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Colts passing game is a joke


BProland85

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Before the season began, I predicted this team would go 11-5 with or without Luck. Now, I'm not so sure. Hey, the team could still win out and prove me right but I highly doubt it. I thought Brissett could be THE GUY. I'm not sure anymore after the performance on Thursday. Either Reich run the ball too much(predictable gameplan) or he doesn't trust Brissett with the ball. Like everyone else has said, Brissett is a game manager. He checks down too much. He stares down WRs. He throws are so slow when receivers are open. Brissett slow indecisions/trigger is what give defenders time to cover back wide open WRs.  I could be wrong on all of this and maybe it just was a bad game. But, its very troubling sign for Brissett. 

 

If this season doesn't work out, I hope Luck comes back out of retirement. Maybe, just maybe, Tua or Joe Burrow fall to us in the draft and we can scoop either one of them up. Just my two cents. Back to ballin in basketball

 

Schwaaagg,

 

James Harden 

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4 hours ago, stitches said:

 

On the replay from the back camera(what Brissett is seeing) it shows TY getting open in the middle of the zone, but Braden gets beat WAY too quickly. If he holds the block for like... 0.2 second more...  and if Brissett had the anticipation(not sure  he could make that throw as quickly as that because he needs to throw it before TY is open) that's a 15 yards gain and 1st down. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/videos?id=10103061-7033-0000-0107-9237a969484b

 

This is not on Brissett, but IMO some elite QBs make that play - first step into the pocket to get yourself those extra 0.2 seconds and then throw with anticipation to the spot TY is going to end up at. It's really hard to blame it on Brissett though... he shouldn't expect Braden to get beat this badly and this quickly.

 

Look at this:

sGhlICW.jpg

 

this is about when he needs to throw it... but he is busy trying to avoid Martin. Maybe the elite of the elite with pocket presence would start stepping up into the pocket a fraction of a second earlier and create themselves a throwing window, but IMO it's not fair to ask that of any QB, this is just a really bad play by Braden. 

 

 

 

Yes, can't wait until I get all 22 (sideline and endzone view every play) on game pass is up.

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3 hours ago, stitches said:

So yeah, I would agree, you probably can find multiple plays where Brissett holds the ball and is slow to read his progressions, etc. 

 

I'm objective. If All 22 shows them, I'll say so. Likewise, the converse.

 

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

It was the only sack of the night, from the literal worst team in total QB pressure.

 

It was the first pass play of the game I studied!  Then stopped.

When All 22 up on NFL game pass, I''l pick back up. If Jb stinks... I'll see and call it. If other factors intrude, I'll look for/see them too and   point them out.  I'm not alli in on JB7, especially if Reich is limiting the playbook for him...

 

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

My observation of the receivers was purely to address the the state of open-ness vs the zone. 

 

Which brings in new variables, like D personnel grouping, cover shell, man / vs zone, leverage on receivers, etc. The you have t O side, who is running what route, against man or zone, what adjustment is made because of the defender leverage, etc...

 

It's not backyard football - ' go out and run around... when you break free i'll hit you..' It

doesn't work that way until the play breaks down and it's a scramble drill.

 

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

If you're intent is to show that the OL whiffed on that one play, you win the prize!

 

 

Thanks, so that one is off the blame list... plenty of All 22 tape to see, and he made 2/3 of his passes too (admittedly not all right on target though).

 

4 hours ago, EastStreet said:

But you also succeeded in putting huge holes in the narrative going around that WRs/TEs aren't getting open, or that the switch to zone by Houston some how locked down our receiving options. 

 I haven't seen the tape. And 2 out of 3 throws were completed.  I'm interested in the one's that were not, and why.

 

I'll be looking maybe as early as tomorrow if NFL gets coaches film uploaded to Game Pass.

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22 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Another bad playcall by frank....ran too much and didn't do enough play action just sorry

I don't get to watch too many colt games. But I've seen like 3 out of last 4 and agree playcalling/ play designs not stellar.

 

It's hard to win with sub par qb play and play calling.

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When we played the Texans the first time he had lots of pressure. What made him really good that game was he did step up into the pocket to avoid the sack. It’s probably the only game he has had where there was pressure and he didn’t scramble out of the pocket but stepped up and threw it.

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Love JB, great guy, great locker room presence, team player, but it's obvious he's not the guy.  To slow to pick up his reads, causing him to use his arm strength, aka, bullet throws, trying to beat the defender, plus his fear of throwing an int, waiting for the wr to create more separation then needed.

 

This season is not over, i'm not giving up yet, but in reality we have a great game management QB as our starter, and an overpaid backup, that I still do not understand why we signed him, to fall back on.  

 

I'm not a big Swag fan but once we are eliminated from the playoffs, I think it would be a great time to bring up, give him some experience and see what he's got.  Just maybe we don't have to draft a QB and focus on the other issues we have.  Just a thought.

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For most of the past 20 years we've had no defense.  For most of the past 15 years we've had no O-line or running game.  Now that we finally do, we have no QB.  Life as a Colt fan.

 

I will say that Brissett has been somewhat better than I imagined and had he no gotten hurt, had Vinatieri not missed the kicks he did you would probably be 8-3.  That said, I don't think you can win consistently or be a championship team playing like this.  To win consistently over many years, you need a QB who can carry you for stretches. To win titles, you need a QB who can carry you at times.  With Brissett, you're in QB purgatory.  Sure you can be a scrappy team, and if everything goes right, you might go 9-7 or 10-6 and make the playoffs, but you will never be a serious championship contender.

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On 11/21/2019 at 8:47 PM, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

People blaming Ballard and Reich? Really? 

 

Luck won with these guys "that can't get open", so please stop with the "Ballard didn't do enough" crap, that's not what this is about. Luck retired 2 weeks before the season, or this team may be undefeated, again this isn't on coaching or management. Jacoby Brissett isn't able to make plays with this set of weapons, how is it Ballard's fault that the guy he had planned to utilize those weapons (the one that won Comeback Player of the Year with them) retired right before the season? Answer: it isn't. They didn't build this team for slow-* Jacoby Brissett to misread everything and be entirely too slow to make any of the reads necessary to implement Frank Reich's offense. 

 

After this season, they will spend the cap, if for no other reason than they have to, get some playmakers, they're gonna draft a guy that can run this offense, and next year this team will be firing on all cylinders. 

I think your post has reasonable logic. The Colts are just trying to make do the best they can. Reich can't be happy with the passing attack any more than we are but like the Ravens coach, he is changing his game plans to maximize his chance of winning based on the personnel he has. I need to give Ballard the same slack. He drafted thinking he had Luck and a good backup. So he drafted defense. Okereke, Willis, Tell are good additions. Banagu might be. Not sure on Ya-Sin but  he has played a lot and could get better.  Maybe dump offs to to the Ohio State wr will help Brissett because he sure doesn't like passing downfield. It's funny about the draft...i thought Speed would be the star. Obviously it's Willis.

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10 hours ago, richard pallo said:

I don't see much downside this late in the season.  He might be down to one last chance.  He would be looking to signing with a team that has a chance to be in the playoffs and secure an opportunity for a chance at longer term employment.  If he was ever going to be a model citizen and teammate this would be the time.  His friend TY would most likely be right by his side introducing him to his new team and city.  Out of all the possible landing spots he could do a lot worse than Indianapolis.  And we know his football talent is far superior to any WR on our team.  So hypothetically speaking I would.  


brown aside.  No one is going to want to come to Indy to try to earn a contract with Brisett at QB.

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20 minutes ago, stitches said:

Let this one sink in:

 

If you remove the Rosen start, Miami won't be on that list either...

Yeah that is bad, we rank 29th in yards passing per game but there is also a reason for that, being we are ranked 3rd in rushing yards per game at 144.2. Reich just loves to run it, whether it is a JB problem or he just feels we can overwhelm teams with our Line I am not sure.

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36 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah that is bad, we rank 29th in yards passing per game but there is also a reason for that, being we are ranked 3rd in rushing yards per game at 144.2. Reich just loves to run it, whether it is a JB problem or he just feels we can overwhelm teams with our Line I am not sure.

 

Yards per game can be skewed by how many offensive plays your run, or don't run as the case may be. Per attempt gives a better oranges oranges comparison I feel:

 

Passing: 6.1 Y/A (24th)

Rushing 4.5 Y/A (10th) 

 

It's harder to win with just a rushing attack these days though.  

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12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

It was the first pass play of the game I studied!  Then stopped.

When All 22 up on NFL game pass, I''l pick back up. If Jb stinks... I'll see and call it. If other factors intrude, I'll look for/see them too and   point them out.  I'm not alli in on JB7, especially if Reich is limiting the playbook for him...

I trust ya CBFL.

 

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Which brings in new variables, like D personnel grouping, cover shell, man / vs zone, leverage on receivers, etc. The you have t O side, who is running what route, against man or zone, what adjustment is made because of the defender leverage, etc...

 

It's not backyard football - ' go out and run around... when you break free i'll hit you..' It

doesn't work that way until the play breaks down and it's a scramble drill.

I agree it's not BYFB, but if we're talking purely about separation or being open, the "not open" narrative can be debunked. I personally don't see a lot of breakdowns, but when we do, IMO JB is actually better finding the open guy.

 

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Thanks, so that one is off the blame list... plenty of All 22 tape to see, and he made 2/3 of his passes too (admittedly not all right on target though).

It is off the JB blame list, and on the OL blame list...... 

but it's still solidly on the "counter the not-open narrative" list.

 

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I haven't seen the tape. And 2 out of 3 throws were completed.  I'm interested in the one's that were not, and why.

 

I'll be looking maybe as early as tomorrow if NFL gets coaches film uploaded to Game Pass.

IMO, to get the full story, one also has to look at completions and grade them too (accuracy, leading, anticipation, timing, touch), not to mention how that target's open-ness compares to other options. 

 

Not trying to give you more work :-), just giving my opinion on the topic. As you know, I truly appreciate all the good work and effort you put in.

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10 hours ago, colt18 said:

It hit his hands and he dropped it. I've seen Hopkins catch worse passes.

 

Hines also had a very bad drop.

Drops are graded. DB pressure and placement are considered. The two TY misses likely won't be drops, maybe one at most. The Hines one yes IIRC.

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I think for the first time after that game Thursday the media really asked Reich hard questions after the game about the passing game. This is probably the first time I think it really has been brought up in a big way. It will be interesting to see if anything changes against the titans. Having that kind of rushing attack should open up the passing game and it isn’t. Hopefully we have DF and Campbell back with a healthy TY for that game.

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

Let this one sink in:

 

If you remove the Rosen start, Miami won't be on that list either...

It's something not easily explained away.

52 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah that is bad, we rank 29th in yards passing per game but there is also a reason for that, being we are ranked 3rd in rushing yards per game at 144.2. Reich just loves to run it, whether it is a JB problem or he just feels we can overwhelm teams with our Line I am not sure.

I read your reply and thought of exactly what SCC just posted. When you struggle not only in YPG, but also Y/A, it really doesn't have a lot to do with liking to run. You might argue scheme, but we know it's not typical based on previous Reich Os. If anything it leads to Reich's level of confidence + JB ability.

16 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Yards per game can be skewed by how many offensive plays your run, or don't run as the case may be. Per attempt gives a better oranges oranges comparison I feel:

 

Passing: 6.1 Y/A (24th)

Rushing 4.5 Y/A (10th) 

 

It's harder to win with just a rushing attack these days though.  

Thank you. Was going to post the same.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I think for the first time after that game Thursday the media really asked Reich hard questions after the game about the passing game. This is probably the first time I think it really has been brought up in a big way. It will be interesting to see if anything changes against the titans. Having that kind of rushing attack should open up the passing game and it isn’t. Hopefully we have DF and Campbell back with a healthy TY for that game.

I have yet to watch the PGP but will this morning.

The media who has been pro-JB mostly, are starting to turn. Ws keep them restrained. Ls not so much. I expect the questions to get tougher. 

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11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I have yet to watch the PGP but will this morning.

The media who has been pro-JB mostly, are starting to turn. Ws keep them restrained. Ls not so much. I expect the questions to get tougher. 

Against the Titans our WR's should be back and healthy. I will be a little surprised if we do not throw more.

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36 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I have yet to watch the PGP but will this morning.

The media who has been pro-JB mostly, are starting to turn. Ws keep them restrained. Ls not so much. I expect the questions to get tougher. 

There was also a lot of hard questions on the phone conference yesterday if you want to listen to it. One thing I find interesting about Reich is all these analytics and how much of a numbers guy he is. Sometimes I think it hurts his play calling. Sometimes you just need to go for it and go with your gut and forget about numbers.  He gets to wrapped up in having to run or pass to many times and chunk numbers ect. Just let the game unfold like it’s supposed to. This is where Kevin Bowen was getting when he thinks frank has got a little to much in JB head.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah that is bad, we rank 29th in yards passing per game but there is also a reason for that, being we are ranked 3rd in rushing yards per game at 144.2. Reich just loves to run it, whether it is a JB problem or he just feels we can overwhelm teams with our Line I am not sure.

Guess how many passing yards we averaged last year? Not so sure it's Reich "loving to pass it", as it is Reich playing to personnel strengths. 

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50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I trust ya CBFL.

 

Thanks, i'll try to be unbiased.

 

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I agree it's not BYFB, but if we're talking purely about separation or being open, the "not open" narrative can be debunked. I personally don't see a lot of breakdowns, but when we do, IMO JB is actually better finding the open guy.

 

True, he was, at least before the knee...

 

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It is off the JB blame list, and on the OL blame list...... 

but it's still solidly on the "counter the not-open narrative" list.

 

Which raises more questions-

Did the WR's and QB 'see' the same cover leverage by their respective DB's and read route adjustments correctly.

 

Who is target #1 each play; and if that guy is covered or doubled consistently, shouldn't the QB look to target #2 earlier in the play than they typically would? Etc...

 

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IMO, to get the full story, one also has to look at completions and grade them too (accuracy, leading, anticipation, timing, touch), not to mention how that target's open-ness compares to other options. 

 

I'll look at them, but I'm not a scout and would likely not call some of those subjective assessments correctly.  Many/most fans cant. We have a few I hear I'd give credence to, though.

 

50 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Not trying to give you more work :-), just giving my opinion on the topic. As you know, I truly appreciate all the good work and effort you put in.

 

:)  If I can't do the work {fairly?} well, I'll admit it and lessen my load. :lecture: Let others handle it.

 

Coaches film is still not posted yet. :(

 

 

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58 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Against the Titans our WR's should be back and healthy. I will be a little surprised if we do not throw more.

IDK lol. TN has a decent pass D. 

If we don't pass against one of the worst, not sure we'll pass vs a top 10ish.

Last week's game plan totally confused the sheet out of me.

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15 hours ago, James Harden said:

Before the season began, I predicted this team would go 11-5 with or without Luck. Now, I'm not so sure. Hey, the team could still win out and prove me right but I highly doubt it. I thought Brissett could be THE GUY. I'm not sure anymore after the performance on Thursday. Either Reich run the ball too much(predictable gameplan) or he doesn't trust Brissett with the ball. Like everyone else has said, Brissett is a game manager. He checks down too much. He stares down WRs. He throws are so slow when receivers are open. Brissett slow indecisions/trigger is what give defenders time to cover back wide open WRs.  I could be wrong on all of this and maybe it just was a bad game. But, its very troubling sign for Brissett. 

 

If this season doesn't work out, I hope Luck comes back out of retirement. Maybe, just maybe, Tua or Joe Burrow fall to us in the draft and we can scoop either one of them up. Just my two cents. Back to ballin in basketball

 

Schwaaagg,

 

James Harden 

 

Maybe it was just a bad game? He's been bad for the last 6 weeks, averaging 167 yds, 0.8 TD and 0.45 INT per game. That's atrocious, you could almost accidentally throw for more than that blindfolded and guessing where your receivers might be. 

 

The team is winning despite Jacoby Brissett, the run game has been mostly solid, a tribute to the oline mainly imo, the defense is deep and makes enough plays, the signing of Justin Houston has turned out to be a great one, he's easily been our best defensive lineman. 

 

If they had a better QB, and a kicker, they'd be well in the lead for the division, and a legit postseason contender. We're close. 

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

If that's the case then we must trade for one.  No premier WRs will hit FA.  BB does it all the time.  

 

For a WR? Have you researched the 2020 class? 

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40 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

There was also a lot of hard questions on the phone conference yesterday if you want to listen to it. One thing I find interesting about Reich is all these analytics and how much of a numbers guy he is. Sometimes I think it hurts his play calling. Sometimes you just need to go for it and go with your gut and forget about numbers.  He gets to wrapped up in having to run or pass to many times and chunk numbers ect. Just let the game unfold like it’s supposed to. This is where Kevin Bowen was getting when he thinks frank has got a little to much in JB head.

Thanks Chloe. Got a link?

 

Yes, Reich is a big stats/analytics guy, as is Ballard. I find it hilarious that many who worship at their alters are also the ones saying stats don't matter. While they're not everything, they do absolutely matter and help. 

 

I'm not sure the analytics are the culprit for last week. The basic stats would have told him to pass more going into the game. Now I might agree with analytics getting in the way during the course of the game, but not in the creation of the game plan.

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6 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IDK lol. TN has a decent pass D. 

If we don't pass against one of the worst, not sure we'll pass vs a top 10ish.

Last week's game plan totally confused the sheet out of me.

I am puzzled by Thursday as well. I thought we would throw more than we did. This whole season has been unpredictable. 

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Thanks Chloe. Got a link?

 

Yes, Reich is a big stats/analytics guy, as is Ballard. I find it hilarious that many who worship at their alters are also the ones saying stats don't matter. While they're not everything, they do absolutely matter and help. 

 

I'm not sure the analytics are the culprit for last week. The basic stats would have told him to pass more going into the game. Now I might agree with analytics getting in the way during the course of the game, but not in the creation of the game plan.

It’s in the colts AP or on iTunes.

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I do think he intended to pass more against the Texans. I think they were unprepared for what the Texans did. They were not expecting that zone. That was probably the first game I think Jacoby actually looked confused. It reminded me of the game Darnold had against the patriots where he said he was seeing ghosts. Let’s not forget maybe those two new corners the Texans got are actually going to be pretty good. I thought Hardgreaves had a pretty good game. 

 

What I want to see from Jacoby is if he sees that kind of defense again does he  learn from it. That will tell me if he is growing as a QB.

 

Reich needs to worry less about running the D ball and worry about winning the game. Doesn’t matter how you win. I remember a lot of posters in the off season liking how much he was worrying about the run. They were right.

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22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Thanks, i'll try to be unbiased.

We all have our biases, and while we are on the other sides of some topics, you've always been pretty darn fair. Can't ask for more.

 

22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

True, he was, at least before the knee...

One could almost say he's better under back yard conditions lol. 

 

22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Which raises more questions-

Did the WR's and QB 'see' the same cover leverage by their respective DB's and read route adjustments correctly.

 

Who is target #1 each play; and if that guy is covered or doubled consistently, shouldn't the QB look to target #2 earlier in the play than they typically would? Etc...

Yup, we don't no what the play is in terms of who is the 1st progression, etc.. We can typically make a good guess based on where he looks first. One of the digs on JB going back college is he struggles reading Ds, so that complicates things when trying to grade things.

 

Kind of on the same topic, a buddy of mine who is kind of a guru (heavy FB resume), said that Kelly (C) and JB are often not on the same page. Given Kelly's history, not to mention Reich and Ballards heavy praise (said he was the best C in the NFL), leads me to believe JB is not seeing what Kelly is.

 

22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

I'll look at them, but I'm not a scout and would likely not call some of those subjective assessments correctly.  Many/most fans cant. We have a few I hear I'd give credence to, though.

You're much better than most, so no need to be humble :-). I'm decent at identifying routes, but not great at most of the rest. 

 

22 minutes ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

:)  If I can't do the work {fairly?} well, I'll admit it and lessen my load. :lecture: Let others handle it.

 

Coaches film is still not posted yet. :(

Nah... the more you do, the better you'll get at it. 

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5 minutes ago, SouthernIndianaNDFan said:

 

Maybe it was just a bad game? He's been bad for the last 6 weeks, averaging 167 yds, 0.8 TD and 0.45 INT per game. That's atrocious, you could almost accidentally throw for more than that blindfolded and guessing where your receivers might be. 

 

The team is winning despite Jacoby Brissett, the run game has been mostly solid, a tribute to the oline mainly imo, the defense is deep and makes enough plays, the signing of Justin Houston has turned out to be a great one, he's easily been our best defensive lineman. 

 

If they had a better QB, and a kicker, they'd be well in the lead for the division, and a legit postseason contender. We're close. 

 

For a WR? Have you researched the 2020 class? 

Yes I have and there are some very good ones with "potential".  But all they have right now is potential.  I would rather trade for the proven WR who can contribute right away and make an immediate impact.  He can still draft one in the second round as well.  But so far Ballards success at WR hasn't been too impressive.  You know Cain, Fountain to name a few.  Campbell is another receiver with injury issues who can barely see the field when healthy.  The surest and quickest way to fix the WR issue is to go out and make a deal for one.  I think the time has come this offseason for Ballard to fix a big hole at WR with a trade.  I bet he could acquire a good one that will fit our offense. 

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19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am puzzled by Thursday as well. I thought we would throw more than we did. This whole season has been unpredictable. 

I thought the season was pretty predictable aside from LAC and this last Houston game. It was hard predicting game 1 / LAC for obvious reasons, but most of the others fairly predictable. Houston was the first WTH is going on moment. 

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1 minute ago, richard pallo said:

Yes I have and there are some very good ones with "potential".  But all they have right now is potential.  I would rather trade for the proven WR who can contribute right away and make an immediate impact.  He can still draft one in the second round as well.  But so far Ballards success at WR hasn't been too impressive.  You know Cain, Fountain to name a few.  Campbell is another receiver with injury issues who can barely see the field when healthy.  The surest and quickest way to fix the WR issue is to go out and make a deal for one.  I think the time has come this offseason for Ballard to fix a big hole at WR with a trade.  I bet he could acquire a good one that will fit our offense. 

 

I'm not against it, it needs to be squared away one way or the other, maybe both ways. 

 

I'm not even close to ready to write off Parris Campbell, I think he's gonna be a really good player for us. 

 

Guys like Jeudy, Lamb, Higgins, Ruggs, and Reagor are gonna be the DK Metcalfs, Terry Mclaurins, and Deebo Samuel's of next year. 

 

I don't fault Ballard for missing on late round WRs, those dudes rarely ever pan out. They lasted for a reason. 

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15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I do think he intended to pass more against the Texans. I think they were unprepared for what the Texans did. They were not expecting that zone. That was probably the first game I think Jacoby actually looked confused. It reminded me of the game Darnold had against the patriots where he said he was seeing ghosts. Let’s not forget maybe those two new corners the Texans got are actually going to be pretty good. I thought Hardgreaves had a pretty good game. 

 

What I want to see from Jacoby is if he sees that kind of defense again does he  learn from it. That will tell me if he is growing as a QB.

 

Reich needs to worry less about running the D ball and worry about winning the game. Doesn’t matter how you win. I remember a lot of posters in the off season liking how much he was worrying about the run. They were right.

If so, that's pretty bad on Reich in terms of preparations. He should have expected Houston to do something different given our success last game. I'm not saying he should have been the Amazing Kresken, but to simply not being to make a man to zone adjustment is pretty weak sauce. Houston's DB talent level stinks regardless of zone or man. 

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