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Future at WR

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8 minutes ago, Hoose said:

Well said. Gonna have to bite the bullet and pay the draft price for a great WR. Jacoby’s future is a different issue.....apples and oranges.  The need to upgrade at WR is glaringly obvious regardless of who is behind Center. 

Thank you. That is what I made this post about. Look how much the selection of Reggie Wayne helped this franchise. Ty is starting to miss some games. The team needs a star WR to grow alongside him. 

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4 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

We're 29th in Passing Yards, and only 2 other teams average less than 200 per game: the Bears, and Dolphins.

We're really bad, and it's in large part due to Jacoby Brissett, because Andrew Luck killed it last year with this set of weapons. Only real difference was Dontrelle Inman lol, TY missed the same amount of time, Luck didn't have Parris Campbell obv, and no Jack Doyle last year. Plus, Luck didn't have the full, healthy, oline til Week 8. No excuses, JB isn't the longterm answer.

If you remember this WR group struggled until Inman was brought in. After that KC loss everyone was screaming we need better WR because they were not getting separation.

 

JB is under contact for one more year. The smart thing to do is upgrade and hope everyone stays healthy. Give him the offseason to work on his faults and then make a decision. Unless someone unexpectedly falls to us I don’t think they need to be in a hurry. I will be curious if he can get all his weapons back these last four or five games if things improve.  

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8 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If you remember this WR group struggled until Inman was brought in. After that KC loss everyone was screaming we need better WR because they were not getting separation.

 

JB is under contact for one more year. The smart thing to do is upgrade and hope everyone stays healthy. Give him the offseason to work on his faults and then make a decision. Unless someone unexpectedly falls to us I don’t think they need to be in a hurry. I will be curious if he can get all his weapons back these last four or five games if things improve.  

 

I wonder if you know what you're saying sometimes, and I'm not trying to be mean, I legit wonder. How did they struggle til Inman came in? Inman had 28 catches in 9 games (2 of which he did absolutely nothing) for a grand total of 304 yards and 3 scores. That's nothing. 

 

Luck had 10 games last year with 285+ passing yards, Brissett has TWO.

 

Luck had 5 games with 350+ passing yards, Brissett has NONE.

 

Luck had 9 games with 3+ TD passes, Brissett has TWO.

 

Luck had 3 games with 4+ TD passes, Brissett has ZERO.

 

They had really similar weapons, you can argue Brissett had it better because he has Doyle and the oline has been intact all year, while Luck only had the full line half the year. No more excuses. He has been average at best ALL YEAR, he's not the answer unless you're looking for mediocrity. 

 

A GOOD/GREAT QUARTERBACK ISN'T DEFINED BY HIS WEAPONS, HE DEFINES HIS WEAPONS. 

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16 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

The class is so deep at WR that we could easily get a guy with the Redskins pick that in most years would have been a 1st round guy. This is probably true of our other 2nd rounder, the later one. 

 

As far as who, if you want a field stretcher I think you have to shoot for Jalen Reagor or Henry Ruggs. If it's an X receiver, then guys like Tee Higgins, Tyler Johnson, Antonio Gandy Golden. I personally think an X receiver is the way to go (after we take a QB of course). We need a guy that can compliment TY for a while, then eventually take the reigns. We already have a speedy playmaker in Parris Campbell. Most people are touting him a bust already, but he's dealt with injuries, and right before the latest one he was sort of breaking out. The kid is still only 22 and has all the tools to be a great NFL receiver, he just needs someone that can consistently get him the ball without him being open by 5-10 yards lol. 

I love Campbell and wanted the Colts to draft him.  However, I would not say he was breaking out. In his  last game he was tripping over his feet and couldn't hang onto the ball.  It is obvious that he needs playing time.

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6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I love Campbell and wanted the Colts to draft him.  However, I would not say he was breaking out. In his  last game he was tripping over his feet and couldn't hang onto the ball.  It is obvious that he needs playing time.

He had 80 yards from the line of scrimmage. I saw a post from someone at that game. They said the turf had come up where he tripped on the one he just about scored.  The fumbling issues can be fixed. He is going to be dangerous if he stays healthy. Just look st all the days we used him in that Steelers game. We used him as a RB and on jet sweeps and in the slot. He gets that outside game down he is going to be great. I am excited to see him the last 5 games of the season.

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6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I love Campbell and wanted the Colts to draft him.  However, I would not say he was breaking out. In his  last game he was tripping over his feet and couldn't hang onto the ball.  It is obvious that he needs playing time.

 

While I agree, he needs time, in the game he got injured he caught all 5 targets for 53 yards, and 80+ from the LOS. In this anemic offense that's pretty solid. The guy is 22 years old, just give him time. Our QB can't even pass for 200 a game, and imo isn't able to fully utilize a guy like Parris Campbell. I just pray to jesus that they get someone else to play quarterback next season, or at bare minimum draft a guy that will be ready in 2021. 

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1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I love Campbell and wanted the Colts to draft him.  However, I would not say he was breaking out. In his  last game he was tripping over his feet and couldn't hang onto the ball.  It is obvious that he needs playing time.

That's the problem with drafting WRs.  They all need time to develop. J B could use an immediate playmaker now.  Sure draft one but they take too long to contribute.  Ballard certainly isn't hitting it out of the park when he does draft them.  Campbell is a good example.  If we had another proven WR and a good kicker we would probably be one of the favorites to make the SB. I'm hoping Ballard finds us a good proven WR in the offseason.  That along with a new kicker and a decent draft and we should be ready to make a strong run next year.  

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9 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

That's the problem with drafting WRs.  They all need time to develop. J B could use an immediate playmaker now.  Sure draft one but they take too long to contribute.  Ballard certainly isn't hitting it out of the park when he does draft them.  Campbell is a good example.  If we had another proven WR and a good kicker we would probably be one of the favorites to make the SB. I'm hoping Ballard finds us a good proven WR in the offseason.  That along with a new kicker and a decent draft and we should be ready to make a strong run next year.  

 

Lol, are you watching the same dude I am? The Super Bowl? Only way Jacoby Brissett is seeing the Super Bowl is if he buys a ticket. 

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36 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

I wonder if you know what you're saying sometimes, and I'm not trying to be mean, I legit wonder. How did they struggle til Inman came in? Inman had 28 catches in 9 games (2 of which he did absolutely nothing) for a grand total of 304 yards and 3 scores. That's nothing. 

 

Luck had 10 games last year with 285+ passing yards, Brissett has TWO.

 

Luck had 5 games with 350+ passing yards, Brissett has NONE.

 

Luck had 9 games with 3+ TD passes, Brissett has TWO.

 

Luck had 3 games with 4+ TD passes, Brissett has ZERO.

 

They had really similar weapons, you can argue Brissett had it better because he has Doyle and the oline has been intact all year, while Luck only had the full line half the year. No more excuses. He has been average at best ALL YEAR, he's not the answer unless you're looking for mediocrity. 

 

A GOOD/GREAT QUARTERBACK ISN'T DEFINED BY HIS WEAPONS, HE DEFINES HIS WEAPONS. 

As did #18.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

He had 80 yards from the line of scrimmage. I saw a post from someone at that game. They said the turf had come up where he tripped on the one he just about scored.  The fumbling issues can be fixed. He is going to be dangerous if he stays healthy. Just look st all the days we used him in that Steelers game. We used him as a RB and on jet sweeps and in the slot. He gets that outside game down he is going to be great. I am excited to see him the last 5 games of the season.

I'm am not saying he can't b great.  He was fav wr coming out of the draft.  He just needs playing time and then they we will b able to see if he is a keeper. The early results have been mixed.  Shows explosion, often injured and trouble hanging onto the ball.  He has a long way to go and I am not anticipating to much even when he comes back.  I think he has missed to much playing time but we shall c.

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4 hours ago, CoachLite said:

If all you're going to do is run the  damn ball, why invest more money on wide receivers? Now, if you want a more balanced approach predominantly using the run to set up the pass, that would be different. But, that's not what is happening at this point in time.

 

 Let's be blunt!  :thmup:

 WR, at this moment, looks like a waste.
 Receivers that caught a lot of balls last season are doing nothing.
 Frank didn't all of a sudden forget how to attack defenses.
  Houston, we have a problem here.

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1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Let's be blunt!  :thmup:

 WR, at this moment, looks like a waste.
 Receivers that caught a lot of balls last season are doing nothing.
 Frank didn't all of a sudden forget how to attack defenses.
  Houston, we have a problem here.

It’s not a waste. You upgrade and if Jacoby doesn’t work out you have at least good weapons for a new QB.

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17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I'm am not saying he can't b great.  He was fav wr coming out of the draft.  He just needs playing time and then they we will b able to see if he is a keeper. The early results have been mixed.  Shows explosion, often injured and trouble hanging onto the ball.  He has a long way to go and I am not anticipating to much even when he comes back.  I think he has missed to much playing time but we shall c.

All I need to see from Parris these last five games is flashes like the Steelers game. I don’t need him to be dominate.  I expect next season as as long as injuries don’t become a thing for him to really break out. I think he gives Frank a lot of options in the offense. 

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2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

That's the problem with drafting WRs.  They all need time to develop. J B could use an immediate playmaker now.  Sure draft one but they take too long to contribute.  Ballard certainly isn't hitting it out of the park when he does draft them.  Campbell is a good example.  If we had another proven WR and a good kicker we would probably be one of the favorites to make the SB. I'm hoping Ballard finds us a good proven WR in the offseason.  That along with a new kicker and a decent draft and we should be ready to make a strong run next year.  

The WR from this last draft are having pretty solid years. Samual in SF is having a good year as is Mclaurin. Brown has been injured but he has had some big plays. I don’t think we need a 1200 yard guy. Just a guy that contribute. I do think a established FA agent would be best. We could get both.  I wonder if we would be any better with Mclaurin instead of Campbell because he was nfl ready. But I guess that is hindsight and who knows what Campbell might of done if he didn’t have bad luck this year.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

All I need to see from Parris these last five games is flashes like the Steelers game. I don’t need him to be dominate.  I expect next season as as long as injuries don’t become a thing for him to really break out. I think he gives Frank a lot of options in the offense. 

I think we also need to see some real production from Funchess.  He was being handed the No2 role and he needs to show his worth.  I think Paris is a very similar player to TY and he was drafted to be his eventual replacement.  He really needs to come into his own next year because the days of TY playing a full 16 game season without missing time is over.  Hopefully Funchess can also show enough to warrant a resigning.  I would still trade for an experienced WR and draft one. 

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4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think we also need to see some real production from Funchess.  He was being handed the No2 role and he needs to show his worth.  I think Paris is a very similar player to TY and he was drafted to be his eventual replacement.  He really needs to come into his own next year because the days of TY playing a full 16 game season without missing time is over.  Hopefully Funchess can also show enough to warrant a resigning.  I would still trade for an experienced WR and draft one. 

Funchess will have a lot to prove if he comes back the next few games. We still need to upgrade the WR even if we bring him back. We could still bring DF back and get a WR in the draft or FA.  Noticing Hines is getting more opportunities at returning which could finally be the end of Rogers.

 

Parris has the speed of TY and the size of Reggie which should end up being very dangerous. 

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For those debating this round vs that round, here's a great visual about positional approximate value by round. It's roughly a 35 year sample. 

 

WR and RB are the two clearest examples of increased AV in the first round. While there is clear increased AV, both positions are higher risk positions. While you can absolutely find jewels in the later rounds, AV and expectation of performance in the first 5 years is higher for 1st rounders than others on average.

 

There are also flaws to the to some of the positional grading, but less flaw on the skill positions.

 

Worth a read if you have time. If rushed, the graphic is a good one if you can understand it without the article. 

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-some-positions-riskier-to-pick-than-others-in-the-nfl-draft/

 

paine-datalab-nfldraft1.png?w=575

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11 hours ago, richard pallo said:

That's the problem with drafting WRs.  They all need time to develop. J B could use an immediate playmaker now.  Sure draft one but they take too long to contribute.  Ballard certainly isn't hitting it out of the park when he does draft them.  Campbell is a good example.  If we had another proven WR and a good kicker we would probably be one of the favorites to make the SB. I'm hoping Ballard finds us a good proven WR in the offseason.  That along with a new kicker and a decent draft and we should be ready to make a strong run next year.  

seems like hoodie has no trouble finding proven receivers

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12 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

seems like hoodie has no trouble finding proven receivers

I guess you haven't been paying attention to the 'hoodies' problems with receivers this season? 

Tons of trouble with the receiving department this year. 

 

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On 11/22/2019 at 4:12 PM, EastStreet said:

here's the mock I just did....

 

1: R1P22 DL DERRICK BROWN AUBURN

2: R2P2 OT JEDRICK WILLS ALABAMA

3: R2P22 QB JORDAN LOVE UTAH STATE

4: R3P22 WR BRANDON AIYUK ARIZONA STATE

5: R4P22 EDGE JABARI ZUNIGA FLORIDA

6: R5P21 G TREY SMITH TENNESSEE

7: R6P22 WR MARQUEZ CALLAWAY TENNESSEE

8: R6P25 RB A.J. DILLON BOSTON COLLEGE

9: R7P22 LB LEO LEWIS MISSISSIPPI STATE

 

 

Brown will be gone before pick 22 I guarantee it. Javon Kinlaw is a fall back opinion if Brown is gone. The rest of your draft I like especially Aiyuk. I don't follow much PAC 12 football but his tape looks solid. 

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1 minute ago, DownHillRunner said:

 

 

Brown will be gone before pick 22 I guarantee it. Javon Kinlaw is a fall back opinion if Brown is gone. The rest of your draft I like especially Aiyuk. I don't follow much PAC 12 football but his tape looks solid. 

Kinlaw was actually gone before Brown in the simulator. It's early and guys will fluctuate all over the place on the different big boards.

It's a pretty good year for talent all around. 

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Right now we are picking 18th and i can see us lose more games and us going higher in the draft the one big problem is what will Ballard do would he take what there that could be a need or traded down for more picks on guys who might not be as good.

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On 11/22/2019 at 7:12 PM, EastStreet said:

here's the mock I just did....

 

3: R2P22 QB JORDAN LOVE UTAH STATE

You wanna pick Jordan Love really the QBR rating is 49.9 and TD is 14 INT is 15......

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:08 PM, richard pallo said:

That's the problem with drafting WRs.  They all need time to develop. J B could use an immediate playmaker now.  Sure draft one but they take too long to contribute.  Ballard certainly isn't hitting it out of the park when he does draft them.  Campbell is a good example.  If we had another proven WR and a good kicker we would probably be one of the favorites to make the SB. I'm hoping Ballard finds us a good proven WR in the offseason.  That along with a new kicker and a decent draft and we should be ready to make a strong run next year.  

spot on, go with proven talent, the draft is a crap shoot

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3 minutes ago, Freenyfan102 said:

You wanna pick Jordan Love really the QBR rating is 49.9 and TD is 14 INT is 15......

The same guy Ballard traveled to see in person yesterday...

 

Compare his 2018 stats to this year....

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/stats/_/id/4036378/jordan-love

He lost his coaches, multiple WRs, RB, OL, and more from last year. His D is also much worse. It's like he's playing on a new team in a new scheme, with a lot less talent this year... He's been asked to do a bunch more.

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I think taking a WR with the Colts 1st round pick would be a mistake.   DL is much more crucial.  Hilton, Campbell, Pascal, Fountain and Rogers could be OK with a FA signing too.  Reichs offense with Brissett isn't going to give the bang for the buck that a top WR would warrant.   

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With how loaded this draft is at WR, and Ballard mentioning that this class was stacked during 2018 draft season, I'd say it's a foregone conclusion that they'll take a guy Day 1/2. Most analysts are calling this a historic class at the WR position, it's really more a question of what's your flavor?

 

There's elite field stretchers (Ruggs, Reagor, Aiyuk), there's dynamic weapon guys (Laviska Shenault), there's polished X receivers (Jeudy, Lamb, Higgins). 

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I think next year we roll with TY, Campbell, Pascal, Rogers for returns, and maybe we resign Funchess. I also see us drafting another WR or signing one in FA. We currently have only one consistently good WR, Ballard knows he’ll need more than that.

Speaking of FA, it’s very possible AJ Green is on the market in the off-season. If I were Ballard, I’d be calling him day and night for a meeting if that was the case.

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:19 PM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Lol, are you watching the same dude I am? The Super Bowl? Only way Jacoby Brissett is seeing the Super Bowl is if he buys a ticket. 

More Super Bowls than I’ll ever see lol, I don’t how the heck you get into that event with those prices lol

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TY will be starting is 8th season next year and he has been hurt two years in a row.  This year much worse than last year but I can see him missing more time as he gets older.  WR is a must on the draft board and free agent list for next year.

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7 minutes ago, runthepost said:

I say let’s trade for Chris Godwin :default_20smile:

 

Why not just draft a Godwin. Ballard should go 1) Lamb 2-1) Reagor 2-2) Kmet 3) Najee Harris 

 

That offense would allow even the most pedestrian of QBs (Jacoby Brissett) to look like a Pro Bowler. 

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Maybe it would be easier to hire whoever scouts WRs in Pittsburgh.  They always find good WRs.  In all rounds it seems.

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On 11/22/2019 at 5:39 PM, coltfaninnewyork said:

I think Campbell will be good ,pascal a good 3 maybe .Ty and one stud from draft we should be ok 

TY we should just shut down for the year he came back too soon now he projected to miss multiple more games.

52 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Why not just draft a Godwin. Ballard should go 1) Lamb 2-1) Reagor 2-2) Kmet 3) Najee Harris 

 

That offense would allow even the most pedestrian of QBs (Jacoby Brissett) to look like a Pro Bowler. 

Brissett is terrible he would probably still look like a DUD.

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    • After watching Kuechly's retirement speech, I started to think about Leonard and remembered this article:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2019/10/14/darius-leonard-feared-for-his-nfl-career-after-concussion-symptoms-wouldnt-go-away/3976170002/     It's scary, and I think with more and more info being put out about concussions, we'll see more and more players walking away earlier in their careers (injuries in general - Pat McAfee just had a show on this the other day, said he left his career early in part because he hated Grigson, in part because he didn't think it was worth it to keep playing after having 3 surgeries and 4 years, and in part because he had made enough money and wanted to do explore other things in life aside from kicking a football and studying ST tape every day -- he mentioned Gronk who retired early due to not wanting to inflict any more damage on his body... he could've mentioned others like Luck, etc... or could've pulled up Marshawn Lynch's recent interview where he implored younger players to make sure they're taking care of their bodies, their brains and their bank accounts).   Anyway, just from the quotes in that article, you can tell Maniac is a family man and he even mentioned after the 2nd week of being in concussion protocol he started thinking about his wife and kids and reality of maybe quitting NFL.  Let's hope he stays healthy.      I have a hard time putting Kenny Moore up that far.  Ballard did say he thinks K-Moore is the best nickel back in the NFL.  That said, Kenny Moore is a very good nickel back, but to me, it's still nickel back (which, IMO is the 3rd string CB).  He definitely is a good player and it's noticeable when he's not on the field... but I just have a hard time calling him a top 3 player on the entire roster.   My rankings probably go something like this:    1) Big Q (best in NFL at his position, 2 time 1st team all-pro in 2 years), 2) Darius Leonard (top 2-3 at NFL at his position, 2 time all-pro with 1 first team in first 2 years), 3) TY (top 10 at NFL at his position, pro-bowl caliber when healthy, team leader, play maker, but has never been 1st team all pro worthy),  4) Kelly (pro-bowl caliber guy, top 5 in NFL at his position, I can see a potential all-pro in future),  5) Costanzo (pro-bowl caliber guy, under the radar a bit, I know Reich says he's the best LT in the game, but I think he's in the top 5-10 range),  6) Justin Houston (former 1st team all-pro, 4x pro-bowler, put up double digit sacks in a year where he was basically our only pass rush threat on the DL with Turay going on IR early), 7) Marlon Mack (put up 908 yards on the ground in 12 games last year, 1,091 in 14 this year, protects the ball, explosive back, if healthy for a full 16 we should have a 1,300-1,500 yard back next year), 8) Kenny Moore III (very good in the nickel, gets exposed some outside, but a play maker, an energetic guy and a guy who is sorely missed when he's not in the lineup), 9) Anthony Walker (solid week in and week out, racked up >120 tackles, makes few mistakes, IMO his biggest knock is that he is not an elite athlete like Leonard and has to really rely on football instincts -- I think if you paired Leonard's athleticism and play making ability with Walker's instincts you'd have a total freak show of a LBer) 10) Nyheim Hines (several first-team all pro votes as a return man, a dynamic receiving threat out of the backfield or in the slot, solid change-of-pace back... I expect they'll find more ways to utilize him in the offense in 2020).   Honorable mentions: Braden Smith (made an almost seamless transition from G in college to RT in the NFL (though I still think he's better suited at guard),  I think he's right on the cusp of being a pro-bowler and is continuing improvement), Malik Hooker (this past year seemed to be a down year for him and I'm not sure if it was decline in his ability or due to lack of pass rush and injuries around him on secondary, but he has ball hawking skills and hopefully he gets back to the trajectory he seemed to be on before getting hurt as a rookie... still, does seem like teams avoid throwing at him and I thought he improved as a tackler this past year), Jack Doyle (former pro-bowl TE, not a flashy guy, but a guy who is reliable every single week -- solid blocker, average receiver - probably above average short yard receiving TE and below average deep threat TE, great teammate)   Hopefuls for the future: Bobby Okerere (showed a lot of potential as a rookie, improved as the year went on, think we've got a long term starter in this guy), Parris Campbell (his athleticism is off the charts, he seemed to improve every game he played but suffered four injuries -- if he's healthy, I think this guy has serious game-changing capabilities), Rock Ya-Sin (started off a little rocky, but improved as the year went on... we knew he was going to be a bit of a project and he got thrown into the fire right away, I believe he'll improve greatly in year 2), Kemoko Turay (he was really improving in year 2, and looked like our best pass rusher at times last year in the 3+ games he played in... hopefully he bounces back from that injury and continues improving), Khari Willis (I think he's got a fairly low ceiling, but he showed last year that he's a reliable guy, a tough guy, a good tackler, and I think he showed Geathers that Geathers' days in Indy are numbered), Ben Banogu (we knew he was a project pick, and he looked lost at times, but he did show me some glimpses of being a very good athlete, I think he's got potential to be very good for us with some more time learning the NFL game).   Other than that, I don't see a whole lot of players on this team who excite me to potentially be top 10 players.       I think he has done a good job of keeping his body healthy.  He's a sure tackler and it's not his weight or his body breaking down that scares me... funny that you mention Henry though, because in the article about his concussion above, it's pretty clear he thinks he got the concussion from trying to stuff Henry.     Yea, I we went 1-5 last year in the 6 games TY missed.  A few things to be said for that (IMO):  1) TY is a very good player and a leader of this team, (2) with Funchess and Campbell being out most of the year, it clearly showed we have to address WR depth as our WRs were kind of a joke when TY wasn't on the field and even when he was teams were doubling him and we had very little true threats aside from him, (3) Jacoby or whoever our QB is, not only needs more threats, but they've gotta learn how to thrive as a QB without TY or a top-tier WR at their disposal.
    • Good thing theres only one player in the NFL like Derrick Henry. Sadly, we face him 2x a year.. 
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