mack and Nyheim Hines solid weapons.  TBH, if I were Andrew I think I'd rather Big Q and Braden Smith to keep me upright and give me time to throw to so-so WRs than to be given solid WRs and be running for my life every time the ball got hiked to me.

 

 

 

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On 3/8/2020 at 7:37 PM, TimetobringDfence! said:

 Give me some Claypool!

Careful with that,you will be told he isnt as good as Fountain lol.

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16 hours ago, CurBeatElite said:

 

Ballard gave him a  top 5 o-line right off the bat.  I think the goal being to keep Andrew from getting killed, like Grigs had him on the path for.

 

Ballard inherited a pretty shotty team.  It made sense that he tried to patch the D up and give Andrew an OL before he really started focusing on weapons for him.  I think I'd call Marlon Mack and Nyheim Hines solid weapons.  TBH, if I were Andrew I think I'd rather Big Q and Braden Smith to keep me upright and give me time to throw to so-so WRs than to be given solid WRs and be running for my life every time the ball got hiked to me.

 

 

 

LOL.  Grigson haters seem to always have to find a way to get their digs in.

 

This thread is about WR.  My contribution was to point out the equal failures of both of our GMs to get Luck help at the WR position.  Going a bit farther within that same spectrum of skilled positions, they also did not get him help in the RB position.  If you want to separate Grigson from Ballard, Grigson was the one who appears to have tried harder to invest more capital in the skilled positions, including drafting a WR in the first and trading a first for a RB (both bad players unfortunately).  Ballard hasn't done anything except add 4th round draft picks and an underachieving TE who had one good year.  He finally drafted PC last year.

 

All of this is a larger point when compared to what Polian did with PM immediately upon drafting PM which was to get him two WRs in the same draft, then EJ in the next draft.  And when Green and Pathon could not cut it, he drafted Reggie in the first round despite already having Marvin, and then first rounders in Clark and Addai (and tried again with Gonzalez).

 

Shazam, we had a top 5 passing game.

 

I didn't bring up the oline because I don't need to work in a Ballard-Defense clause into every thread that might wander into a criticism of Ballard, which was not my point of looking at the history of the Colts' WR position.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

LOL.  Grigson haters seem to always have to find a way to get their digs in.

 

This thread is about WR.  My contribution was to point out the equal failures of both of our GMs to get Luck help at the WR position.  Going a bit farther within that same spectrum of skilled positions, they also did not get him help in the RB position.  If you want to separate Grigson from Ballard, Grigson was the one who appears to have tried harder to invest more capital in the skilled positions, including drafting a WR in the first and trading a first for a RB (both bad players unfortunately).  Ballard hasn't done anything except add 4th round draft picks and an underachieving TE who had one good year.  He finally drafted PC last year.

 

All of this is a larger point when compared to what Polian did with PM immediately upon drafting PM which was to get him two WRs in the same draft, then EJ in the next draft.  And when Green and Pathon could not cut it, he drafted Reggie in the first round despite already having Marvin, and then first rounders in Clark and Addai (and tried again with Gonzalez).

 

Shazam, we had a top 5 passing game.

 

I didn't bring up the oline because I don't need to work in a Ballard-Defense clause into every thread that might wander into a criticism of Ballard, which was not my point of looking at the history of the Colts' WR position.

One thing you have to take into consideration is Ballards picks and free agent signings of receivers is the injury factors. Going into last season the receiver position was thought to be covered and it sure wasn't thought to be a position of dire need. 

You can't call injured players bust and lump them into the Grigson category as comparing the two GMs. 

 

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22 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

One thing you have to take into consideration is Ballards picks and free agent signings of receivers is the injury factors. Going into last season the receiver position was thought to be covered and it sure wasn't thought to be a position of dire need. 

You can't call injured players bust and lump them into the Grigson category as comparing the two GMs. 

 

Its all the same rearranging of the chairs.  Ballard has signed FA WRs the same way Grigson did.  Cast-off or underachieving vets to short term contracts.  DHB, Nicks, AJ, Funchess; all follow the same strategy.  Ebron too.  

 

If somebody would draft a top flight WR in the first or second round, where the intent of the capital invested means that you expect the player to be here 3 to 4 years and earn a second contract after that, that would be a change of strategy, IMO.

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15 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its all the same rearranging of the chairs.  Ballard has signed FA WRs the same way Grigson did.  Cast-off or underachieving vets to short term contracts.  DHB, Nicks, AJ, Funchess; all follow the same strategy.  Ebron too.  

 

If somebody would draft a top flight WR in the first or second round, where the intent of the capital invested means that you expect the player to be here 3 to 4 years and earn a second contract after that, that would be a change of strategy, IMO.

Ballard was in a bind with the injuries last season he had no choice but to put enough receivers on the field.

When you have to draft the trenches before any other positions with top notch linemen it makes no difference that you draft a receiver in the top two rounds. What good is a 1st or 2nd round receiver when the o-line don't do a decent job?  Regardless of the talent level of the QB, WRs and RBs the games are won and lost in the trenches. 

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5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Ballard was in a bind with the injuries last season he had no choice but to put enough receivers on the field.

When you have to draft the trenches before any other positions with top notch linemen it makes no difference that you draft a receiver in the top two rounds. What good is a 1st or 2nd round receiver when the o-line don't do a decent job?  Regardless of the talent level of the QB, WRs and RBs the games are won and lost in the trenches. 

Why do you choose to ignore the success with had with PM and bunch of mid round olineman, but first round skill position players?  I just gave you the factual history a couple of posts ago.

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5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Why do you choose to ignore the success with had with PM and bunch of mid round olineman, but first round skill position players?  I just gave you the factual history a couple of posts ago.

If your standard is a QB who can duplicate Peyton's analysis, successful decisions,  and release in 2 seconds, you'll be waiting a lifetime. None of those available to the Colts today can come close.

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23 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

If your standard is a QB who can duplicate Peyton's analysis, successful decisions,  and release in 2 seconds, you'll be waiting a lifetime. None of those available to the Colts today can come close.

Agree.  I was talking more about the success of Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, and Joseph Addai.  All first round picks.  Not to mention Anthony Gonzalez and Donald Brown, whom we tried to reload the skilled positions with first round picks but failed.

 

Its about the difference in how hour GMS invested capital in skill positions over the years...and the results.

 

Of course, QB has a lot to do with it, but its not everything.

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9 hours ago, DougDew said:

Why do you choose to ignore the success with had with PM and bunch of mid round olineman, but first round skill position players?  I just gave you the factual history a couple of posts ago.

List me the names of the QBs that had the fast release, the timing patterns and the abilities that Manning had. 

Manning was a generational QB and you want to use him as an example? Get real. 

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peyotn was a once in a lifetime player with no real comparisons expect maybe eli, who was like peyton light 

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The issue is AC is coming back. We don’t need to use a 1st rd pick on one this yea

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

 

Of course, QB has a lot to do with it, but its not everything.

Peyton did all that in 2 seconds. JB uses 6 to do his read, then runs because the openings have closed.  JB would have been killed behind a sub-standard, pre-Ballard OLine.  Andrew Luck almost was....

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On 3/11/2020 at 4:35 AM, CurBeatElite said:

 

I'd be fine seeing a guy like Fountain or Marcus Johnson (doubtful since we didn't tender him) or even Rogers as our 5th WR.  

 

We definitely need to add someone to really be a true #1a or #2 WR to help TY.  I like TY a lot, but at his size with his reliance on speed, the calf/ankle injuries he's had the past two years are starting to make me believe his body is starting to break down a bit.  When he's not at full-speed, he's pretty easy for other teams to take out of games when he doesn't have another legit weapon around him.

 

I think Campbell can develop into that type of player.  Sounds like Reich and Ballard are very high on him from his limited time last year.  However, for the next year or two while he's still honing himself as a true WR, I think he could be a killer swiss army knife type player on our offense if we had a true #1a/2 to go along with TY.  I envision him being used similarly to how we used him against Pitt last year (3 rushes for 27 yards, 5 receptions for 53 yards, plus 2 KO returns for 62 yards -- 142 total yards).

 

 

I thought EG Green was a heckuva player, but he could never stay healthy.  

 

We certainly need to address the WR position.  However, I think we 'tried' more than once to help Luck since 2012.  We got him TY, Fleener, Dwayne Allen in year 1.  We also brought in Brazill (who I thought was a decent player if he didn't get in trouble with the law).  We also signed Donnie Avery who was decent for us.

 

In 2013, we signed Darrius Heyward-Bey, which was very poor judgement by Grigs (surprise, surprise).  He still tried to help Luck, the guy just couldn't catch a ball of velcro.

 

In 2014, we signed Hakeem Nicks (another failure of Grigs) and drafted Moncrief.  Moncrief wasn't terrible, but certainly wasn't very good for us.  

 

In 2015, we drafted Dorsett.  I think we had the fastest WR group in the NFL with Dorsett, Moncrief and TY all being 4.3ish 40 yard dash guys.  Dorsett was OK, but nothing special.  He's done slightly better in NE.  We also signed Andre Johnson (who earlier in his career was a 4.3 guy).  Unfortunately like Grigs' attempt at Nicks, AJ was washed up by the time he got here.  Grigs also tried the Duron Carter experiment, which didn't workout.

 

Since Ballard's been here, other than drafting Fountain and signing Cain as a UDFA, the only real moves he's made to try to help the WR group is Funchess and Campbell last year.  Funchess looked like he had nice chemistry with JB, but got hurt so early in the year.  Campbell showed glimpses, but was also hurt most of the year.  I guess Ballard also brought in Ebron at TE as a WR-like TE.

 

So we've tried more than once to help the WR Group... we just haven't been successful at it.  IMO, we really need to try again this year and make sure it's a success.

 

 

hard to do it with just draft picks. they are a crapshoot

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4 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

hard to do it with just draft picks. they are a crapshoot

All draft picks are a crapshoot regardless of position. It's the best way to build a healthy a roster though, and why the GM and scouts get paid the big bucks.

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