State of the Franchise

[Biggz21]

Question Coltsnation with the compiling injuries that we deal with every year just like any other team, when does it become overbearingly stubborn to "stick to the process" and solely trust in draft capital, vs bringing in proven players who can help you? They (colts organization) had to know TY was hurt and would miss significant time why not attempt to make a move to bring in another weapon? Our offense essentially has 1 playmaker. Defensively we continue to healthy scratch Quincy Wilson if he's not good enough to start with Desir being out why didn't we trade for a capable corner? Our philosophy is very wishy-washy and I don't think it's the way to build a Championship contender just my venting 2 cents. Chris Ballard always preaches competition and the roster will always look to get better and be a revolving door I don't see that. I see him harboring draft capital and signing random Defensive tackles off the street.
#Practicewhatyoupreach

[BigQungus]

17 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Question Coltsnation with the compiling injuries that we deal with every year just like any other team, when does it become overbearingly stubborn to "stick to the process" and solely trust in draft capital, vs bringing in proven players who can help you? They (colts organization) had to know TY was hurt and would miss significant time why not attempt to make a move to bring in another weapon? Our offense essentially has 1 playmaker. Defensively we continue to healthy scratch Quincy Wilson if he's not good enough to start with Desir being out why didn't we trade for a capable corner? Our philosophy is very wishy-washy and I don't think it's the way to build a Championship contender just my venting 2 cents. Chris Ballard always preaches competition and the roster will always look to get better and be a revolving door I don't see that. I see him harboring draft capital and signing random Defensive tackles off the street.
#Practicewhatyoupreach

 

He got hurt on Wednesday, so no they didn't know that.

[Myles]

21 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Question Coltsnation with the compiling injuries that we deal with every year just like any other team, when does it become overbearingly stubborn to "stick to the process" and solely trust in draft capital, vs bringing in proven players who can help you? They (colts organization) had to know TY was hurt and would miss significant time why not attempt to make a move to bring in another weapon? Our offense essentially has 1 playmaker. Defensively we continue to healthy scratch Quincy Wilson if he's not good enough to start with Desir being out why didn't we trade for a capable corner? Our philosophy is very wishy-washy and I don't think it's the way to build a Championship contender just my venting 2 cents. Chris Ballard always preaches competition and the roster will always look to get better and be a revolving door I don't see that. I see him harboring draft capital and signing random Defensive tackles off the street.
#Practicewhatyoupreach

Perhaps they should sign Trent Cole and Andre Johnson.

I would have liked to see the Colts trade for Fitzpatrick, but I don't blame Ballard for not bringing in a WR.  We had Hilton, Pascal, Rogers, Ebron, Doyle Campbell and Cain.   Funchess due back soon as well.  Hindsight, maybe it would have been nice to grab someone.  Ballard hasn't been perfect, but I much prefer his method to most others.   

[Valpo2004]

Honestly I'm glad Ballard didn't make a move there.  

 

Look at the weapons that where traded.  Emmanual Sanders who is 32 was traded for a 3rd and a 4th.  

 

Ballard has gotten Okereke, Willis, Hines, Mack and Stewart in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  You want to trade away the probability of getting a player of that caliber at age 22 away for a receiver who might play for us for 2 or 3 years tops.  Especially when he's going to come in and not know the offense?

 

Mohamed Sanu who is 30 was traded for a 2nd.  This guy is a career 2nd or 3rd receiver.  Ballard has drafted Leonard, Smith, Turay, Lewis, Ya-Sin, Bangou, Campbell.  You want to throw away the likelyhood of getting that kind of talent at age 22 for some temporary help?  Campbell for the record showed what he could do for the offense, he just needs to hold the ball better.  

 

Stand pat, TY is only out 3 or 4 weeks anyways, not the whole season.  We arn't in win now mode.  This team isn't winning a SB.  Don't throw good draft picks away chasing wins in a season that you know you won't be making a deep playoff run regardless.  

[Biggz21]

I agree don't bring in old washed up guys. Granted this is Cains legit 1st season he looks like a bust to me I don't see our skill position guys to be that elite or hard to stop outside of Hilton

[Biggz21]

13 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

He got hurt on Wednesday, so no they didn't know that.

Understood so they were super confident in Cain Roger's Pascal that those guys would be able to uplift this franchise vs other teams (elite) wide reciever groups that's laughable

[MPStack]

Kinda hard to address everything in three years. Have to remember a lot changed with schemes and coaching changes after 2017.
 

However, the Colts still made playoffs in 2018 and most likely this season. Quite an achievement after losing your franchise signal caller. I think that speaks volumes about Mr Ballard. Is he perfect? Of course not, but I believe he has a philosophy on building a team and sticks to it. 
 

I’m glad this team is no longer in salary cap hell. Ballard has done well accumulating picks and drafting well.
 

Be patient, the Colts are headed in the right direction. Look at Cleveland, lots of CAP space,  draft picks, splash trades and where are they? 2-6. 
 

 

[Biggz21]

3 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Honestly I'm glad Ballard didn't make a move there.  

 

Look at the weapons that where traded.  Emmanual Sanders who is 32 was traded for a 3rd and a 4th.  

 

Ballard has gotten Okereke, Willis, Hines, Mack and Stewart in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  You want to trade away the probability of getting a player of that caliber at age 22 away for a receiver who might play for us for 2 or 3 years tops.  Especially when he's going to come in and not know the offense?

 

Mohamed Sanu who is 30 was traded for a 2nd.  This guy is a career 2nd or 3rd receiver.  Ballard has drafted Leonard, Smith, Turay, Lewis, Ya-Sin, Bangou, Campbell.  You want to throw away the likelyhood of getting that kind of talent at age 22 for some temporary help?

 

Stand pat, TY is only out 3 or 4 weeks anyways, not the whole season.  We arn't in win now mode.  This team isn't winning a SB.  Don't throw good draft picks away chasing wins in a season that you know you won't be making a deep playoff run regardless.  

Agreed,  but tell me in the 100 year history of the nfl which nfl team has had sustained success and superbowl victories with youth? You need proven commodities to show the youth how to win is all I'm saying we can have the youngest team every assembled but what is that gonna get us? Early exits and losses to lower tier teams...

[BigQungus]

2 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Understood so they were super confident in Cain Roger's Pascal that those guys would be able to uplift this franchise vs other teams (elite) wide reciever groups that's laughable

 

That was past the deadline, so they couldn't do anything at that point

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Understood so they were super confident in Cain Roger's Pascal that those guys would be able to uplift this franchise vs other teams (elite) wide reciever groups that's laughable

The WR group was not the issue yesterday.

[Biggz21]

1 minute ago, MPStack said:

Kinda hard to address everything in three years. Have to remember a lot changed with schemes and coaching changes after 2017.
 

However, the Colts still made playoffs in 2018 and most likely this season. Quite an achievement after losing your franchise signal caller. I think that speaks volumes about Mr Ballard. Is he perfect? Of course not, but I believe he has a philosophy on building a team and sticks to it. 
 

I’m glad this team is no longer in salary cap hell. Ballard has done well accumulating picks and drafting well.
 

Be patient, the Colts are headed in the right direction. Look at Cleveland, lots of CAP space,  draft picks, splash trades and where are they? 2-6. 
 

 

So let me understand your premise. You believe if the colts would have acquired O'Dell Beckham Jr and others we would be a 2-6 team? So adding proven elite players to your roster makes you worse? The Browns are an anomaly because they don't have a legit qb and poor coach give us 4 of the talented players they have with our exceptional coaching I guarantee we are better off with the subpar playmakers we have.

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

The WR group was not the issue yesterday.

#lacesout

 

But 6 drops isn't an issue? Ok....

[Biggz21]

3 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

That was past the deadline, so they couldn't do anything at that point

My point exactly up to the deadline you look at this roster and say to yourself yeah we can contend for a superbowl with these guys? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Biggz21 said:

So let me understand your premise. You believe if the colts would have acquired O'Dell Beckham Jr and others we would be a 2-6 team? So adding proven elite players to your roster makes you worse? The Browns are an anomaly because they don't have a legit qb and poor coach give us 4 of the talented players they have with our exceptional coaching I guarantee we are better off with the subpar playmakers we have.

#lacesout

 

But 6 drops isn't an issue? Ok....

Giving up 3 pts before the half. The INT. Turnovers is why we lost this game and bad refs and penalties. We were driving the field just fine. We actually had a really balanced game between the run and the pass.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Biggz21 said:

My point exactly up to the deadline you look at this roster and say to yourself yeah we can contend for a superbowl with these guys? 

Ballard doesn’t think we are that close to a SB yet. That’s why he isn’t making trades. We aren’t where the patriots or 49’ers yet.

[Valpo2004]

3 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

I agree don't bring in old washed up guys. Granted this is Cains legit 1st season he looks like a bust to me I don't see our skill position guys to be that elite or hard to stop outside of Hilton

 

Cain was drafted in the 6th round.  He is bust proof.  

 

Bust is a term that means a player failed to live up to the expectations of their draft status.  6th round and 7th round picks are cut in camp all of the time.  Heck the Colts cut a 4th round pick in camp after Ballard's first draft.  

 

A person can only be a bust if they where drafted in the first 4 rounds.  Cain was never expected to be good.  He might have gotten a lot of attention on here.  

[Biggz21]

Cain was praised to be #2 to Hilton so he hasn't lived up to any expectations to even have been drafted is bust caliber. "Next man up" not that man lol

[Valpo2004]

11 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Agreed,  but tell me in the 100 year history of the nfl which nfl team has had sustained success and superbowl victories with youth? You need proven commodities to show the youth how to win is all I'm saying we can have the youngest team every assembled but what is that gonna get us? Early exits and losses to lower tier teams...

 

We do have vet talent on this team.  Castanzo, Hilton, Houston 

[Valpo2004]

7 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Cain was praised to be #2 to Hilton so he hasn't lived up to any expectations to even have been drafted is bust caliber. "Next man up" not that man lol

 

Who said that Cain was going to be the #2 to Hilton?  Some random fans?  Fans like to play up or over-state player's potential.  Cain was a victim of this.  No NFL GM ever said Cain was a legit #2 receiver.  

 

Not very many #2 receivers are drafted in the 6th round.  Those that are vastly out performed their expectations.  If someone saw legit #2 talent out of Cain he would have been drafted 2 or 3 rounds earlier.  

[MPStack]

4 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Cain was praised to be #2 to Hilton so he hasn't lived up to any expectations to even have been drafted is bust caliber. "Next man up" not that man lol

Cain fooled a lot of fans on the Forum, but he is in fact a 6th Rd pick, so he’s not a bust. 
 

 

[gspdx]

I find it interesting that the thought here is we need offensive playmakers when the Colts should have scored 30 points probably?  Missed a PAT and then tried to "catch up" with a missed 2 point conversion, and then a missed field goal.  And that was with a backup QB that that is backing up a backup that became our starter.

 

We also gave up a pick 6 and gifted the Steelers a field goal at that end of the second quarter.  

 

I am still willing to let the young guys learn some things about what it takes to win.  

[bhougland]

2 minutes ago, MPStack said:

Cain fooled a lot of fans on the Forum, but he is in fact a 6th Rd pick, so he’s not a bust. 
 

 

 

The only time Cain has looked good is when Chad Kelly was QB.  Take from that what you will, as he made Daurice Fountain look like a world beater.

[Biggz21]

1 minute ago, gspdx said:

I find it interesting that the thought here is we need offensive playmakers when the Colts should have scored 30 points probably?  Missed a PAT and then tried to "catch up" with a missed 2 point conversion, and then a missed field goal.  And that was with a backup QB that that is backing up a backup that became our starter.

 

We also gave up a pick 6 and gifted the Steelers a field goal at that end of the second quarter.  

 

I am still willing to let the young guys learn some things about what it takes to win.  

So how much longer are we willing to bank on cashing in on a Quenton Nelson and Darius Leonard generational talents eventually you hope those guys bring in multiple championships before a 10 year career or become too expensive and we ultimately let them test free agency that's the harsh reality of the Colts organization  Manning, Freeney, Sanders, Mathis, Wayne,Harrison, Brackett etc ultra talented players 1 superbowl win.... 

[MPStack]

Just now, bhougland said:

 

The only time Cain has looked good is when Chad Kelly was QB.  Take from that what you will.

The regular season is all the matters. Training camp and the preseason are meaningless, if you can’t do it when it matters most. Cain absolutely needs replaced.

[richard pallo]

39 minutes ago, BigQungus said:

 

He got hurt on Wednesday, so no they didn't know that.

Wednesday was the straw that broke the camels back.  He has been fighting nagging injuries all season.  It was probably just a matter of time when something bad was going to happen.  

[gspdx]

1 minute ago, Biggz21 said:

So how much longer are we willing to bank on cashing in on a Quenton Nelson and Darius Leonard generational talents eventually you hope those guys bring in multiple championships before a 10 year career or become too expensive and we ultimately let them test free agency that's the harsh reality of the Colts organization  Manning, Freeney, Sanders, Mathis, Wayne,Harrison, Brackett etc ultra talented players 1 superbowl win.... 

 

Longer than I am willing to believe some aging "hired gun" is going to come in and save us from ourselves.  Your statement above speaks the truth of the situation: It doesn't matter how many ultra talented players you have on the team you might not win.  

 

We lost our starting QB yesterday, missed our #1 WR, our center was out, and yet we still beat ourselves!  We should have one that game.

[Valpo2004]

3 minutes ago, gspdx said:

I find it interesting that the thought here is we need offensive playmakers when the Colts should have scored 30 points probably?  Missed a PAT and then tried to "catch up" with a missed 2 point conversion, and then a missed field goal.  And that was with a backup QB that that is backing up a backup that became our starter.

 

We also gave up a pick 6 and gifted the Steelers a field goal at that end of the second quarter.  

 

I am still willing to let the young guys learn some things about what it takes to win.  

 

This team knows how to win.  A lot of things went wrong yesterday.  They had some fumbles from people who are usually secure with the ball.  They lost the starting QB to injury, they had some bad calls go against them (Although I would grant at least one did go in our favor.)  In the end they still had a chance to win but the holder screwed up the hold and held laces in and Vinny shanked the kick.  

 

It happens.  The Pats just lost to the Ravens.  

[ColtV]

5 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

 

Who said that Cain was going to be the #2 to Hilton?  Some random fans?  Fans like to play up or over-state player's potential.  Cain was a victim of this.  No NFL GM ever said Cain was a legit #2 receiver.  

 

Not very many #2 receivers are drafted in the 6th round.  Those that are vastly out performed their expectations.  If someone saw legit #2 talent out of Cain he would have been drafted 2 or 3 rounds earlier.  

Quite a few fans took the praise that Cain received from the coaching staff last pre-season as evidence that the front office found a diamond in the rough. There was even quite a big of revisionist history as to why his draft stock had him as a 6th round pick. But you are right, no one should have seen him as a legit #2, not at this point in his career anyway. 

 

The fact is that the receiving corps has not been good for a long time. 

[Mr.Debonair]

I think Cain is lacking confidence due to a lack of involvement and looks from the QB. Yes it’s his job to catch the ball but when your first shot is a crucial 3rd Down, you’re goin to be pressing. Need to get him going with a few quick hitches or something like that screen we tried to throw to Rogers who dropped it.

 

We need to find a way to push the ball deep more. Teams can play us tighter when there is no threat of a deep pass. That’s even with TY in the game

Ballard needs to upgrade the right side of the O-Line. I’ve seen enough from Glow. I think we can upgrade there or kick Smith inside.

 

[Biggz21]

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

 

This team knows how to win.  A lot of things went wrong yesterday.  They had some fumbles from people who are usually secure with the ball.  They lost the starting QB to injury, they had some bad calls go against them (Although I would grant at least one did go in our favor.)  In the end they still had a chance to win but the holder screwed up the hold and held laces in and Vinny shanked the kick.  

 

It happens.  The Pats just lost to the Ravens.  

I agree 100% I'm not arguing that I'm just saying the way we've lost games this season that's not championship football we have to beat teams that we should beat and stop playing down to our opponents. The Broncos game should not have been that close. All I'm saying is we need to improve the season is nearly over and the playoffs are coming fast it'd be nice to continue watching the colts into February instead of being home in early January...

[PeterBowman]

Hmmm state of franchise. 

 

Year 2 of complete team overhaul ( I know it's technically year 3, but I'm not counting the last Pagano year)

2nd year head coach and 2 2nd year coordinators

Many 1st and 2nd year players getting major playing time/starting

Back-up QB in only 2nd year of really starting

Injuries to many important players on roster and they've missed multiple games/out for the year/or retired abruptly. 

HOF kicker having worst year of career

Division probably toughest in league record wise through first half of season

 

Still 5-3 and in drivers seat for division if they can beat Houston again in a few weeks. And at worst, in play for a wild card. 

 

I'd say they're doing pretty well overall....not elite Super Bowl contender yet, but they're getting close. 

 

 

 

 

 

[ColtV]

So here is the big question: What if the Colts lose to Miami? To me, these last two games show that unless this team performs at a high level all the way around(limiting penalties, no turnovers, high efficiencies on 3rd down and red zone) then we aren't going to win. And while that can certainly be said for most teams in the nfl, but our victory margins show that this team's talent level isn't good enough for them to have an off game. If the Colts lose in Miami, I think this season is in real trouble. 

[Biggz21]

1 minute ago, PeterBowman said:

Hmmm state of franchise. 

 

Year 2 of complete team overhaul ( I know it's technically year 3, but I'm not counting the last Pagano year)

2nd year head coach and 2 2nd year coordinators

Many 1st and 2nd year players getting major playing time/starting

Back-up QB in only 2nd year of really starting

Injuries to many important players on roster and they've missed multiple games/out for the year/or retired abruptly. 

HOF kicker having worst year of career

Division probably toughest in league record wise through first half of season

 

Still 5-3 and in drivers seat for division if they can beat Houston again in a few weeks. And at worst, in play for a wild card. 

 

I'd say they're doing pretty well overall....not elite Super Bowl contender yet, but they're getting close. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not there yet but we're getting close is the mentality of a team who has accepted defeat and is ok with mediocrity. I've been content with that philosophy far too long change it up how bout stop with all the excuses and execute and become a contender! How fun is it for the colts to be an afterthought year after year...

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, ColtV said:

So here is the big question: What if the Colts lose to Miami?

 

if colts win then they will be #1 in the division again through a tie breaker 

 

if we lose, we have the texans next and can tie the division if we win that one.  Miami is a should win game, but not must win in the standings 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, ColtV said:

So here is the big question: What if the Colts lose to Miami? To me, these last two games show that unless this team performs at a high level all the way around(limiting penalties, no turnovers, high efficiencies on 3rd down and red zone) then we aren't going to win. And while that can certainly be said for most teams in the nfl, but our victory margins show that this team's talent level isn't good enough for them to have an off game. If the Colts lose in Miami, I think this season is in real trouble. 

The season is over if we lose to Miami.

[richard pallo]

31 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Honestly I'm glad Ballard didn't make a move there.  

 

Look at the weapons that where traded.  Emmanual Sanders who is 32 was traded for a 3rd and a 4th.  

 

Ballard has gotten Okereke, Willis, Hines, Mack and Stewart in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  You want to trade away the probability of getting a player of that caliber at age 22 away for a receiver who might play for us for 2 or 3 years tops.  Especially when he's going to come in and not know the offense?

 

Mohamed Sanu who is 30 was traded for a 2nd.  This guy is a career 2nd or 3rd receiver.  Ballard has drafted Leonard, Smith, Turay, Lewis, Ya-Sin, Bangou, Campbell.  You want to throw away the likelyhood of getting that kind of talent at age 22 for some temporary help?  Campbell for the record showed what he could do for the offense, he just needs to hold the ball better.  

 

Stand pat, TY is only out 3 or 4 weeks anyways, not the whole season.  We arn't in win now mode.  This team isn't winning a SB.  Don't throw good draft picks away chasing wins in a season that you know you won't be making a deep playoff run regardless.  

Two young proven receivers were also available who are playing for awful teams.   Parker from the Dolphins and Anderson from the Jets.  Both better than any WR on the team not named TY.  That said Ballard does not believe this team can win now.  If he thought we were contenders he would have stepped up to the plate and made a move to help them.  His inactivity speaks volumes.  

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, Biggz21 said:

Not there yet but we're getting close is the mentality of a team who has accepted defeat and is ok with mediocrity. I've been content with that philosophy far too long change it up how bout stop with all the excuses and execute and become a contender! How fun is it for the colts to be an afterthought year after year...

were you expecting a trade or something?  im kind of upset about the kicking game but i dont know of anyone better out there now

 

who were you wanting and for what price?

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Two young proven receivers were also available who are playing for awful teams.   Parker from the Dolphins and Anderson from the Jets.  Both better than any WR on the team not named TY.  That said Ballard does not believe this team can win now.  If he thought we were contenders he would have stepped up to the plate and made a move to help them.  His inactivity speaks volumes.  

i do like parker did the dolphins say anything about shopping him?

[shasta519]

27 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

Honestly I'm glad Ballard didn't make a move there.  

 

Look at the weapons that where traded.  Emmanual Sanders who is 32 was traded for a 3rd and a 4th.  

 

Ballard has gotten Okereke, Willis, Hines, Mack and Stewart in the 3rd and 4th rounds.  You want to trade away the probability of getting a player of that caliber at age 22 away for a receiver who might play for us for 2 or 3 years tops.  Especially when he's going to come in and not know the offense?

 

Mohamed Sanu who is 30 was traded for a 2nd.  This guy is a career 2nd or 3rd receiver.  Ballard has drafted Leonard, Smith, Turay, Lewis, Ya-Sin, Bangou, Campbell.  You want to throw away the likelyhood of getting that kind of talent at age 22 for some temporary help?  Campbell for the record showed what he could do for the offense, he just needs to hold the ball better.  

 

Stand pat, TY is only out 3 or 4 weeks anyways, not the whole season.  We arn't in win now mode.  This team isn't winning a SB.  Don't throw good draft picks away chasing wins in a season that you know you won't be making a deep playoff run regardless.  

 

JMO..but yes...I would gladly give up two of those players (sans Mack) for an impact player for 2-3 years if my team was ready to compete. Basham and Banner were also in that range as well...so there's probably at least a 25% chance that players a bust anyways.

 

SF also got back a 5th round pick (from a team that will likely be picking high)...so it basically offsets the 4th round pick loss (since that late 4th to early/mid 5th round range is already a crapshoot).

 

As for acclimating to the offense, I would say Sanders look pretty good in the SF offense after only two games. I think he would thrive in Reich's offense.

 

Even in the context of this season...I don't think it would have been a bad move. The Sanu deal...I wouldn't have liked though. 

 

[PeterBowman]

it's kinda funny...Ballard has literally been the most transparent GM in recent memory as to what his plan is. He has said on multiple occasions that they want sustained long term success. You don't get that by just throwing away draft picks at players that might only help you for a year or so. Unless you're a team like the Patriots that are trying to win now because their window is almost shut. The Colts window is just now opening. 

[Biggz21]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

were you expecting a trade or something?  im kind of upset about the kicking game but i dont know of anyone better out there now

 

who were you wanting and for what price?

Not necessarily looking for a trade at the kicker position, but how about a guy like Chris Harris Jr. Proven legit man coverage dominant Corner... a legit pass rusher von miller? Ryan Kerrigan? Someone better tha. Chester Roger's, Deon Cain, and Glowinski I know that's wishful thinking but with 40mill+ in cap available are we investing that money in accorn or what?