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Colts rebuild finish is still a couple of years away


Chloe6124

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Geez, reading the comments on this topic we are never going to contend again. Must be why for 21 years when we had Peyton and Andrew, 2 of the best qbs to ever play the game it got us a grand total of 2 sb appearences. Always rebuilding a roster that is 2-3 years away!!!! Get a grip people, Bill Parcels, a two time sb winning coach) once said "every team has 5-8 top players the rest of the roster is interchangeable throughout the league with everyother team" That quote must be why the same small hand full of teams are always the top contenders every year. Because they can put anyone out on the field and win. I'll use the steelers as an example. no running backs, qb, they have two offensive linemen that are nfl caliber(Decastro and Pouncey) the other 3 starters could not make this Colt team even as backups. The defense has 5 players. Rock ya sin is a better corner than any steeler. And yet there the steelers are, 5-4 ahead of the Colts. always contenders every year regardless of who's on the roster. Nobody ever says the steelers are "2-3 years away" even with that awful team they are fielding right now!

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9 hours ago, Two_pound said:

 

Geez, reading the comments on this topic we are never going to contend again. Must be why for 21 years when we had Peyton and Andrew, 2 of the best qbs to ever play the game it got us a grand total of 2 sb appearences. Always rebuilding a roster that is 2-3 years away!!!! Get a grip people, Bill Parcels, a two time sb winning coach) once said "every team has 5-8 top players the rest of the roster is interchangeable throughout the league with everyother team" That quote must be why the same small hand full of teams are always the top contenders every year. Because they can put anyone out on the field and win. I'll use the steelers as an example. no running backs, qb, they have two offensive linemen that are nfl caliber(Decastro and Pouncey) the other 3 starters could not make this Colt team even as backups. The defense has 5 players. Rock ya sin is a better corner than any steeler. And yet there the steelers are, 5-4 ahead of the Colts. always contenders every year regardless of who's on the roster. Nobody ever says the steelers are "2-3 years away" even with that awful team they are fielding right now!

Great post, several top teams never "rebuild" they just upgrade the roster each season anyway they can. draft is just one of them also trades and proven free agents, the better teams dont limit themselves just to the draft

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:41 AM, Pacergeek said:

If Ballard doesn't want to buy FA's, he must significantly improve his drafting. Look at all the WR's he passed on: Deebo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, and DK Metcalf (who looks like a future all pro). Drafting Paris Campbell shows that Ballard has a lot of work to do evaluating WR's. 

agree he cant afford to miss on any picks if he only upgrades talent with the draft and cheap free agents

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11 hours ago, Two_pound said:

 

Geez, reading the comments on this topic we are never going to contend again. Must be why for 21 years when we had Peyton and Andrew, 2 of the best qbs to ever play the game it got us a grand total of 2 sb appearences. Always rebuilding a roster that is 2-3 years away!!!! Get a grip people, Bill Parcels, a two time sb winning coach) once said "every team has 5-8 top players the rest of the roster is interchangeable throughout the league with everyother team" That quote must be why the same small hand full of teams are always the top contenders every year. Because they can put anyone out on the field and win. I'll use the steelers as an example. no running backs, qb, they have two offensive linemen that are nfl caliber(Decastro and Pouncey) the other 3 starters could not make this Colt team even as backups. The defense has 5 players. Rock ya sin is a better corner than any steeler. And yet there the steelers are, 5-4 ahead of the Colts. always contenders every year regardless of who's on the roster. Nobody ever says the steelers are "2-3 years away" even with that awful team they are fielding right now!

Good post, but the Steelers did bring in Fitzpatrick who plays CB at times.   He's probably better than any Colts defensive player outside of Leonard.   

I don't think the Colts play to their strengths as other successful teams do.   For example:

Hilton - The best offensive threat on the team.   Typical years he has a yards-per-catch well over 16.   This season it's 11.   

Hines is a great threat on short passes out of the backfield.  It doesn't seem like the team exploits that enough.  His rushing yards per attempt is 3.0 mostly because they keep running him up the middle.   Stop that Reich!

 

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9 hours ago, Myles said:

Good post, but the Steelers did bring in Fitzpatrick who plays CB at times.   He's probably better than any Colts defensive player outside of Leonard.   

I don't think the Colts play to their strengths as other successful teams do.   For example:

Hilton - The best offensive threat on the team.   Typical years he has a yards-per-catch well over 16.   This season it's 11.   

Hines is a great threat on short passes out of the backfield.  It doesn't seem like the team exploits that enough.  His rushing yards per attempt is 3.0 mostly because they keep running him up the middle.   Stop that Reich!

 

i agree hines could be a gamechanger with his yards after catch

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On 11/11/2019 at 11:53 PM, Indyfan4life said:

Honestly, you can’t say you don’t expect it. Losing to Miami, regardless of it being bad offense or kicking issues again. Winning solves everything. Losing brings out all the problems. 

Miami isn't as bad as what they are made out to be.  And Ryan Fitzpatrick has always been able to win games as long as he doesn't throw picks.

 

They traded some of their star players, so everybody laughed at them like they were tanking for Tua or some other college QB, and that became the narrative.

 

Its probably looking like the players they traded were actually worth far less than what they got for them.  The incremental difference in talent between them and who they have playing in place of them is not nearly as wide as the amount of talent they can draft with the extra picks.

 

Look at Cincy.  They have traded noone and they really stink.

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22 hours ago, Myles said:

Good post, but the Steelers did bring in Fitzpatrick who plays CB at times.   He's probably better than any Colts defensive player outside of Leonard.   

I don't think the Colts play to their strengths as other successful teams do.   For example:

Hilton - The best offensive threat on the team.   Typical years he has a yards-per-catch well over 16.   This season it's 11.   

Hines is a great threat on short passes out of the backfield.  It doesn't seem like the team exploits that enough.  His rushing yards per attempt is 3.0 mostly because they keep running him up the middle.   Stop that Reich!

 

Andy Reid would have a great time scheming up plays for Hines. It's crazy how underutilized he is here. 

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14 minutes ago, ManningGM said:

Andy Reid would have a great time scheming up plays for Hines. It's crazy how underutilized he is here. 

He was used more correctly when Luck was here to me.

The plays seemed to be schemed up better when he was here as well!

So far Frank hasn't been able to open things up as much with this group he has now.  Hopefully that changes. 

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4 hours ago, DougDew said:

Miami isn't as bad as what they are made out to be.  And Ryan Fitzpatrick has always been able to win games as long as he doesn't throw picks.

 

They traded some of their star players, so everybody laughed at them like they were tanking for Tua or some other college QB, and that became the narrative.

 

Its probably looking like the players they traded were actually worth far less than what they got for them.  The incremental difference in talent between them and who they have playing in place of them is not nearly as wide as the amount of talent they can draft with the extra picks.

 

Look at Cincy.  They have traded noone and they really stink.

Other than the Fitzpatrick trade, I think Miami is rebuilding the right way.   They can get their QB of the future and still have multiple 1st round picks and extras in other rounds.  

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43 minutes ago, Myles said:

Other than the Fitzpatrick trade, I think Miami is rebuilding the right way.   They can get their QB of the future and still have multiple 1st round picks and extras in other rounds.  

I think they have something like 5 picks in the first 2 rounds this spring and just as many in rounds 1 and 2 next year.  But I could be mistaken.

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Ballard tried something similar as the Dolphins but after a few years of Grigson drafting, the Colts didn't have anyone that that another team was willing to trade a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick.  Except a few cornerstone players that a GM would not want to trade while building a team.

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36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I think they have something like 5 picks in the first 2 rounds this spring and just as many in rounds 1 and 2 next year.  But I could be mistaken.

Yeah, that's enough to have a good team in a couple years.  They haven't done horrible with their picks in recent years.   

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23 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Ballard tried something similar as the Dolphins but after a few years of Grigson drafting, the Colts didn't have anyone that that another team was willing to trade a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick.  Except a few cornerstone players that a GM would not want to trade while building a team.

Agreed.  The only thing about the Dolphins analogy is that they traded players many thought would be their cornerstones.  I guess Ballard could've traded AC and TY for maybe 2 1sts each?  Could've replaced each player with 2 of the first round picks then had 2 more 1sts for elsewhere.

 

Ballard may have had more cornerstones to trade if Grigson was ever able to pick in the top 10, where MIA picked Tunsil and Minkah, IIRC.

 

Just think if he traded Luck for 3 or 4 picks and then Luck up and retired.  CB would look like a genius right now, LOL. 

 

 

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Andrew Luck retiring is throwing a wrench into the rebuild, but outside of that, I think it will be done after this next year.  The Colts have someone they can build around at each level.

 

RB - Mack

WR - Hilton

Oline - Nelson

Dline - Sheard

LB - Leonard/Walker

CB - Desir/Moore

Safety - Hooker.

 

Once you have a core group like that then it's just a matter of improving the other positions which is a constant thing in the NFL anyways.

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Just now, DougDew said:

Agreed.  The only thing about the Dolphins analogy is that they traded players many thought would be their cornerstones.  I guess Ballard could've traded AC and TY for maybe 2 1sts each?  Could've replaced each player with 2 of the first round picks then had 2 more 1sts for elsewhere.

I think that was the issue Tannehill was proving to not be a cornerstone, same with Tunsil.  Fitzpatrick may have been.

Just now, DougDew said:

 

Just think if he traded Luck for 3 or 4 picks and then Luck up and retires.  CB would look like a genius right now, LOL. 

 

 

No doubt.  And Miami would feel duped like the Colts did after trading for T. Richardson or signing Corey Simon.

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6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Andrew Luck retiring is throwing a wrench into the rebuild, but outside of that, I think it will be done after this next year.  The Colts have someone they can build around at each level.

 

RB - Mack

WR - Hilton

Oline - Nelson

Dline - Sheard

LB - Leonard/Walker

CB - Desir/Moore

Safety - Hooker.

 

Once you have a core group like that then it's just a matter of improving the other positions which is a constant thing in the NFL anyways.

Polian had the following talent using the following picks:

 

Manning: 1st overall

Harrison: 1st (by Tobin)

Glenn: 1st (by Tobin)

Wayne: 1st

James: 1st

Addai: 1st

Clark: 1st

Freeney: 1st

Marlin Jackson: 1st

Sanders: 2nd

Hayden: 2nd.

 

That's much better talent than the players you mention above, and we only won one SB during all of those years it took to assemble that 1st round talent.

 

Using that as a comparison, Ballard has a long way to go in terms of how many years it will take, not to mention being set back by having to replace his version of Glenn and Harrison soon. (AC and TY)

 

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2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Polian had the following talent using the following picks:

 

Manning: 1st overall

Harrison: 1st (by Tobin)

Glenn: 1st (by Tobin)

Wayne: 1st

James: 1st

Addai: 1st

Clark: 1st

Freeney: 1st

Marlin Jackson: 1st

Sanders: 2nd

Hayden: 2nd.

 

That's much better talent than the players you mention above, and we only won one SB during all of those years it took to assemble that 1st round talent.

 

Using that as a comparison, Ballard has a long way to go in terms of how many years it will take, not to mention being set back by having to replace his version of Glenn and Harrison soon. (AC and TY).

 

I don't know if you meant it but I do want to point out that Polian did not draft Harrison nor Glenn.

 

And if player talent was the only thing that led to SB wins then you may have more of a point.  Outside of that I also disagree with several of your assumptions.

 

I think AC is every bit as good as Glenn was, Mack is better than Addai, I like both Desir and Moore better than Hayden and I think they are both better overall corners than Jackson (although I think Jackson was a great zone corner, but their ability to play man or zone equally well puts them a step above).  Sanders' talent is undeniable but since he was off the field so much (even more so than Hooker), I can't really add him in there as talent to build around, (Bethea would have been a better example).

 

Lastly you are using 10 years of draft to compare talent level of a team after 2-1/2 years.

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41 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

 

I don't know if you meant it but I do want to point out that Polian did not draft Harrison nor Glenn.

 

Lastly you are using 10 years of draft to compare talent level of a team after 2-1/2 years.

I mentioned they were drafted by Tobin.  I'm not doing a GM comparison.  I'm trying to discuss how many years it takes.

 

Not only during our SB contending years, say 2004 to 2009, did we have 8 first round players, we also got 2 all pros in Mathis and Saturday as a 5th and UDFA.  It took 10 "1st round talent" guys to perennially contend.  

 

That may be excessive, but we are nowhere close to having that kind of roster.

 

Outside of Nelson and Leonard, every one who wont have to be replaced soon else is basically a JAG.  Maybe not Kelly.

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