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Mr.Debonair

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I would love to know what the heck was goin on back there tonight? 
 

1. How the hell does their best WR get wide open in the end zone?

 

2. Was there to be some safety help over top on the big plays down the field? 
 

I know we missed Willis and Rock but we got back the top guy and had Hooker back there. He looked confused tonight tho. Kenny Moore seemed to have a good game.

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Hooker seemed to have no interest in Hopkins last night... He just kinda let him go each time. 

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Hooker was invisible last night. The deep ball is his forte but he was nowhere to be found. He let Hopkins run right past him on his open on the end zone td.

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1 minute ago, KB said:

Hooker was invisible last night. The deep ball is his forte but he was nowhere to be found. He let Hopkins run right past him on his open on the end zone td.

 

I am a huge Hooker fan, but I have to agree with this assessment. He was nowhere to be found last night, and I'm pretty certain that he was picked on/confused quite often. On big game nights like last night, he needs to show up!

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11 minutes ago, KB said:

Hooker was invisible last night. The deep ball is his forte but he was nowhere to be found. He let Hopkins run right past him on his open on the end zone td.

 

That can NEVER happen. I rather we blow a coverage underneath to another WR than to let Hopkins run down the field WIDE OPEN. Again, I don't know who that was on as it seemed Desir passed him on. Watson saw one on one coverage against Fuller and he didn't care who it was, he was taking a shot

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8 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

 

That can NEVER happen. I rather we blow a coverage underneath to another WR than to let Hopkins run down the field WIDE OPEN. Again, I don't know who that was on as it seemed Desir passed him on. Watson saw one on one coverage against Fuller and he didn't care who it was, he was taking a shot

I’m not sure about this defensive coaching staff getting guys into the best positions to succeed. There is something missing with this team. I’ve harped many of times, this coaching staff doesn’t appear to instill discipline or accountability equally across the team. Whatever Wilson has done to upset the coaching staff doesn’t seem to apply to other cb’s who don’t perform well. 3 lineman in to rush when we can’t get to anyone with 4 and they still carve you up for chunk plays? What scheme is Eberflus employing here? This team is all over the map in terms of performance from game to game. 
 

min some fairness here, Watson is really really good and his receivers are pretty top notch as well. It’s a miracle we held them to 20 tbh. 

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 Hooker is playing deep and yet he Never shows up to defend deep passes? Watson never throws into a double team?
Granted that Watson threw several fabulous deep balls and His receivers brought them down.

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Blame Eberflus, not Hooker.  On those long completions, the safeties were positioned in mid-level zone coverage and had no responsibility for covering deep.  Re-watch the game and see how they were deployed before making silly comments like Hooker was confused (Aikman) and he let receivers blow by him (commenters here). 

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42 minutes ago, KB said:

Hooker was invisible last night. The deep ball is his forte but he was nowhere to be found. He let Hopkins run right past him on his open on the end zone td.

I'm not a proponent that Hooker is an elite all around FS.  His eliteness is simply one dimensional, which isn't enough to warrant a huge capital investment, IMO.

 

But in his defense, it seemed to me the scheme being played did not have him always covering the deep ball.  The first TD looks like it may have been a whiff, it happens, but the other times it looked like there was no intention to give the CB over the top FS help.  Which is a scheme problem.   

 

On the first TD, it looks like Hooker was supposed to turn and run with Hopkins, which is a recognition problem and a man-coverage issue (he's a deep ball hawk, not a skilled man-coverer.)

 

If Hooker was truly out of position on those deep throws, it was really, really, bad play because he was not even in the picture and in no position to contest the long completion.

 

Overall, I think the corners had decent coverage.  I think the safety play and/or scheme let them down.

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1 hour ago, KB said:

Hooker was invisible last night. The deep ball is his forte but he was nowhere to be found. He let Hopkins run right past him on his open on the end zone td.

hooker is not living up to the hype

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Yeah I was noticing Hooker invisible but eventually noticed it seemed more like a schematic issue.  I started to get incredibly upset with Eberflus this wasn’t fixed.  It’s like they were prepped more for the run and defending underneath them which is mind boggling.  

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10 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

I would love to know what the heck was goin on back there tonight? 
 

1. How the hell does their best WR get wide open in the end zone?

 

2. Was there to be some safety help over top on the big plays down the field? 
 

I know we missed Willis and Rock but we got back the top guy and had Hooker back there. He looked confused tonight tho. Kenny Moore seemed to have a good game.

That's how good coaches with capable QBs use deep threat specialists..... 

 

Very hard to defend. That said, we still kept them to under 21 points, and under 100 rushing. 

Those few plays didn't cost us the game.

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Tell and Okerke both dropped interceptions that should have been caught.  With the exception of one blown coverage the defense played great.  Their playmakers made some great catches in tight coverage.  This loss is on the offense.

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21 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Tell and Okerke both dropped interceptions that should have been caught.  With the exception of one blown coverage the defense played great.  Their playmakers made some great catches in tight coverage.  This loss is on the offense.

If you make the other teams QB look like Joe Montana then this will happen.

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3 hours ago, John Waylon said:

Hooker seemed to have no interest in Hopkins last night... He just kinda let him go each time. 

I was wondering how many people were going to see that on both of Hopkins TDs was because Hooker messed up.

 

Good catch err poor phrasing.  Good observation.

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2 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Tell has looked good the 3 games before this last night he was horrendous.

When you have a legit deep threat WR like Fuller, who can blow the doors off the top (not to mention draw coverage every down), plus a quality WR like Hopkins PLUS (most important) a QB that is good going deep, most passing Ds will get burnt. This game was the perfect example of why you need a passing O to keep up. And honestly, holding them to 20 points was fantastic in itself, so can'* on the DBs really at all.

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Watson also made some perfect passes on some of those long plays...sure there was some busted coverage too, but those passes were great. 

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I still wonder if it was Hooker or Desir on the blown coverage.  Is you watch that play, ever other DB was playing man press coverage.  Desir was the only one to let his man go and drop off into zone.  

 

Either way, the pass D was OK.  They just made some great pass/catches. 

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I have no idea why we played so much man against Houston. This is not the team to do that with. 

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35 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

Tell has looked good the 3 games before this last night he was horrendous.

 

Not really. Tell has battled and played hard, but he gives up separation at the top of the route all the time, this isn't new. He got beat in a similar way on Chark's first TD last week.

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In fairness to Tell, those are two of maybe the 5-10 fastest WRs in the league. Chark ran something like a 4.35 at 6’4” and 200 pounds and Fuller was sub 4.3. They create separation in man from plenty of CBs, not just a rookie who’s a half season through the transition from safety.

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I don't understand how the apparent scheme we played was going to defend the deep ball.  It looked to me that either the corner had no safety help or it was Geathers who was the closest safety on the deep ball.  Even in man coverage, I don't think defenses typically only have the CB responsible for the entire length of the field.

 

I thought Hooker was too close to the LOS, maybe defending the run as gameplanning scheme?  No way can he get back there in time to help.  He can't outrun the ball.  

 

I can't think of a game since Eberflus got here where we gave up 4 long pass plays...designed pass plays, not broken plays.....   

 

It cost us the game for sure.  It is possible to hold teams to less than 17 points.

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9 hours ago, needanoline63 said:

Desir is definitely not a number one/elite corner. We have to many glaring weaknesses 

I would cut desir a little slack hasn't played or practiced much ,obvious rust .

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Eberflus has been putting Hooker closer to the LOS lately. It takes him out of what he does best although he has been pretty good at the LOS.

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In Hookers defense, he was used A LOT down in the box. It looked like they were over-coaching by changing up who was manning the deep center and/or halves....Geathers was the one I always saw arriving late (outside of the obvious blown coverage) on the other 5 or 6 deep balls....

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On 11/22/2019 at 12:00 AM, Mr.Debonair said:

I would love to know what the heck was goin on back there tonight? 
 

1. How the hell does their best WR get wide open in the end zone?

 

2. Was there to be some safety help over top on the big plays down the field? 
 

I know we missed Willis and Rock but we got back the top guy and had Hooker back there. He looked confused tonight tho. Kenny Moore seemed to have a good game.

On the two tds to hopkins they had hooker playing up at the line instead of deep

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1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

In Hookers defense, he was used A LOT down in the box. It looked like they were over-coaching by changing up who was manning the deep center and/or halves....Geathers was the one I always saw arriving late (outside of the obvious blown coverage) on the other 5 or 6 deep balls....

The defensive  gameplan was stupid. Should have sent more pressure  and hooker should have played deep all game

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On 11/22/2019 at 12:00 AM, Mr.Debonair said:

I would love to know what the heck was goin on back there tonight? 
 

1. How the hell does their best WR get wide open in the end zone?

 

2. Was there to be some safety help over top on the big plays down the field? 
 

I know we missed Willis and Rock but we got back the top guy and had Hooker back there. He looked confused tonight tho. Kenny Moore seemed to have a good game.

On the Hopkins TD, it was a blown assignment on Hooker and terrible communication in the secondary. Desir passed Hopkins off , with the expectation that Hooker would take over but Hooker instead did not which led to Hopkins being completely wide open in the end zone.

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5 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

On the Hopkins TD, it was a blown assignment on Hooker and terrible communication in the secondary. Desir passed Hopkins off , with the expectation that Hooker would take over but Hooker instead did not which led to Hopkins being completely wide open in the end zone.


did they say what the play call was?

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15 hours ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

I would cut desir a little slack hasn't played or practiced much ,obvious rust .

He still isn’t elite. He’s a number 2 at best

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On 11/22/2019 at 9:14 AM, DougDew said:

I'm not a proponent that Hooker is an elite all around FS.  His eliteness is simply one dimensional, which isn't enough to warrant a huge capital investment, IMO.

 

But in his defense, it seemed to me the scheme being played did not have him always covering the deep ball.  The first TD looks like it may have been a whiff, it happens, but the other times it looked like there was no intention to give the CB over the top FS help.  Which is a scheme problem.   

 

On the first TD, it looks like Hooker was supposed to turn and run with Hopkins, which is a recognition problem and a man-coverage issue (he's a deep ball hawk, not a skilled man-coverer.)

 

If Hooker was truly out of position on those deep throws, it was really, really, bad play because he was not even in the picture and in no position to contest the long completion.

 

Overall, I think the corners had decent coverage.  I think the safety play and/or scheme let them down.

I haven't seen any replays but it looked to me we were in single high cover three.  If that's the case the corner blew the coverage on the first TD, not Hooker. Maybe someone who has watched the replay can opine.  We play a lot of C3 and Hooker didn't seem to have any intention of covering that back third.  Either Desir completely blew it (he was playing cover 2) or Hooker did.  Since Hooker was the only safety deep I assumed we were in cover 3 and Desir played the wrong coverage.  Now that I think about it more since I recall Hopkins release was inside Desir's position and in a cover 2 you would push that to your safety, if he goes outside you'd go with him, just basic cover 2 rules.  That might suggest to me Desir was thinking he had safety help.  Given Hooker didn't react you could assume he thought Desir would cover the back third. sooo...unless we know the call we don't know who blew it.  Now, if I had to guess I'd say it was Desir since there was only one safety playing deep as I recall. If anyone has the replay it should be easy to dissect, just look and see where the second safety was.

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45 minutes ago, Rally5 said:

I haven't seen any replays but it looked to me we were in single high cover three.  If that's the case the corner blew the coverage on the first TD, not Hooker. Maybe someone who has watched the replay can opine.  We play a lot of C3 and Hooker didn't seem to have any intention of covering that back third.  Either Desir completely blew it (he was playing cover 2) or Hooker did.  Since Hooker was the only safety deep I assumed we were in cover 3 and Desir played the wrong coverage.  Now that I think about it more since I recall Hopkins release was inside Desir's position and in a cover 2 you would push that to your safety, if he goes outside you'd go with him, just basic cover 2 rules.  That might suggest to me Desir was thinking he had safety help.  Given Hooker didn't react you could assume he thought Desir would cover the back third. sooo...unless we know the call we don't know who blew it.  Now, if I had to guess I'd say it was Desir since there was only one safety playing deep as I recall. If anyone has the replay it should be easy to dissect, just look and see where the second safety was.

We need to learn to play 'out' of a Cover 3 base, and be able to transition either to man or other configurations as needed. That's pretty complex for young, inexperienced or injured players to pull off - even if they have the talent.

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On 11/23/2019 at 8:30 AM, needanoline63 said:

He still isn’t elite. He’s a number 2 at best

He's still very good ,you are not going to have elite players at every position.

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6 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I haven't seen any replays but it looked to me we were in single high cover three.  If that's the case the corner blew the coverage on the first TD, not Hooker. Maybe someone who has watched the replay can opine.  We play a lot of C3 and Hooker didn't seem to have any intention of covering that back third.  Either Desir completely blew it (he was playing cover 2) or Hooker did.  Since Hooker was the only safety deep I assumed we were in cover 3 and Desir played the wrong coverage.  Now that I think about it more since I recall Hopkins release was inside Desir's position and in a cover 2 you would push that to your safety, if he goes outside you'd go with him, just basic cover 2 rules.  That might suggest to me Desir was thinking he had safety help.  Given Hooker didn't react you could assume he thought Desir would cover the back third. 

I think it was clear that Desir thought he was supposed to hand Hopkins off to Hooker.  It looked like Hooker realized that as Hopkins blew by him at full speed.  As it turned out, Geathers and another DB were the closest DBs to Hopkins as he caught the ball.  

 

I don't know if it was Desir or Hooker who was supposed to follow Hopkins into the deep middle, but it looked like Hooker was playing close to the LOS than what he typically does, like he was on the other 3 passes Houston completed.  I assume its because that's how Eberflus was calling the coverage.

 

I hope it wasn't Hooker lining up closer on his own in order to gather more tackle stats.  I wouldn't think so.

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On 11/23/2019 at 6:27 AM, Nickster said:


did they say what the play call was?

They did not but it looked, like a cover 1 robber.

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4 hours ago, ProblChld32 said:

They did not but it looked, like a cover 1 robber.

Well in cover 1 the CB is definitely supposed to stay with the man and try to force him into Hooker.   The robber makes it one deep safety, so in all likelihood, it was not Hooker who blew the coverage.

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