Jump to content
Indianapolis Colts
Sign in to follow this  
Imgrandojji

Week 9 impressions: Hoyer

Recommended Posts

37 minutes ago, Myles said:

Nope.

He played very well for a backup thrust into a game during it.   Just remember Painter and Sorgi.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to PFF Hoyer had better game than any Brissett game this season. I'd disagree with them about the HOU game, but this is still an interesting observation. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are intangibles that JB would bring that hoyer did not. He would of been better at avoiding sacks and pass protection calls.  Hoyer did great but I think we win with JB.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, shastamasta said:

 

Is that a backhanded compliment? 

Hard to tell from that statement, without knowing his intonation, etc. but knowing how Brissett handles himself I would guess not. He's just a great dude and he gives props to his teammates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, stitches said:

According to PFF Hoyer had better game than any Brissett game this season. I'd disagree with them about the HOU game, but this is still an interesting observation. 

 

I think it shows that the current offense is somewhat plug and play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Hard to tell from that statement, without knowing his intonation, etc. but knowing how Brissett handles himself I would guess not. He's just a great dude and he gives props to his teammates. 

 

Yeah...not his style. But that is him basically saying he intentionally doesn't push the ball down the field at times...so there you have it...from the "horse's mouth."

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I think it shows that the current offense is somewhat plug and play. 

I think it shows how much we are leaving on the table. This offense can be special and should be special. People don't like it when I say it, because they think it gives me some pleasure criticizing Brissett, which I don't, but he does leave throws and a lot of yards on the field. Reich and Siriani are scheming the % out of this offense and this offense has potential to be real good when in full force and not injured. We just need the QB to make quick reads and go through the progression and not hesitate to throw the ball. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Is that a backhanded compliment? 

No he was complimenting him on great throws that he himself might not of made.  How do you even get that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Best our passing game looked because of what?  Because of gameplan or because of Hoyer?  If Hoyer, that's a silly opinion. Go check the stats from this game & Houston & tell me how this was better.  Hoyer threw for 168 yards... 

 

If you're saying game plan, you may have a point because we finally got Campbell to do something.  And JB was 4-5 with for 59 yards.  More yards per attempt & completion.  Had he not gotten injured, we may have seen another 300 yard 4TD game from him.

 

Read my post again.  Where did I make this a comparision between Hoyer and Brissett, which you seem to be surmising.  I don't know the reason, but it was a solid passing game.  Brissett might have done even better, who knows.  But Hoyer did well also.  So overall, I'm not concerned with Hoyer in there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, colt18 said:

 

No one said he had a perfect game, but for a back up thrust into action on the spot, he did pretty good.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

This is such a good point. He wasn’t in long and still had 59 yards. I agree he might of had another 300 yard game.

 

He was in until the 11:00 mark of the 2nd quarter...that's more than 1/4 of the game. I guess it's possible...but he was on pace for season average at that point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Is that a backhanded compliment? 

Yeah, I thought, for a second, he may be referring to that pick 6...

 

But, no, Hoyer came in and definitely made throws Brissett wouldn't make. Hoyer was decisive and fast. He just looked like a statue when in the pocket. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Myles said:

No one said he had a perfect game, but for a back up thrust into action on the spot, he did pretty good.   

That doesn’t mean he isn’t a terrible QB, because he is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just said this in the other thread but I thought Hoyer played great other then the pick-6, which was more of a coverage issue rather then a poorly thrown ball. 

 

I think the offense looked way smoother with Hoyer out there. He was decisive and the intermediate throws he made were something we haven't seen much of this year. That sideline bomb to Pascal was a beautiful throw. I honestly thought the Colts should've let him sling it a little more instead of running on 1st & 2nd. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, cjrulli said:

Just said this in the other thread but I thought Hoyer played great other then the pick-6, which was more of a coverage issue rather then a poorly thrown ball. 

 

I think the offense looked way smoother with Hoyer out there. He was decisive and the intermediate throws he made were something we haven't seen much of this year. That sideline bomb to Pascal was a beautiful throw. I honestly thought the Colts should've let him sling it a little more instead of running on 1st & 2nd. 

Same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, colt18 said:

That doesn’t mean he isn’t a terrible QB, because he is.

No he is not.   He is just not a great starter.   Most back ups are not great starters.   He's a good back up QB though.  I'd take him over a few starters for other teams (Darnold, Dalton, Trubisky, Mariota and maybe Winston and Mayfield).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for Hoyer impressions (or "JB vs Hoyer.....vs Kelly'" as this thread probably should be called)...let me just say that I am not sold on either one.

 

But for weeks now, passing TDs and TD:INT ratio have been the rallying cries of many in favor of JB.

 

Well, Hoyer had 3 passing TDs this game...despite only having passing 168 yards. This was driven by a completely unsustainable TD %...much like JB early in the season. 

 

TD distribution in this system skews to passing TDs...based on playcalling and circumstance. When the Colts get close to the EZ, Reich call pass plays. I think they ran pass plays on something like 70% of their RZ plays Sunday (if you count JB and Hoyer scrambles that were meant to be pass plays).

 

And when he calls runs close to the EZ...the Colts have been one of the worst teams in the NFL at success rate and YPC all season. I don't know why this is...but hopefully they can get it fixed. If they weren't so bad at it...some of those passing TDs would be rushing TDs at this point...and they probably would have run as many pass plays.

 

Regardless, you have two different QBs in the same system with very similar TD and RZ efficiency results. And despite Hoyer's boneheaded throw...his TD:INT ratio was still 3:1...which if extrapolated out to 14 TDs...it's probably like 14:4 or 14:5...vs JB's 14:3. 

 

So my impressions of Hoyer is that the offense was pretty damn similar. That's a good thing short-term...but not long-term.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

As for Hoyer impressions (or "JB vs Hoyer.....vs Kelly'" as this thread probably should be called)...let me just say that I am not sold on either one.

 

But for weeks now, passing TDs and TD:INT ratio have been the rallying cries of many in favor of JB.

 

Well, Hoyer had 3 passing TDs this game...despite only having passing 168 yards. This was driven by a completely unsustainable TD %...much like JB early in the season. 

 

TD distribution in this system skews to passing TDs...based on playcalling and circumstance. When the Colts get close to the EZ, Reich call pass plays. I think they ran pass plays on something like 70% of their RZ plays Sunday (if you count JB and Hoyer scrambles that were meant to be pass plays).

 

And when he calls runs close to the EZ...the Colts have been one of the worst teams in the NFL at success rate and YPC all season. I don't know why this is...but hopefully they can get it fixed. If they weren't so bad at it...some of those passing TDs would be rushing TDs at this point...and they probably would have run as many pass plays.

 

Regardless, you have two different QBs in the same system with very similar TD and RZ efficiency results. And despite Hoyer's boneheaded throw...his TD:INT ratio was still 3:1...which if extrapolated out to 14 TDs...it's probably like 14:4 or 14:5...vs JB's 14:3. 

 

So my impressions of Hoyer is that the offense was pretty damn similar. That's a good thing short-term...but not long-term.

Agree with a lot of what you are saying, but just wanted to warn against drawing too firm of conclusions based on such small samples(especially the Hoyer one). 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Agree with a lot of what you are saying, but just wanted to warn against drawing too firm of conclusions based on such small samples(especially the Hoyer one). 

 

Yeah...I was going to put SSS alert at the beginning...but I didn't mean to draw a definitive conclusion...it was more meant to show yet another data point in a season-long trend. The QB changed...but the outcomes largely stayed the same.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Myles said:

No he is not.   He is just not a great starter.   Most back ups are not great starters.   He's a good back up QB though.  I'd take him over a few starters for other teams (Darnold, Dalton, Trubisky, Mariota and maybe Winston and Mayfield).

:lol:

 

 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Stephen said:

Once we get hilton and funchess  back, keep Campbell  healthy, and pascal our wrs will be better. Cain and Roger's are the weak links 

Rogers was #2 in WR yards last year, and had a better catch % than TY. He's not flashy, but he doesn't suck. There's a reason they kept him over re-signing Inman.

 

We're using Cain wrong. If you watched him in college, you know what his strengths are, and they are not in the short possession game like we are asking him to do. If we had a deep game at all, folks might see him different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, stitches said:

According to PFF Hoyer had better game than any Brissett game this season. I'd disagree with them about the HOU game, but this is still an interesting observation. 

PFF IIRC takes into account opponent. Given Pitt is #2 in turn over differential, top 5 in sacks, etc.. I can see them grading it above Houston who has one of the worst pass defenses in the league. Aside from the INT, very good game. Had the INT not went for 6 the other way, most wouldn't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

If anyone on this team or front office is buying their own hype it's the offensive line. The last two weeks they have been crap vs lesser talent. It takes effort and discipline and I am seeing less of those the last 2 weeks. They better get it together because they're needed if this team is going to make any noise every year. 

 

 

Thank you, I thought I was only one seeing, and saying this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

If anyone on this team or front office is buying their own hype it's the offensive line. The last two weeks they have been crap vs lesser talent. It takes effort and discipline and I am seeing less of those the last 2 weeks. They better get it together because they're needed if this team is going to make any noise every year. 

Pitt is top 5ish in sacks. Watt and Heyward are elite. Lesser talent is a bit of a stretch. Hargrave is pretty good too. Definitely better than our defensive Ts. 

 

I do agree our OL is not #1 like a lot think, but they are top 5-7ish. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Pitt is top 5ish in sacks. Watt and Heyward are elite. Lesser talent is a bit of a stretch. Hargrave is pretty good too. Definitely better than our defensive Ts. 

 

I do agree our OL is not #1 like a lot think, but they are top 5-7ish. 

That Dupree fella was given us fits all day too. The last 2 weeks we have played solid defenses. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

That Dupree fella was given us fits all day too. The last 2 weeks we have played solid defenses. 

with guys like Heyward and Watt crashing, the others find holes. It's not an easy task for even a very good OL. Glow is a weak spot though and not having Kelly was huge.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Myles said:

No one said he had a perfect game, but for a back up thrust into action on the spot, he did pretty good.   

Exactly when you consider he was without both starting WRs and really three of the top four WRs the bulk of the game and without the starting center I don’t think you can ask him to do more than he did.

 

if his name was chad Kelly and he did these things a lot of the same people complaining about Hoyer would be screaming for Kelly to take Jacoby’s job.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Rogers was #2 in WR yards last year, and had a better catch % than TY. He's not flashy, but he doesn't suck. There's a reason they kept him over re-signing Inman.

 

We're using Cain wrong. If you watched him in college, you know what his strengths are, and they are not in the short possession game like we are asking him to do. If we had a deep game at all, folks might see him different. 

Hoyer targeted  cain deep and he dropped it. Roger's hasn't  done much of anything  this year in the receiving game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Hoyer targeted  cain deep and he dropped it. Roger's hasn't  done much of anything  this year in the receiving game.

On a team that has Ebron and Funch, one drop isn't going to rule Cain out for me. Heck, TY has 3 or 4 drops himself.

 

As far as Rogers.... There are a lot of WRs and TEs not doing near as much as they did last year.... TY has the same # of catches, 30+% less yardage. Ebron's productivity is down 30+ % too. Pascal's productivity per game is the only WR to go up, and almost half of that is from Hoyer... Doyles production is even down per game from 2017... 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Pitt is top 5ish in sacks. Watt and Heyward are elite. Lesser talent is a bit of a stretch. Hargrave is pretty good too. Definitely better than our defensive Ts. 

 

I do agree our OL is not #1 like a lot think, but they are top 5-7ish. 

 

They may have taken a step back this year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

They may have taken a step back this year. 

 

Not really. We were without Kelly, our OL signal caller. Also playing against some elite DL play makers the last two weeks.

 

If there is a step back, it's likely because they are protecting JB 2.87 (bottom ten) TTT vs Luck last year 2.63 (top 10). JB was actually above 3.0 vs Denver IIRC.

 

Hoyer was a very good 2.5ish last week and it was more about not having Kelly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

On a team that has Ebron and Funch, one drop isn't going to rule Cain out for me. Heck, TY has 3 or 4 drops himself.

 

As far as Rogers.... There are a lot of WRs and TEs not doing near as much as they did last year.... TY has the same # of catches, 30+% less yardage. Ebron's productivity is down 30+ % too. Pascal's productivity per game is the only WR to go up, and almost half of that is from Hoyer... Doyles production is even down per game from 2017... 

 

 

I wonder why lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I wonder why lol

Anyone willing to look deeper can see the trends thus far. 

Doesn't mean they won't get better though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/4/2019 at 12:32 PM, Myles said:

No he is not.   He is just not a great starter.   Most back ups are not great starters.   He's a good back up QB though.  I'd take him over a few starters for other teams (Darnold, Dalton, Trubisky, Mariota and maybe Winston and Mayfield).

Earl Morrall made a career of being a great backup

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Earl Morrall made a career of being a great backup

Yes, but he looked like crap his rookie season.  

I don't know that Minshew can/will be a good starter in the NFL.  He did play very well and played better than several starters in the league.  With Foles injury history, the Jags seem to have a decent backup with potential.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Myles said:

Yes, but he looked like crap his rookie season.  

I don't know that Minshew can/will be a good starter in the NFL.  He did play very well and played better than several starters in the league.  With Foles injury history, the Jags seem to have a decent backup with potential.

It seems Minshew has a gimmick 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Anyone willing to look deeper can see the trends thus far. 

Doesn't mean they won't get better though.

I'm about done holding out hope he will improve the dude is in his 4th year has had some of the best coaching and has like a year and a half of starting experience. I'm basically at a he is what he is point now. however I sadly think he will be good enough to screw us out of a top pick for a QB in the draft so we are basically stuck with him and my fear of being stuck in the average zone is slowly becoming reality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I'm about done holding out hope he will improve the dude is in his 4th year has had some of the best coaching and has like a year and a half of starting experience. I'm basically at a he is what he is point now. however I sadly think he will be good enough to screw us out of a top pick for a QB in the draft so we are basically stuck with him and my fear of being stuck in the average zone is slowly becoming reality. 

My biggest fear is getting stuck in the average zone. I'm not quite to the point on giving up though. I wanted to see how he plays during the last 7 games.

 

After Miami, we have a critical 3 game stretch vs division foes which includes 2 must win home games vs TN and the Jags, plus a road game in Houston, whom we desperately need a tie breaker over. 

 

Then we have a three game stretch vs the NFCS vs two mediocre to decent teams and one good/great one. Then a division road game which will likely have huge playoff implications in the AFCS (assuming we do decent and at least go 2-3 in the first 3 game stretch).

 

If we sheet the bed and don't make the playoffs, I'll be done. If we squeak into the playoffs and get smacked around in the first round, I'll likely be done. Honestly I could see almost outcome from missing the playoffs, to making the AFC championship game. Those last 7 games will tell the tale, and firm up my opinion on JB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Thread of the Week

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    • To me the fact of the matter is the colts when 63 and 49 from the time they drafted luck until the time he retired.  Blame this or blame that but the Colts were paying him and that is what they got. I am guessing many teams with lesser quarterbacks had better runs from 2012-2018.  It's not apples to apples but I used to feel the same way about Bob Sanders.  Bob was great when he was playing at full speed but I also consider the amount of time he was not at full speed...... 
    • T/G Le’Raven Clark • DT Trevon Coley • WR T.Y. Hilton • QB Chad Kelly • CB Kenny Moore II • LB E.J. Speed • K Adam Vinatieri   https://www.colts.com/news/inactives-list-colts-tampa-bay-buccaneers-2019-week-14
    • Yes it plays a role.  And I also believe that JB will be the Colts starter next year.   On the flip side, there are a lot of things to look at to analyze a QB and his effectiveness.  And looking at some of those things is what makes me think JB is not going to be a long term answer at QB.    For example, all year no matter the receivers he has on the field he has hesitated to throw the ball even when a receiver is open.  Also, he has shown some lack of recognition in his presnap reads all season, that is completely independant of the weapons he has on the field.  Or changing the play at the LOS.  Now, I dn't know how often he changes the play but when it's obvious the play he changes to rarely becomes a positive play for the Colts.   I think he will be a starter for another year because I do not think the Colts will spend a 1st round pick on a QB nor trade for a starter.  I think they will draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round with the belief to let him sit for a year before moving to the starting lineup.
    • Lets go Colts get to 7-6 and keep your almost impossible hopes alive.
  • Members

×
×
  • Create New...