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Ebron - Invisible?

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27 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Do you remember in the off season how Reich kept talking about the running game because it opens up the pass. I think it’s safe to say it’s almost the opposite. Especially if you want to run to kill the clock when you have a lead. 

Right now, most if not all teams key on our run, and dare us to throw... so heck yes, it's opened up the pass lol... We're just not that good at passing. I have no problem running the ball to chew up the clock (when leading if it's successful), but not OK with running because you're afraid to pass. 

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23 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I don't know about all that. I think it's pretty much a wash, and they are cherry picking stats a bit. 

 

The last 2 teams we played are bottom 10 in total O. Houston put up almost 400 total yards on us, which is about their norm. You can't really judge the KC game with Mahomes hobbled and their 2 best WRs out. Pitt actually put up more than their average (like 15-20% more), and Denver was only slightly below their average. In terms of pts, Denver and Pitt were 3ish pts below their average (I subtracted the 7 from the pick 6), which is really the only positive. We're still giving up the yards and on the edge.

 

To be fair...PIT got jobbed out of 4 points on that TD as well. 

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5 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

To be fair...PIT got jobbed out of 4 points on that TD as well. 

Yup they did. 

I could add several other things too, but it's already murky enough lol. Regardless, I'm not feeling out D is improving. I think getting our DBs back and healthy will help, but outside of that, I don't see things changing unless our pass rush steps it up. 

 

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3 hours ago, Freenyfan102 said:

When have DF and Campbell ever shown up in a game that scares the other team

 

That wasn't my point. Our depth is starting to run thin at the skill position. I thought the obvious, at this point, is to put Ebron on the field more. 

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The D Is clearly improved. Especially in the red zone. I can’t find the tweet. We gave up the edge plays to the Steelers but that’s all they got. That is how this defense rolls. We are a bend don’t break. Since Sheard got back Houston has been playing great and we are not allowing much in the red zone or many points.

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You can’t really put a asterisk on defensive stats or say it’s cherry picking. Houston allowed more points to KC with a banged up Mahomes. You could cherry pick or put a asterisk on every teams stats. That’s not fair. When the team does something good you always want to say its because of something else then giving them credit.

 

I believe the numbers were allowing a TD in the red zone over 50% the first four games. The last four it’s down to over 38%. Run defense has got better also.

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4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

You can’t really put a asterisk on defensive stats or say it’s cherry picking. Houston allowed more points to KC with a banged up Mahomes. You could cherry pick or put a asterisk on every teams stats. That’s not fair. When the team does something good you always want to say its because of something else then giving them credit.

 

I believe the numbers were allowing a TD in the red zone over 50% the first four games. The last four it’s down to over 38%. Run defense has got better also.

Chloe, love your passion, but you really have to look deeper at things, and stop embracing every click bait tweet. And yes, they're cherry picking surface data without looking at the context.

 

Let's talk RZ D. First thing you need to ask about our RZ D improving, is "how are the teams in RZ offense that we've played the last couple games"...

 

Pitt is 28th, KC is 27th, and Denver is 26th. So we've played 3 of the worst 7 RZ offenses.... So should we really be surprised our RZ D stats got better? We are at 52% the year, which was greatly reduced by playing sub par RZ Os.

 

Against Houston, our RZ D was good in the 2nd Q, not so good the second half. Even in the 2Q, we really lucked out on the second drive turning into a FG instead of a TD (2 big penalties and a bobble). Not to mention Watson's TD that was nullified due to being "in the grasp".

 

And on the topic of KC, and KC/Houston... You simply can't ignore when a team's identity is 95% a mobile gunslinger and speedy WRs, and that team's QB isn't mobile, and they don't have their 2 speedy WRs... In KC vs Houston, KC had Hill back. You have to take it all into perspective.

 

As far as our rushing D, we played two very bad rushing Os (KC and Pitt). Pitt if you remember was missing their #1 and #2 RBs too. Denver is mediocre. Houston is good and we did a great job at home limiting their rush to 100 yards. We did really well stopping Hyde.

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3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 our D really needs to improve. 

 

IMO, our YPC would be a heck of a lot better if we had more of a passing threat.

 

Should we invest heavily upgrading OL, RB, and all phases of D so we can be a "rushing" team?

Our D will never improve as long as Reich believes what Tony Dungy believed in a defense that speed wins all. So they invested in lighter faster guys and what has it given the Colt so far... A defense that get pushed around. The LB should have never lost the weight.

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He's NEVER invisible.

Too busy talking about how good he is.

I love his energy, i just wishhe could take a couple "humble pills."  He's gotta be the biggest "me" player on the team.

Flamboyant diva is a great description for him.

But i love the guy too.

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39 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

He's NEVER invisible.

Too busy talking about how good he is.

I love his energy, i just wishhe could take a couple "humble pills."  He's gotta be the biggest "me" player on the team.

Flamboyant diva is a great description for him.

But i love the guy too.

 

Agree...I saw the Holder tweet and I thought why is everyone suddenly talking about Ebron and why is Holder trying so hard to carry his water. And then I saw all of the politickin he's been doing in the media. Definitely sounds like a "me" player. He was basking it in last year (after falling into a perfect situation)...and now he is just a guy on this version of the team...doesn't like it that much...so he's pouting. 

 

I get where he is coming from...it probably would be a sharp adjustment to make...but just keep quiet and play ball. I am guessing his chances of being here next year are dwindling...and I am perfectly fine with that.

 

Interestingly though...regarding the debate that the offense is being limited for/by JB...here is a player on that offense basically validating that.

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42 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Agree...I saw the Holder tweet and I thought why is everyone suddenly talking about Ebron and why is Holder trying so hard to carry his water. And then I saw all of the politickin he's been doing in the media. Definitely sounds like a "me" player. He was basking it in last year (after falling into a perfect situation)...and now he is just a guy on this version of the team...doesn't like it that much...so he's pouting. 

 

I get where he is coming from...it probably would be a sharp adjustment to make...but just keep quiet and play ball. I am guessing his chances of being here next year are dwindling...and I am perfectly fine with that.

 

Interestingly though...regarding the debate that the offense is being limited for/by JB...here is a player on that offense basically validating that.

Actually he didn’t validate that about JB. In the 1075fan story it had pretty much the entire convo. He talked about JB and how much he loves him and said JB was only doing what he has been instructed to do.  He even mentions it’s not about his numbers. He mentions how him being on the field opens things up for other players because he gets double teamed. Doyle and Rogers TD Sunday were because he got double teamed. He is a competitor and he mentioned it’s hard to not be on the field more and watch his team mates lose. He also mentioned how if he was out there more the scores might be as close. He is one of the best playmakers he needs to be in the field at least 60% of the plays.  Especially when all the WR are injured. 

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Chloe, love your passion, but you really have to look deeper at things, and stop embracing every click bait tweet. And yes, they're cherry picking surface data without looking at the context.

 

Let's talk RZ D. First thing you need to ask about our RZ D improving, is "how are the teams in RZ offense that we've played the last couple games"...

 

Pitt is 28th, KC is 27th, and Denver is 26th. So we've played 3 of the worst 7 RZ offenses.... So should we really be surprised our RZ D stats got better? We are at 52% the year, which was greatly reduced by playing sub par RZ Os.

 

Against Houston, our RZ D was good in the 2nd Q, not so good the second half. Even in the 2Q, we really lucked out on the second drive turning into a FG instead of a TD (2 big penalties and a bobble). Not to mention Watson's TD that was nullified due to being "in the grasp".

 

And on the topic of KC, and KC/Houston... You simply can't ignore when a team's identity is 95% a mobile gunslinger and speedy WRs, and that team's QB isn't mobile, and they don't have their 2 speedy WRs... In KC vs Houston, KC had Hill back. You have to take it all into perspective.

 

As far as our rushing D, we played two very bad rushing Os (KC and Pitt). Pitt if you remember was missing their #1 and #2 RBs too. Denver is mediocre. Houston is good and we did a great job at home limiting their rush to 100 yards. We did really well stopping Hyde.

Every time the team does something good you always want to put a asterisk on it. The team will never be the reason they do something well in your eyes. You will always  say it was because of this or that. I can do that to every teams statistics.

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Why would Ebron want to be more involved when he is not good at catching the ball? If you cannot trust him, you cannot play him. 

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Another note on the defense. They actually only gave up 19 to the Steelers. The other was the INT. They had only one actual full drive where they scored a TD. The others were short fields due to the colts mistakes.  

 

So we can ignore al of NE stats because they have played trash teams. Ok gotcha.

5 minutes ago, Pacergeek said:

Why would Ebron want to be more involved when he is not good at catching the ball? If you cannot trust him, you cannot play him. 

He has had one bad game.  I don’t think it has been a issue.

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9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Chloe, love your passion, but you really have to look deeper at things, and stop embracing every click bait tweet. And yes, they're cherry picking surface data without looking at the context.

 

I admire your persistence but you know the MO at work here... 

 

28lw81.jpg

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Actually he didn’t validate that about JB. In the 1075fan story it had pretty much the entire convo. He talked about JB and how much he loves him and said JB was only doing what he has been instructed to do.  He even mentions it’s not about his numbers. He mentions how him being on the field opens things up for other players because he gets double teamed. Doyle and Rogers TD Sunday were because he got double teamed. He is a competitor and he mentioned it’s hard to not be on the field more and watch his team mates lose. He also mentioned how if he was out there more the scores might be as close. He is one of the best playmakers he needs to be in the field at least 60% of the plays.  Especially when all the WR are injured. 

 

So you agree with me then? Because that's what I basically said. 

 

Here is the quote again:

 

"That’s my brother," Ebron said of Brissett. "But what he’s bound by and what he’s doing is what he’s doing. Doesn’t change our relationship at all. He’s got to be pro, and I gotta be a pro. If me being a professional is going out there and making the best of whatever I got, then that’s what is. But am I frustrated if it is a little bit (less than I want)?  Absolutely."

 

I don't see any other way to interpret what he said...the offense (or at the very least Ebron's involvement in it) is being limited by or for JB...which some here have been arguing.  

 

Ebron's a good weapon...but he's not this elite weapon that is being held back by lack of playing time. When he's on the field...he target share is high. But Reich wants a strong run game and a versatile offense...and Ebron not being able to block doesn't really serve that right now. Doyle does...and he's healthy this year. Like Nyheim Hines...Ebron has a specific role.

 

Plus, Ebron is dropping balls at a league-leading rate (12.9%)...so he's somewhat difficult to trust (for Reich or JB).

 

I get where he is coming from...and that's he a competitor...but things have changed this season. IF Ebron was saying these quotes on another team...I think many people here would call him a "me first" player. 

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I think theres more trouble on this locker room than is being let on.

 

The healthy scratches, young players not developing, veteran(s) underperforming, 2 of 3 losses primarily on special teams, mental errors on the field, a qb that seems to struggle getting thru his progressions (you cant tell me this passing offense doesn't look like it's got the reigns on) the constant stress of tight games, now we're starting to hear it publicly.

 

Maybe I'm still just down after the last couple weeks but it feels, and I stress it's mostly a "feeling".  That this "tight group" is coming apart a little.

 

They should be hitting their stride at 7-1 instead they look like they're stuck in neutral at 5-3 and confidence/optimism seems much lower than at the beginning of the season.  This weekend's game will be very telling.

 

Maybe nothing to it,  just something I've been thinking about for a couple weeks........

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8 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Every time the team does something good you always want to put a asterisk on it. The team will never be the reason they do something well in your eyes. You will always  say it was because of this or that. I can do that to every teams statistics.

We do a lot of things well and I am complimentary of those things. I just cringe to see lazy and misleading tweets and such without any type of context. 

 

Is it not fair to point out that 3 of the last 4 teams we've played are among the worst in RZ O? If people are suckered into believing that our D is some RZ beast, then what happens when we play a good RZ O team, and we sheet the bed... Then we have another round of stupid hot takes about how bad our D has regressed, when in reality they are average or slightly above average.

 

It's better to be realistic and happy with sustained and consistent performance, than have faux optimism based on lazy stats, that is dashed consistently. 

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7 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

I admire your persistence but you know the MO at work here... 

 

28lw81.jpg

LOL. I know, I know.... It takes a little longer, maybe a lot longer, but I do see her coming around a bit on some of the narratives. 

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59 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LOL. I know, I know.... It takes a little longer, maybe a lot longer, but I do see her coming around a bit on some of the narratives. 

No I think people don’t really read comments through. I have never said JB doesn’t have some issues  I just don’t think it’s all on him. There are a lot of factors that go into the offense struggling.  WR injuries. Young WR, ect. Also what we don’t know is how much of the conservative game is in Reich. JB is just one piece of the  problem. . I think considering  the situation this team was thrown into its just better then what I thought it would. If we can avoid any chaos going into next season I can see the offense improving. This season is a lot  of getting to know each other by the players.

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31 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

No I think people don’t really read comments through. I have never said JB doesn’t have some issues  I just don’t think it’s all on him. There are a lot of factors that go into the offense struggling.  WR injuries. Young WR, ect. Also what we don’t know is how much of the conservative game is in Reich. JB is just one piece of the  problem. . I think considering  the situation this team was thrown into its just better then what I thought it would. If we can avoid any chaos going into next season I can see the offense improving. This season is a lot  of getting to know each other by the players.

 

I think what most folks fear, is deficiencies in the areas of "natural" and "fundamental". And some of those (like vision and processing), aren't typically things that improve a lot, because they are more natural than learned. I get that he's not played a lot, but he's also not a rook that should be struggling with the same basic things he did in college. Reich may be hampering his long game, but he's done a lot (play calling, scheme, personnel) to give JB every advantage and take him along slow. We have plenty of proven weapons still healthy.

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30 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I think what most folks fear, is deficiencies in the areas of "natural" and "fundamental". And some of those (like vision and processing), aren't typically things that improve a lot, because they are more natural than learned. I get that he's not played a lot, but he's also not a rook that should be struggling with the same basic things he did in college. Reich may be hampering his long game, but he's done a lot (play calling, scheme, personnel) to give JB every advantage and take him along slow. We have plenty of proven weapons still healthy.

Well here is the good news. He is good enough and this team is good enough we have time to let his contract play out and get some more weapons healthy and more experience. We have  time to keep building this team around him.  We can win with him and let the process play out.  At least we aren’t in a position where we just have to go get any QB out there because he is so bad. I don’t have a issues pointing out flaws. I just have a issue from some saying everything is his fault. All in all he is doing a pretty dang good job considering the situation.  We thought we had another veteran WR and he gets hurt the first game and suddenly two guys you wanted to take slow have to play more.

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EastStreet and Chloe, it’s been a true honor to watch your Point Counterpoint about this topic. Heck, I thought I was the ultimate Colt’s fan on the planet. I’m objective, I’m clearly not! Be my guest and keep the extremely entertaining dialogue  going, your views are worth the price of admission. At the end of the day, “Life is Short!”

Go Blue!!

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1 hour ago, TrueBlue4ever said:

EastStreet and Chloe, it’s been a true honor to watch your Point Counterpoint about this topic. Heck, I thought I was the ultimate Colt’s fan on the planet. I’m objective, I’m clearly not! Be my guest and keep the extremely entertaining dialogue  going, your views are worth the price of admission. At the end of the day, “Life is Short!”

Go Blue!!

 

facts.jpg

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12 hours ago, Sumo63 said:

I think theres more trouble on this locker room than is being let on.

 

The healthy scratches, young players not developing, veteran(s) underperforming, 2 of 3 losses primarily on special teams, mental errors on the field, a qb that seems to struggle getting thru his progressions (you cant tell me this passing offense doesn't look like it's got the reigns on) the constant stress of tight games, now we're starting to hear it publicly.

 

Maybe I'm still just down after the last couple weeks but it feels, and I stress it's mostly a "feeling".  That this "tight group" is coming apart a little.

 

They should be hitting their stride at 7-1 instead they look like they're stuck in neutral at 5-3 and confidence/optimism seems much lower than at the beginning of the season.  This weekend's game will be very telling.

 

Maybe nothing to it,  just something I've been thinking about for a couple weeks........

 

I hear ya brother.  Pre season, we had high hopes and were projected as a super bowl contender, Andrew opted out and things went south.  Every team starts the season with the hope of winning the big prize, it just seems like the life was sucked out of this team before the season started.  We have played well enough to have a respectable record the first half of the season, but we have been out played on both sides of the line in games we should have won.

 

I really think we have an issue in the locker room.  He had a monster season last year, but so far this year he has essentially disappeared, and now he is complaining about playing time?  This has a serious effect on the whole team.  In my opinion when players start reading their own press clippings, and thinking they are more important than the team, they become a cancer that has to go.  Sorry Eric, but you are not all that.

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46 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

 

I hear ya brother.  Pre season, we had high hopes and were projected as a super bowl contender, Andrew opted out and things went south.  Every team starts the season with the hope of winning the big prize, it just seems like the life was sucked out of this team before the season started.  We have played well enough to have a respectable record the first half of the season, but we have been out played on both sides of the line in games we should have won.

 

I really think we have an issue in the locker room.  He had a monster season last year, but so far this year he has essentially disappeared, and now he is complaining about playing time?  This has a serious effect on the whole team.  In my opinion when players start reading their own press clippings, and thinking they are more important than the team, they become a cancer that has to go.  Sorry Eric, but you are not all that.

I think that's a little harsh on EE. He's not one of my favorite players, but I can understand how he feels. Going from 70ish% of snaps and leading all TE (and second among TEs and WRs) in receiving TDs, to getting almost half the snaps and seeing his team look below average on O and in the passing game should make him unhappy. 

 

Let's be honest. He's a vertical/detached TE that is not being used because JB struggles with vertical seam routes, not to mention we have to use a blocking TE more because of JB's high time to throw. That, and we're running it more to bring JB along slowly, and need a blocking TE. Our O has changed in many ways to fit JB, and simply put, those changes haven't been good for WRs and vertical TEs. It's also made it harder on the RBs and OL..... 

 

It is what it is, but I'd be disappointed in EE if he wasn't unhappy. You can criticize him for airing laundry, but it really wasn't a bad rant and didn't throw anyone under the bus.

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Yeah he even mentioned how much he loved the organization. It might of been different if he had talked to the media first but he had already talked to coach Reich. Reich even mentioned yesterday how he has frequent meetings with players all the time. I don’t even think he really wants the ball more. He just wants to play more so he can help his team.

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8 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I think that's a little harsh on EE. He's not one of my favorite players, but I can understand how he feels. Going from 70ish% of snaps and leading all TE (and second among TEs and WRs) in receiving TDs, to getting almost half the snaps and seeing his team look below average on O and in the passing game should make him unhappy. 

 

Let's be honest. He's a vertical/detached TE that is not being used because JB struggles with vertical seam routes, not to mention we have to use a blocking TE more because of JB's high time to throw. That, and we're running it more to bring JB along slowly, and need a blocking TE. Our O has changed in many ways to fit JB, and simply put, those changes haven't been good for WRs and vertical TEs. It's also made it harder on the RBs and OL..... 

 

It is what it is, but I'd be disappointed in EE if he wasn't unhappy. You can criticize him for airing laundry, but it really wasn't a bad rant and didn't throw anyone under the bus.

 

I do get where he is coming from...he wants his snaps and (especially) his RZ looks back. But I don’t really want to hear about it in the media. The guy really hasn’t played to the level he was at last year...when he’s on the field.

 

Someone on Reddit said they heard that Ebron was considering holding out before this season to get his big deal. I am not one to throw out baseless rumors...but it doesn’t sound completely outlandish at this point...and it would speak to his current priorities. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, shastamasta said:

 

I do get where he is coming from...he wants his snaps and (especially) his RZ looks back. But I don’t really want to hear about it in the media. The guy really hasn’t played to the level he was at last year...when he’s on the field.

 

Someone on Reddit said they heard that Ebron was considering holding out before this season to get his big deal. I am not one to throw out baseless rumors...but it doesn’t sound completely outlandish at this point...and it would speak to his current priorities. 

 

He had a drop issue last year, and he got the same snap allotment in games with Doyle healthy, so honestly can't say he hasn't played to the level of last year. He has almost half the snaps of Doyle, but still has more yards and TDs than Doyle. And Ebron draws a lot more doubles than Doyle.

 

And it's a business. Teams cut players all the time, so I don't blame players for wanting to get theirs. I don't like holdouts, but I understand. And more importantly, it never happened (rumor or not).

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On 11/5/2019 at 1:05 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Here is my dilemma, in reviewing the snap counts for the year so far, our Pro-Bowl tight end from a year ago has roughly 185 less snaps than Jack Doyle. Ok, I can understand that I guess because Jack is steady and was a Pro- Bowler 2 years ago. Now the best part, Mr. Ebron has actually played less snaps then Dion Cain!!

I would love to know how many he got this past Sunday, because the trend appears to be less and less. 

His drops have cost him playing time for sure, my question is this, Is it all performance related ?? 

Ebron is over-rated and over-paid.

He is probably out of here next year.

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So you are solidly in the Discard Pile! I think the majority on the thread believe he can make a difference down the stretch of this season. Just being a decoy might help us generate some offense. 

I really do not care about next year, as I see a 2nd round draft pick being devoted to a pass catching, blocking Tight end. Let’s see what happens. Go Blue!

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On 11/5/2019 at 1:05 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Here is my dilemma, in reviewing the snap counts for the year so far, our Pro-Bowl tight end from a year ago has roughly 185 less snaps than Jack Doyle. Ok, I can understand that I guess because Jack is steady and was a Pro- Bowler 2 years ago. Now the best part, Mr. Ebron has actually played less snaps then Dion Cain!!

I would love to know how many he got this past Sunday, because the trend appears to be less and less. 

His drops have cost him playing time for sure, my question is this, Is it all performance related ?? 

Ebron has inconsistent hands point blank drops the easy ones and catches the hard ones 

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On 11/5/2019 at 8:04 PM, TrueBlue4ever said:

Frank and Nick!

 

Put Ebron on the field more!!

Is he soft? Yes

Does he run great routes? No

Does he block well? No

Does he catch the ball? Ummm, Yes, he has a top 5 play through mid season. 58% catch rate

Does he draw double teams and cause nightmarish matchups? Yes

Does he clown around to much during practice? IDK 

Is he going to be here next year? No

With all that said, we need Eric Ebron to step up the rest of the year! You have a lot of fans Eric that believe in you. 

 

Well, he got his playing time ladies and gentlemen! At the end of the day, please, please rewatch the game and just watch Eric Ebron’s game. 

I am clearly not a fan of his, so please objectively look at his performance. What you will see is a player that deserves to be cut. If Adam goes, Ebron should go!! His pompous attitude towards the crowd when he did make a catch was pathetic. By the way, he lived up to his 58% catch to target ratio again today. Soft beyond belief, he is deeply entrenched in the locker room in a bad way. His smiles are fake and I can’t wait to see this glorified Diva be gone!

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Ebron is just way too inconsistent.  That's the thing that just eats me up.  

The talent is there but you just never know when this dude is going to 

catch the ball consistently throughout a game.  Sometimes I almost wish

we would have gotten rid of him and kept Hale Hentges.  It just drives me

crazy!

 

  Colts | Eric Ebron draws 12 targets    Sun Nov 10, 09:57 PM

Indianapolis Colts TE Eric Ebron caught five of his 12 targets for 56 yards in 16-12 loss to the Miami Dolphins in Week 10.

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Eric Ebron player page

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