The Art of throwing receivers open Brissett, Hoyer Stampede Blue

[lollygagger8 10,781]

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/7/20950681/brian-hoyer-jacoby-brissett-and-the-art-of-throwing-receivers-open#518763337

 

I agree it's a small sample size, but Jacoby also didn't play that much in the Steelers game. 

I wrote this comment in the comment section because I believe it's true (as much as I hate giving props to Tom): 

 

Jacoby learned how to escape the pocket from Luck
He learned how command a huddle from Brady
Now he needs to learn anticipation from Hoyer

In this "we need everything right now" society, I think we all forget that Brissett really hasn’t played that much. He’ll get better.

 

Anyways, on with the story: 

 

In Brett Mock’s most recent Quick Reaction article, he ruffled some feathers when he wrote:

One final thought, if those who have been confused about the quarterback debate heading into this game don’t now understand the reason for the debate, I don’t really have much I can say.

Then he proceeded to say a lot.

His point wasn’t whether one QB is better than the other, but rather that they both have different strengths and weaknesses that makes it difficult to say which one would perform better on the current team.

It now comes down to the question of — would the ultra conservative, slow to get through progressions, mistake avoiding Brissett give the Colts a better chance than the more aggressive, more productive Hoyer.

Who knows? But the debate about whether Brissett is the long-term answer shouldn’t be difficult to understand at this point.

I’m not sure why there was so much blow-back to those fairly innocuous statements, but one specific point he made resonated with me:

Brian Hoyer showed . . . the ability to throw players open before they break on routes.

This has been my main knock on Jacoby Brissett. He tends to only throw to receivers that are already open, resulting in short throws. He seems hesitant to stretch the field.

 

 

Open up the link to read on. I included one pic from each QB from the article - you can see the rest here: 

https://www.stampedeblue.com/2019/11/7/20950681/brian-hoyer-jacoby-brissett-and-the-art-of-throwing-receivers-open#518763337

 

 

 

 

JACOBY BRISSETT (4/5 59 yds, 0 TD, 0 INT)

Notice that on all of Brissett’s passes, the receiver is wiiiiiide open.

Pass 1 - 1st Qtr, 1st & 10 (Shotgun) J.Brissett pass short left to Z.Pascal to PIT 27 for 8 yards (S.Nelson).

No defender within 5 yards and that is the last pass attempt on this drive.

 

 

 

BRIAN HOYER (3/5 39 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT)

Pass 1 - 2nd Qtr, 3rd & 11 (12:02) (Shotgun) B.Hoyer pass short middle to J.Doyle for 11 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

Doyle was just starting his break and about to lose his defender when Hoyer starts his wind-up. I think this is a pass that Brissett eventually throws, just not nearly as early as Hoyer did.

[bravo4460 1,770]

Total truth in the articles though. A few people just can’t accept that Jacoby Brissett really isn’t that great of a quarterback. Do I think he is terrible? No. Is he capable of winning games? Yes.

 

However he is playing like a complete game manager. There have been MANY instances where he is not throwing the ball to receivers that have space. He also doesn’t seem to be going through his reads and taking a lot of sacks. Receivers are struggling because they are not being trusted to make plays. Previous Colts QBs trusted their teammates and threw receivers open.

 

Brissett still has room to grow obviously but in order to become the man and franchise QB I think he needs to start making the throws we know he can make.

 

Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently.

 

 

[FRW 121]

"'Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently."

 

 

Except he's a statue. There were probably two or three times Sunday that JB would have run for a first down or avoided a sack because of his mobility. Hoyer went down on all of them. Too bad we don't have a QB with Hoyer's passing skills and JB's mobility. Oh wait we used to. Whatever happened to that guy. That is part of the problem right now. Offensively this team is built for Andrew Luck, not Jacoby Brissett. They are stylistically very different. CB and FR are going have to decide, do they make changes to fit JB's skill set, does or can JB make changes to adapt to the team as it's presently constructed or is someone else brought in to better match the other pieces already in place?

 

That being said if we had a kicker who could make 90% of his PATs, not an unreasonable expectation at this level, we would be 7-1 and tied with NE for first in the AFC.

[aaron11 2,807]

9 minutes ago, FRW said:

Offensively this team is built for Andrew Luck, not Jacoby Brissett

 

this i can agree with, guys like Ebron and Funchess are here because they are Lucks kind of receivers.  they are not going to be wide open, the QB needs to throw them open or trust them to make contested catches.

 

JB seems to do better with guys like doyle and rogers, defenses give them plenty of room 

[bhougland 232]

Another issue with not throwing your receivers open, in other words using anticipation, is that there is less of a chance of big plays and YAC.  The receivers don't have that much time to remain open before the defender is right back on them again.  So, this is why a lot of Brissett's throws are caught and then the receiver is immediately tackled.  However, if he were to anticipate the opening better then the receiver has maximum separation when he catches the ball and can run for additional yards. 

 

We have like no big pass plays this year.  I am not saying that Hoyer is better than Brissett, but I did see him use better anticipation and it felt like the offense was not quite as stagnate.

[Smoke317 1,319]

I agree with a lot of these points but the pictures that the op posted are a poor example of the differences between JB & BH.  Every QB from the pros down to high school can make the td pass to Doyle.  It was that easy.  Now the one to Pascal...  That was a dime.  As was the fade late in the game.

 

Thing is we saw JB make those kind of throws in the very first game.  He hit Cain with an amazing back shoulder.  Don't know where that's gone???  Tried it later with Funchess on the play he got hurt.  Hit Funchess on the 4th down play.  The TD to Campbell was an intermediate touch pass that was also nice.

 

That was just in the first game.  He also made a beautiful deep back shoulder to TY that he dropped in the Texans game.  So I think JB can obviously make the throws.  But I guess the question is why doesn't he attempt them more often?  Is it lack of trust?  Is he too conservative and doesn't want to risk losing a game?  A combination of both?

 

Regardless, I'm sticking with JB over Hoyer.  And JB is far from a finished product.  He's got much still to learn.  He's gotta get better pre snap.  Diagnosing what the defense is gonna do and know where he's gonna attack them.  Also, he needs to trust Cain more.  We're gonna need his involvement over the next few weeks.

[Nickster 621]

2 hours ago, FRW said:

"'Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently."

 

 

Except he's a statue. There were probably two or three times Sunday that JB would have run for a first down or avoided a sack because of his mobility. Hoyer went down on all of them. Too bad we don't have a QB with Hoyer's passing skills and JB's mobility. Oh wait we used to. Whatever happened to that guy. That is part of the problem right now. Offensively this team is built for Andrew Luck, not Jacoby Brissett. They are stylistically very different. CB and FR are going have to decide, do they make changes to fit JB's skill set, does or can JB make changes to adapt to the team as it's presently constructed or is someone else brought in to better match the other pieces already in place?

 

That being said if we had a kicker who could make 90% of his PATs, not an unreasonable expectation at this level, we would be 7-1 and tied with NE for first in the AFC.

 

JB sheds some tacklers but is less than average as a runner.  Very slow.  
Averages 13ypg and 3 ypc and has a long of 9.

 

He runs fairly often, but there are probably reasons for that.

[shasta519 2,960]

2 hours ago, FRW said:

"'Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently."

 

 

Except he's a statue. There were probably two or three times Sunday that JB would have run for a first down or avoided a sack because of his mobility. Hoyer went down on all of them. Too bad we don't have a QB with Hoyer's passing skills and JB's mobility. Oh wait we used to. Whatever happened to that guy. That is part of the problem right now. Offensively this team is built for Andrew Luck, not Jacoby Brissett. They are stylistically very different. CB and FR are going have to decide, do they make changes to fit JB's skill set, does or can JB make changes to adapt to the team as it's presently constructed or is someone else brought in to better match the other pieces already in place?

 

That being said if we had a kicker who could make 90% of his PATs, not an unreasonable expectation at this level, we would be 7-1 and tied with NE for first in the AFC.

 

My hope is that it's the latter...but from a playcalling standpoint...they have already made changes to suit JB. Those crossing (rub) routes are now a staple of the offense. 

[throwing BBZ 2,633]

3 hours ago, bravo4460 said:

Total truth in the articles though. A few people just can’t accept that Jacoby Brissett really isn’t that great of a quarterback. Do I think he is terrible? No. Is he capable of winning games? Yes.

 

However he is playing like a complete game manager. There have been MANY instances where he is not throwing the ball to receivers that have space. He also doesn’t seem to be going through his reads and taking a lot of sacks. Receivers are struggling because they are not being trusted to make plays. Previous Colts QBs trusted their teammates and threw receivers open.

 

Brissett still has room to grow obviously but in order to become the man and franchise QB I think he needs to start making the throws we know he can make.

 

Also minus the one pick 6 Hoyer looked better than Brissett has recently.

 

 

 

 LMAO
  Our last QB held on to the ball until last season. It got him killed time and again.
 He held on to it waiting for his receivers to come out of their breaks then using his over the top (often sailing) fast ball to try to get in in there in time.
 The high and late passes got guys killed and caused many so called "drops", and Int's.
 After the first couple games settling in, Brissett has shown a better short to mid-range accurate touch than our last QB ever had. 
 No doubt he must get better. He and his receivers need more experience together being on the same page reading coverages.
 After another training camp and another 1/2 season will be a fairer time to know what he can be.

[hoosierhawk 827]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 LMAO
  Our last QB held on to the ball until last season. It got him killed time and again.
 He held on to it waiting for his receivers to come out of their breaks then using his over the top (often sailing) fast ball to try to get in in there in time.
 The high and late passes got guys killed and caused many so called "drops", and Int's.
 After the first couple games settling in, Brissett has shown a better short to mid-range accurate touch than our last QB ever had. 
 No doubt he must get better. He and his receivers need more experience together being on the same page reading coverages.
 After another training camp and another 1/2 season will be a fairer time to know what he can be.

The reason Luck got injured was we had one of the very worst Olines in the league. Reading your post one would think Luck was one of the worst QB in the league also rather than a top five QB as most football people in the NFL believed. Kind of unbelievable post. Again tearing one guy down to make another guy look better.

[Superman 37,549]

16 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 LMAO
  Our last QB held on to the ball until last season. It got him killed time and again.
 He held on to it waiting for his receivers to come out of their breaks then using his over the top (often sailing) fast ball to try to get in in there in time.
 The high and late passes got guys killed and caused many so called "drops", and Int's.
 After the first couple games settling in, Brissett has shown a better short to mid-range accurate touch than our last QB ever had. 
 No doubt he must get better. He and his receivers need more experience together being on the same page reading coverages.
 After another training camp and another 1/2 season will be a fairer time to know what he can be.

 

Setting aside the persistent assailing of Andrew Luck -- can't even type his name??? -- who cares? How do Luck's issues have anything to do with Brissett's play?

 

(Also, the fact that Luck almost immediately changed his style of play, and performed well, as soon as he got a non-Coryell offense that wasn't run by Pep Hamilton, strongly suggests that the problem was never Luck, but was the coaching. Which is something I said all the way back when Arians was calling the same deep post double move route combos in 2012.)

 

Brissett might get better. That has nothing to do with Andrew Luck. 

[aaron11 2,807]

19 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Our last QB held on to the ball until last season

 

they were running a coryell offense when chuck was here, which is about holding the ball and throwing it deep

 

 

[hoosierhawk 827]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Setting aside the persistent assailing of Andrew Luck -- can't even type his name??? -- who cares? How do Luck's issues have anything to do with Brissett's play?

 

(Also, the fact that Luck almost immediately changed his style of play, and performed well, as soon as he got a non-Coryell offense that wasn't run by Pep Hamilton, strongly suggests that the problem was never Luck, but was the coaching. Which is something I said all the way back when Arians was calling the same deep post double move route combos in 2012.)

 

Brissett might get better. That has nothing to do with Andrew Luck. 

Glad to see you are back. Need you insight around here.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

Dear God as our friend Jskinnz loves to say. About 20 other starting QB's does the same thing as Brissett does most games. Lets analyze every throw they make as well  . Lets go back and watch the Falcons and Texans games and it will show Brissett playing like Peyton Manning completing everything even in tight windows. Put those pictures up.

[Nickster 621]

QBs get scrutinized Bestever, especially when a team has to consider whether or not to give someone the keys to the organization.  Quite the vetting process.

 

On a fan forum people type about what they want to.  

 

Merica baby.  Enjoy yourself.

[DougDew 4,284]

1 hour ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 LMAO
  Our last QB held on to the ball until last season. It got him killed time and again.
 He held on to it waiting for his receivers to come out of their breaks then using his over the top (often sailing) fast ball to try to get in in there in time.
 The high and late passes got guys killed and caused many so called "drops", and Int's.
 After the first couple games settling in, Brissett has shown a better short to mid-range accurate touch than our last QB ever had. 
 No doubt he must get better. He and his receivers need more experience together being on the same page reading coverages.
 After another training camp and another 1/2 season will be a fairer time to know what he can be.

Yes.  Its relevant to point to these flaws in Luck because he never got massively criticized for them.  Now that our QB is not Luck, the QB gets massively criticized for them.

 

I guess if JB can't throw receivers open, we'll just have to find receivers that get open by themselves.  And a 3tech DT and maybe even 4 new DBs,  yes 4,  that actually make plays that give our QB better field position occasionally.  (but they're still young).  And a more consistent kicker.

 

We had the GOAT from 1999 to 2012 and the other #1 pick in the draft , the Something-Less-Than-GOAT for 5 years after that.  In about 20 years of paying that type of QB we've had 1 superbowl win. 

 

JB is fine,IMO.  And yes he needs to improve, as would a new college rookie QB would need to improve, like both PM and AL had to also.

[Nickster 621]

Was Luck not criticized on here?  I wasn't on the forum then, but my brother and I criticized him  a lot and I remember media too.

 

He was great though anyway.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

27 minutes ago, Nickster said:

QBs get scrutinized Bestever, especially when a team has to consider whether or not to give someone the keys to the organization.  Quite the vetting process.

 

On a fan forum people type about what they want to.  

 

Merica baby.  Enjoy yourself.

I get it and that is what this forum is for, I don't mind it but every week and especially after we win too? I mean it is a little much IMO. Yes Luck got criticized too but JB gets bashed by a few in here. As in some just think he is bad which isn't the case. That is where I get irritated. Chad Kelly has never played a snap in a regular season game and people really want him over JB? Like I said dear God. If you watch ESPN and the NFL Channel, not 1 person thinks JB is bad, some even mention that he is the running for MVP, so what I am missing when Colts fans in here think he can't throw or is bad? Just asking.

[DougDew 4,284]

15 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Was Luck not criticized on here?  I wasn't on the forum then, but my brother and I criticized him  a lot and I remember media too.

 

He was great though anyway.

Mildly, but mainly for things like obvious interceptions.   Those who criticized him for other things did it fairly quietly. 

 

Those were the years where the GM and oline were criticized as being the cause of anything bad that happened to the Colts, including Luck's own injuries.  Pagano was too, but that was from the half who didn't criticize the GM as much.

[Nickster 621]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Mildly, but mainly for things like obvious interceptions.   Those who criticized him for other things did it fairly quietly. 

 

Those were the years where the GM and oline were criticized as being the cause of anything bad that happened to the Colts, including Luck's own injuries.  Pagano was too, but that was from the half who didn't criticize the GM as much.

 

Well the GM, Oline, and Coach were abysmal.  They should have gotten criticized.

 

Luck had to deal with consistent pressure between the guards.  That is very hard to do.

[Superman 37,549]

20 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its relevant to point to these flaws in Luck because he never got massively criticized for them.

 

That's patently false, top to bottom.

 

Where do you guys come up with this nonsense?

[Nickster 621]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I get it and that is what this forum is for, I don't mind it but every week and especially after we win too? I mean it is a little much IMO. Yes Luck got criticized too but JB gets bashed by a few in here. As in some just think he is bad which isn't the case. That is where I get irritated. Chad Kelly has never played a snap in a regular season game and people really want him over JB? Like I said dear God. If you watch ESPN and the NFL Channel, not 1 person thinks JB is bad, some even mention that he is the running for MVP, so what I am missing when Colts fans in here think he can't throw or is bad? Just asking.

 

I will tell you this.  I would be shocked right now if the organization is satisfied with what it has under center.  And I mean schocked.

[Nickster 621]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I get it and that is what this forum is for, I don't mind it but every week and especially after we win too? I mean it is a little much IMO. Yes Luck got criticized too but JB gets bashed by a few in here. As in some just think he is bad which isn't the case. That is where I get irritated. Chad Kelly has never played a snap in a regular season game and people really want him over JB? Like I said dear God. If you watch ESPN and the NFL Channel, not 1 person thinks JB is bad, some even mention that he is the running for MVP, so what I am missing when Colts fans in here think he can't throw or is bad? Just asking.

 

And I just think things are funny.  

 

Like did you seriously not notice how guys suddenly seemed to be "open" after Hoyer entered the game?  

We have had debate for weeks about guys not  being open downfield, then all the sudden, we have several different recievers catching the ball downfield.

 

Did you notice that?  If not, I think that's funny but it doesn't irritate me.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I will tell you this.  I would be shocked right now if the organization is satisfied with what it has under center.  And I mean schocked.

Unless a team has Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, or Brady, I don't think any team is fully satisfied with what they have  . That is the nature of the NFL. I am not 100% sold on JB but IMO he isn't bad and we win most of the time when he is under center.

[DougDew 4,284]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's patently false, top to bottom.

 

Where do you guys come up with this nonsense?

You did criticize him.  I shouldn't have said never.

[Nickster 621]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Unless a team has Mahomes, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, or Brady, I don't think any team is fully satisfied with what they have  . That is the nature of the NFL. I am not 100% sold on JB but IMO he isn't bad and we win most of the time when he is under center.

 

But there are many, many teams who are not going to spend high draft capital on a QB.  I would be very surprised if the Colts are in that particular group.

 

OK great but have you noticed that we have a +5 point differential against a sub 500 schedule?

 

We've played like a 500 team or a little below, and I think that is largely a reflection of inadequate QBing.  That's all.

[DougDew 4,284]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

Well the GM, Oline, and Coach were abysmal.  They should have gotten criticized.

 

Luck had to deal with consistent pressure between the guards.  That is very hard to do.

Just pointing out a slight movement of the goalpost here.  I never said they shouldn't have gotten criticized.  I said they got criticized for mainly everything.

 

Luck threw high.  Luck was generally inaccurate on the short passes that required YAC.  Luck hardly ever looked for checkdowns quick enough, contributing to effect of pressure.  I'm not sure how much he audibled out of a bad play.  If poor coaching or OC decisions were the cause of it, then he didn't have enough guts to tell them to shove it and play what he thought would work during the game, like Manning or Favre would have.

 

Luck was great, but he had flaws and I wasn't too disappointed when he announced his retirement.  We had other things to build to get to the SB then, and still do whether he is here or not.

 

[hoosierhawk 827]

21 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

And I just think things are funny.  

 

Like did you seriously not notice how guys suddenly seemed to be "open" after Hoyer entered the game?  

We have had debate for weeks about guys not  being open downfield, then all the sudden, we have several different recievers catching the ball downfield.

 

Did you notice that?  If not, I think that's funny but it doesn't irritate me.

That is funny. My wife who loves the Colts and wouldn't miss a game but really doesn't know football said when Hoyer came in, " Who is this guy and where has he been? He is passing all over the field. " Thought that was hilarious.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

But there are many, many teams who are not going to spend high draft capital on a QB.  I would be very surprised if the Colts are in that particular group.

I look at these college QB's playing now and none of them stand out to me like Luck did. Burrow is good for example and a couple others but when Luck came out I knew we had a great one. To me JB should be our guy for a while. When it comes to the draft I would focus on pass rush and getting another play maker at WR. Other than TY Hilton our WR core is average at best.

[stitches 9,702]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Setting aside the persistent assailing of Andrew Luck -- can't even type his name??? -- who cares? How do Luck's issues have anything to do with Brissett's play?

 

(Also, the fact that Luck almost immediately changed his style of play, and performed well, as soon as he got a non-Coryell offense that wasn't run by Pep Hamilton, strongly suggests that the problem was never Luck, but was the coaching. Which is something I said all the way back when Arians was calling the same deep post double move route combos in 2012.)

 

Brissett might get better. That has nothing to do with Andrew Luck. 

This is something I've been saying for a while too... This is such a horrible argument and misrepresentation of what exactly Luck's strengths and weaknesses were.

 

Players like Brissett, like Mariota, etc. hold onto the ball because they have trouble eliminating and isolating reads in the progression and going through the progressions. Luck never had that problem, in fact it was one of his strongest suits. Luck played in an Air Coryell system that relied heavily on deep routes that develop slowly. And he was relied to do that PRECISELY BECAUSE he was able to make full field progression reads, with bullets flying all around him!! In fact, this was such a big positive in his game that they gave him that responsibility from day 1. Most rookie QBs, even the ones that can throw deep are eased into a role like that, because the throw itself is the easiest part of throwing deep - navigating the pocket, reading the field and anticipating when to release the ball were much harder and Luck was amazing at it. Luck had the freedom and responsibility to do it from game 1 in his rookie year. 

 

This is the reason in the last year of his Air Coryell tenure he had about 40% of his drop backs being 7 step drops. This was about 230 of his 580 something dropbacks. Just for reference - most QBs in the league have to play 10 years in the league to get as many 7 step drop backs as Luck was getting in a single season.

 

The problem with Luck was that he sometimes held the ball too long because of his belief that he can make the play instead of taking a lost down and throwing it away. He was pushing his luck way too much and in some situations it cost us. Luck was holding the ball to make plays(and was making a ton of them), Brissett is holding the ball because he cannot see the throws he needs to make. 

[Nickster 621]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Just pointing out a slight movement of the goalpost here.  I never said they shouldn't have gotten criticized.  I said they got criticized for mainly everything.

 

Luck threw high.  Luck was generally inaccurate on the short passes that required YAC.  Luck hardly ever looked for checkdowns quick enough, contributing to effect of pressure.  I'm not sure how much he audibled out of a bad play.  If poor coaching or OC decisions were the cause of it, then he didn't have enough guts to tell them to shove it and play what he thought would work during the game, like Manning or Favre would have.

 

Luck was great, but he had flaws and I wasn't too disappointed when he announced his retirement.  We had other things to build to get to the SB then, and still do whether he is here or not.

 

 

I thought Luck was actually underrated by a lot of fans Doug.  He took trash teams to well beyond there expected win totals IMO.  The lack of talent on the lines was pretty much astounding.  Like I said, escpecially up the middle on on both sides.

I too thought Andy held to long sometimes, but he got incridbile production out of a really really bad roster.  I think most people would agree with that.

 

But JB on the other hand seems to limit the offensive roster IMO.  Last weeks performance by Hoyer was pretty strong evidence of that IMO.

 

So I don't  think it's unreasonable to wonder whether the offense is being helped or hindered by Brisett.  I think its being held back personally.

[Nickster 621]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I look at these college QB's playing now and none of them stand out to me like Luck did. Burrow is good for example and a couple others but when Luck came out I knew we had a great one. To me JB should be our guy for a while. When it comes to the draft I would focus on pass rush and getting another play maker at WR. Other than TY Hilton our WR core is average at best.

 

There are certainly no Andrew Luck's in this years' draft. 

 

I am not saying there won't be great QBs even better than Luck possibly, (I doubt it).

 

There have rarely been no doubters like Luck.  Manning.  Then I am trying to think who else would fit that bill.  

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

10 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

But there are many, many teams who are not going to spend high draft capital on a QB.  I would be very surprised if the Colts are in that particular group.

 

OK great but have you noticed that we have a +5 point differential against a sub 500 schedule?

 

We've played like a 500 team or a little below, and I think that is largely a reflection of inadequate QBing.  That's all.

I am not so sure we wouldn't be 5-3 with Luck at QB. Luck was always a slow starter and usually lost a game or 2 he shouldn't. Using our schedule is a cop out. We won at KC and Mahomes played the whole game, we beat the Texans who had Watson, Hopkins, and Watt all at 100%. 

[Nickster 621]

3 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not so sure we wouldn't be 5-3 with Luck at QB. Luck was always a slow starter and usually lost a game or 2 he shouldn't. Using our schedule is a cop out. We won at KC and Mahomes played the whole game, we beat the Texans who had Watson, Hopkins, and Watt all at 100%. 

 

It's impossible to say what would happen in individual games because there are so many variables.

 

But I am certain we would be a much better, explosive, dangerous football team with Luck.  I really don't think too many people could possibly feel any differently.

 

I think our passing stats would be prolific, and I think we would be dreaded around the league.

[Nickster 621]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I am not so sure we wouldn't be 5-3 with Luck at QB. Luck was always a slow starter and usually lost a game or 2 he shouldn't. Using our schedule is a cop out. We won at KC and Mahomes played the whole game, we beat the Texans who had Watson, Hopkins, and Watt all at 100%. 

 

 

See but there is another thing I think is funny.  Did you notice Mahomes' two separate injuries and that they had 3rd string WR?  You at least noticed they only scored 13 points right and that JB simply handed the ball off the entire 2nd half?

 

Thats all I'm saying.  You did notice those variables right.

 

Do you think it's possible for them to lose to us again if we score under 20?

 

We were pretty fortunate that night.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

2 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

It's impossible to say what would happen in individual games because there are so many variables.

 

But I am certain we would be a much better, explosive, dangerous football team with Luck.  I really don't think too many people could possibly feel any differently.

 

I think our passing stats would be prolific, and I think we would be dreaded around the league.

We would be better with Luck I agree. I doubt anyone would say otherwise. I am just saying with Luck we would still probably be 5-3, maybe 6-2 right now. I would say 6-2. We should win this week to get to 6-3.

[DougDew 4,284]

23 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I thought Luck was actually underrated by a lot of fans Doug.  He took trash teams to well beyond there expected win totals IMO.  The lack of talent on the lines was pretty much astounding.  Like I said, escpecially up the middle on on both sides.

I too thought Andy held to long sometimes, but he got incridbile production out of a really really bad roster.  I think most people would agree with that.

 

But JB on the other hand seems to limit the offensive roster IMO.  Last weeks performance by Hoyer was pretty strong evidence of that IMO.

 

So I don't  think it's unreasonable to wonder whether the offense is being helped or hindered by Brisett.  I think its being held back personally.

Yes he was great.  But the bad things that happened to the O and his body were also his fault too. 

 

You originally said you weren't here on the forum at that time, but it now sounds like you know what the pervasive atmosphere was.  Not sure where you're coming from, so I'll stop talking about Luck as to not get dragged into something.  

 

I think our DBs stink.  All of them, in terms of making plays.  They may get better, but as a unit, they are presently a drag on the team.  The WRs stink, they may get better, but as a unit they are a drag on the team.  The DTs stink, they may get better, cough, but as a unit they are a drag on the team.   Even if the O gets close to the red zone, or scores a TD, our kicker is starting to stink.

 

Where's this great roster JB has to work with, other than the Oline and one LB?

[Nickster 621]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We would be better with Luck I agree. I doubt anyone would say otherwise. I am just saying with Luck we would still probably be 5-3, maybe 6-2 right now. I would say 6-2. We should win this week to get to 6-3.

 

I agree.  Can't think of a way to lose to Miami at home.  Can't really even picture it unless it starts raining and gets really muddy inside the dome on the synthetic turf.

[2006Coltsbestever 29,182]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

See but there is another thing I think is funny.  Did you notice Mahomes' two separate injuries and that they had 3rd string WR?  You at least noticed they only scored 13 points right and that JB simply handed the ball off the entire 2nd half?

 

Thats all I'm saying.  You did notice those variables right.

 

Do you think it's possible for them to lose to us again if we score under 20?

 

We were pretty fortunate that night.

Pittsburgh was fortunate last week, JB got injured (TY didn't play) and we gave them a lot of gifts with the pick 6 by Hoyer, committing stupid penalty's, missing FG's, etc.. By the way Darius Leonard and Malik Hooker didn't play against KC so I can play the injury excuse card as well.

[Nickster 621]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Yes he was great.  But the bad things that happened to the O and his body were also his fault too. 

 

You originally said you weren't here on the forum at that time, but it now sounds like you know what the pervasive atmosphere was.  Not sure where you're coming from, so I'll stop talking about Luck as to not get dragged into something.  

 

I think our DBs stink.  All of them, in terms of making plays.  They may get better, but as a unit, they are presently a drag on the team.  The WRs stink, they may get better, but as a unit they are a drag on the team.  The DTs stink, they may get better, cough, but as a unit they are a drag on the team. 

 

Where's this great roster JB has to work with, other than the Oline?

 

I think our weapons are pretty good against convention.  Our TE group is top notch.  Mack is a stud IMO, and I think the WR is average.

 

The Oline is the difference man.  We didn't have a guard or center when Andy was here.

 

Our D is average and have held their own.  I like our DBs actually.  The LBs are suspect IMO.

 

Dude this forum isn't the only place people watch and discuss Colt football.  It was pretty obvious what Grigson did failed.   He tried to bolster the line but failed.  He wasted every 1st rounder from Luck up until Kelley.  The roster was trash.