Down the field WR's NEEDED!!!!

[Fisticuffs111]

52 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

It would really be making Reich look bad more than JB.

 

If he's ever matched with the right QB and coach/scheme, he'll be at minimum a good one trick pony. How he develops in other areas, IDK. All I know, we sure didn't use him correctly.

 

Yeah I’ll admit it, while I don’t think Cain is the next big thing, I’m still a little salty that we got rid of him. Hentges as well, to a much lesser degree though. 

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Calmack said:

That's just it. It was in college. Not the NFL against NFL caliber players. Don't think his game will translate because he did it in college. Even more so, if going deep is all he CAN do, there's no incentive to keep a 1 trick pony like him. One that couldn't get any separation in the most basic short to intermediate routes. 

LOL. I said he was a 3 level player, just not a possession receiver. And he got open but ignored on vertical routes. He also ran a few good back shoulder routes and JB threw bad balls to him. He did the same thing to TY that same game.

 

You're making a lot of claims but really doubt you've done a rewatch or looked at things like all22. And nobody is saying he is perfect. What I'm saying is we asked him to something totally different than what we knew he was good at. I'd imagine it's pretty hard for all of WRs with JB, and especially new ones to develop.

 

And the fact that he had an impact in his first and only game with a new team that has a 3rd string QB is quite telling.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

 

Yeah I’ll admit it, while I don’t think Cain is the next big thing, I’m still a little salty that we got rid of him. Hentges as well, to a much lesser degree though. 

Same here. I can understand Hentges given the roster situation a bit, but hated to see him go. He hasn't done much with the Skins, but I'm sure he's blocking his butt off. 

 

I had medium expectation for Cain, and thought he'd end up a #2, #3, or simply a depth deep threat guy. IMO, he would have done more than fine with Luck. Regardless, he should have been given more time, and given more opportunity to do things he was ready to do. He gone now. Will be interesting to see how he does. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

23 minutes ago, Calmack said:

That's just it. It was in college. Not the NFL against NFL caliber players. Don't think his game will translate because he did it in college. Even more so, if going deep is all he CAN do, there's no incentive to keep a 1 trick pony like him. One that couldn't get any separation in the most basic short to intermediate routes. 

He is young though. A lot of WR don’t come into the league with a big route tree. If he works in that he can be a all around WR.

[rock8591]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Same here. I can understand Hentges given the roster situation a bit, but hated to see him go. He hasn't done much with the Skins, but I'm sure he's blocking his butt off. 

 

I had medium expectation for Cain, and thought he'd end up a #2, #3, or simply a depth deep threat guy. IMO, he would have done more than fine with Luck. Regardless, he should have been given more time, and given more opportunity to do things he was ready to do. He gone now. Will be interesting to see how he does. 

 

Let's not pretend he's any good. Good WRs don't last until round 6.

 

What will the team do without his 52 yards for the past year?

[hoosierhawk]

2 hours ago, Stephen said:

So a Brett farce like qb or the mad bomber 

Yeah, I'd take a f Farve over JB, would you?

[coltfaninnewyork]

Any Hope Campbell can play Sunday ?

[Calmack]

17 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LOL. I said he was a 3 level player, just not a possession receiver. And he got open but ignored on vertical routes. He also ran a few good back shoulder routes and JB threw bad balls to him. He did the same thing to TY that same game.

 

You're making a lot of claims but really doubt you've done a rewatch or looked at things like all22. And nobody is saying he is perfect. What I'm saying is we asked him to something totally different than what we knew he was good at. I'd imagine it's pretty hard for all of WRs with JB, and especially new ones to develop.

 

And the fact that he had an impact in his first and only game with a new team that has a 3rd string QB is quite telling.

What you're saying is just funny. "We asked him to do something different than what he was good at". He was never good at anything on the NFL level. As if the coaches somehow didn't see something a couch evaluator like you did. If that's true he wouldnt have been waived in the first place. And he isn't a 3 level player. He showed nothing remotely close to being a 3 level player. Drops, sloppy routes, and severe lack of separation is what he's remembered for. But you can go ahead and keep watching your all22 and make claims about how we let this good player get away. I also wouldnt make too much of a 1 catch for 35 yards game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, coltfaninnewyork said:

Any Hope Campbell can play Sunday ?

Yes. He was limited in practice last week and said he hoped to be back for the titans.

[Thunderbolt]

Before we get to hung up on a wide receiver, this team needs a qb to throw at them...

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Calmack said:

What you're saying is just funny. "We asked him to do something different than what he was good at". He was never good at anything on the NFL level. As if the coaches somehow didn't see something a couch evaluator like you did. If that's true he wouldnt have been waived in the first place. And he isn't a 3 level player. He showed nothing remotely close to being a 3 level player. Drops, sloppy routes, and severe lack of separation is what he's remembered for. But you can go ahead and keep watching your all22 and make claims about how we let this good player get away. I also wouldnt make too much of a 1 catch for 35 yards game.

Several professionals called him a 3 level player.

And what you're saying is hilarious about a guy who is essentially a rookie. None of them have time in the NFL... great hot take.. And a rookie trying to develop with QB who struggling.... 

 

I'm sure your couch evaluation is better than mine though lol...

 

Anyway, here's a 3 level evaluation from NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000930017/New-WR-for-Luck-Colts-select-Deon-Cain-No-185-in-the-2018-NFL-Draft

[coltfaninnewyork]

6 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yes. He was limited in practice last week and said he hoped to be back for the titans.

Let's hope we can get him the ball in space ,and he has a breakout game .

[Nickster]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:59 PM, DougDew said:

But the context of JB, we are criticizing his pregression reads.  Hardly anything else is being criticized.  I'm assuming the lack of defensive coverage awareness is why people call him not a franchise QB. 

 

Lamar and Mohomes have not displayed such awareness either, IMO.  Not that they don't have it, its just not considered to be the basis for saying they are the best young QBs in the NFL.  To me, a QBs running ability lasts about as long as it did for Kaepernick and Griffin, so we'll see if Lamar becomes elite for other reasons.  And converting sandlot improvisations maintains its longevity for about as long as it did for Johnny Manziel, so we'll see if Mahomes becomes elite for other reasons.

 

So, no, I would not want Jalen Hurts, Tua, or even Kyler Murray as my QB, if I'm counting on the QB to carry the load by reading defenses like I would if I labeled him a franchise QB.  I'm not saying they don't have that ability, its merely not been talked about in their skill set.  The hype has been about other things.

 

I'm not sure how injuries have impacted Mariota's progressions analysis, or if he ever had much of one to begin with.  It seems Darnold and Rosen have as much starting experience as JB, so I don't know why any of them would be on a different learning trajectory.

 

It seem like any college QB we draft, outside of a Manning or Luck, will have as many questions about their ability to read NFL defenses that we are having with JB, so I can't see why its so readily accepted to chuck JB in favor of a mid first or early second round talented college QB.

 

From what I've seen Fromm has that mental connection and maturity, but I'm not sure he has the physical tools.  Burrow seemed impressive in the few times I've seen him, has more of a physical game than Fromm but less awareness, IMO. 

 

Because we know what JB is.

[EastStreet]

23 minutes ago, rock8591 said:

 

Let's not pretend he's any good. Good WRs don't last until round 6.

 

What will the team do without his 52 yards for the past year?

 

52 yards is actually a lot with this current QB... Yes, sarcasm, but also truth... 

And we know why he dropped. Puff puff... 

 

Here's what Ballard had to say

Quote

“Our scouts did a lot of research on him. He’s made some mistakes and I think that’s probably part of it, but we think he is a good kid,” Ballard said. “We think he’ll work and do the things – and look, I mean when a kid that talented drops, sometimes you get a little guy with a chip on his shoulder and we think he has that.”

 

 

Good QBs don't last till round 6 either. This guy says hello.

[Calmack]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Several professionals called him a 3 level player.

And what you're saying is hilarious about a guy who is essentially a rookie. None of them have time in the NFL... great hot take.. And a rookie trying to develop with QB who struggling.... 

 

I'm sure your couch evaluation is better than mine though lol...

 

Anyway, here's a 3 level evaluation from NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap3000000930017/New-WR-for-Luck-Colts-select-Deon-Cain-No-185-in-the-2018-NFL-Draft

Yeah and there was a huge debate about Manning vs Leaf... People thought RG3 was going to dominate... Trent Richardson was supposed to be an all pro. Professional scouts can be wrong too. In this case, the professional scout who thought Cain could be a 3 level player is also wrong. And yeah my couch evaluation probably is better..

[Nickster]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:55 PM, LuckyHorseShoe§ said:

This is what saddens me. I love JB, he’s an awesome guy, but he really needs to be a backup. He is a great backup, mediocre starter.

I’d give a heck of lot to draft Burrow next year, and have JB and Hoyer tutor him.

I'm not sure JB is one you want working with QBs.

[Calmack]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

52 yards is actually a lot with this current QB... Yes, sarcasm, but also truth... 

And we know why he dropped. Puff puff... 

 

Here's what Ballard had to say

 

 

Good QBs don't last till round 6 either. This guy says hello.

Apart from Brady who also is a good 6th round QB? 

[coltfaninnewyork]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

I'm not sure JB is one you want working with QBs.

Or hoyer !!

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Calmack said:

Yeah and there was a huge debate about Manning vs Leaf... People thought RG3 was going to dominate... Trent Richardson was supposed to be an all pro. Professional scouts can be wrong to. In this case, the professional scout who thought Cain could be a 3 level player is also wrong. And yeah my couch evaluation probably is better..

So you're basing that off his first year with a bad QB...

A QB who has seen almost all his WRs and TE regress in most meaningful stats. 

But sure, rooks should be great right out of the gate coming back from a major injury.

 

pretty rich

[Calmack]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

So you're basing that off his first year with a bad QB...

A QB who has seen almost all his WRs and TE regress in most meaningful stats. 

But sure, rooks should be great right out of the gate coming back from a major injury.

 

pretty rich

I don't remember saying they should be great right out of the gate. Decent play is even welcomed. With Cain though, decent play was nowhere to be found. No point in all this back n forth though since he's on another team..

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Apart from Brady who also is a good 6th round QB? 

lol.. Fitzmagic was round 6 or 7...

Bart Starr was round 17.

Moon, Warner, Creig, Garcia, Romo, Delhomme, etc.. didn't even get drafted.

[Calmack]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

lol.. Fitzmagic was round 6 or 7...

Bart Starr was round 17.

Moon, Warner, Creig, Garcia, Romo, Delhomme, etc.. didn't even get drafted.

Fitzmagic? Lmao. Also a guy from a different era. 

Alright, what have all the rest accomplished with their teams? I know Warner was awesome for a while. Moon too. What are their combined playoff records? Total Superbowls? 

[hoosierhawk]

EastStreet, I commend you for your patients. It's like leading the blind out of the forest. tuff assignment that demands patients. Go man!!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I have seen a lot of talk that people want the colts to take Chase Claypool from ND. I don’t know where he is expected to be drafted though.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Fitzmagic? Lmao. Also a guy from a different era. 

Alright, what have all the rest accomplished with their teams? I know Warner was awesome for a while. Moon too. What are their combined playoff records? Total Superbowls? 

Man, you are reaching something fierce now. You asked for good not great in late rounds, and I just gave you several good and great..... Now you have a problem when, and they have to have SBs to be considered.. Keep moving the goal posts...

9 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

EastStreet, I commend you for your patients. It's like leading the blind out of the forest. tuff assignment that demands patients. Go man!!

herding cats :-)

[IndySouthsider]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Man, you are reaching something fierce now. You asked for good not great in late rounds, and I just gave you several good and great..... Now you have a problem when, and they have to have SBs to be considered.. Keep moving the goal posts...

herding cats :-)

Since you seems to be a numbers geek. What is the percentage of successful QB’s from rounds 1-3? What is the percentage from rounds 4-7? 

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I have seen a lot of talk that people want the colts to take Chase Claypool from ND. I don’t know where he is expected to be drafted though.

Claypool is a very good possession WR. If he test well in the 40 he'll move up nicely. He'll end up being a bargain for someone. Great hands and concentration. 

[Calmack]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Man, you are reaching something fierce now. You asked for good not great in late rounds, and I just gave you several good and great..... Now you have a problem when, and they have to have SBs to be considered.. Keep moving the goal posts...

herding cats :-)

Asking for Superbowls was a stretch. I don't think playoff performance was though. Isn't that the whole point of this game? A guy mentioned how hard it was to get a good 6th round QB and you replied with arguably the goat.... Literally the only 6th rd QB to have great success

[hoosierhawk]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Man, you are reaching something fierce now. You asked for good not great in late rounds, and I just gave you several good and great..... Now you have a problem when, and they have to have SBs to be considered.. Keep moving the goal posts...

herding cats :-)

Go man. I'm with you!!

[NDcolt]

It’s not our receivers that is the problem guys, it’s Jacoby.  The dude can’t scan the field to find the 3rd, 4th or 5th option.  That’s why Cain and Campbell have 10 receptions total.  If we don’t upgrade at QB, doesn’t matter who we have at wr.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, NDcolt said:

It’s not our receivers that is the problem guys, it’s Jacoby.  The dude can’t scan the field to find the 3rd, 4th or 5th option.  That’s why Cain and Campbell have 10 receptions total.  If we don’t upgrade at QB, doesn’t matter who we have at wr.

Campbell has been injured all season pretty much and Cain stinks as a route runner, try again but nice effort 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Since you seems to be a numbers geek. What is the percentage of successful QB’s from rounds 1-3? What is the percentage from rounds 4-7? 

 

Not exactly what you're asking, but 2 good reads below.

 

The first one is likely close to what you're looking for. What it says (see graph) is that QBs taken in the first and second round have close to the same AV probability (48ish%) of those close to the mean over the first five years. Big drop off in round 3, and then increases in later rounds. Take a look for the round specific. The second link is pretty cook as it goes deeper on 1st rounders, and breaks out elite and and bust probability.

 

Approximate Value (AV) per round per position in the first 5 years, and associate risk/success.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-some-positions-riskier-to-pick-than-others-in-the-nfl-draft/

 

first round % of being all pro, pro bowl, busts... 35ish year sample size

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2441018-which-positions-are-the-safest-riskiest-at-the-top-of-the-nfl-draft

 

 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, Calmack said:

Asking for Superbowls was a stretch. I don't think playoff performance was though. Isn't that the whole point of this game? A guy mentioned how hard it was to get a good 6th round QB and you replied with arguably the goat.... Literally the only 6th rd QB to have great success

Warner - SB champ, SB mvp, 4x pro bowler

Moon - MVP, 9xPBer, NFL man of the year

Romo- 4xPBer

Garcia - 4xPBer

Kreig - 3xPBer

 

Pro Bowl not "great success"? Several / a few of the above are record setters, HOFers, have retired numbers, ring of honor types..... 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

16 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

It’s not our receivers that is the problem guys, it’s Jacoby.  The dude can’t scan the field to find the 3rd, 4th or 5th option.  That’s why Cain and Campbell have 10 receptions total.  If we don’t upgrade at QB, doesn’t matter who we have at wr.

What does that have to do with needing another stud WR. Doesn’t matter who is the WB we need another one.

[NDcolt]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Campbell has been injured all season pretty much and Cain stinks as a route runner, try again but nice effort 

What about when both were starting?  Zero catches why?  I’m not here to bash just pointing out a flaw in our starting QB.  No field vision

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Campbell has been injured all season pretty much and Cain stinks as a route runner, try again but nice effort 

He ran a very nice route tonight and a very poor QB hit him for a very nice contested catch in a third and long situation to put them in field goal range.

It looked like this...

 

[NDcolt]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

What does that have to do with needing another stud WR. Doesn’t matter who is the WB we need another one.

We can have the top 4 receivers in the game today but it’s up to our qb to get them the damn ball.  So far he can’t!

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

He ran a very nice route tonight and a very poor QB hit him for a very nice contested catch in a third and long situation to put them in field goal range.

It looked like this...

 

1 lucky catch lol. When he starts averaging 7 catches for even 60 yards a game = over 8 yards a catch then I will be impressed. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

What about when both were starting?  Zero catches why?  I’m not here to bash just pointing out a flaw in our starting QB.  No field vision

Her missed all of camp. He never got off to the start he should. Had only played six games and has been in and out of the lineup. He never started by the way.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, NDcolt said:

We can have the top 4 receivers in the game today but it’s up to our qb to get them the damn ball.  So far he can’t!

This thread isn’t about the QB. It’s about the WR. If Luck was still here we would need another WR. There are plenty of threads to discuss the QB.