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Reich says Brissett will start, Adam Vinatieri will be the kicker moving forward

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1 hour ago, PrincetonTiger said:

So true

   
  @EastStreet

     If the team replaced AV the team would also lose his leadership which could be worrisome 

 

Losing games is worse than losing leadership on special teams. I really love AV, he's one of my favorite Colts in the past 10 years... but...

 

Really, what leadership specifically does a K provide to the O and D. Is it that much in the first place. Probably not. How much impact does he have on weekly prep, locker room, etc for the lines and skill players.. How much leadership does a K provide to STs outside of the few guys in the K space? Aside from his success, and hard work honing his kicking craft, it's probably limited to cheer leading. 

 

And outside of the leadership question, how does the O feel when they score a TD, and we miss what should be an automatic XP. How does the D feel when he misses a FG and field position is worsened. Those situations are amplified when they are the difference in several games now. Not saying that prohibits someone from being a leader, but typically leaders are leaders because of both performance and work habits.

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1 hour ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

 

I think what's going on is that the organization took a good hard look at the team and decided that this wasn't the year. 

 

If they felt this was a prime contending season they probably wouldn't stick with AV as it is, if they think we're more or less just playing out the string this year, you might as well let him finish with the team.

 

We had a good chance this year, but ran into some nasty injuries and I honestly think we are just playing out the string now.  At least unless Brissett might have other ideas and begin to inject some life back into the team.

 

Remember that there was a very strong sense at the beginning of the season that this was an evaluation year.  I think that's still true, at least in the executive suite.  Brissett pulled together some games and had us outperforming for awhile, and that is a very good sign going forward,, but I think Ballard had made the decision that a regression to the mean was likely no matter what he did, and kept his powder dry for the offseason.  And after watching the last 2 weeks of football I can't say he was wrong.

This is really a dumb comment. Imagine how much that effects players not only this year but next year if that is what they thought. 

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24 minutes ago, CoachSmok3 said:

 

I do think this is a fair/valid question...

 

Cheers!

 

The leadership role is critical, without question. But points left on the field, and by now MANY points...

 

Where's the line?

 

Good question. I don't have the answer 

Personally, I believe all that really matters from the kicker, is him doing his job of making the kicks.

If he can't get that done...

then perhaps, they could offer him some kind  of position as assistant coach like they did with Robert Mathis? But you can't expect, that if our kicker continues to struggle, to be retained for his locker room qualities.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

 

Losing games is worse than losing leadership on special teams. I really love AV, he's one of my favorite Colts in the past 10 years... but...

 

Really, what leadership specifically does a K provide to the O and D. Is it that much in the first place. Probably not. How much impact does he have on weekly prep, locker room, etc for the lines and skill players.. How much leadership does a K provide to STs outside of the few guys in the K space? Aside from his success, and hard work honing his kicking craft, it's probably limited to cheer leading. 

 

And outside of the leadership question, how does the O feel when they score a TD, and we miss what should be an automatic XP. How does the D feel when he misses a FG and field position is worsened. Those situations are amplified when they are the difference in several games now. Not saying that prohibits someone from being a leader, but typically leaders are leaders because of both performance and work habits.

 When you have a young team a lot 

 

    There are lot leaders in pro sports who were not at the top of their game

 

       See David Ross

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I am still going by the mantra this team has played so bad the last couple of weeks that they are viewing him as only a tiny issue and are hoping the team can pick up the pace and it won’t come down to AV in games. They know the locker room and no doubt they have asked the leaders of this team what they think. If this was any other kicker I think it would upset the locker room if it was costing them games. If the team was playing perfect every game and not making mistakes I can imagine he would be gong.

 

Something might even come out after the season where this all makes sense. 

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7 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Personally, I believe all that really matters from the kicker, is him doing his job of making the kicks.

If he can't get that done...

then perhaps, they could offer him some kind  of position as assistant coach like they did with Robert Mathis? But you can't expect, that if our kicker continues to struggle, to be retained for his locker room qualities.

  That would be hard to do mid season before 

      

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One more thing. I think this team has good enough leaders if they were hearing how upset they were that AV was costing them games I think they would go to the coach and talk about it. Remember Reich says he has players in all the time just to talk about different things.

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am still going by the mantra this team has played so bad the last couple of weeks that they are viewing him as only a tiny issue and are hoping the team can pick up the pace and it won’t come down to AV in games. They know the locker room and no doubt they have asked the leaders of this team what they think. If this was any other kicker I think it would upset the locker room if it was costing them games. If the team was playing perfect every game and not making mistakes I can imagine he would be gong.

 

Something might even come out after the season where this all makes sense. 

The leadership I was talking about

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5 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

 When you have a young team a lot 

 

    There are lot leaders in pro sports who were not at the top of their game

 

       See David Ross

We can agree to disagree. I don't think a K has the impact you think, especially when that kicker is not performing.

 

We've been a young team since 17. We have plenty of veteran leadership at key positions. AC on the OL, Mack is no longer a newbie and a vet in terms of RB age. TY is vet. Ebron and Doyle are vets. Houston a leader on the front 7. Desir in the DBs. 

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13 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am still going by the mantra this team has played so bad the last couple of weeks that they are viewing him as only a tiny issue and are hoping the team can pick up the pace and it won’t come down to AV in games. They know the locker room and no doubt they have asked the leaders of this team what they think. If this was any other kicker I think it would upset the locker room if it was costing them games. If the team was playing perfect every game and not making mistakes I can imagine he would be gong.

 

Something might even come out after the season where this all makes sense. 

It's pretty obvious that the considered moving on twice now with trying out kickers. They're just not happy with the candidates. 

 

Regardless of what the team wants, the coaches and FO are responsible for the tough decisions. If their input was the only thing that mattered, they wouldn't have worked out others.

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7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

We can agree to disagree. I don't think a K has the impact you think, especially when that kicker is not performing.

 

We've been a young team since 17. We have plenty of veteran leadership at key positions. AC on the OL, Mack is no longer a newbie and a vet in terms of RB age. TY is vet. Ebron and Doyle are vets. Houston a leader on the front 7. Desir in the DBs. 

  Being a vet or star doesn’t make you a leader
      I grew up with, coached and/or taught great athletes who were not great leaders

      I also grew up with, coached and/or taught great leaders who were not great athletes

   If AV is not a leader why is he a captain 

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's pretty obvious that the considered moving on twice now with trying out kickers. They're just not happy with the candidates. 

 

Regardless of what the team wants, the coaches and FO are responsible for the tough decisions. If their input was the only thing that mattered, they wouldn't have worked out others.

The team routinely has tryouts but we only find about the big ones

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4 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

  Being a vet or star doesn’t make you a leader
      I grew up with, coached and/or taught great athletes who were not great leaders

      I also grew up with, coached and/or taught great leaders who were not great athletes

   If AV is not a leader why is he a captain 

First, I did not say he wasn't a leader. My point is level of impact. And... If you have coached football, you know STs captains typically have much less impact to the team than the others. You also know that Cs can often be the product of popularity contests. And every team has a C from STs. Who else are they going to pick given AV's career.

 

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12 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

The team routinely has tryouts but we only find about the big ones

giphy.gif

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

First, I did not say he wasn't a leader. My point is level of impact. And... If you have coached football, you know STs captains typically have much less impact to the team than the others. You also know that Cs can often be the product of popularity contests. And every team has a C from STs. Who else are they going to pick given AV's career.

 

at most levels captains are ultimately picked by the HC or coaches

   Some teams have different captains each week

    At most levels teams do not specify captains by position group

 

    You last sentences answered the point about why he is still here

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53 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Personally, I believe all that really matters from the kicker, is him doing his job of making the kicks.

If he can't get that done...

then perhaps, they could offer him some kind  of position as assistant coach like they did with Robert Mathis? But you can't expect, that if our kicker continues to struggle, to be retained for his locker room qualities.

 

I think that's a very reasonable stance. Thank you for your input. 

 

My only hesitation on pulling that trigging tho is timing. And I get the counter points. But mid season makes it way more difficult than it would have 3 months ago

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Losing games is worse than losing leadership on special teams. I really love AV, he's one of my favorite Colts in the past 10 years... but...

 

Really, what leadership specifically does a K provide to the O and D. Is it that much in the first place. Probably not. How much impact does he have on weekly prep, locker room, etc for the lines and skill players.. How much leadership does a K provide to STs outside of the few guys in the K space? Aside from his success, and hard work honing his kicking craft, it's probably limited to cheer leading. 

 

And outside of the leadership question, how does the O feel when they score a TD, and we miss what should be an automatic XP. How does the D feel when he misses a FG and field position is worsened. Those situations are amplified when they are the difference in several games now. Not saying that prohibits someone from being a leader, but typically leaders are leaders because of both performance and work habits.

 

Well put. Valid position you've supported. 

 

It doesn't answer the question, but you have throughly detailed what the question is 

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10 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

at most levels captains are ultimately picked by the HC or coaches

   Some teams have different captains each week

    At most levels teams do not specify captains by position group

 

    You last sentences answered the point about why he is still here

Many teams at all levels let the players vote. Very few NFL teams have weekly captains. Denver and Baltimore are the only teams I can remember that do. I actually love the weekly model though. And I also prefer coaches picking Cs, but that doesn't happen much in the NFL these days.

 

Your last sentence proves my point. 

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1 minute ago, CoachSmok3 said:

 

Well put. Valid position you've supported. 

 

It doesn't answer the question, but you have throughly detailed what the question is 

Pretty obvious to me they looked, didn't find an obvious upgrade, and are rolling with the "known" as opposed to rolling the dice with the unknown. Doesn't have as much to do with "C", or leadership, than simply the alternatives aren't great.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Many teams at all levels let the players vote. Very few NFL teams have weekly captains. Denver and Baltimore are the only teams I can remember that do. I actually love the weekly model though. And I also prefer coaches picking Cs, but that doesn't happen much in the NFL these days.

 

Your last sentence proves my point. 

     Thank you for playing telephone because you restated my exact post

      move on lauren GIF by The Hills

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The decision to hang on to Vinny has Jim's fingerprints all over it.  His loyalty to the players is what makes him, IMO the best owner in the NFL.   This idea of him not cutting him, fearing the Pat's will scoop him up, is complete nonsense, but I think in this case his loyalty has had a negative impact on the team as a whole.

 

What really bothers me is the fact that Vinny has put Jim in this position.

His skill has diminished to the point that we are losing games because we have the worst kicker in the league.  I've read all the excuses, laces out, bad snap's, bad hold's, on and on.

 

I always thought Vinny as a stand up guy, but to be honest, I've lost respect for him, he is actually holding this team hostage, and using Jim's loyalty to hang on to a career, that could have been special, but will turn into just another player who's ego forced him to play past his ability.  GO COLTS.

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2 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

The decision to hang on to Vinny has Jim's fingerprints all over it.  His loyalty to the players is what makes him, IMO the best owner in the NFL.   This idea of him not cutting him, fearing the Pat's will scoop him up, is complete nonsense, but I think in this case his loyalty has had a negative impact on the team as a whole.

 

What really bothers me is the fact that Vinny has put Jim in this position.

His skill has diminished to the point that we are losing games because we have the worst kicker in the league.  I've read all the excuses, laces out, bad snap's, bad hold's, on and on.

 

I always thought Vinny as a stand up guy, but to be honest, I've lost respect for him, he is actually holding this team hostage, and using Jim's loyalty to hang on to a career, that could have been special, but will turn into just another player who's ego forced him to play past his ability.  GO COLTS.

Every Athlete struggles with giving a sport up

    The reason for adult rec. sport leagues

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26 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

The decision to hang on to Vinny has Jim's fingerprints all over it.  His loyalty to the players is what makes him, IMO the best owner in the NFL.   This idea of him not cutting him, fearing the Pat's will scoop him up, is complete nonsense, but I think in this case his loyalty has had a negative impact on the team as a whole.

 

What really bothers me is the fact that Vinny has put Jim in this position.

His skill has diminished to the point that we are losing games because we have the worst kicker in the league.  I've read all the excuses, laces out, bad snap's, bad hold's, on and on.

 

I always thought Vinny as a stand up guy, but to be honest, I've lost respect for him, he is actually holding this team hostage, and using Jim's loyalty to hang on to a career, that could have been special, but will turn into just another player who's ego forced him to play past his ability.  GO COLTS.

Jim Irsay cut Peyton Manning.  If he thinks it’s best for the team he would let a player be cut.  He did it with Marvin too.  He also let guys like Freeney, Saturday, Edge, and Wayne walk rather than keep them out of loyalty.  

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2 minutes ago, King Colt said:

He turns 47 next month. Is he the best option for a team hanging by the thread to get a playoff spot?

They clearly  don't  mind losing. 

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15 minutes ago, King Colt said:

He turns 47 next month. Is he the best option for a team hanging by the thread to get a playoff spot?

At this point they do.  Do I agree with it?  No, but I also didn’t see those kickers working out yesterday and I also don’t get a vote.

 

My point is that if Jim Irsay will cut Peyton Manning and let several other star players leave because it was best for the team the notion that he is hanging on to Adam to be loyal likely isn’t true, it doesn’t match how he has allowed this team to be run to this point.

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1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

Jim Irsay cut Peyton Manning.  If he thinks it’s best for the team he would let a player be cut.  He did it with Marvin too.  He also let guys like Freeney, Saturday, Edge, and Wayne walk rather than keep them out of loyalty.  

He allowed Ken Dilger to be cut who was an Indiana guy after he said he was retiring once his contract ran its course(2 years left)

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11 hours ago, GoatBeard said:

Amen. I can't believe how whiny and unappreciative our fanbase is, to be brutally honest. 

 

Without our kicking problems and an unfortunate injury to our starting QB, we could very well be 8-1. And all we hear is complaining. 

 

 

To be fair, most of the discussion has been about our kicking problems.  

Had Adam been kicking at the average league level, the Colts would have 1-2 more wins.

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Moving forward with Vinny according to Reich? Stupid decision on Reich's part and it's going to bite him in the rear and it's indicative of his play calling lately.  Other teams are figuring out his Vanilla approach and decision making ability....Frustrating!!!:dunno:

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don't matter much. AV will be gone next season. Colts won't make playoffs this year,and only win a couple more games this season. pass defense just awful. So disappointing again,this season. In any case hopefully this season will help with some higher up picks next draft.

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8 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Jim Irsay cut Peyton Manning.  If he thinks it’s best for the team he would let a player be cut.  He did it with Marvin too.  He also let guys like Freeney, Saturday, Edge, and Wayne walk rather than keep them out of loyalty.  

 

Were any of those let go mid season?

 

Not bringing AV back next year seems very reasonable, and in line with the way the Colts operate.

 

I can also see the question asked of the team-

 

Do you want to have a brand new no name kicker replacing a HOF kicker come in and possibly miss these important kicks the rest of the season, or keep our HOF kicker... who also might miss important kicks but has given the team everything throughout his career and also still made some of the most clutch kicks ever; and might have one or two left in the bag?

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18 hours ago, Mitch Connors said:

Define fan. 

 

Sounds like this debate is divided into fans of the Colts team vs fans of players. Most that want Vinny gone want to replace a failing player in favor of the Colts team. If thats not you, fine, but that doesnt make other fans pathetic.

So if I have a great family but Uncle Oliver is struggling, I should quit inviting him to family functions for the better of the family? Or we can have his back, believe in him and encourage him. This team claims to be the tightest locker room in the NFL.

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23 minutes ago, conklincolt said:

don't matter much. AV will be gone next season. Colts won't make playoffs this year,and only win a couple more games this season. pass defense just awful. So disappointing again,this season. In any case hopefully this season will help with some higher up picks next draft.

Colts are in the playoff hunt this season.   They are literally 1 game out of having the division lead.   Do you always give up so soon?  

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10 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This team is playing so bad they don’t want to make AV the scape goat.

They almost beat a hot Steelers team in Pitt with the third string QB playing well above his average, but Adam. The D gave up 16 points last week? Adam owns some blame there too. He makes that extra point? They're down 3. They were in field goal position at the end of the game, no? The team isn't playing "so bad" that either loss was impossible to avoid, yet.. There's room for criticism, but both were winnable despite the injuries and stretches of mediocre play. If I'm Adam, I'm probably in my own head about all of this and given that he's old and possibly hurt, why is this going to get better?

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Just now, LockeDown said:

So if I have a great family but Uncle Oliver is struggling, I should quit inviting him to family functions for the better of the family? Or we can have his back, believe in him and encourage him. This team claims to be the tightest locker room in the NFL.

Kind of stretching it there.

Maybe "Uncle Oliver" has been molesting his nieces.   Do you still invite him?

 

Adam has been stinking it up most of the season.   It's not like the Colts didn't give him chances.  He's 70% on extra points.   Worst in the league my a bunch.  Getting rid of him isn't an insane idea.   Neither is keeping him.

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11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is really a dumb comment. Imagine how much that effects players not only this year but next year if that is what they thought. 

But it is what they thought.  Or at least it's how they acted.  And after a certain point actions matter more. 

 

I'm sure they'll pay lip service to the idea of continuing to compete, because you're right, blatantly throwing the season would be terrible for morale, but you don't get very far in trying to understand what a team is thinking by paying attention to what they say to the media.  Actions speak way, way louder.

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AV should’ve been let go. He can’t be trusted on chip shot FGs or XPs. What value does he provide to this team if he can’t get his points? To be frank, he’s cost us too many wins and losing to the damn Dolphins was damning. 

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