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Well that was ugly


Timo1
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1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Plus out MLB takes bad angles on those type of runs

 

Sometimes Walker seems too aggressive  and just smashes up in there without seeing the ball carrier who just runs right by him. 

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The experiment of putting Rock on the other teams best WR almost cost us a game. They extended their plays because of Rock inexperience. The time of possession was lopsided. The Broncos were doing to us what we did to the Chiefs. I hope the coaches know what they are doing.  This game was definitely a teaching moment for Rock.  I like Rock but this was tough to watch.

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7 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

That's not an excuse to not bench a young player who is a clear determent to your team. We had other DBs who have been playing well.

 

I'm not saying cut the guy but his play today was a disaster and almost (in part) cost us the game.

 

OK....    we'll try this another way....

 

Here are the cornerbacks that had a chance to play today....

 

Active:   (4)

Moore

Ya-Sin

Tell

Taylor

 

Inactive:   (2)

Desir

Wilson

 

Once we made Desir and Wilson inactive,  the only way Taylor and/or Tell were going to be the #2 CB was if Rock got hurt.     Period.

 

Your position was Rock was terrible and he almost cost us the game.   I think the coaches position would be...    As bad as Rock was,  it likely would've been worse with either Tell or Taylor playing the 2nd corner.     Because as bad as it was out there,  it could've been worse.

 

We're committed to playing the kid.    And if he costs us a game,  then so be it

 

That's the difference between a fan's position and a coaches position.

 

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13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....    we'll try this another way....

 

Here are the cornerbacks that had a chance to play today....

 

Active:   (4)

Moore

Ya-Sin

Tell

Taylor

 

Inactive:   (2)

Desir

Wilson

 

Once we made Desir and Wilson inactive,  the only way Taylor and/or Tell were going to be the #2 CB was if Rock got hurt.     Period.

 

Your position was Rock was terrible and he almost cost us the game.   I think the coaches position would be...    As bad as Rock was,  it likely would've been worse with either Tell or Taylor playing the 2nd corner.     Because as bad as it was out there,  it could've been worse.

We're committed to playing the kid.    And if he costs us a game,  then so be it

 

That's the difference between a fan's position and a coaches position.

 

Hopefully Desir will be back next week. Today wasn't Rock's best day but people need to realize he is a rookie. 

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7 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

That's not an excuse to not bench a young player who is a clear determent to your team. We had other DBs who have been playing well.

 

I'm not saying cut the guy but his play today was a disaster and almost (in part) cost us the game.

Barry Krause disagreed with you and said he thought Frank sticking with Rock will help him build his confidence because he knows his coach is behind him and isn’t going to yank him for a mistake or two (I am not going to count the couple of extremely questionable ones because while called you hace to be smart enough to look at it and go that was just a bad call).  

 

He’s a rookie.  He has to play to learn and develop.  Also, with Desir being out it kinda forced their hand.  If it wasn’t Rock it was going to be two other really young guys who haven’t spent all week practicing the game plan.  

 

By the way part of the reason the ball stopped going Rock’s way was that he started playing better in the second half.  Also he started getting more help and wasn’t on an island as much.  

 

Still it was a hard day at the office.  Hopefully he learns from it and improves.  

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22 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....    we'll try this another way....

 

Here are the cornerbacks that had a chance to play today....

 

Active:   (4)

Moore

Ya-Sin

Tell

Taylor

 

Inactive:   (2)

Desir

Wilson

 

Once we made Desir and Wilson inactive,  the only way Taylor and/or Tell were going to be the #2 CB was if Rock got hurt.     Period.

 

Your position was Rock was terrible and he almost cost us the game.   I think the coaches position would be...    As bad as Rock was,  it likely would've been worse with either Tell or Taylor playing the 2nd corner.     Because as bad as it was out there,  it could've been worse.

 

We're committed to playing the kid.    And if he costs us a game,  then so be it

 

That's the difference between a fan's position and a coaches position.

 

I have to say I am so proud of this team so far. I had us 8-8 when Luck retired. JB is better than I thought. I can't believe we are 5-2. We still could fizzle but I see 10 wins at worse now. With Luck we may have went 13-3 this year and that isn't an exaggeration. 

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25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....    we'll try this another way....

 

Here are the cornerbacks that had a chance to play today....

 

Active:   (4)

Moore

Ya-Sin

Tell

Taylor

 

Inactive:   (2)

Desir

Wilson

 

Once we made Desir and Wilson inactive,  the only way Taylor and/or Tell were going to be the #2 CB was if Rock got hurt.     Period.

 

Your position was Rock was terrible and he almost cost us the game.   I think the coaches position would be...    As bad as Rock was,  it likely would've been worse with either Tell or Taylor playing the 2nd corner.     Because as bad as it was out there,  it could've been worse.

 

We're committed to playing the kid.    And if he costs us a game,  then so be it

 

That's the difference between a fan's position and a coaches position.

 

 

"We're committed to playing the kid. And if he costs us a game,  then so be it."

 

That's not a coaches position.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I have to say I am so proud of this team so far. I had us 8-8 when Luck retired. JB is better than I thought. I can't believe we are 5-2. We still could fizzle but I see 10 wins at worse now. With Luck we may have went 13-3 this year and that isn't an exaggeration. 

Here’s what I see:

 

@ Pitt L

Vs Miami W

vs Jags L

@ Houston W

Vs Titans W

@ Bucs W

@ NO L

Vs Panthers W

@ Jags W

 

That would be 11-5 and that might be enough for a bye this year in the AFC.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Barry Krause disagreed with you and said he thought Frank sticking with Rock will help him build his confidence because he knows his coach is behind him and isn’t going to yank him for a mistake or two (I am not going to count the couple of extremely questionable ones because while called you hace to be smart enough to look at it and go that was just a bad call).  

 

He’s a rookie.  He has to play to learn and develop.  Also, with Desir being out it kinda forced their hand.  If it wasn’t Rock it was going to be two other really young guys who haven’t spent all week practicing the game plan.  

 

By the way part of the reason the ball stopped going Rock’s way was that he started playing better in the second half.  Also he started getting more help and wasn’t on an island as much.  

 

Still it was a hard day at the office.  Hopefully he learns from it and improves.  

 

Risking a game over a supposed attempt at boosting his "confidence" is ridiculous. If he was an undrafted rookie, Quincy Wilson, etc. his * would have been yanked so fast.

 

Rock is a grown man. If you play that poorly, you get pulled and you learn from it.

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Just now, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Risking a game over a supposed attempt at boosting his "confidence" is ridiculous. If he was an undrafted rookie, Quincy Wilson, etc. his * would have been yanked so fast.

They have let Wilson play this year after he made mistakes so I disagree with that.

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Just now, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Risking a game over a supposed attempt at boosting his "confidence" is ridiculous. If he was an undrafted rookie, Quincy Wilson, etc. his * would have been yanked so fast.

Problem was they had no other choice with Wilson being a healthy scratch. If we trade him and only get a pick that will be a bad move. Kenny is best in the slot. If Desir gets hurt we have no other corner for the outside.

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1 minute ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Did Wilson continue to play every snap and shadow the only viable target on the field? Did Wilson make, I want to say, 5+ big penalties in a half?

Rock made four not five.  Not that big of a difference but no need to inflate it.  Also at least two of those were questionable at best.  

 

Wilson wasn’t the starter like Rock was today so that’s apples to oranges.  They did let Wilson keep playing the role he was playing in those games.  

 

As others have told you but you don’t want acknowledge there wasn’t a better option on the bench to bench him for.  

 

Also Rock improved in the second half yet no one wants to give him any credit for that.

 

Still it wasn’t a great day for him.  I expect him to watch the tape and take the things he learned and get better.  That’s life with rookies, especially rookie corners being asked to cover other teams number one WRs.

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1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

Rock made four not five.  Not that big of a difference but no need to inflate it.  Also at least two of those were questionable at best.  

 

Wilson wasn’t the starter like Rock was today so that’s apples to oranges.  They did let Wilson keep playing the role he was playing in those games.  

 

As others have told you but you don’t want acknowledge there wasn’t a better option on the bench to bench him for.  

 

Also Rock improved in the second half yet no one wants to give him any credit for that.

 

Still it wasn’t a great day for him.  I expect him to watch the tape and take the things he learned and get better.  That’s life with rookies, especially rookie corners being asked to cover other teams number one WRs.

 

So it's not the same at all.

 

I did acknowledge the depth. Give me Taylor. Give me Tell. Give me somebody who's head is in the game.

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Yesterday morning I stubbed my toe on the bathroom door. Later on I dropped the milk bottle top, it hit my foot and just disappeared from sight (how does that happen?). I over-cooked my dinner and finally, as Vinatieri was lining up that final FG, I took a swig of beer and dribbled it all down my front. 


Anyone can an have an off day. We won and I’m just fine. 

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3 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

So it's not the same at all.

 

I did acknowledge the depth. Give me Taylor. Give me Tell. Give me somebody who's head is in the game.

His head was in the game he made rookie mistakes.  One play he got caught by surprise by the WR turning around on him and went back through him to try to make a play.  Another he just didn’t get his head around.  Those are rookie mistakes that happen and the only way to learn is to have them happen.  What you think Tell or Taylor wouldn’t have done the samething?

 

As for my previous point.  Frank has shown he lets guys play through mistakes and learn from them.  That’s part of being a players coach like he is.  It’s also the attitude you have to have with young guys or no one will ever learn anything or build any confidence because they will always be in and out of the game and not know when they are going to be in the doghouse which will lead to more mistakes.

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2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

His head was in the game he made rookie mistakes.  One play he got caught by surprise by the WR turning around on him and went back through him to try to make a play.  Another he just didn’t get his head around.  Those are rookie mistakes that happen and the only way to learn is to have them happen.  What you think Tell or Taylor wouldn’t have done the samething?

 

As for my previous point.  Frank has shown he lets guys play through mistakes and learn from them.  That’s part of being a players coach like he is.  It’s also the attitude you have to have with young guys or no one will ever learn anything or build any confidence because they will always be in and out of the game and not know when they are going to be in the doghouse which will lead to more mistakes.

 

I agree with allowing players to play through mistakes. This, however, was extreme and nearly cost us the game.

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1 minute ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Woof. Clearly not the same. You done?

Oh but it’s a mistake that nearly cost them the game.  Clearly by your logic he must be pulled and replaced because no player can make a mistake and some unknown and unproven guy on the bench must better!  That’s pretty much what you have said this thread.  Not shocking it’s going over like a lead balloon.

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2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Oh but it’s a mistake that nearly cost them the game.  Clearly by your logic he must be pulled and replaced because no player can make a mistake and some unknown and unproven guy on the bench must better!  That’s pretty much what you have said this thread.  Not shocking it’s going over like a lead balloon.

 

1 mistake versus 4. Keep reaching with these stellar comparisons. Let's compare a Luck pick 6 or fumble. Yeah bench him. Same thing...

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9 minutes ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

1 mistake versus 4. Keep reaching with these stellar comparisons. Let's compare a Luck pick 6 or fumble. Yeah bench him. Same thing...

By your logic in this thread it would be, Peyton Manning once threw six pick in a game should they have benched him and gone to Sorgi?  

 

People have tried to explain this to you with football logic that you have to let rookies play and take the growing pains or they never develop and get better.  You don’t like that and are taking a hardline stance that if a player makes mistakes that nearly cost them the game they have to be benched. That’s ridiculous and sometimes you have to let them play so they can learn, especially if there is no legit other option on the bench.  

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1 hour ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

"We're committed to playing the kid. And if he costs us a game,  then so be it."

 

That's not a coaches position.


I think Frank and Flus have the authority to pull Rock if they want.

 

So, if you’re now saying you think this is all on Ballard,  I’d say you may be right.  But I wouldn’t bet on it.   I’d call it 50/50.

 

I like Tell and Taylor.  Glad we have them.   Maybe someday they’ll be ready for what you want.   Just not sure that day is/was today. 

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1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

By your logic in this thread it would be, Peyton Manning once threw six pick in a game should they have benched him and gone to Sorgi?  

 

People have tried to explain this to you with football logic that you have to let rookies play and take the growing pains or they never develop and get better.  You don’t like that and are taking a hardline stance that if a player makes mistakes that nearly cost them the game they have to be benched. That’s ridiculous and sometimes you have to let them play so they can learn, especially if there is no legit other option on the bench.  

 

Another terrible comparison... 

 

How the hell does All World Peyton Manning 8 years into his career compare to an unproven rookie?

 

If Rock Ya-Sin was Champ Bailey in his prime and his back up was D'juan Smith then the comparison you are trying to make would maybe make sense. However, Rock Ya-Sin is not and Rock's backups are not much worse (if at all) than he is.

 

I'm tired of the "they need to take their lumps!" talk. He can take his lumps in a game that is not on the line or he can step his play up. As for confidence, do your job and do it well. That builds confidence.

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4 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Another terrible comparison... 

 

How the hell does All World Peyton Manning 8 years into his career compare to an unproven rookie?

 

If Rock Ya-Sin was Champ Bailey in his prime and his back up was D'juan Smith then the comparison you are trying to make would maybe make sense. However, Rock Ya-Sin is not and Rock's backups are not much worse (if at all) than he is.

 

I'm tired of the "they need to take their lumps!" talk. He can take his lumps in a game that is not on the line or he can step his play up. As for confidence, do your job and do it well. That builds confidence.

I tend to agree with you.

Rock was getting killed out there.   If there was an available switch that could have been made, it would have been good to do it.   

 

Rock wasn't the only player who had a bad game.   It seems nearly every position, from coach to punter, had issues yesterday.   Still got the win.   I'll be happy to forget about the game I watched yesterday.

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4 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

Another terrible comparison... 

 

How the hell does All World Peyton Manning 8 years into his career compare to an unproven rookie?

 

If Rock Ya-Sin was Champ Bailey in his prime and his back up was D'juan Smith then the comparison you are trying to make would maybe make sense. However, Rock Ya-Sin is not and Rock's backups are not much worse (if at all) than he is.

 

I'm tired of the "they need to take their lumps!" talk. He can take his lumps in a game that is not on the line or he can step his play up. As for confidence, do your job and do it well. That builds confidence.

Nonsense. Benching a rookie does not build confidence. 

You are making too much of an issue with a rookie that is learning to play in the NFL. 

 

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2 minutes ago, lollygagger8 said:

Ugly is a good adjective, but there's plenty of blame to go around. It wasn't just Ya-Sin, AV, or JB. The coaches deserve plenty of the blame for the lack of adjustments and weak game plan. 

 

Man that game yesterday looked like a Pagano led team. 

Yes.   I feel the same way.   The team came out lethargic.   Many of the play calls were head-scratchers.   Nearly every position didn't play well.  I think the D front seven played OK because they were able to get pressure on Flacco most of the game.  I think that helped keep Sutton down a bit.  

The win is great and we will move on to the next game (@ the Steelers next week) and hope the team looks different.   

I hadn't heard if the Colts sustained any major injuries.

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I'm amused.  It seems that every thread that was started since 4 o'clock yesterday, regardless of the intended topic, has turned into a discussion (ok, fight) about Rock Ya-Sin.

 

So, I'm gonna do something a bit different.

 

There's a lot you can say about this game.  Whether it's the quality of Denver's defense, or the struggles of our vaunted offensive line to deal with them, or JB's difficulties with staring down receivers, Rock's learning curve, or the ineptitude of the officiating.

 

I think the game boiled down to two things:

 

We won the game when the officials awarded us a bogus personal foul that put us in field goal range.

 

Denver lost the game when they changed their play calling after Autry left the game, leaving us with so few DT's that they stopped throwing at Rock (which was working) and started running up the middle (which didn't).

 

As the OP said, ugly game.

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6 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Problem was they had no other choice with Wilson being a healthy scratch. If we trade him and only get a pick that will be a bad move. Kenny is best in the slot. If Desir gets hurt we have no other corner for the outside.

I agree that if we only trade him for a pick then it's a bad move.  I think we are more vulnerable at WR.  If TY gets hurt we have no proven WR until Funchess comes back.   If we trade him it should be for a player or part of a package to get another player to help us not another pick.  

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All y’all calling for Rock to have been benched need to understand - it was either Tell or Taylor to replace him. If they struggled too (spoiler alert, they would have), then you can’t just go back to Rock without creating a mindset in these young guys where 1 or 2 mistakes will cost them their jobs. Bad teams have cultures like that.

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20 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

That's not an excuse to not bench a young player who is a clear determent to your team. We had other DBs who have been playing well.

 

I'm not saying cut the guy but his play today was a disaster and almost (in part) cost us the game.

We should have benched Vinny if we are using the criteria of not playing well. He was the one who was to blame for a loss had we not won. He left 4 points, 4 routine points, that he was responsible for not making. I’m just saying if this is the criteria we are gonna use for a rookie cb messing up, just replace them with anyone else. Let Sanchez kick. 

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