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Jdubu

Good article

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I’d agree with much of this article. I would carve out the caveat that the team has been without a legit #2,3 receiver, Ebron has been back to his norm with drops and TY has missed 3 games plus he wasn’t right in this game and you were missing Mack, although Williams filled in pretty nicely.

 

This team is missing more than play from the QB, and he looks very one dimensional. While being a solid caretaker of the football, he has zero vision past his first and limited times, maybe a second one. I am completely surprised he has looked as pedestrian as he has so far as a starter this year. He couldn’t throw a guy open if his mother’s life was on the line, he is that bad at anticipation. Kelly may be no better but we’ve seen his arm, we’ve seen his legs, and if he has the “mental” side right, he has many pluses in his game.

 

I think we can pretty much rule out JB as the future in what we’ve all seen so far this year. We know that his back up journeyman guy is bad but we’ve not seen Kelly fire live bullets yet. I honestly think this is the stretch to see if Kelly has enough to allow the Colts to avoid needing to trade up draft capital and focus on either a RT, WR, or pass rusher from any spot along the line because yuk, we have both little rush nor do we have the DC who shows creativity with what he has. Those 3 man rush attempts were borderline criminal while the opposing QB sat at his table, cut up his steak and then threw the ball to about anyone he wanted.

 

The team is not in complete synch and it smells just a tad better than a Pagano led team.https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2863797-jacoby-brissett-holding-back-colts-is-present-future-problem-for-indianapolis

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Were not out of the playoffs yet. JB is 6 and 3. We lost on the road, to a good team, on a short week. Maybe if we lose next game.

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1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

I’d agree with much of this article. I would carve out the caveat that the team has been without a legit #2,3 receiver, Ebron has been back to his norm with drops and TY has missed 3 games plus he wasn’t right in this game and you were missing Mack, although Williams filled in pretty nicely.

 

This team is missing more than play from the QB, and he looks very one dimensional. While being a solid caretaker of the football, he has zero vision past his first and limited times, maybe a second one. I am completely surprised he has looked as pedestrian as he has so far as a starter this year. He couldn’t throw a guy open if his mother’s life was on the line, he is that bad at anticipation. Kelly may be no better but we’ve seen his arm, we’ve seen his legs, and if he has the “mental” side right, he has many pluses in his game.

 

I think we can pretty much rule out JB as the future in what we’ve all seen so far this year. We know that his back up journeyman guy is bad but we’ve not seen Kelly fire live bullets yet. I honestly think this is the stretch to see if Kelly has enough to allow the Colts to avoid needing to trade up draft capital and focus on either a RT, WR, or pass rusher from any spot along the line because yuk, we have both little rush nor do we have the DC who shows creativity with what he has. Those 3 man rush attempts were borderline criminal while the opposing QB sat at his table, cut up his steak and then threw the ball to about anyone he wanted.

 

The team is not in complete synch and it smells just a tad better than a Pagano led team.https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2863797-jacoby-brissett-holding-back-colts-is-present-future-problem-for-indianapolis

I agree with the article. Not all the blame is on Jacoby but he is not the future. Jacoby Brisett is an Alex Smith. Good enough to win games and a good game manager. He sure can get you to the playoffs but won't win any games for the Colts. Now my question is will Ballard realize this year in this draft and get a developmental Qb to sit under Jacoby for another year. My hope is he drafts Jordan Love. Easily attenable for them to get in the draft. He has all the tools in a Franchise Qb but needs to sit a year to develop. I hope this is the route he takes.

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2 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Were not out of the playoffs yet. JB is 6 and 3. We lost on the road, to a good team, on a short week. Maybe if we lose next game.

I know right every single game jacoby has played we have had a chance to win , Vinny cost us 2-3 games with his stuff and hoyer cost us 2 . The Nfl is full of good teams having a chance to win every week is all you can ask for we not gonna go out there an score 50 points we a way ahead in our rebuild 

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3 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

I know right every single game jacoby has played we have had a chance to win , Vinny cost us 2-3 games with his stuff and hoyer cost us 2 . The Nfl is full of good teams having a chance to win every week is all you can ask for we not gonna go out there an score 50 points we a way ahead in our rebuild 

Not every team gets a Luck, Watson, Mahomes. Sometimes you get Alex Smith, go win.

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11 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Were not out of the playoffs yet. JB is 6 and 3. We lost on the road, to a good team, on a short week. Maybe if we lose next game.

He may be 6-3 but he still is not the future.

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Every time the Colts lose a game the response is get rid of half the team and the other half stinks. :wall:

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6 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Not every team gets a Luck, Watson, Mahomes. Sometimes you get Alex Smith, go win.

These guys make it seem like it’s easy to fine and MVP qb, like how long did teams have to lose and how many bust first round pick QBs before they land a good QB then when they get them what have they done other put stats up ?

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3 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Not every team gets a Luck, Watson, Mahomes. Sometimes you get Alex Smith, go win.

I agree you, go win. But Frank Reich and Ballard will not be satisfied and will not be risked to lose there jobs in the long run. Chiefs, Ravens and Houston all made bold moves to draft Qb's and so far it's worked. Ballard obviously believes in depth as well and probably realized Hoyer aint a good back up. So i almost gurantee this coming year he's focused on some Qbs. Also another telling statement is Ballard and Frank have mentioned Jacoby is an Exceptional Leader. Agree, but they never mention on how he has these skills or things like that. They knowhis play is not Franchise Qb worthy

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3 minutes ago, jbaron04 said:

These guys make it seem like it’s easy to fine and MVP qb, like how long did teams have to lose and how many bust first round pick QBs before they land a good QB then when they get them what have they done other put stats up ?

Actually Houston, Chiefs, and Ravens all moved up to draft there Qbs. It's all about find the right Qb for your system. Develop and make sure the team is patient.

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Agree with the article 110% hands down. Time to move on before more set backs occur on the most important position.

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38 minutes ago, King Colt said:

Every time the Colts lose a game the response is get rid of half the team and the other half stinks. :wall:

It's only funny because it's true.

 

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my guess is unless we're officially out of it, no way we will see Kelly unless someone is hurt. Honestly, I'm not sure he's the answer either 

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I have no issue with the Colts drafting a young QB with the right talents next year. But I seriously doubt we are going to get another Manning/Luck anytime in the near future. Hoyer is not the answer as the backup, so go out in the second round and see who is available. Find someone who maybe can grow into the position. But don't expect to see anyone but No. 7 under center next year.

 

While your at it pick up a couple De'Andre Hopkins' on the way out.

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4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

my guess is unless we're officially out of it, no way we will see Kelly unless someone is hurt. Honestly, I'm not sure he's the answer either 

Whenever you have a team with an average or below average QB, the back up is always the most popular guy. And usually, that only lasts until the back up gets his shot and shows why he’s the backup. I’d expect the same with Kelly.

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Just now, Flash7 said:

Whenever you have a team with an average or below average QB, the back up is always the most popular guy. And usually, that only lasts until the back up gets his shot and shows why he’s the backup. I’d expect the same with Kelly.

yep. 

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1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Every time the Colts lose a game the response is get rid of half the team and the other half stinks. :wall:

 

is the beer and food the only reason you watch football? The montra of this coaching staff is get better every day. Not, everyone try hard, you can't win them all.

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5 minutes ago, csmopar said:

yep. 

Jb has had his chance. He has proven to be an able backup. Next man up until it works.

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1 hour ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

Jacoby Brisett is an Alex Smith.

 

There are some critical differences between Alex Smith and JB. A main one is that Alex Smith was decisive with the football. JB's time to throw is getting worse each week.

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1 hour ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Were not out of the playoffs yet. JB is 6 and 3. We lost on the road, to a good team, on a short week. Maybe if we lose next game.

You’re missing the point. It’s not about the record. It’s about evaluating Jacoby based on his play. His play has indicated that he is not a long term answer at QB. Winning games doesn’t change who he is as a player.

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It's insulting to Alex Smith to compare Jacoby Brissett to him.  Alex Smith is very decisive with that ball.  Jacoby holds the ball until someone is wide open....3 yards down the field.

 

I have been on here saying this all year.  You are fooling yourself if you think Jacoby will ever be more than a mediocre QB.  He is too cautious and holds onto the ball too long.  We saw that in 2017 and we see it this year.  Colts do well when they can run all day.  But if they need to win by passing, forget it.  It Ballard applies the same criteria to QB he does for rest of team, he needs to upgrade the position.  

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2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

These guys make it seem like it’s easy to fine and MVP qb, like how long did teams have to lose and how many bust first round pick QBs before they land a good QB then when they get them what have they done other put stats up ?

I'd argue that alot of it comes down to bad teams that earn first picks are throwing a rookie into the fire without any sort of infrastructure. So even if the rookie is talented they have very little success with them and wont develop them correctly.

 

But thats a fair assessment. Elite QBs don't just fall into your lap. I just don't think that's a good enough arguement to not try.

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2 hours ago, jbaron04 said:

These guys make it seem like it’s easy to fine and MVP qb, like how long did teams have to lose and how many bust first round pick QBs before they land a good QB then when they get them what have they done other put stats up ?

Nobody is saying we need an MVP, and nobody is saying it's easy to find a top 10 QB. Most are just saying JB is not the long term answer, and we should try.

 

The Colts have been able to find great QBs in the draft the last two attempts, so it's not impossible either. I think we are armed with a GM who is good at scouting talent, so our chances of picking the right guy are probably better than other teams.

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3 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

Were not out of the playoffs yet. JB is 6 and 3. We lost on the road, to a good team, on a short week. Maybe if we lose next game.

It’s just the overall play that JB has brung to the field. Chuck and duck style. I’m shocked in his play tbh. I thought he would be better and I thought game plans would also look better. Coaching hasn’t helped JB look any better for certain. 

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2 hours ago, csmopar said:

my guess is unless we're officially out of it, no way we will see Kelly unless someone is hurt. Honestly, I'm not sure he's the answer either 

I’m not sure he is but we really won’t know until he sees live play u see duress and Taylor the offense towards his strengths more as opposed to whatever they’ve done for JB. 

2 hours ago, Flash7 said:

Whenever you have a team with an average or below average QB, the back up is always the most popular guy. And usually, that only lasts until the back up gets his shot and shows why he’s the backup. I’d expect the same with Kelly.

All fair. And he may very well be trash. If we are out of contention, it’s worth a look or if we have to put in a backup, I’d try him rather than the current #2 guy. 

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First, they need to upgrade the pass catchers around him. Second, they need to still give him a second year to see what he can do with the upgrades and his FIRST off season where he will know he is the starter and prepare as such. Third, regardless, draft the QB with upside that you think you need like a Jordan Love and let him learn for a year. Hoyer or Chad Kelly, we can make a decision to keep one and let the other go.

 

Continue upgrading all defensive positions to provide Brissett more defensive support and see where it takes us next year. I firmly believe we have to give Brissett the 2 years to have a good evaluation, to see if he can improve upon things he is deficient in.

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How many teams would be 6-5 if their franchise QB retired before week 1?

 

Maybe New Orleans, that’s it.

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5 hours ago, Jdubu said:

It’s just the overall play that JB has brung to the field. Chuck and duck style. I’m shocked in his play tbh. I thought he would be better and I thought game plans would also look better. Coaching hasn’t helped JB look any better for certain. 

I would say coaching has made him look as good as he has. 

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9 hours ago, Coltsfan0112 said:

I agree with the article. Not all the blame is on Jacoby but he is not the future. Jacoby Brisett is an Alex Smith. Good enough to win games and a good game manager. He sure can get you to the playoffs but won't win any games for the Colts. Now my question is will Ballard realize this year in this draft and get a developmental Qb to sit under Jacoby for another year. My hope is he drafts Jordan Love. Easily attenable for them to get in the draft. He has all the tools in a Franchise Qb but needs to sit a year to develop. I hope this is the route he takes.

We're not sure to advance the QB play by drafting a guy we hope will develop.  

 

After the Dorset, Djoun, TJGreen, Wilson, Basham, Lewis, and even the Hooker investment in "high ceiling" players in rounds 1 through 3, I'm looking for more high floor players. 

 

A high floor at the QB position is the guy who moves the chains with accurate passes and doesn't turn the ball over.  In terms of stats, a high completion rate, 3rd down conversion rate,  low number of 3 and outs, and the number of first downs the team gets relative to interceptions it gives up as being important stats.  And comparing yards and TDs stats with how many SBs we won in the past 20 years while leading the NFL in those stats. 

 

If potential doesn't do what you invest in it to do it is a big set back. 

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5 hours ago, chad72 said:

First, they need to upgrade the pass catchers around him. Second, they need to still give him a second year to see what he can do with the upgrades and his FIRST off season where he will know he is the starter and prepare as such. Third, regardless, draft the QB with upside that you think you need like a Jordan Love and let him learn for a year. Hoyer or Chad Kelly, we can make a decision to keep one and let the other go.

 

Continue upgrading all defensive positions to provide Brissett more defensive support and see where it takes us next year. I firmly believe we have to give Brissett the 2 years to have a good evaluation, to see if he can improve upon things he is deficient in.

 

This is a reasonable, well-thought-out approach. Improve the OL, WR, TE and RB positions by draft/FA, and look to upgrade our defensive weaknesses, especially DT, CB and safety positions. And add a developmental QB and a kicker "to boot"!

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1 hour ago, Btown_Colt said:

I would say coaching has made him look as good as he has. 

I’m not as sure. Granted, he doesn’t process fast enough but still, I’m not sure the route patterns have been JB friendly. Idk, the offense is just not good and I think there is enough blame to go around here. OC, QB and the wr’s 

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I  have #1 QB ranked as about the 12th biggest need on the current roster. 

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The Texans game: 1 of 7 on passes longer than 10 yards

14 yards longest pass

TY Hilton- 3 catches for 18 yards and 6 targets

Blame Reich or Brissett?

If Houston ever gets an OL that can protect Watson those few long balls we saw Thursday night will turn from few to many and if the Colts don't counter then the Colts don't win.

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1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

I’m not as sure. Granted, he doesn’t process fast enough but still, I’m not sure the route patterns have been JB friendly. Idk, the offense is just not good and I think there is enough blame to go around here. OC, QB and the wr’s 

I guess that was my point, or at least how I’m leaning. If they can scheme receivers open, JB looks decent/good (1st Texans game) if not, you get last nights performance.

 

I’m sure all 3 share in the blame, just mainly the QB, IMO.

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38 minutes ago, Douzer said:

I  have #1 QB ranked as about the 12th biggest need on the current roster. 

 

I'm willing to entertain your reasoning for why the #1 most important position in the NFL, by far, is the 12th most important need on a Colts team that just had their franchise QB retire before the season.

 

 

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10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

The Colts have been able to find great QBs in the draft the last two attempts, so it's not impossible either.

Is this referencing Manning and Luck? Because, as good as Burrow/Tua/Herbert may be, none is Manning/Luck caliber as a prospect. Like... not even close. We're also not bottoming out, as much as the board may make it seem like we are.  We got struck by lightning twice, and the last time was just a half strike.  Unless we totally bottom out next year, AND Lawrence ends up being the guy people thought he was coming out of HS, then the likelihood of us getting struck a 3rd time is pretty much nil.

 

We might need a new long term QB (or not) but we most likely aren't seeing a top 5 QB come through our doors for a long while.

 

Brissett does what Reich wants. Facilitates the offense while taking care of the football.  Brissett does what Ballard wants.  Be a superb leader and display the intangibles and character that the Colts organization hold so dear.  It might not be what we fans want, or flashy, but they've been pretty clear about what they're looking for.

 

Now if Andrew decides 1 year off and a single offseason with his new daughter (congrats!) is enough to start itching again, then all bets are off. But given the situation we limped into this season with, we're still further ahead than almost anyone thought we'd be. That's with Jacoby. He hasn't done enough to lose his spot. He's been pedestrian, statwise, but for this team's makeup he's been a pretty damn good fit. Imagine if our GOAT kicker didn't cost us 2 (almost 3) games. Any given Sunday.

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10 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

Is this referencing Manning and Luck? Because, as good as Burrow/Tua/Herbert may be, none is Manning/Luck caliber as a prospect. Like... not even close. We're also not bottoming out, as much as the board may make it seem like we are.  We got struck by lightning twice, and the last time was just a half strike.  Unless we totally bottom out next year, AND Lawrence ends up being the guy people thought he was coming out of HS, then the likelihood of us getting struck a 3rd time is pretty much nil.

That's what they said about the two leading candidates for MVP this year (Jackson and Wilson). IMO Luck and Manning were very polished and had long tenures on good teams which went to their pedigree. Burrow, Tua, Herbert, and even Love have very high ceilings, but not the pedigree. I'd say at least one of the 4 will end up in the top 10 for years to come.

10 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

We might need a new long term QB (or not) but we most likely aren't seeing a top 5 QB come through our doors for a long while.

 

Brissett does what Reich wants. Facilitates the offense while taking care of the football.  Brissett does what Ballard wants.  Be a superb leader and display the intangibles and character that the Colts organization hold so dear.  It might not be what we fans want, or flashy, but they've been pretty clear about what they're looking for.

While I agree he operates within the game plan, his execution and stats within the game plan have been mediocre. I do blame Reich for the "total" categories in stats, but you can't blame Reich for the AVGs, and things like time to throw, etc..

10 hours ago, CheezyColt said:

 

Now if Andrew decides 1 year off and a single offseason with his new daughter (congrats!) is enough to start itching again, then all bets are off. But given the situation we limped into this season with, we're still further ahead than almost anyone thought we'd be. That's with Jacoby. He hasn't done enough to lose his spot. He's been pedestrian, statwise, but for this team's makeup he's been a pretty damn good fit. Imagine if our GOAT kicker didn't cost us 2 (almost 3) games. Any given Sunday.

Being further ahead than expected in some areas does not negate other factors. If coaches only changed things when "horrible", we wouldn't have so many teams trading up to take chances on non-pedigree type QBs.

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12 hours ago, zibby43 said:

 

I'm willing to entertain your reasoning for why the #1 most important position in the NFL, by far, is the 12th most important need on a Colts team that just had their franchise QB retire before the season.

 

 

OK, these are positions I feel the greatest sense of urgency to upgrade in the upcoming draft and FA period (today 2019 11-23): The exact order is a rough approximation and not wholly refined in my thoughts yet.

#1 NT (Rush)

#2 RT

#3 DE (Rush)

#4 WR-2

#5 UT (Rush)

#6 TE-1

#7 WR-3

#8 K

#9 QB-2

#10 LT-2

#11 SS-2

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2 hours ago, Douzer said:

OK, these are positions I feel the greatest sense of urgency to upgrade in the upcoming draft and FA period (today 2019 11-23): The exact order is a rough approximation and not wholly refined in my thoughts yet.

#1 NT (Rush)

#2 RT

#3 DE (Rush)

#4 WR-2

#5 UT (Rush)

#6 TE-1

#7 WR-3

#8 K

#9 QB-2

#10 LT-2

#11 SS-2

 

I like and agree with some of the top 4 (not necessarily in that order), but slotting a *kicker* above a QB1 when the Colts currently have a bottom 10 starter (Jacoby is #27) right now in terms of yards per attempt is just mind-boggling.

 

Like, with all due respect my man, that's some out-there, alternative thinking lol. 

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On 11/22/2019 at 2:48 PM, chad72 said:

First, they need to upgrade the pass catchers around him. Second, they need to still give him a second year to see what he can do with the upgrades and his FIRST off season where he will know he is the starter and prepare as such. Third, regardless, draft the QB with upside that you think you need like a Jordan Love and let him learn for a year. Hoyer or Chad Kelly, we can make a decision to keep one and let the other go.

 

Continue upgrading all defensive positions to provide Brissett more defensive support and see where it takes us next year. I firmly believe we have to give Brissett the 2 years to have a good evaluation, to see if he can improve upon things he is deficient in.

Another year would be a waste of another year. Do you think qb's are developed or groomed for success? They either have it or they don't. If the Colts go though 8 QB's over the next 3 years, then that is what you do to get better.

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