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Down the field WR's NEEDED!!!!

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3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Reich and Ballard love JB.  They will not trade up to get a QB and put JB on the bench.  The team loves him as well.  I do not think they would do that to him.  They might draft one in a later round to develop behind him though.  They are more likely to get JB another quality receiver.  They have the cap space and picks to trade for one and I can see them drafting one as well as most rookies will take a few years to develop.  Unless Luck gets itchy and comes out of retirement I think JB is our starter for the next few years at a minimum.  When you consider all of the circumstances surrounding the offense it certainly doesn't warrant a benching of the QB.  I think when they do their year end assessment that is what they are going to conclude.  

Then why are they sending their top scouts to watch QBs? Literally all year they've done this. 

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2 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Then why are they sending their top scouts to watch QBs? Literally all year they've done this. 

 

For the complimentary cookies obviously.

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6 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

No one has said bench him?

 I think when you trade up in the 1st rd to get a QB you are telling your team and QB you intend to make a change ASAP.  Like the upcoming year.  Players can see that coming for QBs like Manning and Rivers for example.  But JB is in a different category.  Now drafting one in the later rounds to develop for the future is different.  That is what BB has been doing for years.  

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9 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Then why are they sending their top scouts to watch QBs? Literally all year they've done this. 

Because they open to drafting one in the later rounds to develop for the future.

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Just now, richard pallo said:

Because they open to drafting one in the later rounds to develop for the future.

They're scouting Herbert, Love, and Burrow...all guys with 1st round grades. 

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

 I think when you trade up in the 1st rd to get a QB you are telling your team and QB you intend to make a change ASAP.  Like the upcoming year.  Players can see that coming for QBs like Manning and Rivers for example.  But JB is in a different category.  Now drafting one in the later rounds to develop for the future is different.  That is what BB has been doing for years.  

 

Ahh I thought you meant this year. My mistake. 

 

Even drafting a QB, I'd probably want Brissett to start next year as I doubt anyone we could draft is ready. 


Regards the above, KC started Smith still for a season even after moving up. 

Just now, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

They're scouting Herbert, Love, and Burrow...all guys with 1st round grades. 

 

Isn't that what all human beings want? Love? 

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I doubt drafting a QB in the later rounds is going to get you a future QB. You have three choices. You can trade up and get a QB. At that point your done with Jacoby and that rookie is starting next year. It would be interesting how the team would respond to Jacoby if they moved up and sat him a year. Maybe there will be one in the second round that you sit a year.  Or the third option is get another big time WR and other pieces then see what you have.  It’s all going to depend who is there where we pick and what direction they decide to go. I think drafting a QB later then the second is pretty much  waste of a pick.

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4 hours ago, DEFENSE said:

this team lacks elite proven talent in many areas, we have too many project draft picks and cheap dropsy wide receiver free agents

Slightly off topic, but yes.  We've invested capital in projects.  I won't say just like we did with TJ Green, but its not that far off.  

 

I'm tired of investing based on projections....or the NFL term...high ceiling.

 

I've become a low floor kind of guy.

 

Kelly, Nelson, Smith were all low floor guys.  Outside of Leonard, they have been our best draft picks over the past few years because they consistently perform at a high level, where they were expected to perform nearly on day one.

 

Turay, Lewis, Benagu, and Hooker for that matter, have been high picks that were based upon their perceived ceilings.  Wilson had some polish issues too, as did Basham.  Hines was a 4th, but he's not done as much as he needs to for a player getting PT in a skilled position.

 

They were all drafted no later than the third.  IMO, its taken too long for them to have earned their draft spots.  Turay and Benagu have more time.

 

I'm for drafting guys in the first 2 rounds this year....three picks...that are low floor guys.  A possession WR, a DT that can outplay Hunt or Grover on day one, but might not ever be an all-pro, and either an all around TE to replace both Ebron and Doyle (mainly Ebron) or a RB that can run through a tackle.

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6 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Slightly off topic, but yes.  We've invested capital in projects.  I won't say just like we did with TJ Green, but its not that far off.  

 

I'm tired of investing based on projections....or the NFL term...high ceiling.

 

I've become a low floor kind of guy.

 

Kelly, Nelson, Smith were all low floor guys.  Outside of Leonard, they have been our best draft picks over the past few years because they consistently perform at a high level, where they were expected to perform nearly on day one.

 

Turay, Lewis, Benagu, and Hooker for that matter, have been high picks that were based upon their perceived ceilings.  Wilson had some polish issues too, as did Basham.  Hines was a 4th, but he's not done as much as he needs to for a player getting PT in a skilled position.

 

They were all drafted no later than the third.  IMO, its taken too long for them to have earned their draft spots.  Turay and Benagu have more time.

 

I'm for drafting guys in the first 2 rounds this year....three picks...that are low floor guys.  A possession WR, a DT that can outplay Hunt or Grover on day one, but might not ever be an all-pro, and either an all around TE to replace both Ebron and Doyle (mainly Ebron) or a RB that can run through a tackle.

Wouldn't matter if you drafted the next Tony Gonzalez and OBJ if the QB can't make the reads necessary, or make the reads quickly enough, to utilize their talent. 

 

I don't know how you look at Brissett this year and think he is gonna blossom into a franchise guy that will lead us to deep playoff runs. He's averaging under 170 yards and less than a full TD (0.8) per game in the last 6, that's practically nonexistent. You have to have to have more production from that position. 

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3 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Wouldn't matter if you drafted the next Tony Gonzalez and OBJ if the QB can't make the reads necessary, or make the reads quickly enough, to utilize their talent. 

 

I don't know how you look at Brissett this year and think he is gonna blossom into a franchise guy that will lead us to deep playoff runs. He's averaging under 170 yards and less than a full TD (0.8) per game in the last 6, that's practically nonexistent. You have to have to have more production from that position. 

He's probably not a "franchise" QB and never will be.  I've said that I don't want a franchise guy, not at least the kind of guy it takes to give us a Manning/Luck performance, with an equal investment of capital.

 

Does Lamar Jackson read defenses, or does he just take off after his first read?   Does Mahomes go through progressions, or does he make his money by running around in the backfield and convert on improvisations?  How are Mariota, Mayfield, Rosen, and Darnold doing?

 

Just curious as to how important having a franchise QB, the kind who makes presnap and immediate post snap reads,  is these days.  I say build the team another way, since they don't seem to exist coming out of college anyway.

 

Maybe the team would look differently if the guys we drafted played up to their potential.  Hard to blame it all on JB at this point, but he can certainly improve.

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

He's probably not a "franchise" QB and never will be.  I've said that I don't want a franchise guy, not at least the kind of guy it takes to give us a Manning/Luck performance, with an equal investment of capital.

 

Does Lamar Jackson read defenses, or does he just take off after his first read?   Does Mahomes go through progressions, or does he make his money by running around in the backfield and convert on improvisations?  How are Mariota, Mayfield, Rosen, and Darnold doing?

 

Just curious as to how important having a franchise QB, the kind who makes presnap and immediate post snap reads,  is these days.  I say build the team another way, since they don't seem to exist coming out of college anyway.

 

Maybe the team would look differently if the guys we drafted played up to their potential.  Hard to blame it all on JB at this point, but he can certainly improve.

Lol Lamar Jackson and Pat Mahomes are the 2 best young QBs in the league atm, so I don't even want to get into a conversation that includes JB in context. 

 

Mayfield and Darnold will be fine. Rosen was dealt probably the worst hand a 1st round quarterback ever has, hard to fault him, Mariota dealt with injuries so it's hard to know what could have been. 

 

If that's your line of thinking then take a guy like Jalen Hurts in the 2nd. He's a Lamar Jackson lite, and wouldn't require much salary at all. One thing is for sure, he's a playmaker, he's accountable for around 4000 yards and 35 TDs for Oklahoma this season and still has several games, and only has 4 picks the entire year, that's impressive. 

 

Idk how the team is going to be built, and I know everyone and their mom is trying to find someone to blame atm. They'll be fine, look at what the team did last year with competent quarterback play. I fully trust Ballard/Reich to figure it out this offseason with the draft capital and cap space they have at their disposal. I'm actually thoroughly impressed that they've squeezed this much out of the team with Luck's retirement and all of the injuries. 

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27 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I doubt drafting a QB in the later rounds is going to get you a future QB. You have three choices. You can trade up and get a QB. At that point your done with Jacoby and that rookie is starting next year. It would be interesting how the team would respond to Jacoby if they moved up and sat him a year. Maybe there will be one in the second round that you sit a year.  Or the third option is get another big time WR and other pieces then see what you have.  It’s all going to depend who is there where we pick and what direction they decide to go. I think drafting a QB later then the second is pretty much  waste of a pick.

so according to you we cant get a QB of the future in a later round and anything after the 2nd is a wasted pick? you also think JB is this great QB that can't be replaced. did you know he was drafted in the 3rd? lol

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4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

so according to you we cant get a QB of the future in a later round and anything after the 2nd is a wasted pick? you also think JB is this great QB that can't be replaced. did you know he was drafted in the 3rd? lol

Once you get into the third your chances are not going to be great. Wilson is very rare. That doesn’t happen often. All I am saying if you are looking for a future QB your probably not going to find one after round two.

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4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

so according to you we cant get a QB of the future in a later round and anything after the 2nd is a wasted pick? you also think JB is this great QB that can't be replaced. did you know he was drafted in the 3rd? lol

The two leading candidates for MVP (Jackson, Wilson) were taken 32nd or after... 

 

Wilson was in the 3rd lol.

 

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Just now, EastStreet said:

The two leading candidates for MVP (Jackson, Wilson) were taken 32nd or after... 

 

Wilson was in the 3rd lol.

 

Wilson is something rare that you don’t see often. I think anything after the second your chances are not very good at finding the future.

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It all depends on how many QB go before us. I would rather get other pieces then take the 9th or 10th best QB. We should add pieces this year to make the team stronger. Then in 2021 you can then trade up for a QB If it’s a issue. I want to bring a young QB in with the best team possible.

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5 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Wilson is something rare that you don’t see often. I think anything after the second your chances are not very good at finding the future.

 

Mahomes - 1st

Cousins - 4th

Prescott - 4th

Wilson - 3rd

Stafford - 1st

Jackson - 1st

Carr - 2nd

Rodgers - 1st

Brees - 2nd

Watson - 1st 

 

Or as it's "all about wins" ... add in 

 

Bridgewater - 1st

Brady - 6th 

Garopolo - 2nd 

 

Nothing is a sure thing, but you certainly can take later than the 1st and end up with a franchise guy. 

 

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46 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Slightly off topic, but yes.  We've invested capital in projects.  I won't say just like we did with TJ Green, but its not that far off.  

 

I'm tired of investing based on projections....or the NFL term...high ceiling.

 

I've become a low floor kind of guy.

 

 

Uh, I meant high floor of course.

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2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

It all depends on how many QB go before us. I would rather get other pieces then take the 9th or 10th best QB. We should add pieces this year to make the team stronger. Then in 2021 you can then trade up for a QB If it’s a issue. I want to bring a young QB in with the best team possible.

 

You think 8 QBs are going in the 1st round...?

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19 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Once you get into the third your chances are not going to be great. Wilson is very rare. That doesn’t happen often. All I am saying if you are looking for a future QB your probably not going to find one after round two.

that's why everyone that wants an upgrade says to draft one in the 1st or early 2nd

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8 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Mahomes - 1st

Cousins - 4th

Prescott - 4th

Wilson - 3rd

Stafford - 1st

Jackson - 1st

Carr - 2nd

Rodgers - 1st

Brees - 2nd

Watson - 1st 

 

Or as it's "all about wins" ... add in 

 

Bridgewater - 1st

Brady - 6th 

Garopolo - 2nd 

 

Nothing is a sure thing, but you certainly can take later than the 1st and end up with a franchise guy. 

 

I never said you can’t get anything after the first. I said once you get into the third your chances go down.

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At most, there will be 5-6 guys to go total in the 1st, maybe less now that Tua is hurt.

 

I'd say, in order:

 

1)Burrow

2)Herbert

3)Eason

4)Fromm

5)Love

6)Hurts

 

Tua would be in there somewhere if he declares, Love and Eason could also return to school. I'd say those 7 guys (with Tua) are the only ones with legit 1st round potential. By the time we pick in the first we should have a chance at all but probably Burrow and Herbert, depending how the year finishes out. If we end up around 15th or so we may be in range to make a move for Herbert. I'd want 1)Herbert 2)Eason or 3)Hurts. 

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54 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Lol Lamar Jackson and Pat Mahomes are the 2 best young QBs in the league atm, so I don't even want to get into a conversation that includes JB in context. 

 

Mayfield and Darnold will be fine. Rosen was dealt probably the worst hand a 1st round quarterback ever has, hard to fault him, Mariota dealt with injuries so it's hard to know what could have been. 

 

If that's your line of thinking then take a guy like Jalen Hurts in the 2nd. He's a Lamar Jackson lite, and wouldn't require much salary at all. One thing is for sure, he's a playmaker, he's accountable for around 4000 yards and 35 TDs for Oklahoma this season and still has several games, and only has 4 picks the entire year, that's impressive. 

 

Idk how the team is going to be built, and I know everyone and their mom is trying to find someone to blame atm. They'll be fine, look at what the team did last year with competent quarterback play. I fully trust Ballard/Reich to figure it out this offseason with the draft capital and cap space they have at their disposal. I'm actually thoroughly impressed that they've squeezed this much out of the team with Luck's retirement and all of the injuries. 

But the context of JB, we are criticizing his pregression reads.  Hardly anything else is being criticized.  I'm assuming the lack of defensive coverage awareness is why people call him not a franchise QB. 

 

Lamar and Mohomes have not displayed such awareness either, IMO.  Not that they don't have it, its just not considered to be the basis for saying they are the best young QBs in the NFL.  To me, a QBs running ability lasts about as long as it did for Kaepernick and Griffin, so we'll see if Lamar becomes elite for other reasons.  And converting sandlot improvisations maintains its longevity for about as long as it did for Johnny Manziel, so we'll see if Mahomes becomes elite for other reasons.

 

So, no, I would not want Jalen Hurts, Tua, or even Kyler Murray as my QB, if I'm counting on the QB to carry the load by reading defenses like I would if I labeled him a franchise QB.  I'm not saying they don't have that ability, its merely not been talked about in their skill set.  The hype has been about other things.

 

I'm not sure how injuries have impacted Mariota's progressions analysis, or if he ever had much of one to begin with.  It seems Darnold and Rosen have as much starting experience as JB, so I don't know why any of them would be on a different learning trajectory.

 

It seem like any college QB we draft, outside of a Manning or Luck, will have as many questions about their ability to read NFL defenses that we are having with JB, so I can't see why its so readily accepted to chuck JB in favor of a mid first or early second round talented college QB.

 

From what I've seen Fromm has that mental connection and maturity, but I'm not sure he has the physical tools.  Burrow seemed impressive in the few times I've seen him, has more of a physical game than Fromm but less awareness, IMO. 

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50 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Wilson is something rare that you don’t see often. I think anything after the second your chances are not very good at finding the future.

I agree. It's very possible you'll have two good option in the late first or second this year.

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12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

But the context of JB, we are criticizing his pregression reads.  Hardly anything else is being criticized.  I'm assuming the lack of defensive coverage awareness is why people call him not a franchise QB. 

 

Lamar and Mohomes have not displayed such awareness either, IMO.  Not that they don't have it, its just not considered to be the basis for saying they are the best young QBs in the NFL.  To me, a QBs running ability lasts about as long as it did for Kaepernick and Griffin, so we'll see if Lamar becomes elite for other reasons.  And converting sandlot improvisations maintains its longevity for about as long as it did for Johnny Manziel, so we'll see if Mahomes becomes elite for other reasons.

 

So, no, I would not want Jalen Hurts, Tua, or even Kyler Murray as my QB, if I'm counting on the QB to carry the load by reading defenses like I would if I labeled him a franchise QB.  I'm not saying they don't have that ability, its merely not been talked about in their skill set.  The hype has been about other things.

 

I'm not sure how injuries have impacted Mariota's progressions analysis, or if he ever had much of one to begin with.  It seems Darnold and Rosen have as much starting experience as JB, so I don't know why any of them would be on a different learning trajectory.

 

It seem like any college QB we draft, outside of a Manning or Luck, will have as many questions about their ability to read NFL defenses that we are having with JB, so I can't see why its so readily accepted to chuck JB in favor of a mid first or early second round talented college QB.

 

From what I've seen Fromm has that mental connection and maturity, but I'm not sure he has the physical tools.  Burrow seemed impressive in the few times I've seen him, has more of a physical game than Fromm but less awareness, IMO. 

So, unless it's a generational guy like Luck or Manning we should stick with a guy that can't even average 170 yards passing or a full touchdown? 

 

Mahomes and Jackson have at least 1 thing they do that's elite elite, best in the league. Mahomes has the best improvisation skills in the league, and Jackson has the ability to take the game over with his legs. JB has absolutely nothing that he does better than average. Again, to compare those guys is like comparing Ford Escorts to Lamborghinis. 

 

I don't agree at all that there's no guys in this class that will be Pro Bowl caliber players, I think there's probably 5 that have that potential, I'll leave it Ballard/Reich to choose the one they see fit. 

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Venturi also mentioned today he thinks Reich is being so conservative because the lack of talent at WR. He is saying let’s run the ball and play good defense and see if we can pull it out. He was adamant it isn’t because of the QB.

 

He also doesn’t like Houston. He said he thinks they are going to fall apart. He said watch out for that Denver game. They can play great defense against the Texans.

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Venturi also mentioned today he thinks Reich is being so conservative because the lack of talent at WR. He is saying let’s run the ball and play good defense and see if we can pull it out. He was adamant it isn’t because of the QB.

 

He also doesn’t like Houston. He said he thinks they are going to fall apart. He said watch out for that Denver game. They can play great defense against the Texans.

Do yourself a favor and research Venturi if you're not familiar with his track record. 

My 70+ year old mother knows more about offense.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Do yourself a favor and research Venturi if you're not familiar with his track record. 

My 70+ year old mother knows more about offense.

Well considering our WR group it’s not that far of a stretch. Reich only has so much to work with. We had six WR to start the season and only two are on the roster and a hobbled TY.  

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well considering our WR group it’s not that far of a stretch. Reich only has so much to work with. We had six WR to start the season and only two are on the roster and a hobbled TY.  

we had the same guys we beat Houston with earlier this year.... Venturi is someone you listen too only if you want to know what not to think (about O). 

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2 hours ago, shastamasta said:

I don't disagree...this upcoming draft class happens to be loaded. The perfect opportunity to pair a QB and WR...and create the next Luck/Hilton duo.

Who is this quarterback and who is this wide receiver that would get in the middle of the first round and early 2nd question ?

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16 hours ago, King Colt said:

I don't see Houston beating Tennessee both games and I sure don't see them beating NE because of the head coaches alone.

I hope you’re right. We’ll need to sneak past the cows to get into the playoffs, so them losing at least once to the Titans would be fantastic. We just can’t do the same

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2 hours ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

Then why are they sending their top scouts to watch QBs? Literally all year they've done this. 

Imma tell you Utah state has this awesome linebacker... we might be watching him.

 

1 minute ago, indyagent17 said:

Who is this quarterback and who is this wide receiver that would get in the middle of the first round and early 2nd question ?

 

Jordan Love and... Laviska Shenault(he's not a burner though)? If you want a burner... Jalen Raegor or Henry Ruggs ... maybe Devonta Smith... 

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6 hours ago, stitches said:

More like down the field QB is needed. 

This is what saddens me. I love JB, he’s an awesome guy, but he really needs to be a backup. He is a great backup, mediocre starter.

I’d give a heck of lot to draft Burrow next year, and have JB and Hoyer tutor him.

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6 hours ago, MPStack said:


I never bought the Cain hype, but I will say this, if Cain produces with the Steelers, you have to look at Brissett.

another project lower round draft pick with a lot of dropped passes, was in the low rounds for a reason, fast but couldnt catch the ball

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45 minutes ago, stitches said:

Imma tell you Utah state has this awesome linebacker... we might be watching him.

 

 

Jordan Love and... Laviska Shenault(he's not a burner though)? If you want a burner... Jalen Raegor or Henry Ruggs ... maybe Devonta Smith... 

 

Yeah man, I'd say the odds are probably greater than 75% that they take a QB somewhere in those first 3 picks. 

 

 He's scouted basically every game where 2 higher profile QBs went head to head, Oregon/Washington, LSU/Utah State, etc. Ballard was quoted saying he particularly liked Jordan Love and Herbert, and the 2020 WR class in general, so I'd say those 2 are addressed with our earlier picks (first 4 on Day 1/2). Just a blind man throwing darts over here, though lol. I have faith they will get it worked out whatever they decide to do. 

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18 hours ago, Tombstone said:

With a Running game the Colts have, play action deep balls or atleast some down the field throws you think should be there.

Brissett did have time to throw the ball and yes TY did have two drops.  Where was the other WR's.....  Some one here did say they wished Fuller wasn't going to play tonight and I felt the same way....  To me WR's need is just as big DB's.  Colts run defense is Stout. It's kind of funny now that we are going to have to root for the Patriots to beat the Texans now....  

 

WR period we need a overhall done to the entire core TY's replacement isn't currently on this roster.

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6 minutes ago, jameszeigler834 said:

WR period we need a overhall done to the entire core TY's replacement isn't currently on this roster.

I agree. I think TY and Campbell are about the only two we should keep. Pascal is good as your 4th or 5th with his blocking ability. We could use two WR on this roster. One in the draft another in FA. I am not going to hedge my bets on Foutain or anyone else.

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1 hour ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

So, unless it's a generational guy like Luck or Manning we should stick with a guy that can't even average 170 yards passing or a full touchdown? 

 

Mahomes and Jackson have at least 1 thing they do that's elite elite, best in the league. Mahomes has the best improvisation skills in the league, and Jackson has the ability to take the game over with his legs. JB has absolutely nothing that he does better than average. Again, to compare those guys is like comparing Ford Escorts to Lamborghinis. 

 

I don't agree at all that there's no guys in this class that will be Pro Bowl caliber players, I think there's probably 5 that have that potential, I'll leave it Ballard/Reich to choose the one they see fit. 

If that 170 yards passing average has enough seasoning to it to consider it the level-set norm, then we should move on.

 

Let me ask you, if a QB had 170 yards passing average with Harrison, Wayne, Stokely, Clark and Addai as skilled position players and Glenn and Saturday as olinemen and another QB has TY sometimes, nobody, nobody, nobody, and nobody (Mack being hurt), and AC and Kelly as olinemen, does that make a difference in how you view that 170 yard passing average? 

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13 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I agree. I think TY and Campbell are about the only two we should keep. Pascal is good as your 4th or 5th with his blocking ability. We could use two WR on this roster. One in the draft another in FA. I am not going to hedge my bets on Foutain or anyone else.

JB hasn't been playing with his intended roster.  I agree with you about JB, but already deciding to move on from Funchess and Campbell is also premature, IMO.  I have stopped short of criticizing Ballard because its obvious to me he saw a need to upgrade the WR position from last year, and that was the year we had the offense performing well under Luck.  We need even more of an upgrade this year, and we don't know if DF or PC are those guys.

 

One thing we know we need is DT help.  And I think RB help.  Mack is Addai (if you remember him) but we have no Rhodes.  And we have no Sproles.

 

But to improve the passing game from what we have, I think investing capital in a stud TE that can do more things than both Doyle and Ebron combined would make the most sense, because we have no younger players at TE with which to see what we have.

 

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2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Mahomes - 1st

Cousins - 4th

Prescott - 4th

Wilson - 3rd

Stafford - 1st

Jackson - 1st

Carr - 2nd

Rodgers - 1st

Brees - 2nd

Watson - 1st 

 

Or as it's "all about wins" ... add in 

 

Bridgewater - 1st

Brady - 6th 

Garopolo - 2nd 

 

Nothing is a sure thing, but you certainly can take later than the 1st and end up with a franchise guy. 

 

Yes you can, but nobody knows that at the time the draft picks roll off. 

 

The QBs that become franchise guys later than round two is probably the result of dumb luck. 

 

If GMs said, "hey , I'm going to get my franchise guy in round 3 that I know will be better than my starter I have now for years to come " frankly, they wouldn't wait past pick 15 to draft that known quantity and would trade a bunch to move up to get him.

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