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Imgrandojji

Week 10 impressions: Hoyer the Destroyer (merge)

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Without  Luck, the Colts are in Qb hell, with Hoyer or Brissett. In qb hell, you are going to have lots of losses like today's. 

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28 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I give part of the blame to Frank today for the loss but if JB plays we would've won plain and simple. That is my point. The team was rolling with JB and played a certain way, funny how he is out and we lose 2 in a row.

Come on. We were 5-2 with every game 7 or less points of differential. It's not like we were world beating anyone.  We could have easily been 2-5. The team is simply not that good.

 

We could and should have beat this team with Hoyer. Give him the same conservative game plan JB uses every week and we're fine. Instead they made things more complex.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Come on. We were 5-2 with every game 7 or less points of differential. It's not like we were world beating anyone.  We could have easily been 2-5. The team is simply not that good.

 

We could and should have beat this team with Hoyer. Give him the same conservative game plan JB uses every week and we're fine. Instead they made things more complex.

Facts are we are 5-2 with JB, without him 0-2. No sugarcoating it.

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Come on. We were 5-2 with every game 7 or less points of differential. It's not like we were world beating anyone.  We could have easily been 2-5. The team is simply not that good.

 

We could and should have beat this team with Hoyer. Give him the same conservative game plan JB uses every week and we're fine. Instead they made things more complex.

No but the fact remains we were winning the close games and not throwing them away with INT.

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Hoyer was bad today...he only "threw" 2 INTs...that first INT was 100% on Ebron. Game is probably a bit different if he could catch.

 

Also...I know this is Hoyer's thread...but Ebron should deservedly catch a lot of heat for this game today...especially after his little conference call with the media. I have a feeling that this fanbase is about to turn on him.

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19 minutes ago, ScotColt said:

Hoyer was a terrible idea in the first place. How the # did Ballard see anything in firstly Philip walker then Brian hoyer? 
 

When we first brought this guy in people were like he is a great mentor, locker room guy and will help JB... lol I’m interested in players who can play the game - and this guy can’t.

I think at the time he was probably the best option. I don’t think it would of been wise to go with CK. But after tonight hoyer needs cut and CK deserves the backup job.

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4 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

Easy to overreact to a game like this when Hoyer played well last week, but it is what it is.  Hoyer is a literally average backup QB, if you put those guys on the field, they can do this to you in any single game.

 

Entirely possible that Kelly does the same thing to us, but at least if you gamble on raw talent you have a chance to be pleasant surprised.  Brissett is one thing, Hoyer should not be the reason Kelly isn't starting, and again I find myself chafing at the archconservatism of the Colts' braintrust.

They didn't  have tape on hoyer last week and he still threw a pick 6. Hoyer sucks. 3 ints against the dolphins backup  cbs.

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Just now, shastamasta said:

Hoyer was bad today...he only "threw" 2 INTs...that first INT was 100% on Ebron. Game is probably a bit different if he could catch.

 

Also...I know this is Hoyer's thread...but Ebron should deservedly catch a lot of heat for this game today...especially after his little conference call with the media. I have a feeling that this fanbase is about to turn on him.

He lead the team with 56 yards. I personally think that was a TD and he got screwed.

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No but the fact remains we were winning the close games and not throwing them away with INT.

Yep. Brissett doesn't lose games very often. He had the pick 6 vs Oak and that is it. We would be 7-2 with him, I feel very confident in saying so.

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Just now, Stephen said:

They didn't  have tape on hoyer last week and he still threw a pick 6. Hoyer sucks. 3 ints against the dolphins backup  cbs.

Most of this goes on reich and not putting him in a position to succeed.  Letting him dictate the game plan was ridiculous. Especially with no WR. You simplify it because you don’t need a lot of points.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Most of this goes on reich and not putting him in a position to succeed.  Letting him dictate the game plan was ridiculous. Especially with no WR. You simplify it because you don’t need a lot of points.

They were too aggressive  in the red zone. Should have got the first down then the td

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He lead the team with 56 yards. I personally think that was a TD and he got screwed.

 

Yet your quick to say Hoyer had 3 INTs in this game. 

 

Ebron dropped it...that's what he does. And he had another drop or two later in the game...and then didn't run to the first down marker on a 4th down play. He had 56 yards because he inexplicably got 30% of the target share. He had a bad game...and trying to force the ball to him (with Hoyer at QB) was a big reason why this offense looked so bad today.

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4 minutes ago, Stephen said:

They were too aggressive  in the red zone. Should have got the first down then the td

They were to aggressive all game.

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

They were to aggressive all game.

One thing is for sure. The jags will stomp us if hoyer starts next week.  

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yep. Brissett doesn't lose games very often. He had the pick 6 vs Oak and that is it. We would be 7-2 with him, I feel very confident in saying so.

 

I think JB would beat MIA...but I am not confident about PIT. That was a road game against the best pass defense they played all season. I wouldn't have been confident with Luck either. 

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12 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Yet your quick to say Hoyer had 3 INTs in this game. 

 

Ebron dropped it...that's what he does. And he had another drop or two later in the game...and then didn't run to the first down marker on a 4th down play. He had 56 yards because he inexplicably got 30% of the target share. He had a bad game...and trying to force the ball to him (with Hoyer at QB) was a big reason why this offense looked so bad today.

He had three INTs because he gets credited with it, fair or unfair.  Just like when a QB throws a two yard pass that a back of WR breaks for a 60 yard TD they get credited with a TD.  

 

I agree if Ebron catches that first pass clean then it’s moot point, he did what Ebron does though and juggled it.  We are seeing why the Lions gave up on Ebron this year.  Last year is proving to be the exception.  

 

What we don’t know is was Ebron the intended target on most of those targets or is that where Hoyer just decided to go.  With so many WRs out and the Phish pretty much taking away Pascel Ebron or Doyle were probably the next two best options.  It does seem like Hoyer kept trying to force it to Ebron when it wasn’t there.  Was he told too or did he just make poor decisions?  That we don’t know.

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40 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Facts are we are 5-2 with JB, without him 0-2. No sugarcoating it.

Yes, and without zero context.... 

 

Again, this is about Hoyer and Reich, and the dialog that started had nothing to do with JB. 

If today's outcome makes you feel better about JB.... just think about that for a second.

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Just now, EastStreet said:

Yes, and without zero context.... 

 

Again, this is about Hoyer and Reich, and the dialog that started had nothing to do with JB. 

If today's outcome makes you feel better about JB.... just think about that for a second.

Today's outcome makes me sick but we would've won with JB, JMO. I hate losing.

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42 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No but the fact remains we were winning the close games and not throwing them away with INT.

All of them are close.... 

And our schedule is soft. We've made too many bad teams look good both with JB and Hoyer. 

 

It just goes to show how low the bar, and our expectations are right now.

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3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Today's outcome makes me sick but we would've won with JB, JMO. I hate losing.

 

I believe JB would have won today ... but that really isn't saying a whole lot; mostly that Hoyer was terrible.  Today's game doesn't move the needle one way or the other for me as far as answering the question about JB as the long term option.

 

Just out of curiosity how do you see JB compared to a healthy Alex Smith? Dak Prescott?

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

All of them are close.... 

And our schedule is soft. We've made too many bad teams look good both with JB and Hoyer. 

 

It just goes to show how low the bar, and our expectations are right now.

Reich seems to not be able to call a game correctly against bad teams. I am not sure what it is.  He doesn’t stick to what’s been working. 

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13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Today's outcome makes me sick but we would've won with JB, JMO. I hate losing.

I think we win today with JB and a typical JB game plan. I also think we win today with Hoyer and typcial JB game plan.

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I really hope Reich is beating himself up over this. His bad play calling in certain situations keeps happening. Maybe it’s inexperience but it’s inexcuseable.

 

He should of sat down with hoyer and said we are running the ball and here are the few pass plays we will use. Not letting him dictate what he wants.

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3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

He should of say down with hoyer and said we are running the ball and here are the few pass plays we will use. Not letting him dictate what he wants.

The only play callers that do that at the NFL level are guys who are hardliners and/or have a very inexperienced QB and FR is neither

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

I think we win today with JB and a typical JB game plan. I also think we win today with Hoyer and typcial JB game plan.

 

I agree with your premise, although I don't know if Hoyer is capable of sticking to a JB plan.  After watching Hoyer interview after the game he sounded to me like he still thought the shots at the endzone was the right move and he "had to take advantage of the man coverage".  Makes me think that even if they sent him in with the JB plan the times he "just had to take advantage of something" might derail what makes JB able to find some measure of success being so conservative. 

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42 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

He had three INTs because he gets credited with it, fair or unfair.  Just like when a QB throws a two yard pass that a back of WR breaks for a 60 yard TD they get credited with a TD.  

 

I agree if Ebron catches that first pass clean then it’s moot point, he did what Ebron does though and juggled it.  We are seeing why the Lions gave up on Ebron this year.  Last year is proving to be the exception.  

 

What we don’t know is was Ebron the intended target on most of those targets or is that where Hoyer just decided to go.  With so many WRs out and the Phish pretty much taking away Pascel Ebron or Doyle were probably the next two best options.  It does seem like Hoyer kept trying to force it to Ebron when it wasn’t there.  Was he told too or did he just make poor decisions?  That we don’t know.

 

I don't really know that either. If I had to guess...it was part Hoyer and mostly Reich. Hoyer was the QB against PIT...with TY out...and Ebron only had 2 targets (in a game they still passed 31 times). And then in this game, he has 12 targets. So it would seem that something changed during the week. And I don't think Hoyer set out to force-feed him the ball.  

 

Ultimately, Hoyer is not a good QB...I think most people knew that when he was signed. And I would happy to never see him take another snap. But while he had 3 INTs today...he didn't throw 3 INTs. If JB was the QB for a pick like that...most would be quick to point out that why it wasn't on him. Nobody will point that out for Hoyer...so I am doing it.

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10 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Reich seems to not be able to call a game correctly against bad teams. I am not sure what it is.  He doesn’t stick to what’s been working. 

Honestly, I have zero idea what to think about Reich right now. Did he come up with the deep game plan... if so bad. Did Reich allow a back up QB with a long history of INT problems to alter his gameplan? if so, even worse... Is he afraid to open things up for JB? If so, scary that he doesn't trust JB. Is Reich to sentimental to pull the trigger on AV, if so, that's not good for the team. 

 

Bad week, and bad look, for Frank... 

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18 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I believe JB would have won today ... but that really isn't saying a whole lot; mostly that Hoyer was terrible.  Today's game doesn't move the needle one way or the other for me as far as answering the question about JB as the long term option.

 

Just out of curiosity how do you see JB compared to a healthy Alex Smith? Dak Prescott?

 

I think Alex Smith...with less athleticism...is likely his ceiling....which can be a solid QB...just not one that I am sold on him winning a Super Bowl.  

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2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I don't really know that either. If I had to guess...it was part Hoyer and mostly Reich. Hoyer was the QB against PIT...with TY out...and Ebron only had 2 targets (in a game they still passed 31 times). And then in this game, he has 12 targets. So it would seem that something changed during the week. And I don't think Hoyer set out to force-feed him the ball.  

 

Ultimately, Hoyer is not a good QB...I think most people knew that when he was signed. And I would happy to never see him take another snap. But while he had 3 INTs today...he didn't throw 3 INTs. If JB was the QB for a pick like that...most would be quick to point out that why it wasn't on him. Nobody will point that out for Hoyer...so I am doing it.

I agree the one was because of Ebron but Hoyer still gets credited with it just as Jacoby would.  That’s the life of the NFL QB.  Also I don’t think we would be talking about that INT and Hoyer if he hadn’t thrown two other INTs that were just horrible decisions by him.  The third one just sorta gets lumped in there but I think everyone would tell you that’s on Ebron and not him.  

 

I will agree I would prefer not to see anymore or Hoyer.  I think we all feel that way right now.

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He had pascal wide open for a TD on that last set of plays. He also had a checkdown to Hines where Hines might of been able to get the first. But once again why isn’t Mack in there and see if the oline can open up a hole. Tonight you see when a QB actually go through his reads.

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Honestly, I have zero idea what to think about Reich right now. Did he come up with the deep game plan... if so bad. Did Reich allow a back up QB with a long history of INT problems to alter his gameplan? if so, even worse... Is he afraid to open things up for JB? If so, scary that he doesn't trust JB. Is Reich to sentimental to pull the trigger on AV, if so, that's not good for the team. 

 

Bad week, and bad look, for Frank... 

 

I think part of the reason they threw deep was to get MIA off the LOS. They were crowding and blitzing...and Reich wanted to keep them honest. Unfortunately, it wasn't working...so I don't know why they didn't switch it up.

 

I would be very interested to see the game plan for the PIT and MIA games...and how similar they were.

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9 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I agree with your premise, although I don't know if Hoyer is capable of sticking to a JB plan.  After watching Hoyer interview after the game he sounded to me like he still thought the shots at the endzone was the right move and he "had to take advantage of the man coverage".  Makes me think that even if they sent him in with the JB plan the times he "just had to take advantage of something" might derail what makes JB able to find some measure of success being so conservative. 

 

I think that's a very limited take about the end of the game. 

 

And I'll make it simple.... I don't think Hoyer is the type of guy that is unwilling to follow a game plan. If Reich tells him not to do something, he won't. The plays that were called (all game) seemed very different from the typical game plan with JB. A lot less shallow routes, and a lot more multiple deep routes. IMO, they were both complicit, but it falls on Frank because he's the adult in the relationship.

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4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Honestly, I have zero idea what to think about Reich right now. Did he come up with the deep game plan... if so bad. Did Reich allow a back up QB with a long history of INT problems to alter his gameplan? if so, even worse... Is he afraid to open things up for JB? If so, scary that he doesn't trust JB. Is Reich to sentimental to pull the trigger on AV, if so, that's not good for the team. 

 

Bad week, and bad look, for Frank... 

I am not impressed. Three weeks in a row with bad decisions.  It does make you wonder if the reason Jacoby doesn’t go downfield more is more frank and not Jacoby. 

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14 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I agree with your premise, although I don't know if Hoyer is capable of sticking to a JB plan.  After watching Hoyer interview after the game he sounded to me like he still thought the shots at the endzone was the right move and he "had to take advantage of the man coverage".  Makes me think that even if they sent him in with the JB plan the times he "just had to take advantage of something" might derail what makes JB able to find some measure of success being so conservative. 

Agreed

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16 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I think part of the reason they threw deep was to get MIA off the LOS. They were crowding and blitzing...and Reich wanted to keep them honest. Unfortunately, it wasn't working...so I don't know why they didn't switch it up.

 

I would be very interested to see the game plan for the PIT and MIA games...and how similar they were.

If they are blitzing, throw short into the blitz and make them pay. 

 

I doubt the game plans are still around. Toilet paper doesn't age well :-)

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16 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am not impressed. Three weeks in a row with bad decisions.  It does make you wonder if the reason Jacoby doesn’t go downfield more is more frank and not Jacoby. 

I think it's both. Frank calls more shallow routes for JB, but most plays there is one guy going deep, or clearing. The seam is open a lot for JB, but instead JB attempts to hit the drag if open or not. That's one of my biggest issues with JB. If he'd start popping the seam, the Ds would have to play different.

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think that's a very limited take about the end of the game. 

 

And I'll make it simple.... I don't think Hoyer is the type of guy that is unwilling to follow a game plan. If Reich tells him not to do something, he won't. The plays that were called (all game) seemed very different from the typical game plan with JB. A lot less shallow routes, and a lot more multiple deep routes. IMO, they were both complicit, but it falls on Frank because he's the adult in the relationship.

 

I agree that this game plan was not the typical JB game plan.  I think the coaching staff honestly chose stuff that they thought Hoyer could execute ... unfortunately Hoyer is what he is and on a day when he "is on" this game plan might have been a little more successful. 

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say I think Hoyer would be unwilling to follow the game plan, but even if he was given a "JB game plan" he would be given the latitude to make some judgement calls and that's where the difference would be, he would see "can't pass opportunities" where JB took the safer option. I am sure after today's debacle if he were to start the next game he would take far fewer chances, he would be given less latitude, and the game plan would be much more conservative.

 

I agree Reich takes some blame in this some of the plays were head scratchers.  I think Reich over estimated Hoyers abilities (and underestimated the Dolphins) and came up with a flawed game plan. I also think Flores knew  from being with the Pat's exactly what Hoyer's weaknesses were (probably better than Reich) and exploited them

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Does anyone think there will be conversions going on with ballard Reich and Irsay to cut hoyer and leave Kelly as the backup. 

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16 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I agree that this game plan was not the typical JB game plan.  I think the coaching staff honestly chose stuff that they thought Hoyer could execute ... unfortunately Hoyer is what he is and on a day when he "is on" this game plan might have been a little more successful. 

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say I think Hoyer would be unwilling to follow the game plan, but even if he was given a "JB game plan" he would be given the latitude to make some judgement calls and that's where the difference would be, he would see "can't pass opportunities" where JB took the safer option. I am sure after today's debacle if he were to start the next game he would take far fewer chances, he would be given less latitude, and the game plan would be much more conservative.

 

I agree Reich takes some blame in this some of the plays were head scratchers.  I think Reich over estimated Hoyers abilities (and underestimated the Dolphins) and came up with a flawed game plan. I also think Flores knew  from being with the Pat's exactly what Hoyer's weaknesses were (probably better than Reich) and exploited them

Agree on most except the Flores part. I'm sure they expected a more conservative JB type game plan too lol. Maybe Reich thought the same, and was using reverse psychology lol....

 

Anyway, hate losing. If we drop the next two, I think we're done. Both should be difficult given our play all season. Jax with extra rest and two weeks to prep. Houston with a revenge chip on their shoulders in their house..... Today should have been automatic regardless of QB.

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