Colts rebuild finish is still a couple of years away

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 That was looking pretty smart at 1-5.  So you have NO point.
 It was great that we shuffled the 0-line and it worked out so well.
 And Ebron was such a Hero.
 Loved all those sacks and forced fumbles by Leonard. And those 15 tackles on 15 completions on him in One game. haha! How many sacks & FF so far this season?
   I WAS Right on my estimate for last season. It was reasonable. Just glad to not to have to look at our last QB's old throwing motion. Even though his new one was just as robotic. At least it allowed him to more consistently get the ball down where it was always supposed to be. I am glad he finally listened to somebody New.

  Great job by Frank & Eb last season. 

Sorry didn't end that way bro so stop trying to take credit for an unfinished product! Your estimate was terrible and in fact you were one of the few who did that because everyone else knew it was stupid. Even at 1-5 hardly anyone here felt with Luck we'd only win 4-5 more games.  We knew better!

[jameszeigler834]

14 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We didn’t need a WR before the trade deadline. TY and Parris got hurt after the deadline and funchess is due back. 

Well sorry to say im not willing to rely on just Funchess to save our season.

[throwing BBZ]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

Sorry didn't end that way bro so stop trying to take credit for an unfinished product! Your estimate was terrible and in fact you were one of the few who did that because everyone else knew it was stupid. Even at 1-5 hardly anyone here felt with Luck we'd only win 4-5 more games.  We knew better!

 

 So hardly anyone thought we would go 5-5 when we were sitting at 1-5?
 You are so full __ ___!    It would be more truthful to believe otherwise.
  Not that i expected us to be 1-5. 
   Maybe i was thinking our QB wouldn't be ready, maybe it was the roster churn, maybe it was a new coaching staff. Things like that.
   Don't show your ignorance, it is unbecoming.
  

[Myles]

24 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 That was looking pretty smart at 1-5.  So you have NO point.
 It was great that we shuffled the 0-line and it worked out so well.
 And Ebron was such a Hero.
 Loved all those sacks and forced fumbles by Leonard. And those 15 tackles on 15 completions on him in One game. haha! How many sacks & FF so far this season?
   I WAS Right on my estimate for last season. It was reasonable. Just glad to not to have to look at our last QB's old throwing motion. Even though his new one was just as robotic. At least it allowed him to more consistently get the ball down where it was always supposed to be. I am glad he finally listened to somebody New.

  Great job by Frank & Eb last season. 

You were off by 4-5 games.   That is NOT "right".    If we get 4-5 games leeway, I can stick with my original (with Luck) projection of 11 wins and still be correct if we win 7 games.   Woo Hoo!

[Four2itus]

3 hours ago, Iforgotmyname said:

(I'm back, wait, who? The Fish.. maybe someone can help me get my old account back).. You're telling me that this rebuild that was undertook with the idea the Andrew Luck was the QB and now he's not is off schedule? This thing is perilously close to turning into the kind of perennial mediocrity that's hard to get out of.

Welcome back Fish!

[throwing BBZ]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

You were off by 4-5 games.   That is NOT "right".    If we get 4-5 games leeway, I can stick with my original (with Luck) projection of 11 wins and still be correct if we win 7 games.   Woo Hoo!

 

  Your prediction was mindless blather based on unrealistic expectations.
Woot! Woot! See how easy that is. 

[Ehrman.Dutton.Cook.Barnes]

Rebuilding in the era of free agency is never finished.

[Myles]

17 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Your prediction was mindless blather based on unrealistic expectations.
Woot! Woot! See how easy that is. 

Your prediction was 5 games off.    Just admit you were wrong.   

[Blueblood23]

51 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We didn’t need a WR before the trade deadline. TY and Parris got hurt after the deadline and funchess is due back. 

Campbell has done very little before the trade deadline. This roster is lacking skilled offensive players. Many moves need to be made not just cutting Cain one day and bringing him back two days later. 

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

Campbell has done very little before the trade deadline. This roster is lacking skilled offensive players. Many moves need to be made not just cutting Cain one day and bringing him back two days later. 

I think we'll be OK once Hilton and Funchess are back.  Pascal will be a pretty solid #3.   

[zibby43]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I don't know that everyone felt that way. Plenty of people were talking about how we were two kicks away from being 7-1 and how we could have a chance of beating the Patriots in the playoffs.

 

Haha this is true.  I was trying to give folks the benefit of the doubt. 

[throwing BBZ]

16 minutes ago, Myles said:

Your prediction was 5 games off.    Just admit you were wrong.   

 

  So anyone that guessed 10 wins was also wrong. 9 wins? Haha!

  What a stupid argument predicting how an NFL season will actually turn out.
 It is ALWAYS no better than a guess.
  Well, there i am, right again.
 

 
  

[Blueblood23]

24 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think we'll be OK once Hilton and Funchess are back.  Pascal will be a pretty solid #3.   

I would agree being OK, still believe roster needs more fire power than Cain. 

[Myles]

13 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  So anyone that guessed 10 wins was also wrong. 9 wins? Haha!

  What a stupid argument predicting how an NFL season will actually turn out.
 It is ALWAYS no better than a guess.
  Well, there i am, right again.
 

 
  

Nope.   10 wins was right on the nose.  9 wins was in the ballpark.   5 wins wasn't even close.   

If you can't handle being wrong, don't make the prediction.   

It is better than a guess for most people.   Not you.

Most make an educated guess.   The Colts won 11 games 3 of the years Luck started.  Ballards drat addressed the O-line, so 9-11 wins wasn't just a pick out of thin air.   Your pick of 5 wins was though.   Luck never lost less than 8 games.  

[Imgrandojji]

1 minute ago, Blueblood23 said:

I would agree being OK, still believe roster needs more fire power than Cain. 

yep but I don't think we're getting it this year.

 

I expect Ballard to look at mid tier pieces in the offseason, at LB, DE and WR, to try to toughen our pass game and run D.

 

We aren't quite there this year, but we're also not far from it.  We still have the ability to sneak into the playoffs if we can turn it around and go 4-3 or so in the last 7 games.  Very doable with Brissett in there.  so the whole thing hinges on him getting healthy.

[Blueblood23]

4 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

yep but I don't think we're getting it this year.

 

I expect Ballard to look at mid tier pieces in the offseason, at LB, DE and WR, to try to toughen our pass game and run D.

 

We aren't quite there this year, but we're also not far from it.  We still have the ability to sneak into the playoffs if we can turn it around and go 4-3 or so in the last 7 games.  Very doable with Brissett in there.  so the whole thing hinges on him getting healthy.

I agree as the team is close. Disappointed that Ballard did very little after Luck retired. I believe he could have improved the team a lot by trading and spending very little in the big picture. 

[zibby43]

6 hours ago, krunk said:

Is this not the same team that everybody thought was primed for the Super Bowl in the offseason?  The same team that most of the pundits said had a very good roster?  Now because the offense is sluggish we are a couple years away competition and personnel wise?  Again nobody was saying we were years away when the wins were coming in.  Defense is getting better and better with each game.  It always amazes me where peoples minds go after a loss or more than 1 loss. I think Reich is competent enough to sit down and honestly evaluate the offense, make the necessary adjustments to get things moving.  It doesn't take years to make adjustments.  The other factor is the slew of injuries which unfortunately have kind of derailed things temporarily.  I really don't care anything about the study because I've seen the Colts beat and hang with high flying offenses and I've seen then win over top defensive teams consistently.  That's really all the evidence you need to know we aren't years away.   I haven't seen anybody in the AFC that the Colts won't give a problem to.  That doesn't change because of a fluke loss.  A loss that ocurred with a backup QB in and backup WR at pretty much every spot.  And we gifted them that game with our own foolish turnovers.   The Colts are not years away. We have some things challenging us right now, but I don't think its because Ballards not finished with the rebuild and all these other theories.  Most of it is injuries and some young guys needing to grow up. 

 

Pundits' opinions change with the wind.  What they think of the roster means very little to me.  The roster still had holes because the depth isn't there.  With Hilton and Funchess down, the WR corps is in shambles.

 

When Turay went down, the Colts suddenly had 0 quick-twitch, "bendy" edge rushers.

 

The Super Bowl aspirations were largely tied to Luck's inclusion in the roster, after he just came off the best year of his entire career. 

 

Anyway, I think we're too far apart to find any common ground (which is fine).  Data from a 10-year sample size in this area is pretty decent. 

 

It's not just the 1 loss, either, that are eliciting these responses.

 

After losing to the Chargers, Raiders, barely skating by the Broncos, and losing to the Dolphins, can you seriously say that the Colts' roster is comparable to teams like:

 

Baltimore?

San Francisco?

New England?

Packers?

Saints?

 

The Colts still have major holes to fill at WR, DL, DE, CB, and most importantly, QB. 

 

You are of a vastly different opinion, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

 

 

[CanuckColt]

20 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

Start with guys who dominate up front like Clowney who many here said wants to much or isn’t worth a lot of money

That's "too much" ....same disease as Chloe.

 

[coltsva]

Rebuilding is nothing more than a word that is used to excuse losing. The Colts are not rebuilding, they are building, and teams are allowed to contend and win while they are building.

They did it last year and they are doing it again this year.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I think there are still legitimate questions about the roster. We're projecting a lot of young guys to be good players, and while I'm bullish on a lot of them, we don't really know what they'll be. I'm glad they're playing, but we need to give it time to figure out what we actually have in guys like Okereke, Willis, is Turay any good, etc. 

Agree to an extent, but I think part of the high reliance on rookie'/young play is simply a reflection of how bad the roster was in several places. Totally speaking on measurements (size, strength, speed, or lack of), some have the measurements ceiling, some don't. I think Rock has the best ceiling. I think Okereke lacks lower body size and strength to be a three down guy. I love what Willis has done, and while he has a great nose for the play (shallow/intermediate), not sure he has the speed/burst for some elements. Like you said, we don't really know yet.

[runthepost]

Colts are good enough to compete with anyone but bad enough to lose to anyone.

 

Honestly this team is in tier 3 of the NFL which is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to win the conference.
When healthy these are the tiers.

Tier 1: New England, San Fran, Seattle, Green Bay, Baltimore, New Orleans is here because the Falcons played the game of their lives plus injuries on New Orleans line that game.

 

Tier 2: Minnesota, Kansas City, Houston

 

Tier3: Colts, Cowboys, Eagles, Rams, Bills, Panthers, Steelers.

[Dingus McGirt]

Watched Seattle and San Fran.  Thought our Colts looked light years behind.  Made me a bit sad.  

[Superman]

34 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Agree to an extent, but I think part of the high reliance on rookie'/young play is simply a reflection of how bad the roster was in several places. Totally speaking on measurements (size, strength, speed, or lack of), some have the measurements ceiling, some don't. I think Rock has the best ceiling. I think Okereke lacks lower body size and strength to be a three down guy. I love what Willis has done, and while he has a great nose for the play (shallow/intermediate), not sure he has the speed/burst for some elements. Like you said, we don't really know yet.

 

For sure, some of these guys wouldn't be playing on a better team, but they aren't playing poorly for the most part. Ironically, Rock has probably been the worst rookie.

 

I don't agree on Okereke, I think he has the tools. Willis isn't a deep middle guy, but in the box he has the instincts and change of direction to do a good job, and he seems better in space so far than I remember from his Michigan State tape.

[Two_pound]

I certainly don't agree we look light years behind seattle and san fran. I watched that game last night. Both offensive lines really suck. Al Woods had a sack, remember him? I don't think another team in the league has a player as good as Darious Leonard. He is everywhere. The Colts need to be more aggressive on defense. The talent and speed is there.

[Fisticuffs111]

34 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

For sure, some of these guys wouldn't be playing on a better team, but they aren't playing poorly for the most part. Ironically, Rock has probably been the worst rookie.

 

I don't agree on Okereke, I think he has the tools. Willis isn't a deep middle guy, but in the box he has the instincts and change of direction to do a good job, and he seems better in space so far than I remember from his Michigan State tape.

 

Yeah, I’ve been very pleasantly surprised by Willis. Seems to make solid plays most weeks, looked good against Miami. Good closing speed, good instincts. 

 

Also, I know it usually takes longer for CB’s to adjust and it’s way too early to know what we have in him, but I’m in wait and see mode with Rock. Not that I don’t think he can become a capable starter, which I guess is all we can ask for, just won’t be surprised if he doesn’t hit those sky high expectations some had for him. I liked what he’s shown from a tackling standpoint though. Happy that Tell has looked pretty good though, in the small sample size we’ve seen.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

For sure, some of these guys wouldn't be playing on a better team, but they aren't playing poorly for the most part. Ironically, Rock has probably been the worst rookie.

 

I don't agree on Okereke, I think he has the tools. Willis isn't a deep middle guy, but in the box he has the instincts and change of direction to do a good job, and he seems better in space so far than I remember from his Michigan State tape.

Agree 100% on Willis from a box perspective. He'll be very good if that's where they focus him. On Okereke, he gets swallowed up easily vs the run. I just don't see that improving a lot with his build. He came from one of the best strength programs in D1, so I just think he's topped out in that space as well. I think that's why they're trying him out in the SAM space.

 

I think Rock will be fine. Most of his errors are "rookie" type errors you can expect being tossed into the deep end. Physically he's fine. I think the mental part will catch up.

[AZColt11]

I've been touting 2020 as "the year" for a while now.  I might be a year too early, but in watching the league this year one thing has struck me:  there aren't any truly "elite" teams out there.  Yes some are better than others, but IMHO the difference between the top and the bottom isn't as great as it used to be.  The Colts are clearly among the average teams, so I think with another shrewd draft (and that Skins round 2 pick sure looks good!) and a couple of impact FA's, I think this team can contend next year.  And Mr. Brady isn't going to be around much longer either.

[EastStreet]

42 minutes ago, AZColt11 said:

I've been touting 2020 as "the year" for a while now.  I might be a year too early, but in watching the league this year one thing has struck me:  there aren't any truly "elite" teams out there.  Yes some are better than others, but IMHO the difference between the top and the bottom isn't as great as it used to be.  The Colts are clearly among the average teams, so I think with another shrewd draft (and that Skins round 2 pick sure looks good!) and a couple of impact FA's, I think this team can contend next year.  And Mr. Brady isn't going to be around much longer either.

We're 22nd in total O (25th passing, 10th rushing), 10th in total D (9th passing, 15th rushing). 

 

It's pretty clear what needs to improve on both sides of the ball.

 

We've only played one team in the top 1/4 of the league (W/L), so our ranks may be a little inflated.

[runthepost]

1 hour ago, Two_pound said:

I certainly don't agree we look light years behind seattle and san fran. I watched that game last night. Both offensive lines really suck. Al Woods had a sack, remember him? I don't think another team in the league has a player as good as Darious Leonard. He is everywhere. The Colts need to be more aggressive on defense. The talent and speed is there.

Umm there’s about 15 to 20 defensive players better than Darius. Yes he’s good but he’s been lighten up at times this year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, runthepost said:

Umm there’s about 15 to 20 defensive players better than Darius. Yes he’s good but he’s been lighten up at times this year.

I think that concussion that Leonard had threw him off his game a little. He played pretty good against Miami and looks healthy again. Leonard isn't great but he is good IMO. When he plays our defense is usually better. I could even make an argument he is our best defensive player, Justin Houston is the only other guy that may be better and he may be a Hall of Famer. 

[runthepost]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think that concussion that Leonard had threw him off his game a little. He played pretty good against Miami and looks healthy again. Leonard isn't great but he is good IMO. When he plays our defense is usually better. I could even make an argument he is our best defensive player, Justin Houston is the only other guy that may be better and he may be a Hall of Famer. 

Yes he does make our defense better and he is our best defensive player but to say no team has a player as good as him was not true. There were like 4 guys playing better than him playing on Monday night lol

[Pacergeek]

If Ballard doesn't want to buy FA's, he must significantly improve his drafting. Look at all the WR's he passed on: Deebo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, and DK Metcalf (who looks like a future all pro). Drafting Paris Campbell shows that Ballard has a lot of work to do evaluating WR's. 

[deedub75]

I only saw this team as a potential playoff team only because of the division they play in.  

[horseshoecrabs]

Regardless of what you might like or dislike about Jacoby,  When the team loses it's starting QB no matter who he is, It's going to likely effect the whole team's from a buy in leadership   perspective.  When Peyton  was out we sucked as a team, same with Luck, And not with just us but the same with all the other NFL teams that went through it. In todays NFL, very few teams have very good back up QB's. Years ago you had more of a luxury to have a quality back up, but , it's hard to have a quality back up anymore. Jacoby can only do his job. what the coaching staff decides as the game goes on is not up to him. And he has no control over missed extra points or missed field goal attempts.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

If Ballard doesn't want to buy FA's, he must significantly improve his drafting. Look at all the WR's he passed on: Deebo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, and DK Metcalf (who looks like a future all pro). Drafting Paris Campbell shows that Ballard has a lot of work to do evaluating WR's. 

I don’t think that is fair. Campbell never got really going because of missing camp. Wasn’t until the Steelers game he finally showed what his potential is. If he hadn’t missed camp and all the other various injuries we really don’t know how his rookie year would of started.  I will say I would of taken Terry over him though. He was more nfl ready. But that is hindsight after seeing him play. There is no way of really know what we was capable of until he played.

 

The thing with Campbell if he learns that outside game he is going to be dangerous. He is a guy you can do so much with. Outside, in the slot, jet sweeps. Plus he can run the ball. 

[mahagga73]

These people saying this is a top 5 roster are delusional. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, mahagga73 said:

These people saying this is a top 5 roster are delusional. 

I agree, we may be top 10 because of our O.line, we do have decent team speed on D, and Brissett has been better than many have thought, but no to top 5. 

[Moosejawcolt]

14 hours ago, Pacergeek said:

If Ballard doesn't want to buy FA's, he must significantly improve his drafting. Look at all the WR's he passed on: Deebo Samuel, Terry McLaurin, AJ Brown, and DK Metcalf (who looks like a future all pro). Drafting Paris Campbell shows that Ballard has a lot of work to do evaluating WR's. 

I loved Campbell.  He was probably the most raw coming out of college.  I think they were looking to the future when they picked him.  Injuries have stunted his growth and  contribution to the team.

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

the so called rebuild should not be a year or two away, a good gm should put a contending team on the field each season as hoodie does. all gms should take a lesson, hoodie puts a new starting roster on the field each season, he never goes through a rebuild mode. he just upgrades each position each season with playmakers however he can get them, draft, free agents , trades, signing bad boys no one else wants, gms who only build through the draft only have average players ,look at cleveland. a team should never be in a rebuild mode only an upgrade each position mode, like hoodie does. if you only build through the draft you limit the talent you can sign

[Stephen]

Honestly  the AFC is weak this year. Other than the Pat's and ravens everyone one else is beatable. That being  said  the one thing that will stop us from winning  it all is the kicker situation. Our defense  has us in every game.