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Jacoby Brissett making history.

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I'm not cutting off anything. It's fact. Renewals dropped to 85% in 2017, and farther to 82% in 2018, and the Colts front office blamed both team performance and anthem protests. Since the Colts didn't have any anthem issues besides Cromartie (and nobody cared about him), I doubt anthem stuff had a lot to do with given all the other Colts-centric things going on.

 

There were also articles about retail and hospitality (food/hotel/etc.) revenue dropping, and the pressures on the FO to "do something"

 

And regardless how you feel personally, a large portion of the fanbase is very much accustomed to a QB driven offense due to our QBs the last two decades. You may not identify with that, but many do.

 

You know what was mind numbing? Watching paganos scheme in action. Watching his play calling was beyond ridiculous. Yet, many of us still watched every Sunday myself included no matter how torturous it was. Who cares if people stop being fans and stop watching because we dont have a sure lock at the HOF QB. 

 

Spoiled brats at their finest. 

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7 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 Every damn excuse? What is he "doing wrong" ? Seems to me no one can put a finger on if its play calling, the WRs, or JB. Or do you know more than literally everyone else on this forum? I find that hard to believe. 

 

I think you're just butt hurt that your favorite player Andrew Luck retired and you cant move on. 

How much do you know about his college career, and things he's consistently/historically struggled with? What is the reason an unquestioned WR like TY has a 30% drop in yards with the same average catches per game, and also is getting less than half the "big plays" he got last year (all while getting way more targets than anyone else). Have you seen the many all22 play by plays and screen shots? Also, the simple and advanced stats while not perfect, paint a pretty clear picture.

 

By the way, Luck was never my favorite.

6 minutes ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

You know what was mind numbing? Watching paganos scheme in action. Watching his play calling was beyond ridiculous. Yet, many of us still watched every Sunday myself included no matter how torturous it was. Who cares if people stop being fans and stop watching because we dont have a sure lock at the HOF QB. 

 

Spoiled brats at their finest. 

Do you have season tickets?

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3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

How much do you know about his college career, and things he's consistently/historically struggled with? What is the reason an unquestioned WR like TY has a 30% drop in yards with the same average catches per game, and also is getting less than half the "big plays" he got last year (all while getting way more targets than anyone else). Have you seen the many all22 play by plays and screen shots? Also, the simple and advanced stats while not perfect, paint a pretty clear picture.

 

By the way, Luck was never my favorite.

Do you have season tickets?

Bottom line,   JB is our qb.  Why fans try to discredit him is beyond me.     He is the best qb on the roster.    A better qb isn't coming out of the woodwork to take the job.     He is the man. 

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27 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Bottom line,   JB is our qb.  Why fans try to discredit him is beyond me.     He is the best qb on the roster.    A better qb isn't coming out of the woodwork to take the job.     He is the man. 

JB is my QB, and I cheer hard for him. I want him to improve and be the guy....

 

That said, I'm not afraid of talking about areas where he needs to improve, nor am I afraid to talk about what happens if he turns out not to be the guy..... That can happen without being a "hater" or "fair weather fan". Critical discussion happens everywhere in life.... 

 

What is particularly annoying to a lot of folks is blind faith, silly hot takes, and threads like "the WR problem" that offers no substantive dialog or fact to support a WR problem, and is simply a lazy attempt to deflect to a "narrative". 

 

All that said, right now our QB situation is a relevant and fair conversation. Saying he is "the man" does not magically make it so for a lot of posters. Many are not sold yet, and they are under no obligation to be sold. Some may be happy, some in a wait and see mode, some who won't be happy without top 10 guy and feel that only comes via the draft, and even some that want to see what Chad Kelly has at some point this season or next. You may not agree with any of that, but you're not going to change it. You're responsible for your own criteria and happiness.

 

That's about as polite as I can put it...

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I know, and we've had a few, especially in 2 minute drills.  We've seen Reich open things up when the time gets short and he wants to put up a few points before the end of the half. 

 

Brissett has pulled some very nice 2 minute drills so far this year.  Including a couple situations where he was more or less neutralized for most of the half (against the Chiefs I can recall one, and both halftime and the end of the game against the Broncos)

 

But it's not Reich's modus operandi, at least not based on what I've observed.  He'll go to chunk plays when he has a reason to but it's not his default strategy right now.

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1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Chargers he took  team down the field and left only a few seconds on the clock to tie the game and threw for that TD. Against Atlanta we finished with the ball on offense. Against TN he threw the go ahead TD.  Last week he had that great play. Don’t tell me he doesn’t have the clutch factor.

Brissett has made more than his share of clutch plays.   He's delivered in crunch time far more often than he hasn't, and we can attribute at least 2 of our wins to his ability to get things done at the most important moments (the 2 I'm thinking of are Week 3 against ATL and last week against DEN)

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1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

How much do you know about his college career, and things he's consistently/historically struggled with?

 

 

Brissett had a very successful career at NC state, including leading a series of comeback wins during a major playoff run.  He had issues with accuracy, by which means he was merely above average and not great with his accuracy, and he survived mostly by using his feet, and his eyes, and his wits, all of which were faster than his hands.

 

He had happy feet in college and was known to abandon the pocket early.  the Patriots did a lot of work with him to help him be more comfortable in the pocket and working on his accuracy in middle distance throws, which wasn't a major asset going into the draft.  He also used to be extremely slow on reads in the pocket, he's been working on that since he was drafted and as mediocre as he is now in this area, it's an improvement over where he was.  That was considered his biggest weakness when drafted

 

Over the years since he was drafted, Brissett has made major efforts to improve his pocket presence, middle yard accuracy and the speed of his decision making.  These have born some fruit, but fixing bad habits at the highest possible level of play is always going to be troublesome and it may take years before he's up to speed in these areas.

 

As for his throwing arm, Brissett has a very good one but accuracy was spotty out of college.  He's made a lot of progress at reading and making good tight throws but it's not an area where he's a natural and he doesn't always look comfortable doing it. 

 

On deep balls he tends to throw to an area and let the receiver go get it, rather than try to throw 20+ yard dimes.  Most of his long bombs in 2017 were throws where he targeted a spot in the zone where someone on his team, usually TY, was the guy most likely to get it.  He's got all the strength he needs but that style of throwing is going to lead to picks, which is probably why Reich isn't letting him do it.

 

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

What is the reason an unquestioned WR like TY has a 30% drop in yards with the same average catches per game, and also is getting less than half the "big plays" he got last year (all while getting way more targets than anyone else).

 

Because Andrew Luck was at the peak of his career and was better at deep ball throwing than Brissett, who is not at the peak of his career

 

Also TY actually being healthy last year is a factor compared to this year dealing with quad injury since week 3.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

I know, and we've had a few, especially in 2 minute drills.  We've seen Reich open things up when the time gets short and he wants to put up a few points before the end of the half. 

 

Brissett has pulled some very nice 2 minute drills so far this year.  Including a couple situations where he was more or less neutralized for most of the half (against the Chiefs I can recall one, and both halftime and the end of the game against the Broncos)

 

But it's not Reich's modus operandi, at least not based on what I've observed.  He'll go to chunk plays when he has a reason to but it's not his default strategy right now.

i like his method it wins games

 

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1 hour ago, NannyMcafee said:

 Every damn excuse? What is he "doing wrong" ? Seems to me no one can put a finger on if its play calling, the WRs, or JB. Or do you know more than literally everyone else on this forum? I find that hard to believe. 

 

I think you're just butt hurt that your favorite player Andrew Luck retired and you cant move on. 

lol whatever you say buddy haha

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

JB is my QB, and I cheer hard for him. I want him to improve and be the guy....

 

That said, I'm not afraid of talking about areas where he needs to improve, nor am I afraid to talk about what happens if he turns out not to be the guy..... That can happen without being a "hater" or "fair weather fan". Critical discussion happens everywhere in life.... 

 

What is particularly annoying to a lot of folks is blind faith, silly hot takes, and threads like "the WR problem" that offers no substantive dialog or fact to support a WR problem, and is simply a lazy attempt to deflect to a "narrative". 

 

All that said, right now our QB situation is a relevant and fair conversation. Saying he is "the man" does not magically make it so for a lot of posters. Many are not sold yet, and they are under no obligation to be sold. Some may be happy, some in a wait and see mode, some who won't be happy without top 10 guy and feel that only comes via the draft, and even some that want to see what Chad Kelly has at some point this season or next. You may not agree with any of that, but you're not going to change it. You're responsible for your own criteria and happiness.

 

That's about as polite as I can put it...

 Chad Kelly isn't going to see a snap .  Stop hoping for that

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14 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

 

Brissett had a very successful career at NC state, including leading a series of comeback wins during a major playoff run.  He had issues with accuracy, by which means he was merely above average and not great with his accuracy, and he survived mostly by using his feet, and his eyes, and his wits, all of which were faster than his hands.

 

He had happy feet in college and was known to abandon the pocket early.  the Patriots did a lot of work with him to help him be more comfortable in the pocket and working on his accuracy in middle distance throws, which wasn't a major asset going into the draft.  He also used to be extremely slow on reads in the pocket, he's been working on that since he was drafted and as mediocre as he is now in this area, it's an improvement over where he was.  That was considered his biggest weakness when drafted

 

Over the years since he was drafted, Brissett has made major efforts to improve his pocket presence, middle yard accuracy and the speed of his decision making.  These have born some fruit, but fixing bad habits at the highest possible level of play is always going to be troublesome and it may take years before he's up to speed in these areas.

 

As for his throwing arm, Brissett has a very good one but accuracy was spotty out of college.  He's made a lot of progress at reading and making good tight throws but it's not an area where he's a natural and he doesn't always look comfortable doing it. 

 

On deep balls he tends to throw to an area and let the receiver go get it, rather than try to throw 20+ yard dimes.  Most of his long bombs in 2017 were throws where he targeted a spot in the zone where someone on his team, usually TY, was the guy most likely to get it.  He's got all the strength he needs but that style of throwing is going to lead to picks, which is probably why Reich isn't letting him do it.

 

Because Andrew Luck was at the peak of his career and was better at deep ball throwing than Brissett, who is not at the peak of his career

 

Also TY actually being healthy last year is a factor compared to this year dealing with quad injury since week 3.

Thanks for giving me a thoughtful answer, and your willingness to discuss in an objective fashion. Also, love that you are frank about a lot of the areas for improvement.

 

To me, his college career was pretty mediocre in a top heavy but overall pretty weak conference (they never finished above 3-5 in conference). He never surpassed the 3000 yard mark, had a mediocre completion %, and never beat a top 25 team.

 

I'll try to keep it crisp, but listing the 4 areas that most concern me, starting with the biggest concerns. 

 

1) Read progression - this is a cornerstone for me, and concerns me most. Generally it's a natural gift of field vision, processing through that information, and making a correct decision. I'm just not sure any QBs can improve in this area quickly, and frankly not an area you want to gamble and wait years if even possible. The time to throw metric is just really bad considering he's only going to the first read most of the time, and really doesn't get past the 2nd much. Way too many missed open seem, sideline, and downfield routes, and way too many forced plays to a well covered TY.  It almost negates the need to have quality WRs beyond WR1 and stunts the growth of guys beyond WR1 and TE1. I just don't see much improvement here since his college days.

 

2) Reading the D / Altering the Plan - another cornerstone. Part natural gift of vision and processing, part easier to learn skill (plain getting familiar with the looks). This area concerns me a little more because it leads me to believe he simply doesn't have good "vision" or struggles to process in general. If it were just getting used to looks, he would have gotten better quicker IMO. Even when he reads the D, he seems to struggle getting off the pre-snap plan and moving to the new plan. This was a big dig on him in college. He couldn't recognize simple DE blitzes and other tells, and even when he did, stayed with the same plan or panicked going to the blitz throw. We saw this a bit last week vs Denver. Gotta recognize that blitz and throw into it. A QB that can be effective attacking the blitz, won't get blitzed as much and can eat some teams alive.

 

3) Short and intermediate accuracy/timing - this is another area where normally we see more advanced skills at this stage. I know that some throws take chemistry and polished routes, but there are several throws that are pure visual and arm. We've seen some very bad throws like back shoulder routes (3-4 in one game, 2 to Cain, 1 to TY). I have no problem with those as maybe JB isn't use to the speed of the WR, maybe they just need to sync better. Bad crossing routes and quick bubble or pop passes are harder to be patient with. Hitting/leading a crossing WR is kind of 101 type of stuff. The WR shouldn't have to slow down or stop or jump, etc.. 

 

4) Deep balls - I'm fine with like you said, throwing it to a spot, until he gets better and can throw a dime. What I don't like however are passes (like the one to Cain) that were into double/triple coverage and short. I'd rather it be long to be honest. Cain fought back between 2 guys and luckily got a PI, but the pass itself was an INT in the making had their been a better/aware DB there. He's just not good at seeing things downfield, not accurate, and I think afraid to throw deep. I do however think this is an area that can improve with the speed of some of our receivers. JB just needs to improve a bit in timing, get used to the WR speed, trust, and make sure he doesn't throw it short. Those WRs are fast enough to run under stuff. 

 

I'd love your take on what you think is hard/easy to improve, and what your timeline for realistic patience should be for improvement. Believe me, I take no joy in thinking JB can't do it. I love the guy as a person and as a leader. I can't really think of a better "person" I'd love to see out there balling out if he can improve.

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1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

 Chad Kelly isn't going to see a snap .  Stop hoping for that

I don't really care about CK. But don't tell me what to hope for. You should stop telling people how to feel and what to think.... If you want to have blind faith in JB, more power to you. 

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5 hours ago, EastStreet said:

How much do you know about his college career, and things he's consistently/historically struggled with? What is the reason an unquestioned WR like TY has a 30% drop in yards with the same average catches per game, and also is getting less than half the "big plays" he got last year (all while getting way more targets than anyone else). Have you seen the many all22 play by plays and screen shots? Also, the simple and advanced stats while not perfect, paint a pretty clear picture.

 

By the way, Luck was never my favorite.

Do you have season tickets?

 

I dont have season tickets (your point?). I havent counted the screen shots of all22 plays, but I have seen several, and I never said Andrew was your favorite player. As for JBs entire career, I didnt follow him during college... I'm not sure that the picture that has been painted is clear. I see him improving in certain areas and others he still needs work on. I havent said once that he doesn't need to improve. I have however said, he has shown improvement over his career in the NFL. 

 

I dont have a problem with the fact that JB needs to improve. I have a problem with people not wanting to give him that chance. 

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3 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

lol whatever you say buddy haha

 

That was a short lived conversation. Thanks for the contribution. 

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6 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

it is tho when they use it as an excuse for every damn thing hes doing wrong lol

 

I read these forums every day and "they" of whom you speak of arent high in number. 

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7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I don't really care about CK. But don't tell me what to hope for. You should stop telling people how to feel and what to think.... If you want to have blind faith in JB, more power to you. 

Nothing blind about having faith in JB.  Right now all evidence points to an above average QB who's young enough to still get better.

 

One thing to note -- to be successful in the NFL a quarterback doesn't need to be all things to all people.  He just needs to find a style that plays to his strengths and covers his weaknesses.

 

A quarterback can have significant weaknesses and still be very successful in the NFL. 

 

Heck, probably your top example there would be Tom Brady, who was barely considered an NFL prospect in the draft but has worked his butt off.

 

It took 6 years of hard work and consistent playing time for TB to develop from what he was in the beginning to the elite QB we know and hate today.  At the beginning of that process he had a ton of flaws that the coach had to help protect him on.  But he found a style that worked for him and allowed him to keep his jo while he developed.  That's something Birissett can do, even if he never develops to quite that extent

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2 minutes ago, Imgrandojji said:

Nothing blind about having faith in JB.  Right now all evidence points to an above average QB who's young enough to still get better.

IMO having blind faith would be someone thinking Chad Kelly can come in and lead us to a SB, that is comical but JMO.

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34 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

IMO having blind faith would be someone thinking Chad Kelly can come in and lead us to a SB, that is comical but JMO.


You heretic! 

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22 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

I  completely disagree with Ws being used to assess a QB

 

On 11/1/2019 at 9:51 AM, SteelCityColt said:

Would you say it's fair to say that Brissett hasn't lost us games (by as you say throwing picks), but perhaps haven't also seen him put the team on his back

 

Hi SCC :)

 

Just reading these comments. It is interesting how polarized folks are when it comes to QBs. It is the same with almost all teams.

 

Regarding your comments above, if "wins" is not among the variables you consider when evaluating/assessing a QB, why would "putting the team on his back" be one? If the QB is "putting the team on his back", that assumes he is helping the team win. No?

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29 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Hi SCC :)

 

Just reading these comments. It is interesting how polarized folks are when it comes to QBs. It is the same with almost all teams.

 

Regarding your comments above, if "wins" is not among the variables you consider when evaluating/assessing a QB, why would "putting the team on his back" be one? If the QB is "putting the team on his back", that assumes he is helping the team win. No?

See to me wins is a part of measuring QB's because you need at least an above average to win games. If you have a bad QB that throws a lot of INT's or can't make big plays your team will simply suck.  The QB touches the ball on every down and is the most important position on the field. He has a lot to do whether you win or lose games no matter how times you run the ball.

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29 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

See to me wins is a part of measuring QB's because you need at least an above average to win games. If you have a bad QB that throws INT's or can't make big plays your team will simply suck. The QB touches the ball on every down and is the most important position on the field. He has a lot to do whether you win or lose games no matter how times you run the ball.

 

I mostly agree but how the rest of the team performs also has to be kept in mind. Fans (myself included) and members of the media use "QB wins" whenever it fits their narrative. I am not a big fan of Kirk Cousins and I use QB wins (lack thereof) to show how poor Cousins plays against good teams and in prime time. Those who are big fans of Cousins point out that those are team win/loss records. However when the team wins, those same fans attribute the wins to Cousins. For example, one guy always complains when fans attribute that poor W/L record against winning teams to Cousins, but then he says that Cousins has a good W/L record against Green Bay and the Eagles. 

 

(Btw, my opinion of Cousins may be changing. Let's see if he can continue to play well. I still want the Vikings to draft a QB. Some of the JB critics probably want the Colts to draft a QB too.) 

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10 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

I mostly agree but how the rest of the team performs also has to be kept in mind. Fans (myself included) and members of the media use "QB wins" whenever it fits their narrative. I am not a big fan of Kirk Cousins and I use QB wins (lack thereof) to show how poor Cousins plays against good teams and in prime time. Those who are big fans of Cousins point out that those are team win/loss records. However when the team wins, those same fans attribute the wins to Cousins. For example, one guy always complains when fans attribute that poor W/L record against winning teams to Cousins, but then he says that Cousins has a good W/L record against Green Bay and the Eagles. 

 

(Btw, my opinion of Cousins may be changing. Let's see if he can continue to play well. I still want to draft a QB. Some of the JB critics probably want the team to draft a QB too.) 

I agree but with a bad QB you are not going to win many games. No matter how great your defense plays or how effective your run game is, eventually the QB has to make a few crucial plays in order for his team to win. Like I said wins are only a part of measuring a QB, clearly not the only thing

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On 10/31/2019 at 3:07 PM, MPStack said:


It means we have multiple SB’s in the future and HOF QB in the works

I KNEW that you would come around on JB.......

 

I think he is a first ballot HOF

 

(And he is a worth a SECOND round pick!!!)  HA

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2 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I KNEW that you would come around on JB.......

 

I think he is a first ballot HOF

 

(And he is a worth a SECOND round pick!!!)  HA

 

That's funny.

 

Obviously Ballards' asking price will have gone way up because JB is our starter now.  But I wonder what another team would be willing to give up to trade for JB at this point.

 

The people saying he was worth a 2nd before probably think he's worth at least a 1st now.  And Ballard might agree, who knows.  :dunno:

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28 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I KNEW that you would come around on JB.......

 

I think he is a first ballot HOF

 

(And he is a worth a SECOND round pick!!!)  HA


confused mark wahlberg GIF

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29 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That's funny.

 

Obviously Ballards' asking price will have gone way up because JB is our starter now.  But I wonder what another team would be willing to give up to trade for JB at this point.

 

The people saying he was worth a 2nd before probably think he's worth at least a 1st now.  And Ballard might agree, who knows.  :dunno:

Not many players in Brissett's current situation get traded at all, so it's almost impossible to know.

 

The closest analogue I can think of is Matt Cassel to the Chiefs for 2 second round picks in 2009, but I honestly think Brissett is way better now than Cassel was then.

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2 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Hi SCC :)

 

Just reading these comments. It is interesting how polarized folks are when it comes to QBs. It is the same with almost all teams.

 

Regarding your comments above, if "wins" is not among the variables you consider when evaluating/assessing a QB, why would "putting the team on his back" be one? If the QB is "putting the team on his back", that assumes he is helping the team win. No?

 

Hey!

 

Yes and no, putting "the team on his back" is where you pull the win out of the bag against the odds and without much help from the other two units. It's not really a quantifiable thing just a feel. Prime example for me is Luck in the KC playoff game (the first one!). True he kinda put us in the hole in the first place, but then was insanely good in leading us back. I guess another term you could use is "signature game".

 

As I said in the original post, it was never leveled as a criticism, just the other side of the coin to the post I was responding too.

 

I don't think it's as polarised as people make out either. It's just the extremists are noisier. 

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21 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

It's just the extremists are noisier. 

 

I hope I don't seem like an extremist, but I tend to respond to posts that I think are extremely critical, so I probably come off as the other end of the extreme (sunshine and rainbows homer).  That's the whole reason I created an account and started posting in the first place years ago, because I saw some posts that were just ridiculous and felt the need to chime in.  I had spent years on the sideline up to that point just enjoying the football discussions that make this forum the best on the internet.

 

For the most part, I'm just silently nodding along with all the reasonable posts most people have on here.  I think I'm pretty level-headed and middle-of-the-road, opinion-wise (although I tend to lead toward being a homer haha).

 

As far as this topic, I think the TD:INT ratio is a great stat for JB to have on his resume (maybe the most important stat a QB can have on their resume), but it obviously doesn't paint the entire picture, and anyone watching the games should realize that.

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3 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I hope I don't seem like an extremist, 

 

Not in my opinion. Maybe the wrong choice of word for me to use. 

 

There's them that was want to talk football, and them that want to win the internet.

 

Just on the TD:INT Ratio... would you say Minshew/Bridgewater are better QBs?

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45 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not in my opinion. Maybe the wrong choice of word for me to use. 

 

There's them that was want to talk football, and them that want to win the internet.

 

Just on the TD:INT Ratio... would you say Minshew/Bridgewater are better QBs?

They are around  the same level

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2 hours ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

That's funny.

 

Obviously Ballards' asking price will have gone way up because JB is our starter now.  But I wonder what another team would be willing to give up to trade for JB at this point.

 

The people saying he was worth a 2nd before probably think he's worth at least a 1st now.  And Ballard might agree, who knows.  :dunno:

I think JB is worth......

 

TWO first round picks, and a candy bar

 

I think we will never know

 

Its not beyond the stretch of the imagination that JB will continue to improve and he may be our QB for the next 6-8 years

 

But.... in all seriousness...... he still has MUCH to prove.

 

We have been somewhat spoiled having the likes of Luck and Manning

 

We may be going with a top 15 QB, and a stronger, more complete team around him

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think JB is worth......

 

TWO first round picks, and a candy bar

 

I think we will never know

 

Its not beyond the stretch of the imagination that JB will continue to improve and he may be our QB for the next 6-8 years

 

But.... in all seriousness...... he still has MUCH to prove.

 

We have been somewhat spoiled having the likes of Luck and Manning

 

We may be going with a top 15 QB, and a stronger, more complete team around him

 

 

 

Going by how JB has played through the first 7 games I was going to say we may be able to get a 1st round pick for him now. There are a few GM's that probably would do that, that need a QB badly. A 1st round pick and a double whopper with cheese :funny:

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1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not in my opinion. Maybe the wrong choice of word for me to use. 

 

There's them that was want to talk football, and them that want to win the internet.

 

Just on the TD:INT Ratio... would you say Minshew/Bridgewater are better QBs?

 

1 hour ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Not in my opinion. Maybe the wrong choice of word for me to use. 

 

There's them that was want to talk football, and them that want to win the internet.

 

Just on the TD:INT Ratio... would you say Minshew/Bridgewater are better QBs?

No to Minshew, or at least not yet.  Minshew has beaten 0 teams over .500.

 

Bridgewater would be way better if he could have stayed healthy.  In his current state I'd say he's roughly parallel with Brissett.  He's gotten a lot of chances and finally made the most of one of them.  He's looking at some decent money in his next contract

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 All I can say is I like this young man .   He is smart and   He makes good decisions for his youth And he has a very strong arm.   Is he going to be a Peyton Manning no not at all but right now he’s not making stupid rookie mistakes and he is putting our team in a position to win games .   When luck wimped out and quit I was very upset and thought we were in trouble.   I don’t feel that way now at all .    I now think that we have a chance to win any game we play and as this kid learns more we as a team will be even better .    I love what our coaches are doing we usually have the highest possession of time over the teams that we play that helps our young defense.    I see us as a team of only getting better and who knows maybe Super Bowl bound in the next year or two.

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2 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

Just on the TD:INT Ratio... would you say Minshew/Bridgewater are better QBs?

 

Maybe better at some things.  I've only seen Minshew play once, so I can't really say.

 

I think JB has a better arm (strength-wise) than Bridgewater, but Bridgewater seems a little more "polished" as a passer.  They both probably have a better release than JB, but I think JB is safer with the ball.

 

You could probably lump them all in the same tier of QB for now.  I just don't really know.  haha

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4 hours ago, NFLfan said:

 

I mostly agree but how the rest of the team performs also has to be kept in mind. Fans (myself included) and members of the media use "QB wins" whenever it fits their narrative. I am not a big fan of Kirk Cousins and I use QB wins (lack thereof) to show how poor Cousins plays against good teams and in prime time. Those who are big fans of Cousins point out that those are team win/loss records. However when the team wins, those same fans attribute the wins to Cousins. For example, one guy always complains when fans attribute that poor W/L record against winning teams to Cousins, but then he says that Cousins has a good W/L record against Green Bay and the Eagles. 

 

(Btw, my opinion of Cousins may be changing. Let's see if he can continue to play well. I still want the Vikings to draft a QB. Some of the JB critics probably want the Colts to draft a QB too.) 

give us cousins I'd love to have him here lol

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14 hours ago, NannyMcafee said:

 

I dont have season tickets (your point?). I havent counted the screen shots of all22 plays, but I have seen several, and I never said Andrew was your favorite player. As for JBs entire career, I didnt follow him during college... I'm not sure that the picture that has been painted is clear. I see him improving in certain areas and others he still needs work on. I havent said once that he doesn't need to improve. I have however said, he has shown improvement over his career in the NFL. 

 

I dont have a problem with the fact that JB needs to improve. I have a problem with people not wanting to give him that chance. 

On the season ticket topic.... I doubt many fans stop "watching". The do stop buying season tickets and merchandise, and just watch at home. And when they stop going to games it impacts other businesses (hotels, restaurants, bars, retail, etc) be it simply by revenue, or perhaps jobs. I'm not dissing you for not having season tickets at all. I'm simply saying impacts to performance do impact the bottom line to both the team and the city, and you watching at home or not watching doesn't impact much (unless perhaps you're paying for an NFL cable package). Over the years I've spent a lot travelling back to games (both Colts and ND). Like most fans, I'm probably more eager to incur the cost and hassle of travel when we're good and confident in direction. 

 

On performance/improvement.. sure some folks are still butt hurt because of Luck. It was not only a big loss, but a sudden one. But not all people that aren't sold on JB are in the butt hurt category. There are a lot of categories out there. You say you've seen a lot of improvement. I have a bit of a different take based on his history (that I know pretty well), what I saw in 2017, and what I've seen so far this year. While there has been some improvement in some areas, he's still struggling with a lot of the same exact things (both basic and advanced) that he struggled with in college. While I think he can overcome some of those things, other things IMO are more "innate"  or natural skill sets that are much much harder to improve.

 

I do agree folks need to give him a chance, but that doesn't mean they can't discuss his performance from game to game, or be critical. But we all have our own timelines for said improvement to happen, and thresholds for that improvement. Personally I'm good with 12-16 games, and maybe more if there is sustained improvement in certain areas but not others this year.

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3 hours ago, luvdacolts67 said:

 All I can say is I like this young man .   He is smart and   He makes good decisions for his youth And he has a very strong arm. 

JB is hard not to like

 

He gives his best... he is a leader that the rest of the team seems to follow.

 

I never really got the sense that Luck was a leader of men.......  awesome athletic talent... but people dont usually follow the slightly goofy and nerdy

 

If JB can string a few games like KC together........ and make many more big plays like he needed to on the last game... when the game was on the line.... I think even the naysayers will come around

 

I enjoy busting on "The Stack" but I am very much still on the fence in regards to JB.

 

Need to see more.......

 

But...... leaning in on JB being the Man!

 

I HOPE he is the guy!

 

I expect him to improve as he plays more

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2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

On the season ticket topic.... I doubt many fans stop "watching". The do stop buying season tickets and merchandise, and just watch at home. And when they stop going to games it impacts other businesses (hotels, restaurants, bars, retail, etc) be it simply by revenue, or perhaps jobs. I'm not dissing you for not having season tickets at all. I'm simply saying impacts to performance do impact the bottom line to both the team and the city, and you watching at home or not watching doesn't impact much (unless perhaps you're paying for an NFL cable package). Over the years I've spent a lot travelling back to games (both Colts and ND). Like most fans, I'm probably more eager to incur the cost and hassle of travel when we're good and confident in direction. 

 

On performance/improvement.. sure some folks are still butt hurt because of Luck. It was not only a big loss, but a sudden one. But not all people that aren't sold on JB are in the butt hurt category. There are a lot of categories out there. You say you've seen a lot of improvement. I have a bit of a different take based on his history (that I know pretty well), what I saw in 2017, and what I've seen so far this year. While there has been some improvement in some areas, he's still struggling with a lot of the same exact things (both basic and advanced) that he struggled with in college. While I think he can overcome some of those things, other things IMO are more "innate"  or natural skill sets that are much much harder to improve.

 

I do agree folks need to give him a chance, but that doesn't mean they can't discuss his performance from game to game, or be critical. But we all have our own timelines for said improvement to happen, and thresholds for that improvement. Personally I'm good with 12-16 games, and maybe more if there is sustained improvement in certain areas but not others this year.

 

Thank you for the well thought out response. I usually support the team through memorabilia. I dont pay for a subscription because it isnt available in my area. I got to watch a few games through Hulu but that ended, and games were spotty. TV viewers is a large portion of the NFLs income. We have seen a lot of games where the stands seem empty, yet no blackouts. It is worth it even when not sold out. Not that it doesn't effect other businesses. 

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11 hours ago, Imgrandojji said:

Nothing blind about having faith in JB.  Right now all evidence points to an above average QB who's young enough to still get better.

 

One thing to note -- to be successful in the NFL a quarterback doesn't need to be all things to all people.  He just needs to find a style that plays to his strengths and covers his weaknesses.

 

A quarterback can have significant weaknesses and still be very successful in the NFL. 

 

Heck, probably your top example there would be Tom Brady, who was barely considered an NFL prospect in the draft but has worked his butt off.

 

It took 6 years of hard work and consistent playing time for TB to develop from what he was in the beginning to the elite QB we know and hate today.  At the beginning of that process he had a ton of flaws that the coach had to help protect him on.  But he found a style that worked for him and allowed him to keep his jo while he developed.  That's something Birissett can do, even if he never develops to quite that extent

"Faith" and "average" are a bit subjective. To me there's three types of faith to me. There's religious faith which this isn't. The other type of faith is something earned that's built over time based on predictable and reliable behavior. The third type is blind faith, which really to me is more "hope" based. To me at least, I'm in a wait and see mode. And I have hope, not faith that JB turns out to be the guy.

 

Average, below average, above average, also terms with a lot of grayness. If you are pure, anything above the mathematical average is above, and anything below, is below. I look at tiers for the most part which I think is fair (let me know if you don't like my teirs. With the NFL, I'm pretty simple. 1-5 great/elite, 6-12 good/above average, 13-20 average, 21-27 below average/bad, and 28-32 very bad.

 

If we look purely at all the standard metrics this year, most of JB's fall in the average to below average category. QBR he is 20th, the very bottom of average. If you're pure mathematical, he's below. Completion % he is average (my tier) or below (pure). YPG below average. YPA below average. Big plays below average. AGGN% below average. Time to throw, below average. TDs and INT above average. I love the two above average stats, but that's a lot of average and below average in the standard areas.

 

The Brady comparison is really not a good one in most ways. Different era and situation. Brady has always been very gifted in certain ways (more on that) and was not mediocre in college. Did you know he was drafted by MLB out of high school. He was also a pretty big time FB recruit with offers from a lot of big time schools. He ended his UM career with several records and was top 5 in TDs, completions, completion %, etc.. He also played at a big time school, in a big time conference, won a conference championship as well as a lot of big games and both bowl games. 

 

From a skill set perspective, he got dinged (NFL draft) for being "un-athletic" as well as for playing smash mouth FB in smash mouth conference. He would have looked very different had he gone to USC or Cal (like was thought). He was always very gifted in terms of processing information and reading Ds, was very accurate for that era, and especially in that program/conference. And sure he improved over time, but he wasn't some kind of slow starter. He led the NFL in TDs in his second year starting. He was also great with field vision and going through progressions going back to UM. In that same year (his second year starting), he threw TDs to 11 different people, and multiple TDs to 7. Anyway, outside of maybe the "underdog" tag, they don't share really any commonalities. 

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